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Dakhil

Member
Mar 26, 2019
4,459
Orange County, CA
www.cnbc.com

U.S. Chamber of Commerce blames weak jobs report on enhanced unemployment benefit, kicks off lobbying effort

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce blamed a $300-per-week federal jobless benefit for April's far-weaker-than-expected jobs report.
The largest business lobbying group in America on Friday blamed a $300-per-week federal jobless benefit for enticing Americans to stay at home and April's far-weaker-than-expected jobs report.

"The disappointing jobs report makes it clear that paying people not to work is dampening what should be a stronger jobs market," the U.S. Chamber of Commerce said in the hours after the Labor Department released its April 2021 employment report.

"One step policymakers should take now is ending the $300 weekly supplemental unemployment benefit," the lobbying group added. "Based on the Chamber's analysis, the $300 benefit results in approximately one in four recipients taking home more in unemployment than they earned working."

A Chamber spokesperson confirmed to CNBC that it will be using similar messaging to lobby the White House and Capitol Hill to end the payout.

The group's attack against the federal unemployment benefit came hours after the Labor Department reported that total nonfarm payroll employment rose by 266,000 last month, far below the 1 million expected by economists polled by Dow Jones.

The Biden administration has pushed back on arguments like the Chamber's. Appearing on CNBC on Friday, Labor Secretary Marty Walsh rejected arguments made by Republicans and business groups that the enhanced unemployment benefits are encouraging potential workers to stay home.

Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen also panned such critiques and told reporters Friday afternoon that she doesn't think the addition to unemployment benefits "is really the factor that is making a difference."

"When you look across states, or across sectors, or across workers, if it were really the extra benefits that were holding back hiring, you'd expect to see that either in states, or for workers in or sectors where the replacement rate due to [unemployment insurance] is very high — you'd expect to see lower job-finding rates," she said. "And, in fact, what you see is the exact opposite."

For much of the past year, millions of unemployed Americans have qualified for a special federal jobless benefit to help replace income lost as a result of layoffs during the Covid-19 pandemic.

The first such federal jobless benefit began under former President Donald Trump in March 2020, when he signed the Cares Act. That law provided unemployed Americans with a $600 weekly supplement, which in many cases was greater income than workers received while employed full time.

President Joe Biden's $1.9 trillion American Rescue Plan, signed into law in March, provides unemployment payments of $300 per week. Without any additional government intervention, that benefit will expire in early September.

Some economists and many Republicans have blamed the benefit for discouraging Americans from returning to the jobs they held prior to the pandemic.

South Carolina Gov. Henry McMaster, for example, earlier this week ordered the state's Department of Employment and Workforce to withdraw from the federal government's pandemic programs by the end of June.

"This labor shortage is being created in large part by the supplemental unemployment payments that the federal government provides claimants on top of their state unemployment benefits," McMaster said in a press release dated Thursday.

"What was intended to be a short-term financial assistance for the vulnerable and displaced during the height of the pandemic has turned into a dangerous federal entitlement, incentivizing and paying workers to stay at home rather than encouraging them to return to the workplace," he added.
 
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FatalT

Member
Feb 24, 2019
2,489
When you're earning more in Unemployment benefits than you would if you were working, that's a wage problem, not an Unemployment benefits problem.
 

nsilvias

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,702
"fuck fuck fuck, the poor got a taste of what's its like to not suffer working for shit pay. What do we do?"
 

SnakeXs

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,111
giphy.gif
 

Zombine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,231
Choosing to sit at home for $300 dollars is a problem with the jobs. Bosses are mad they actually have to work now.
 

GoldenEye 007

Roll Tide, Y'all!
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,833
Texas
This is already starting to be a bit debunked. The strongest growth was actually at the lowest wage levels such as retail/restaurants which would indicate that UI isn't the driver for this.

CNBC/Chamber of Commerce constantly peddle out bootstrap BS.
 

Yokijirou

Member
Oct 27, 2017
663
Yeah sorry but this is bullshit. I know alot of people who are not even getting any where NEAR their normal pay pre-pandemic. OH and guess what, their job that they had, doesn't exist anymore. On top of that, it took months to even receive unemployment or some so they're all trying to get back to even still.
 

Dekim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,300
Always need to keep the rubes barely getting by. Keep people afraid to lose their jobs to not be homeless.
 

KDC720

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,321
I've heard the "people are earning more on unemployment than actually working" line a lot from family and co-workers over the past year.

