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DEFINITELY agree. If you go down a player in Arenas, you're screwed. Thats why I play mirage when I'm with randoms so I can get it, but I really wish a "safe revive" character wasnt necessary.
Going back to arenas and who asked for it: I'd love a Valorant style game mode in apex. Apex's movement and TTK make it far more preferable to those games, and I'm so tired of BRs and its randomness and looting phase. So it would be the best of both worlds.
But the current implementation is...not very good. The best part about Valorant and CS is adapting to your opponents changing your strategies on the fly. Pretty much every round in apex plays the exactly the same because the optimal strategy BY FAR is to sit back and poke. Especially when the stupid-ass bow exists. Abilities that allow you to close the gap are either ultimates that you can't use every round, or abilities that a camping team can counteract with decent poking. As people have said, you generally can figure out who's going to win the match by the end of round 2.
I'm still maintaining removing all heals from the buy phase and putting shield regen in would help the game feel more strategic and play to Apex's strengths more while still allowing for poking to be a viable strategy. Just not the Go-to strategy.
The streamers I follow have actually praised the arenas mode quite a bit but they're not interested until it has ranked, otherwise it's just pub-stomping which is dull for them after an hour.
I was getting the same vibe, it feels tuned like a care package weapon but given how low impact a new weapon added there is it was put everywhere. It's hilarious compared to the other marksman class (including the now care package'd triple take). Charges faster than the 3030 and does more damage while never having to reload to boot.
Still trying to figure out good loudouts in Arenas, I am terrible iron sights on all weapons, so I'm going G7 since it comes with a 1x and it's cheap. Once the bow is available it's game on. You get a couple headshots in early and the other team is doomed. Not sure I'm a fan of the shields and heals in the bins during the matches, seems like too easy of a win for a team and there is little risk for going after the bins.
It should be a care package item. Why does it have its own ammo type?
I'm getting the No Servers Found message again. I guess there are a few kinks Respawn still needs to work out.
I keep getting it but still I get in. Don't quit, it'll pop 3-4 times and then you'll be in
same here. honestly this is all not a good luck after their devblog on the servers lol.
no word on it from their twitter account either.
I did this earlier today and it worked. But now I'm not getting in, tried over 10 times already.
Her whole characterization kind of rubs me the wrong way. Outside of a few banner art and like one unlockable quip that references sake, they really almost went out of their way avoid her Japanese nationality. And they've already used Japanese imagery for other Legends (like Wraith's Oni masks). Crypto spoke with an accent and will occasionally drop some Korean in his quips. Admittedly I have not been able to play a ton because of the server issues, but I haven't heard so much as an arigatou or sayonara. And I kind of get the lack of accent, with a Japanese accent having a history being mocked in racist caricatures being a tough river to tread. They really kind of just made her annoying?
Played like 10 games of BR and man my season couldn't have got off to a much worse start. Just game after game of getting killed on drop without getting a gun or getting ganged up on by a full three. Think my KD is like 0.14 for this season so far looool
Loving arenas however, although it's annoying that the BP depends so much on BR.
Loving arenas however, although it's annoying that the BP depends so much on BR.
If your into arenas then by all means I'm not trying to take that away from you. I think it's cool to have the option to have a highly deterministic competitive space but I do not enjoy them personally. As for whether people are playing, it's hard to say, I only have my own anecdotal impressions, but most of my friends are positive about how it's been designed even if they do not want to play it.
I think as far as this 3 vs 3 style, competitive non-respawnable round based mode goes, Respawn did a good job. At the same time, most of my friends do not want to play it because they find it repetitive, and they want fast and high-action. You get into a fight faster in the battle royale mode, oddly.
If you take the top 10 streams on Apex right now. One of them is playing arenas. Of the top 40, three are playing arenas. I think considering it was anticipated as this new way to play Apex, Respawn would have been expecting a lot more attention. The others are playing a pretty even mix of ranked and pubs in the regular battle royale mode.
I don't even know who stream i just ran into, but HOLYSHIT battlepass is at 102, WTF..I am at 9.
Could easily have just bought BP levels to 100 and then levelled up to 102 with gameplay. Don't sell yourself short!
Is everything working ok? I get home in about an hour and I want to unwind with a few matches.
Solo queuing with randoms in arenas has been an absolute nightmare for me lmfao even worse than in BR
Other than some delays logging in, everything has been fine for me. There was a note about 30 minutes of planned downtime tonight at 11:30 Pacific.
