Critical Role |OT| Is It Thursday Yet?

timedesk · May 21, 2021

I felt a bit down after the announcement that C2 was ending. We might be in the last two or three episodes now depending on how the final fight goes and how Matt wants to wrap things up. There are so many places we never went in Wildemount, and a fair number of subplots and enemies that could still be fought. For a bit Yesterday, I just though about how much of a bummer it was that Covid killed any chance for guests to come back for the finale, or how they wouldn't all be at the same table when things finally wrapped up. Today, I'm feeling a lot more positive. I think most of these plots will either be wrapped up in RP after the final battle with Luican, or will make the foundation of some really cool one shots or mini arcs. I'm actually really excited to see what CR does with the M9 after C2 has wrapped up.

Personally, I would love them to revisit the characters in a Undeadwood style mini series as opposed to separate one shots. C2 always felt like it was missing a time skip, a period for the characters to live with some of their big decisions and life changes. The pace of a D&D campaign is truly crazy, I think it has only been a little over a year in game time since the M9 first met each other. So having an Epilogue or series of late adventures set some time after the campaign ends would be great to me.

So even though the campaign is ending, it's not the end of the characters. There are many different ways these lingering plot threads could be resolved. It could be done in comics, or novels, one shots, or a mini series. It might not be how I initially envisioned or hoped it would be, but no way they are just dropping C2. Also the more open threads creates the opportunity for C3 to have more narrative connections to C2. Endings are almost always a little bittersweet, but I am pretty excited to see what comes next from CR. Sorry for the ramble.

LaytonWright said:
Sigh Matts had to turn off replies on twitter again. Brians alluded to some of the stuff that gets said.

This is why i backed away from the fandom, too many people trying to push and be entitled

That's lousy. I understand feeling a bit down because the campaign is ending, but harassing the people who make the show seems really extreme. Fandom in general need to learn how to handle negative emotions without lashing out. Be sad something you liked is ending, but that negative feeling is not a license to be a dick.

Anoregon said:
That was a deliberate choice because he is trying to show confidence that they are all going to survive.

This. Travis has specifically said Fjord is trying to be optimistic and is encouraging the group not to go in assuming they will fail. Leaving some unfinished business is how he is trying to motivate himself. He even thanks Beau for taking a similar stance. It's not that he has nothing to say, he is just trying to project confidence.

Smiley90 said:
This campaign was worth a try, but I think hopefully everyone including the players and Matt have learned that this group needs a bit more heavy handed guiding. And that's totally okay! Now they know, it was definitely worth trying it out.

This is pretty much how I feel. I have really enjoyed C2. I have liked the characters and encounters way more then I enjoyed C1. That said, this group often seemed a bit overwhelmed with the political stories, and overarching plots. There's nothing wrong with that, but hopefully Matt will keep that in mind when designing Campaign 3.

SilentMike03 · May 21, 2021

The battle started off really tense, but Matt cut his legs out from under himself when they started doing the persuasion checks to take Lucien's Legendary Actions away.

I'm glad C2 is ending. Anyone that follows this thread has probably seen me complain about it a lot. A lot of misfires, a lot of missed opportunities. I'll be glad to see them start fresh.

Deer · May 21, 2021

When will the fresh new start be? Have they given any dates to the ending or the beginning of 3? We are sure there is going to be one? I'm so out of the loop

I enjoyed the last episode I saw a lot, and Narrative Telephone was great as always

SilentMike03 · May 21, 2021

Deer said:
When will the fresh new start be? Have they given any dates to the ending or the beginning of 3? We are sure there is going to be one? I'm so out of the loop

I enjoyed the last episode I saw a lot, and Narrative Telephone was great as always

No dates, but once this Lucien arc is complete, it's over. I imagine they'll take a break or do some different stuff for a little bit before jumping into C3.

Frozen Viper · May 21, 2021

I'm excited to seee what comes next, and very excited we're ending this one while we can. Some characters I've liked, but there's a whole lot more I've gone on about in other posts. I think my biggest criticism at the end of the day is the lack of tension. Ever since Molly died, (Which I'm still on the fence as an intentional player ask as Tal was not having fun as a blood hunter I think), every fight has felt too easy. It usually comes down to an 8v1 stomp, where with combat turns taking forever, I never felt I was on the edge of my seat for anything, even this fight. Like another poster said earlier, two heal spells and any consequences were basically removed. I don't know if it was player feedback, or the fan witchment when Molly died, but it definetely felt like the choices, consequences, and difficulty was pulled way back.