It always annoyed me because most jobs hiring are low wage service jobs with little to no benefits that put people at a COVID risk. Also if you are collecting unemployment I still doubt you have enough to lounge around and play Xbox all day, you're probably still struggling to make ends meet.

Just pay people more, pure and simple. The whole "don't want a low wage job? Don't have low wage skills" garbage is BS and always has been.
 

Haint

Banned
Oct 14, 2018
1,361
Choosing to sit at home for $300 dollars is a problem with the jobs. Bosses are mad they actually have to work now.

The problem is the combined payout is ~$600/week, completely untaxed, which is the equivalent take home of someone earning a $40-45K salary (Federal/State taxes, Social Security, Medicare, and Unemployment eat around 25% off a $40-45K salary). The amount unemployment pays out also qualifies them for the highest tier ACA Healthcare benefit, meaning they get a cost sharing plan (with a ridiculously low Copay and Out of Pocket Maximum) for around $1 - $20/month (far better than any job offers). You would have to be stupid to go back work if you're on unemployment, it'd take >$50K with full benefits to make it worth anyone's while. You might say "well they should pay that", but that would only lead to a shortage of skilled and manual intensive labor (who presently earn $40K-$50K), as they would all quit to earn the same wage at easier retail or service jobs. You might then say "well pay everyone more", but proportionally increasing all wages would obviously lead to wild inflation, ultimately giving $45K the same buying power as $25K today.
 
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Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
Fun fact, if my job laid me off during the pandemic I would've been making more money doing nothing. I'm glad I kept the job though, after that extra unemployment money they were giving out ran out, I would've had to find other work.
 

metalslimer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,558
Hmm maybe we should get out of a global pandemic still killing tens of thousands of people before whining people aren't clamoring to their shit wage job
 

steejee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,602
Chambers of Commerce are purely lobbying firms for owners. Everything they do is for their benefit, not for the general good of the economy or their employees. This is universally true of them, from the smallest to the largest.
 

AndyD

Mambo Number PS5
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,602
Nashville
I like Yelen's argument. Anyone have the data behind it?

"When you look across states, or across sectors, or across workers, if it were really the extra benefits that were holding back hiring, you'd expect to see that either in states, or for workers in or sectors where the replacement rate due to [unemployment insurance] is very high — you'd expect to see lower job-finding rates," she said. "And, in fact, what you see is the exact opposite."
 

kukubrew

Member
Nov 7, 2017
342
The problem is the combined payout is ~$600/week, completely untaxed, which is the equivalent take home of someone earning a $40-45K salary (Federal/State taxes, Social Security, Medicade, and Unemployment eat around 25% off a $40-45K salary). The amount unemplyment pays out also qualifies them for the highest tier ACA Healthcare benefit, meaning they get a cost sharing plan (with a ridiculously low Copay and Out of Pocket Maximum) for around $1 - $20/month (far better than any job offers).

But at $600 a week it comes out to 31,200 a year. You'll still owe taxes on it (i think there's an exemption on the first 11k of it right now?). Granted, that $600 is equivalent to $15 and hour for a 40 hour work week, but that will run out and hopefully it will push the minimum wage above 15 to restart everyone into the workforce.

I actually haven't searched for any press releases, but have any companies stated that if they went to 15 to 18 per hour minimum, what would their profit forecast be?
 

Haint

Banned
Oct 14, 2018
1,361
But at $600 a week it comes out to 31,200 a year. You'll still owe taxes on it (i think there's an exemption on the first 11k of it right now?). Granted, that $600 is equivalent to $15 and hour for a 40 hour work week, but that will run out and hopefully it will push the minimum wage above 15 to restart everyone into the workforce.

I actually haven't searched for any press releases, but have any companies stated that if they went to 15 to 18 per hour minimum, what would their profit forecast be?

As far as I know it's completely untaxed at the moment, if there is an $11K limit on tax exemption, certainly no one has hit it yet (and won't for a long while). I would also question whether that limit counts the $300 bonus, or just the base pay. As I mentioned, $31,200 untaxed is roughly equivalent to ~$43K taxed.
 

