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Qurupeke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,275
Axiom Verge 2 launched the other day on PS4, Nintendo Switch and Epic store, and at least as I'm writing this, featuring a launch discount on every store except PlayStation's. And this is nothing new, we've been aware that the procedures for a lot of simple actions, like a launch discount, are needlessly complicated. I think most people here will likely remember some relatively recent tweets from a person that was pretty frustrated with Platform X, but even before that, the issue was highlighted by the Obra Dinn dev. And as far as I remember, both of those situations gathered the support of multiple other devs, and while some were satisfied with the performance of their games on PS, it's a fact that this is not the case for everyone and it especially hurts the smaller games. Actually, at the time I'm writing this, I'm looking at the web front page of the aforementioned stores and Axiom Verge 2 is featured predominantly in Nintendo's and Epic's and I can't see it anywhere in PlayStation's. It's on the second page of new releases instead.

And even outside of this game, I was following two small Japanese games that launched the previous month, Ender Lilies and Fuga: Melodies of Steel, both of which, for whatever reason, had trouble launching in Europe, with the first one taking days to come to certain regions and the second one still missing. While I don't think the fault lies entirely on PlayStation, as multiple other devs manage to launch their games without that kind of issues, I think it goes without saying that the platform holder should be able to support this kind of situations and guarantee that games can launch everywhere without an issue. I'm only speculating of course but it seemed that both devs encountered issues with the procedure and the different regions. And on a smaller note, Ender Lilies, which is a fantastic Metroidvania, launched 5€ more expensive in EU PS Store, compared to other regions or other stores, I can only speculate again on that decision, but considering that the game is completely missing any kind of promotion, maybe there's a reason behind that.

I opened this thread not for the news per se but because I'm also frustrated with this situation as a consumer, I'm someone that prefers to play on PlayStation and I like finding out cool indies, but I'm reminded again and again that maybe PlayStation as a platform, which thrived thanks to the indies at the early PS4 generation, is becoming indifferent, if not hostile, towards a lot of the smaller ones. I think there are undoubtedly some games that are well promoted, in social media, in States of Play and in the store itself, though it seems it's only the titles that have some sort of a marketing deal, Tribes of Midgard comes to mind as a recent title, which was and is everywhere, and did quite well based on the download charts. Everything that doesn't have a specific deal doesn't even seem to get even a twitter post and is lucky if it gets mentioned anywhere. I'm following yosp on twitter and he does a far better job highlighting some of the smaller indie games than the entirety of Sony. And I can't stress enough that this isn't the case with Nintendo or Epic or Steam, a lot of those games are getting promoting nicely there on launch or during sales. And again, you read stuff like that report from 2019 slowly becoming a reality.



In general, I just hope that Sony is aware of the situation and the frustration a lot of the smaller devs have, and it's something that they actually plan to address eventually, though I'm losing hope considering that this only seems to get worse and is going on for years. The focus on AA/AAA isn't bad per se, but you'd expect that a market leader as themselves could continue to expand on that kind of experiences and manage to adequately promote smaller games that come to their platform. And especially when those games are really good, gathering a lot of praise from press and fans despite being niche, you'd assume that even without any promotion before launch, they'd get some recognition post launch. And to go back to Axiom Verge 2, I'm curious to see how the game is going to fare, it's a shame because the PS version might as well be the best version of it.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,032
UK
Yeah this is just something that means I'm less likely to get games on their platform. I've also seen indies that are a few years old discounted on Switch often whereas the PS4 version remains full price

So it's not even like you can wait for a sale on PS4, as often PS4 games just stop going on sale after a while, whereas the same games on other platforms do drop in price

I was keeping an eye on Ender Lilies and actually had no idea it was out on PS4 until your post
 

Deleted member 63122

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 16, 2020
9,071
We have had threads of Indie devs saying it is way easier to set a discount on Switch than on PS store.
 

Dandte

Member
Oct 26, 2017
260
AV will be the September 2021 featured PSN+ game with a simultaneous stand alone release of the PS5 version.