I also agree with a lot of others on 'Grand Tour Wildemount'. Glad everyone had a chance to play, and I honestly loved a lot of the session to session character moments, but I think Matt definitely needs to keep the party on a tighter plot like C1.

timedesk · May 21, 2021

Deer said:
When will the fresh new start be? Have they given any dates to the ending or the beginning of 3? We are sure there is going to be one? I'm so out of the loop

I enjoyed the last episode I saw a lot, and Narrative Telephone was great as always

I would expect them to take some time off once Campaign 2 ends. There hasn't really been an extended break since they took time off in December/January. They might do what they did after C1 and do a stretch of one shots to bridge the gap though. I would bet we see the first episode of C3 around the start of Autumn. It could be way earlier though depending on how far back they prerecorded these final episodes though.

Reinhard · May 21, 2021

I doubt there will be any long break from new content, as they did 7 one-shots plus an extra Talks campaign wrap-up at the end of C1 before the typical Christmas break. I imagine something similar will happen this time as long as they can get guests into the studio now that people have their vaccines.

Anoregon · May 21, 2021

The campaign talk is cool but I really can't wait for the Critical Role network's flagship programme, Talks Machine, to return to live in-studio episodes.

Smiley90 · May 21, 2021

Anoregon said:
The campaign talk is cool but I really can't wait for the Critical Role network's flagship programme, Talks Machine, to return to live in-studio episodes.

Personally I'd love to see more Narrative Telephoning or Undeadwoodworking or maybe even Call of Cathay.

GeeseHoward · May 21, 2021

I get matt wanted the party to reach phase 2, but i was really disappointed by what the first phase of lucien turned out to be, especially because the first round was so promising. A Souped up beholder that made it so if you succeeded it's saving throws you'd get branded, making you more likely to not save the following ones. Sure, it was nerfed in some aspects like missing a few particularly dangerous eye lasers (especially paralysis and disintegration) but the core idea around it was truly fantastic.

Then he stopped branding players, so the party which had taken a FULL HOUR (another thing that should have been more heavily punished) to do a heroes feast and already has naturally high wisdom saving throws on average started passing saves a lot more than intended, and because they have 2 clerics and 2 wizards no one stays charmed for long enough to make a dent. And then the random shouts that ate away at legendary actions, the only thing that balances this 1v8 encounter. Some were really good, i'm not the biggest marisha fan but her callbacks to mollymauk felt on point and totally deserved of a combat reward, specially since it means she gave up on her bonus action as a monk which is super important.

However, everyone else felt like was shouting ramblings of all sorts, and there was no punishment for this other than losing a bonus action, which to a lot of these classes isn't a big deal at all. Have the failure of a persuasion check reward an extra legendary action, or give them an extra brand, or a free reaction attack on the person that attempted. Compare this encounter to the vecna fights, or any big fights from c1 and there is a noticeable drop in challenge. It's a shame because you can see the players love the danger, Travis especially got himself all hyped up in the first round when things were flying and people were getting debuffed and taking 40+dmg a pop but then it just fizzled out.

I really hope phase 2 brings some actually challenge, it's the end of a campaign, go buck wild already.

timedesk · May 21, 2021

Anoregon said:
The campaign talk is cool but I really can't wait for the Critical Role network's flagship programme, Talks Machine, to return to live in-studio episodes.

It will be great to have in person Talks episodes again. I've enjoyed what they've managed to produce so far, but it can't quite reach the same level of chaos without them all being in a room together.

More then anything I want to see the return of Game Ranch, just for the insane puppet antics.

GeeseHoward said:
I get matt wanted the party to reach phase 2, but i was really disappointed by what the first phase of lucien turned out to be, especially because the first round was so promising. A Souped up beholder that made it so if you succeeded it's saving throws you'd get branded, making you more likely to not save the following ones. Sure, it was nerfed in some aspects like missing a few particularly dangerous eye lasers (especially paralysis and disintegration) but the core idea around it was truly fantastic.

Then he stopped branding players, so the party which had taken a FULL HOUR (another thing that should have been more heavily punished) to do a heroes feast and already has naturally high wisdom saving throws on average started passing saves a lot more than intended, and because they have 2 clerics and 2 wizards no one stays charmed for long enough to make a dent. And then the random shouts that ate away at legendary actions, the only thing that balances this 1v8 encounter. Some were really good, i'm not the biggest marisha fan but her callbacks to mollymauk felt on point and totally deserved of a combat reward, specially since it means she gave up on her bonus action as a monk which is super important.