MazeHaze

Member
Nov 1, 2017
8,573
The problem is the combined payout is ~$600/week, completely untaxed, which is the equivalent take home of someone earning a $40-45K salary (Federal/State taxes, Social Security, Medicare, and Unemployment eat around 25% off a $40-45K salary). The amount unemployment pays out also qualifies them for the highest tier ACA Healthcare benefit, meaning they get a cost sharing plan (with a ridiculously low Copay and Out of Pocket Maximum) for around $1 - $20/month (far better than any job offers). You would have to be stupid to go back work if you're on unemployment, it'd take >$50K with full benefits to make it worth anyone's while. You might say "well they should pay that", but that would create a shortage of skilled and labor intensive labor (who presently earn $40K-$50K), as they would all quit to earn the same wage at easier retail or service jobs. Proportionally increasing all wages would just lead to wild inflation, ultimately giving $45K the same buying power as $25K today.
ah yeah, the old "we cant pay poor people more because inflation" argument lmao

Also I make 50k at a high skilled labor intensive job and I definitely wouldnt do retail or fastfood for the same pay, retail and fastfood are brutal and terrible, ive worked both and I much prefer labor
 

kukubrew

Member
Nov 7, 2017
342
As far as I know it's completely untaxed at the moment, if there is an $11K limit on tax exemption, certainly no one has hit it yet (and won't for a long while). I would also question whether that limit includes the $300 bonus, or just the base pay. As I mentioned, $31,200 untaxed is roughly equivalent to ~$43K taxed.
TREASURY - Notice: Treatment of Unemployment Compensation for Tax Year 2020 (michigan.gov)
Effect of the American Rescue Plan Act on the taxation of unemployment compensation. The federal American Rescue Plan Act was signed into law on March 11, 2021. The federal law provides a gross income exclusion of up to $10,200 per person for unemployment compensation reported on a 2020 federal income tax return for individuals under certain income thresholds.[5] This is a federal exclusion that reduced AGI at the federal level. Since the exclusion is taken during the calculation of AGI, no additional adjustment is necessary to receive the benefit of the exclusion on a Michigan income tax return.

I'm from Michigan FWIW. You can CHOOSE not to withhold any taxes on your UI check, but those taxes will come due.
 

LegendofJoe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,077
Arkansas, USA
The Chamber of Commerce is not especially impartial btw



AOC needs to cut out the hyperbole here, anyone that follows politics knows that the Chamber of Commerce is one of the big lobbying groups. There isn't anything "secret" about them and the interests they serve. They're actually pretty transparent about what they're all about, at least compared to the real dark money groups in DC.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,544
This seems like one of those things that really hurts democrats.

Predatory group say something that sounds right to the uneducated "Nobody wants to go to work because of unemployment!" meanwhile there's a twitter thread from an expert explaining the subtle and in depth details on why thats not actually true, but if you're explaining then you're losing.
 

ErichWK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,531
Sandy Eggo
AOC needs to cut out the hyperbole here, anyone that follows politics knows that the Chamber of Commerce is one of the big lobbying groups. There isn't anything "secret" about them and the interests they serve. They're actually pretty transparent about what they're all about, at least compared to the real dark money groups in DC.
I actually didn't know this and I follow politics.
 

Haint

Banned
Oct 14, 2018
1,361
TREASURY - Notice: Treatment of Unemployment Compensation for Tax Year 2020 (michigan.gov)
Effect of the American Rescue Plan Act on the taxation of unemployment compensation. The federal American Rescue Plan Act was signed into law on March 11, 2021. The federal law provides a gross income exclusion of up to $10,200 per person for unemployment compensation reported on a 2020 federal income tax return for individuals under certain income thresholds.[5] This is a federal exclusion that reduced AGI at the federal level. Since the exclusion is taken during the calculation of AGI, no additional adjustment is necessary to receive the benefit of the exclusion on a Michigan income tax return.

I'm from Michigan FWIW. You can CHOOSE not to withhold any taxes on your UI check, but those taxes will come due.

Any idea whether the $300 bonus is counted towards that tax exempt limit? Even once taxes kick in though, it's still far more than most retail and restaurant employees earn.

This seems like one of those things that really hurts democrats.

Predatory group say something that sounds right to the uneducated "Nobody wants to go to work because of unemployment!" meanwhile there's a twitter thread from an expert explaining the subtle and in depth details on why thats not actually true, but if you're explaining then you're losing.

Philosophical reassessment and "pandemic life crisis" are a contributor, but likely a very minor one compared to the reality of "I earn more not working."
 
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take_marsh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,250
AOC needs to cut out the hyperbole here, anyone that follows politics knows that the Chamber of Commerce is one of the big lobbying groups. There isn't anything "secret" about them and the interests they serve. They're actually pretty transparent about what they're all about, at least compared to the real dark money groups in DC.

The secretive part probably comes from the fact that the group doesn't disclose where their money comes from.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,591
AOC needs to cut out the hyperbole here, anyone that follows politics knows that the Chamber of Commerce is one of the big lobbying groups. There isn't anything "secret" about them and the interests they serve. They're actually pretty transparent about what they're all about, at least compared to the real dark money groups in DC.