Does this post make me an insider?
 

Rumenapp

Forza Photographer
Member
Nov 9, 2017
12,793
It does in EU despite not being signaled.

It's €17.99 instead of €19.99.
 
Oct 27, 2017
20,764
It's not an indie pub but plz remember ZAMN is still missing from PSN. Publisher just says it's "coming soon" but that was after 2 weeks of the game launching on everything and was supposed to be PS4 too.

were what, almost two months later, no sign of it and it might be the publisher's fault, idk, but no one has said anything about why it suddenly didn't ship on time when all other versions did. I suspect it's something to do with PSN but since no one is talking about it we have little to no details
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,364
On the UK PSN store its £14.99 with no mention of a discount.

On the eShop and on EGS it's £16.19 at full price with a 10% launch discount, bringing it down to £14.57.

So I dunno ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

NewDust

Visited by Knack
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,596
Games currently on the store with launch (albeit through PS+)/pre-order discounts:

Night Book (just ended)
Fracked
I Expect You To Die 2
F.I.S.T.: Forged In Shadow Torch
Lemnis Gate
The Medium

FORECLOSED
Synth Riders
Action Arcade Wrestling
Alphadia Genesis 2
Dodgeball Academia
HORROR TALES: The Wine
Yonder: The Cloud Catcher Chronicles


Most of these being indies or from smaller publishers. Clearly it is not impossible.
 
OP
OP
Qurupeke

Qurupeke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,275

Yeah, I'm aware, but as I said it all comes to how easy the tools and launching a game on PS Store is. It feels like madness to me that the dev has to rely entirely on Sony for something that simple, or that launch discounts are only for PS+ members in a lot of other games, like Disco Elysium for example. It's not like Nintendo or Epic or Steam have necessarily more manpower these days.
 

Edge

A King's Landing
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,012
Celle, Germany
All this text cause you can't save 1-2 bucks, lol.

I paid more yesterday for f'n Garden Story, Axiom Verge is surprisingly cheap, no matter with or without launch discount.
 

pixeldreams

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,036
All this text cause you can't save 1-2 bucks, lol.

I paid more yesterday for f'n Garden Story, Axiom Verge is surprisingly cheap, no matter with or without launch discount.

skip a day of coffee
found your discount
It's not about the amount of money saved, it's the fact that Sony makes devs/pubs jump through so many hoops just to have a launch discount on a game or put one of their games on sale.

The creator mentioned they didn't give Sony enough "lead time" to have a launch discount, seriously how much time do you need to set a game's price lower for a week? It's ridiculous how Sony can showcase all these indie games and spotlight them, but in the same breath do fuck all to promote them once they actually release.
 
OP
OP
Qurupeke

Qurupeke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,275
All this text cause you can't save 1-2 bucks, lol.

I paid more yesterday for f'n Garden Story, Axiom Verge is surprisingly cheap, no matter with or without launch discount.
I don't think the point I was trying to make is about it being 1-2 bucks more expensive and how terrible that is, the absence of that discount, for the reasons stated on the tweet that was linked, is just another of the many issues that pile up, I just found it being a good reason to make the thread and highlight some other recent issues I've noticed. I could probably do without all that unnecessary sarcasm though.
 

Edge

A King's Landing
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,012
Celle, Germany
It's not about the amount of money saved, it's the fact that Sony makes devs/pubs jump through so many hoops just to have a launch discount on a game or put one of their games on sale.

The creator mentioned they didn't give Sony enough "lead time" to have a launch discount, seriously how much time do you need to set a game's price lower for a week? It's ridiculous how Sony can showcase all these indie games and spotlight them, but in the same breath do fuck all to promote them once they actually release.

It is easier to setup launch discounts on Switch as on PlayStation, so what?? Things in different companies work differently, shocking. I'm sure there are plenty of other things Nintendo is putting spokes into devs wheels where PlayStation or Xbox isn't, it happens.