But why? waste of money, or EA sponsor? i didn't look at the streamer's name but did have 4k viewers..
Facts. I swear half my arena games have had me spending more time in the purchasing screen/waiting for the countdown than in actual fights. I just hate the start and stop flow to it.
I'm not saying the mode doesn't have its benefits - as another posted said earlier, I'm sure it's a great mode to get better at positioning and whatnot with without having to worry about being third partied. But as far as a fun balls-to-the-walls type mode, I haven't had that experience thus far. Definitely spending the majority of my time in BR still, despite being amped for this new mode since I first heard rumors about it months ago.
I think Respawn is likely gathering metrics from matches right now, I imagine their goal is to turn arenas into their Esports offering. BR as an Esport has issues.
True, but is it really the fairest type of fight if you dive straight into a hot drop and just pray for RNG to give you the purple shield/peacekeeper?
That's why (in theory) I prefer Arenas, because it has strategy AND fairness. (once again, in theory)
I don't consider poking a fun/compelling strategy, which is sad since it's the meta in the current implementation.
To those unsatisfied with current Arena implementation, what would you propose?
Would simply allowing a legend change between rounds be enough? Or is it bigger than that?
I don't follow CS or Valorant, so I don't get the comparisons. But I feel like Apex being different/unique isn't necessarily a bad thing...
Just won a ranked game with randoms. Feels good playing WE again.
Had a Valk on our team who relocated us 3 times. Such a cool and well-executed ult when the team plays together.
Would simply allowing a legend change between rounds be enough? Or is it bigger than that?
I don't follow CS or Valorant, so I don't get the comparisons. But I feel like Apex being different/unique isn't necessarily a bad thing...
Just won a ranked game with randoms. Feels good playing WE again.
Had a Valk on our team who relocated us 3 times. Such a cool and well-executed ult when the team plays together.
Arena would have been better if they copied Naughty Dog's Supply Raid from The Last of Us 1 rather than going full on Elimination mode.
Basically, have the maps set like they are now, symmetrical with crafting canisters and loot bins around the maps for resources. But they refresh on timers, and then instead of losing items round-to-round, the economy is fixed up front with legends and their abilities having a specific (adjustable by Respawn depending on meta shifts) cost to play as, then spending money/points on other loadout filling items + having weapons/stuff purchasable mid match. Like how the better guns in TLOU's multiplayer, like the shotty, were locked behind in match purchases, requiring players to both play well and move around the maps to get the good gear. Place some guns into the "can be put in loadouts, pre-match" category, and then others into the "mid-match purchase territory". Same thing regarding attachments/upgraded guns.
Do it like that, then make it so each team has a pool of shared lives, say 10, or 20, like how Supply Raid did it.
Then you have some of the tactical "economic" decision making on how you want to compose both your team and your individual loadouts, but you get a more consistently action-packed game where lives, healing, and knockdowns still matter. More action, less downtime/menu surfing/thought about round builds, while still being tactical and having to synergize with your squad for most effective play.
Basically, you'd have loadouts where you could run nothing but lesser guns, but that could allow you to run more ability charges or hold more grenades/heals. Or you could pour all your "loadout points" on a fully kitted, versatile gun like the R-301, but you'd be lacking in other avenues. Or, make it so you have a cheaper loadout gun, but you have a strong purchasable that's contingent on you hitting you in-game currency threshold to grab.
They could also copy that game's "Interrogation" game mode to force executions in order to progress, making the executions a bigger component of the game's action. Once a team gained so many "interrogations" (execution kills), then the other team's "flag" is revealed, which then has to be returned back to the other side's base/side of the map.
Really, this Arena mode has just got me thinking about The Last of Us's Factions and how I really hope Naughty Dog's follow up to it succeeds big time.
Basically, have the maps set like they are now, symmetrical with crafting canisters and loot bins around the maps for resources. But they refresh on timers, and then instead of losing items round-to-round, the economy is fixed up front with legends and their abilities having a specific (adjustable by Respawn depending on meta shifts) cost to play as, then spending money/points on other loadout filling items + having weapons/stuff purchasable mid match. Like how the better guns in TLOU's multiplayer, like the shotty, were locked behind in match purchases, requiring players to both play well and move around the maps to get the good gear. Place some guns into the "can be put in loadouts, pre-match" category, and then others into the "mid-match purchase territory". Same thing regarding attachments/upgraded guns.