However, everyone else felt like was shouting ramblings of all sorts, and there was no punishment for this other than losing a bonus action, which to a lot of these classes isn't a big deal at all. Have the failure of a persuasion check reward an extra legendary action, or give them an extra brand, or a free reaction attack on the person that attempted. Compare this encounter to the vecna fights, or any big fights from c1 and there is a noticeable drop in challenge. It's a shame because you can see the players love the danger, Travis especially got himself all hyped up in the first round when things were flying and people were getting debuffed and taking 40+dmg a pop but then it just fizzled out.

I really hope phase 2 brings some actually challenge, it's the end of a campaign, go buck wild already.

Phase one was a good waste of resources. I guess it depends on what phase two looks like. Beau did a great job trying to connect to Molly, but Caleb and Jester also had some good moments. Lucian did mention needing aid, so I have to assume there will be adds or something that will make the fight less of a 1v8 encounter. On a personal level I like the Molly mechanic, especially if the DC gets harder and harder which it seems to. On a story level I like having the group use their connection to Molly in the fight. Each person doing it as a bonus action on their turn might be a bit overkill, but it was fun to see in this session for me.

Phase one was one of the more interesting boss fights Matt has pulled out for me. I loved the mini, and if I had any talent with painting, would totally want to buy one just to customize it.

Maximo · May 22, 2021

Actually crazy how many places they never visited in Wildmount (judging by the campaign book). I mean seriously they never visited the biggest Dwarf (and Elves) city in the whole of Wildmount, missed some early Dwarf interaction like the start of the last campaign.

IIFloodyII · May 22, 2021

I just had a random thought, but with C2 ending with some fairly big loose ends, I wonder if C3 will pick up pretty much immediately after timeline wise, so the fallout will be felt in C3 a lot more than anything from C1 did and Matt will do with that what he wants. Could be pretty cool world building and the M9 not being all that well established could open up some interesting stuff too. As we can probably assume not all will just give up on the adventuring.

Dandy · May 22, 2021

IIFloodyII said:
I just had a random thought, but with C2 ending with some fairly big loose ends, I wonder if C3 will pick up pretty much immediately after timeline wise, so the fallout will be felt in C3 a lot more than anything from C1 did and Matt will do with that what he wants. Could be pretty cool world building and the M9 not being all that well established could open up some interesting stuff too. As we can probably assume not all will just give up on the adventuring.

I'm looking forward to "getting" the callbacks to Campaign 2(I stopped watched C1 after 45 episodes or so)... But I assumed/hoped C3 would be on another continent. I could see Ukatoa showing up somehow in different area of the world, or maybe Trent escapes justice and flees to another continent.

CoolOff · May 22, 2021

Issylra based campaign lesssssgoooo

IIFloodyII · May 22, 2021

Dandy said:
I'm looking forward to "getting" the callbacks to Campaign 2(I stopped watched C1 after 45 episodes or so)... But I assumed/hoped C3 would be on another continent. I could see Ukatoa showing up somehow in different area of the world, or maybe Trent escapes justice and flees to another continent.

Oh I think it'd be on a different continent, but just stuff like the CA being exposed, Aeor being fully explored and reborn to a degree with the bubbles and robot dude, it's ties with Dunamancy and Uk'otoa being 1 seal away (and Lucien being almost completely naked after his transformation, so who knows where the Cloven Crystal is) all causing big waves if Matt wants.

vastag · May 22, 2021

With the Cloven Crystal lost and C2 ending I would expect a free Ukatoa being part of the background of C3.

Sensei · May 23, 2021

i hope Liam plays a Way of the Long Death monk next game, it would be perfect for him

Dandy · May 23, 2021

I feel like monk would be too basic for Liam.

SilkySm00th · May 23, 2021

With Matt confirming it i'm kind of busting against a couple different feelings here at the end of C2.

I don't know that I'll ever personally get over how fucking important godamn Molly is to this campaign in general. In the worst ways. I've talked way too much here about Yasha and Fjord. The face and muscle who are both too scared or confused to be assertive. Their meandering family vacation style scoot over the this amazing world Matt created. Their constant decision paralysis and ever-present hand wringing and worrying. The reality of families and trauma and healing and all this stuff actually kind of holding back your ability to have a certain kind of fun in your DND game that people want to watch. A destroyed pirate arc because nobody would just step up and be a leader....