I completely disagree. I follow politics pretty closely and this is my first time noticing this. I'm sure there are plenty of people who didn't know either. Not sure why you're so upset about her framing it this way.
 

thefit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,243
When you're earning more in Unemployment benefits than you would if you were working, that's a wage problem, not an Unemployment benefits problem.

This is becoming more obvious in red states with Theirr worst pay rates and safety nets than blue states. They are slowly coming to the realization that fuck your shit pay and why should I vote for a party that won't extend benefits of increase the minimum wage. Slowly but surely the gop is losing the messaging.
 

LegendofJoe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,077
Arkansas, USA
I actually didn't know this and I follow politics.

She's doing her followers a disservice to characterize the Chamber as a dark money group then. They're one of the most well known and established lobbying groups in the US. AOC should have characterized them as such and said they're a good example of how much more power capital wields in DC compared to labor.

I don't like the conspiratorial framing, there is already far too much of that going on.
 

bounchfx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,654
Muricas
personally i never really understood the 'if you pay people more they wont work!' line. im pretty sure there are a fuckload of rich people that still hold jobs. maybe people just don't want to be poor and oppressed and stressed constantly?

that being said - pay people more. if you can't earn enough as a business to pay a fair wage to people allowing them to live without multiple jobs, you simply don't belong to be in business. it's that simple. but it's more than clear where all the money is going, when you look at the trend of ceo pay over the last few decades. absolutely disgusting.
 

Remark

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,542
As far as I know it's completely untaxed at the moment, if there is an $11K limit on tax exemption, certainly no one has hit it yet (and won't for a long while). I would also question whether that limit counts the $300 bonus, or just the base pay. As I mentioned, $31,200 untaxed is roughly equivalent to ~$43K taxed.
As someone who was on unemployment it is not completely untaxed. You can choose for them to not take taxes currently but it'll be owed when it comes to file your taxes so your numbers are a little off. One of my friends owed a decent amount this year since they accidently choose to not have federal taxes be taken out on their unemployment.
 

SneakersSO

Banned
Oct 24, 2017
1,353
North America
The problem is the combined payout is ~$600/week, completely untaxed, which is the equivalent take home of someone earning a $40-45K salary (Federal/State taxes, Social Security, Medicare, and Unemployment eat around 25% off a $40-45K salary). The amount unemployment pays out also qualifies them for the highest tier ACA Healthcare benefit, meaning they get a cost sharing plan (with a ridiculously low Copay and Out of Pocket Maximum) for around $1 - $20/month (far better than any job offers). You would have to be stupid to go back work if you're on unemployment, it'd take >$50K with full benefits to make it worth anyone's while. You might say "well they should pay that", but that would only lead to a shortage of skilled and manual intensive labor (who presently earn $40K-$50K), as they would all quit to earn the same wage at easier retail or service jobs. You might then say "well pay everyone more", but proportionally increasing all wages would obviously lead to wild inflation, ultimately giving $45K the same buying power as $25K today.

The notion that paying people more would cause inflation is absolutely ludicrous given the data we have.

Not only that, but these people have been clamoring for a pay increase for forever. Also, saying these retail/service jobs are easier than higher-skill jobs is also naive as fuck - I work a high skill job and I used to work retail, and I can assure you retail/service work is far more intensive than anything I do as a high-skill worker making 5x what they make per year.
 

AndyD

Mambo Number PS5
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,602
Nashville
I actually haven't searched for any press releases, but have any companies stated that if they went to 15 to 18 per hour minimum, what would their profit forecast be?
Several businesses have done this analysis and for example Chipotle said going to $15 nationwide would cause their prices on dishes to go up 2-3%. So a $7 burrito would be $7.21 at most.
https://www.restaurantdive.com/news...-be-very-manageable-with-menu-price-h/598904/

Several other normal retail businesses already pay $15 or more to start in many areas and the prices have not changed. Target, Best Buy, Bath and Body Works near us all pay $14-16 starting wage already. Not to mention Amazon/UPS warehouse type jobs are closer to 18-19 to start.

Point is, it does not seem insurmountable for average businesses across a swath of industries. More than likely the businesses complaining the most pay so far below a living wage that it's predatory to begin with.

Not to mention that to qualify for maximum unemployment you had to have had a relatively high paying job before, so you are likely skilled and expect to return to similar work. Saying you prefer UI to an underemployment minimum wage job is not saying much if before UI you were earning far above minimum wage and those earnings qualified you for top UI to begin with.