Do it like that, then make it so each team has a pool of shared lives, say 10, or 20, like how Supply Raid did it.
Then you have some of the tactical "economic" decision making on how you want to compose both your team and your individual loadouts, but you get a more consistently action-packed game where lives, healing, and knockdowns still matter. More action, less downtime/menu surfing/thought about round builds, while still being tactical and having to synergize with your squad for most effective play.
Basically, you'd have loadouts where you could run nothing but lesser guns, but that could allow you to run more ability charges or hold more grenades/heals. Or you could pour all your "loadout points" on a fully kitted, versatile gun like the R-301, but you'd be lacking in other avenues. Or, make it so you have a cheaper loadout gun, but you have a strong purchasable that's contingent on you hitting you in-game currency threshold to grab.
They could also copy that game's "Interrogation" game mode to force executions in order to progress, making the executions a bigger component of the game's action. Once a team gained so many "interrogations" (execution kills), then the other team's "flag" is revealed, which then has to be returned back to the other side's base/side of the map.
Really, this Arena mode has just got me thinking about The Last of Us's Factions and how I really hope Naughty Dog's follow up to it succeeds big time.
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100%. Sad cuz I was so hyped for this since the first leak. And i know it's the devs job to hype it up, but they REALLY hyped it up. Maybe they'll implement some pretty drastic changes and "relaunch" it.
^I actually don't mind that idea. I always liked gamemodes with respawn pools.
I DO want a valorant style single life game mode, but they could just do the bomb-site game mode for that.
Then just have it cycle between the two game modes in ranked arenas when it comes out like Halo does with their Competitive Ranked Playlist.
I thought for sure that the drill from the old prowler quest line would be used as an Arena objective.
The biggest problem with arena for me so far is I'm sticking to very few weapons that seem like they fit the gameplay best and there are only ever 3 maps. And you just spawn from one of two sides. Even just adding more maps would add a lot of variety,
I really do like the constant action but it really is strange that they have 3 gigantic battle royale maps and there is only one PoI from them each week. Like, what?
I really do like the constant action but it really is strange that they have 3 gigantic battle royale maps and there is only one PoI from them each week. Like, what?
Yeah the maps leave a lot to be desired....they could've easily launched with two BR-based maps and two original maps. It's not like there's a shortage of BR POIs that would work well in an Arenas setting. (Lots in Olympus)
My biggest problem with the maps is that there's a clear power position on each side of the circle (as it's usually semi-symmetrical) and very few flanking options especially when the circle starts closing and wrapping wide becomes less possible.
When I first saw the phase runner, I was hoping that would be a really cool high-risk-high-reward flanking option, but it's clear it's just a gimmick.
My biggest problem with the maps is that there's a clear power position on each side of the circle (as it's usually semi-symmetrical) and very few flanking options especially when the circle starts closing and wrapping wide becomes less possible.
When I first saw the phase runner, I was hoping that would be a really cool high-risk-high-reward flanking option, but it's clear it's just a gimmick.
Especially since it's like... you start the match, and you're either going to be on the phase-runner side or the other side, and 5 seconds into the match, the decision making is pretty much over. It doesn't really move beyond that.
The fairest type of fight is never the most fun.
An empty arena with P2020's is perhaps the fairest fight you could have in the game. Whether a scenario is fair, doesn't tell you a lot about whether a scenario is enjoyable, or engaging.
In any case, for me whether it's fair, or not doesn't really factor into the reasons I dislike arenas as is. I dislike the downtime in arenas. I dislike the stop and start gameplay, and I dislike the repetition of playing the same angles over and over again. I feel that you could have a perfectly 'fair' gametype while also having something that's much more fast-paced, such as a mode with respawns.
Take Rogue company for instance. Rogue company has two game modes. One is a respawn based elimination mode, it's tense, you get 1 life per round and therefore their can be a lot of downtime. Similar to battle royale games, if you die you can end up sat watching your team for a few minutes before they pick you up, or until the round ends. However, recognising that that experience isn't for everyone, or isn't what people want all of the time, the alternative mode is a mode called Strikeout. It shares the same maps as elimination, but you have different objectives and you're able to respawn into the arena persistently.