But there's Jester (in general) but specifically the fuckin Hag Scam and the sending and fucking Tusk Love! Caleb's Tower (while a long fuckin read) is amazing and Liam as a spellcaster is a delight. The components and him actively working as a wizard to develop spells and such had been so good and was seriously missing from the first campaign. Sam downplays how good he is as a rogue as well as how layered and subtle and hilarious Nott/Veth is. ( i liked Nott more.) Marisha and Beau are both fuckin great. She gets her class and knew her shit and leaned into her insane note taking in the best possible way and Cad is light years better than either of Taliesin's previous characters.

Matt continues to be amazing. Wildemount is fantastic. From Trent and The Traveler to Ukatoa and Essek. I wish the group had had even a single fucking nibble on any of the hundred different hooks he left open besides the path they decided to choose which I believe is partially responsible for Molly being the focus. If somewhere mid-C3 he had busted out Lucien i think it would have been fuckin genius. As is?

Lucien feels like the lame big bad that this group deserves. A floating Irish(?) representation of their personal baggage that shoots guilt lasers.

I think i'm ready for C3 lol

(Ukatoa has got to be a one-shot at least. They have to make the M9/VM crossover. The Hag is an easy one shot. I think Trent and the CA will mostly wait for C3 or be resolved in RP in the wind down episode or two we will get here in a few weeks.)

I'd love to see Ashley play someone closer to her character in the Darrington Brigade one shot. Like a fighter or whatever that's just a shit talker.
Travis should absolutely be a monk. Of what sort who knows but boi loves that DBZ so maybe Sun Soul like meeeeeeee? :-) He'd also make a good cleric, i think.
I hope Laura tries out Warlock or maybe Druid...
Liam should be a Pally. He'd make fantastic Higher than Thou speeches and would capitalize on max damage/smite kind of shit like only number crunchers can
Sam i'd love to see as a Battle Smith or something like that. Some weird race where it isn't a curse or whatever that you get to magic away.
Marisha should be a Tortle.
Taliesin I would really enjoy watching properly use big magic. Sorcerer or something like that...
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If they don't wrap up Ukatoa - it would be interesting if they opened up C3 with him being released and the oceans becoming crazy dangerous to traverse unless your super close to the coast. Are there any really huge island chains on Exandria??

Also make with the air ship. Ok i'm done

Anoregon · May 23, 2021

I like the idea of Ukotoa being a presence in C3. He isn't some apocalyptic threat like Vecna or Cognouza that would just paralyze the entire world, but his dominance of the seas could have some interesting ramifications on the political landscape of the world. Imagine if it was commonplace for coastal towns/cities to be basically transformed into Ukotoa-worshipping cult strongholds just out of self-preservation.

SilentMike03 · May 23, 2021

I think I'd rather Taliesin not be a spell caster next campaign. This past episode reminded me how often he'll have something planned out, another player or Matt will do something that will mess with his plan, and now his turn takes 10 minutes to pick something else to do. Laura can also get like that sometimes too and I feel like her being a druid would overwhelm her with choice overload. But she does like being a mammoth and stomping things, so I guess if she really leaned into the wild shapes instead of spell casting it could work.

Uk'otoa's story is pretty much done. They just launch that last orb into the sun and the fish is stuck in its prison forever. Fjord will have to stay away from the water the rest of his life or be hunted, but that's kinda it on that front.

Anoregon said:
I like the idea of Ukotoa being a presence in C3. He isn't some apocalyptic threat like Vecna or Cognouza that would just paralyze the entire world, but his dominance of the seas could have some interesting ramifications on the political landscape of the world. Imagine if it was commonplace for coastal towns/cities to be basically transformed into Ukotoa-worshipping cult strongholds just out of self-preservation.

I really like this idea. Like Uk'otoa will never break free to become some world ending threat, but the ocean in that area becomes a total No Man's Land where ship travel is basically impossible due to an overwhelming number of monsters. And like the coastal cities have to battle the occasional monster attack.

The CA stuff isn't something that really lends itself to RP. The goal of Caleb is systemic change of a governmental body and boooooooooy do I not want to see them play that out.

Doc Kelso · May 23, 2021

Anoregon said:
I like the idea of Ukotoa being a presence in C3. He isn't some apocalyptic threat like Vecna or Cognouza that would just paralyze the entire world, but his dominance of the seas could have some interesting ramifications on the political landscape of the world. Imagine if it was commonplace for coastal towns/cities to be basically transformed into Ukotoa-worshipping cult strongholds just out of self-preservation.