And yeah, the devs already admitted it was basically their fault for not doing it early enough, I don't understand your question tho of "how much time do they need". That sounds entitled to me. We don't even know what exactly that means. If they tried to do it 1 week before and it wasn't enough or 24 hours before release. We just don't know. So such a sentence is just weird.
They need how much they need and do it how it works best for them, if it works faster in other companies, fine, but why would I complain if it simply works differently here.
It's not impossible like Disco Elysium showed, so yeah, they already admitted, it's on them.
 

oni-link

tag reference no one gets
Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,032
UK
I don't think the point I was trying to make is about it being 1-2 bucks more expensive and how terrible that is, the absence of that discount, for the reasons stated on the tweet that was linked, is just another of the many issues that pile up, I just found it being a good reason to make the thread and highlight some other recent issues I've noticed. I could probably do without all that unnecessary sarcasm though.

Never underestimate peoples ability to turn anything into console warrior nonsense
 

Lelouch0612

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,200
That's pretty much it OP.

I dont think Sony is currently interested in making the PS ecosystem into something indies can organically thrive in.

They'll scoop up some great ones through partnerships/deals but that's pretty much the extent of their indie strategy.

It could change in a few years tho but as of now, it is what it is.
 

Dizastah

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,124

There you go. No need for pitchforks and torches. If there is a lead time to set up the discount that the devs knew about, then that's kinda on them.
Granted, we don't know much time is needed. I guess that's the key in this whole thing. Best we can infer is that Sony's system is archaic and in need of an update. Not that they are being malicious.
 
Last edited:

Lelouch0612

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,200
Why does setting up a discount even need a lead time?

I feel like these systems should be designed so that it's absolutely minimal effort on all sides.
Yes but it is now well document that they have an outdated backend system. Currently, you are assigned an Account Manager that deals with that kind of stuff for you. So when they are busy/unavailable, you end up in that kind of situation.
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
If its easier to setup discounts on like, EGS and Nintendo of all places, your backend / support system needs work.

Pretty sure EGS at this point is like 1 dude manually doing this shit lol.
 

Xwing

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 11, 2017
9,879
If its easier to setup discounts on like, EGS and Nintendo of all places, your backend / support system needs work.

Pretty sure EGS at this point is like 1 dude manually doing this shit lol.

Yeah, I think that's the point of this thread that people are missing.

Sony's store infrastructure is fucking terrible and this is just one small example of why.
 
OP
OP
Qurupeke

Qurupeke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,275
It is easier to setup launch discounts on Switch as on PlayStation, so what?? Things in different companies work differently, shocking. I'm sure there are plenty of other things Nintendo is putting spokes into devs wheels where PlayStation or Xbox isn't, it happens.

And yeah, the devs already admitted it was basically their fault for not doing it early enough, I don't understand your question tho of "how much time do they need". That sounds entitled to me. They need how much they need and do it how it works best for them, if it works faster in other companies, fine, but why would I complain if it simply works differently here.
It's not impossible like Disco Elysium showed, so yeah, they already admitted, it's on them.

Dunno why I'm supposed to accept that things are like that and that they can't get better. As others have said multiple times, it's a fact that stuff like discounts are easier to set in other stores, the fact that a situation like what the AV2 dev describes happens is a bit surreal, considering the size of PlayStation. They should be responsible for the smooth running of the store, and that includes the launching of games and discounts, both should be procedures that are easy to perform from both Sony's and the dev's side. I've cited various games that I followed and had issues, we can certainly find more examples, and this is the issue I'm trying to address with this thread, you don't need to be a CS engineer to see that something is wrong with certain aspects of how all those things are submitted. And this creates situations that only make it worse for smaller devs that may not necessarily being accustomed with how Sony operates.
 

White Glint

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,617
User Warned - Unneeded Hostility
Killing the PS3 & Vita stores was supposed to solve these issues, not make them worse.

If you're out here defending this you're a massively dumb wanker. Sony is literally too lazy to give you a discount and you're out there standing mouth agape asking for worse treatment.
 