It's not somehow less fair because players are able to respawn, and the respawns keep players in the action longer. In Apex, we had a similar mode with the Winter Express event. Didn't everyone enjoy that? Admittedly Winter Express had some odd kinks with the fact that it featured 3 teams, and a constantly moving train, but the action was there in Winter express, you could get back to back fights in scenarios that you couldn't see in the regular battle royale.
As it is right now, the fights in arenas feel as though they are just the final fight that you get in battle royale. When there's one team left, and it's just you versus them, it's not that different to what it is in arenas. At that stage, in the final circles everyone usually has the same shield category anyway, and their weapons of preference. So for me, it doesn't really feel like arenas are offering anything that I'm not getting out of the battle royale mode. That's why I wanted something different, more fast paced and altogether less stressful to be honest.
A side issue with arenas, is the repetition that sits in really quickly. The problem with how arenas are designed versus how other elimination style game modes are designed, is that the arenas have entirely open sightlines. Take artillery as an example, you can get on top of one of the buildings and see the vast majority of the viable playable space at any one time. This creates scenarios where players are naturally drawn to, and play the exact same angles every time, because there are angles which are objectively the best and most obvious to play each time.
This doesn't happen so much in other elimination style games, because they have much more closed sightlines. So there are many more opportunities to flank, and use alternative strategies. In Apex, it feels like any sort of flank is a huge risk because of the open sightlines (so you'll almost always be seen), long time to kill (reducing the impact of flanks), and fact that one of the easiest ways to get a pick, is to just turn and stack a single player (increasing the risk of a flank). The way the maps are designed in Apex Legends, with persistently clear sightlines, is done because this is a battle royale, and the maps need to be readable. It needs to be obvious where players are located across a large space, you don't want to have large obstructions in every POI because they harm the flow of the game. But in an arena 3 vs 3, I'd argue that more obstructions and more interesting map designs would make for much more interesting and varied gameplay, Respawn didn't take this into consideration when designing the new maps, so they become very stale very quickly with the same sightlines being played each time dependant on the ring close position.
Another issue with arenas that you don't have in other elimation style games, is the way that the time to kill makes it so that 1 vs 3s, or even 1 vs 2s, don't often feel achievable. In games like Rainbow Six Siege, Valorant or Counterstike, the elimination system is a ruleset that works because matches don't swing on a single pick. Why is this? Because the time to kill is low, so even if you end up down a team mate, or four, you still have outplay potential. In arenas that only feels possible if you vastly outweigh the ability level of the opposing team, with most round outcomes being predicted after the first knock, and all but confirmed on a second. It goes back to that entirely deterministic style of gameplay that I was talking about disliking. I like my games to be skill based, Valorant is skill based and entirely fair too, but at the same time, the skill ceiling in terms of how it impacts match outcomes, is wider in a game like Apex Legends. A bad player in Valorant will usually lose to a good player, but there's some theoretical potential for them to come out on top, even if it's infrequent.
In Apex, there are too many scenarios where the writing is on the wall, before the match has concluded. Sometimes before the match has even started. When I'm fighting a pred or master team, unless I'm playing with an especially good group of friends, it usually feels like I'm the only one able to keep up in terms of damage. Before the match even begins, it feels as the match outcome is not just predictable, but set in stone because of how Apex is designed. For me that isn't very exciting, and you already get enough of that with battle royale.
Again, none of this is necessarily terrible, but I don't find it very interesting. For me it doesn't fill a gap in what Apex Legends already offered. I already have that gameplay in end-game fights in either ranked, or unranked. What Apex doesn't have is a mode where people can play in a more relaxed style, where people can play with their team and it not matter what quality your team mates are. Where I can practice my aim and movement and just have fun with the game and its systems without worrying about whether my team mate losing too much HP on a damage exchange is going to cause us to snowball into a defeat.
Sorry for the essay.
Yup. I hope Respawn reads Jo's post.
Arenas needs TDM or some kind of objective based Respawnable mode like an Overwatch escort mode. They could do a Push mode where a team has to get a robot (titan maybe?) across a finish line. Anything would be better than elimination. The only elimination mode I've ever enjoyed is Rainbow 6 Siege and I really need to be in the right mood to jump into that kind of intense gameplay.
Arenas needs TDM or some kind of objective based Respawnable mode like an Overwatch escort mode. They could do a Push mode where a team has to get a robot (titan maybe?) across a finish line. Anything would be better than elimination. The only elimination mode I've ever enjoyed is Rainbow 6 Siege and I really need to be in the right mood to jump into that kind of intense gameplay.