I absolutely love this idea. It really communicates to the players that they're in a living, breathing world that is going to react to their (in)action. It's a really cool narrative device to keep players invested in threads presented to them; I've done it in a few games and it's almost always resulted in the players that continue to be a part of my groups laser-focusing on things rather than getting stuck in decision paralysis. Even if it WAS just a throwaway line, it's always had fun results.

And thankfully with Allura and Kima making their appearances, I feel confident that Matt is comfortable throwing things in like that rather than completely ignoring the prior campaign(s).

SilentMike03 said:
The CA stuff isn't something that really lends itself to RP. The goal of Caleb is systemic change of a governmental body and boooooooooy do I not want to see them play that out.

Very much agreed on not wanting to see them play this out. A plot like that is best left to an entire campaign imo since it absolutely HAS to focus on gathering allies for what will essentially be a revolution. It's a great narrative arc that can lead players to resolving smaller stories in different parts of the country but it absolutely falls flat if it's something that's not always looming in the background as the group's goal.

As for the entirety of C2, I feel like COVID really took the wind out of their sails. It's hard to feel comfortable introducing stakes that can be difficult to navigate when people are looking to D&D as an escape to an absolutely miserable situation. Maybe it's projecting a bit, but I've definitely shifted the tone from my campaign away from periods of hopelessness to have more of a focus on moment-to-moment heroics. It makes the story less thrilling overall but my players seem to appreciate it, though I know they'd be bored if life wasn't so shitty for the past year.

I'm forever curious to see how this arc would've played out if Molly was still around. It likely would've changed the entire tone of the campaign in general but nonetheless, having the Big Bad Evil Guy be the split personality of a deceased player character is definitely A Choice™.

Freeglader · May 23, 2021

Just finished the episode and I really enjoyed that combat. Mercer's comment at the end that this fight is his love letter to Final Fantasy put a smile on my face. This final boss sequence feels like Exdeath, Kefka, and Sephiroth all rolled up into one with a healthy dose of Lovecraftian cosmic horror thrown in.

Anoregon · May 23, 2021

If phase 1 Lucien was a beholder, is phase 2 gonna be Mindflayer? Being physically jacked in to the center of the city is kind of like being an Elder Brain.

eyeball_kid · May 23, 2021

SilentMike03 said:
The battle started off really tense, but Matt cut his legs out from under himself when they started doing the persuasion checks to take Lucien's Legendary Actions away.

I think Matt wanted to soft ball the first phase to make sure they weren't exhausted for Lucien: Final Fantasy Remix. Although if may put my cynical hat on, Matt may want to soft ball all the boss phases to make sure the M9 survive for post-campaign media opportunities, one shots, etc.

Sheentak · May 23, 2021

eyeball_kid said:
I think Matt wanted to soft ball the first phase to make sure they weren't exhausted for Lucien: Final Fantasy Remix. Although if may put my cynical hat on, Matt may want to soft ball all the boss phases to make sure the M9 survive for post-campaign media opportunities, one shots, etc.

ID love a party wipe, the fan base needs a reality check and the fact a party wipe would really help sell the stakes of the game

CoolOff · May 23, 2021

I really hope commercial aspects don't come into play in terms of soft balling encounters. Also on the flipside, couldn't a party wipe immortalize the characters?

Sheentak · May 23, 2021

CoolOff said:
I really hope commercial aspects don't come into play in terms of soft balling encounters. Also on the flipside, couldn't a party wipe immortalize the characters?

This! A party wipe would show that characters aren't safe and really show the stakes in the medium and critical role

Grexeno · May 23, 2021

This is the only place on the entire internet that wants a party wipe.

SilkySm00th · May 23, 2021

Yah covid really effected them a lot. Creative types who thrive on contact to the point where yearly burning man trips became a given to refresh having to basically be shut ins for a year? Obviously changed stuff...

Their first game back together at the top of a new campaign will have some real deal new life energy

Nif · May 23, 2021

Sheentak said:
ID love a party wipe, the fan base needs a reality check and the fact a party wipe would really help sell the stakes of the game

It's not reality, though. It's a fantasy tabletop game between a bunch of friends who want to have a good time.

They deal with screwing up combat in their own way. I don't see why a party wipe would make things any better.

fallout · May 23, 2021

I'd love a party wipe. It's part of the D&D experience and it's always meaningful when you really care deeply about the characters, which so many of us do.

SilentMike03 · May 23, 2021

The only situation I'd be okay with a party wipe is in the beginning of a campaign, like less than 50 episodes in, before the people can get super attached to anybody.