Madjoki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,230
If setting up launch discount requires much more work than this, then someting has gone wrong.

4CsZ7n3.png
 

Teamocil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,133
Wild that the entire staff is on a wellness break and unable to accommodate anything.
Smart management would have staff out at different times so the ENTIRE team wouldn't be out at once and put everything on hold
 

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,753
Argentina
I was thinking yesterday on the reactions people had on the Indie World by Nintendo and the latest State of Play of Sony and it's not surprising that PlayStation cares more about big releases.

On the particular Ender Lillies, I have it wishlisted on PS5 because I want to pay a little less for it. Tried it Nintendo but the game literally doesn't exist on my local eshop, I have to buy it from NA Region so I rather wait for a discount on PS.
 

KalBalboa

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,938
Massachusetts
Games currently on the store with launch (albeit through PS+)/pre-order discounts:

Night Book (just ended)
Fracked
I Expect You To Die 2
F.I.S.T.: Forged In Shadow Torch
Lemnis Gate
The Medium

FORECLOSED
Synth Riders
Action Arcade Wrestling
Alphadia Genesis 2
Dodgeball Academia
HORROR TALES: The Wine
Yonder: The Cloud Catcher Chronicles


Most of these being indies or from smaller publishers. Clearly it is not impossible.

I wonder if the PS5 version of Axiom Verge 2 will have one.
 

Sirhc

Hasn't made a thread yet. Shame me.
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,053
I like how people are acting as if this proves OP's point wrong somehow. If anything, it does the opposite.

I am so confused by the "employees are on a wellness break so no one is there" thing...like this is not how businesses are run, there should be coverage not just a blackout of service. Not to mention that discounts seemingly need a long lead time... pricing updates should be a very simple thing to push through.
 

Bitterman

Banned
Nov 25, 2017
2,907
Yeah, I'm aware, but as I said it all comes to how easy the tools and launching a game on PS Store is. It feels like madness to me that the dev has to rely entirely on Sony for something that simple, or that launch discounts are only for PS+ members in a lot of other games, like Disco Elysium for example. It's not like Nintendo or Epic or Steam have necessarily more manpower these days.
I'd hate to imagine how arduous other backend tasks must be for the indie devs if something as simple as getting a launch discount is like this. Sucks for these small devs to go through outdated tools and procedures because of someone else's incompetence and indifference.
 

HOUSEJoseph

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,320
What has happened in my home between PlayStation and Switch can be described in no other way as a total domination of support on Switch, due to sales as well as it just making better sense to buy pretty much all indie games on the Switch over PS. My release schedule for PlayStation is suffering because since all Sony seems to care about are AAA titles and not scoring exclusive deals with Indie studios.
 

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,378
One of a few reasons why my PS4 is at the bottom of the list when it comes to buying Indies, both on day one and in general.
 

EntelechyFuff

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Nov 19, 2019
10,221
I think there's sort of...an admission or awareness in the OP that flew right under the radar.

The OP is upset about the lack of the discount because they prefer to play on PS. Even going as far to say:
it's a shame because the PS version might as well be the best version of it.

If that's how you feel about it OP, then isn't that improved experience worth 2 dollars to you?
 

Undrey

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,648
I keep forgetting not to get into these threads that critique anything Sony does because there'll always, always be people either defending it or pretending it's not a problem.
 

Jade1962

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,259
Isn't this more a matter of different stores and ecosystems working differently. Like the opposite is true of the eShop when it comes to bigger titles. They are sometimes more on the eShop versus PSN.
 

GattsuSama

Member
Mar 12, 2020
1,761
Very shitty attitudes from people on this thread.

Who cares if you bought another game for more money, the issue is with this one not having a discount or the same discount as in other consoles.

who cares if this discount is coming later, the point is why make it this hard when this is an issue that has been brought before.

I agree with you, shouldn't be this hard to make a discount for a game happen.
 

Tohsaka

Member
Nov 17, 2017
6,796
Why do they even need Sony to set up the discount for them? Publishers can change them whenever they want on the other storefronts.