God, if there was a party wipe, I can only imagine how gross the fanbase would become. I can see the death threats to Matt already.

Smiley90 · May 23, 2021

SilentMike03 said:
The only situation I'd be okay with a party wipe is in the beginning of a campaign, like less than 50 episodes in, before the people can get super attached to anybody.

God, if there was a party wipe, I can only imagine how gross the fanbase would become. I can see the death threats to Matt already.

Given that the campaign is ending anyway, why would anyone care? Molly died mid-campaign a long time ago and people still make art, so that can't be it.

CoolOff · May 23, 2021

Smiley90 said:
why would anyone care?

Uh, you know what fandom we're talking about, right?

Smiley90 · May 23, 2021

CoolOff said:
Uh, you know what fandom we're talking about, right?

.... Fair....

PeskyToaster · May 23, 2021

i just don't get the fandom in this case. Molly's death was the most exciting moment in this entire campaign, why would you not want more of that shit? You get the excitement of a new character plus you can toss away a dead end one. Wins all around. Would've been nice if they actually made Cad very against resurrection magic. He hints at it but they still do it, even to him.

eyeball_kid said:
I think Matt wanted to soft ball the first phase to make sure they weren't exhausted for Lucien: Final Fantasy Remix. Although if may put my cynical hat on, Matt may want to soft ball all the boss phases to make sure the M9 survive for post-campaign media opportunities, one shots, etc.

Nothing about a character's death stops any of those things though. Especially in DND where the resurrection rules are incredibly flexible.

timedesk · May 23, 2021

Anoregon said:
I like the idea of Ukotoa being a presence in C3. He isn't some apocalyptic threat like Vecna or Cognouza that would just paralyze the entire world, but his dominance of the seas could have some interesting ramifications on the political landscape of the world. Imagine if it was commonplace for coastal towns/cities to be basically transformed into Ukotoa-worshipping cult strongholds just out of self-preservation.

I really like this idea. I don't know if Matt would commit to having Uk'otoa just running loose in the world, but I could see his cult growing a lot in power. The cloven crystal is either lost in the Astral Plane, the ruins of Aeor, or is with Fjord. Maybe they give up on getting it and just grow their ranks until they have the means to make a new one.

Doc Kelso said:
As for the entirety of C2, I feel like COVID really took the wind out of their sails. It's hard to feel comfortable introducing stakes that can be difficult to navigate when people are looking to D&D as an escape to an absolutely miserable situation. Maybe it's projecting a bit, but I've definitely shifted the tone from my campaign away from periods of hopelessness to have more of a focus on moment-to-moment heroics. It makes the story less thrilling overall but my players seem to appreciate it, though I know they'd be bored if life wasn't so shitty for the past year.

I kind of agree. It does feel like Covid kind of killed a lot of their momentum. They might have decided around that time that the campaign would begin its final act in the near future.

I still think this campaign will wrap up well. If they want to resolve any back story plot points or lingering story threads there are always one shots. At this moment I am ready to step away from the M9 a bit, but would love to see them again in a little mini arc or collection of one shots after a time skip. I think one flaw in this campaign is that it never stopped moving. Vox Machina really benefited from that year or two skip after the Conclave. We just never got to see this group truly unwind or settle down. They spent such a long time actively adventuring but didn't always have the time to build roots or connections. Some real downtime would have maybe helped that.

I'm a little sad that people seem so angry at the cast on twitter. I get feeling really attached to these characters. It has been hundreds of hours of content with them after all, but it's not like this is the last we will see of them. CR is still doing stuff with Vox Machina four years after their campaign ended. The M9 might not get an animated series, but I imagine they might try some more comics and the like. Hopefully people will have a chance to settle down after the news has had time to sit.

Pilgrimzero · May 23, 2021

I can't wait for new characters. I frankly never got attached to any of them (and found most of them dull) except Jester and Nott. And Nott became less fun when she got turned back into a halfling.

Vox had better characters then M9, IMO. Though Jester is the best of both campaigns.

Maximo · May 23, 2021

Pilgrimzero said:
I can't wait for new characters. I frankly never got attached to any of them (and found most of them dull) except Jester and Nott. And Nott became less fun when she got turned back into a halfling.

Vox had better characters then M9, IMO. Though Jester is the best of both campaigns.

Wonder if Liam will play a happy character for once hahaha.

Sheentak · May 23, 2021

ID like to See Liam play a grog type character no Anst just smash.

timedesk · May 23, 2021

Maximo said:
Wonder if Liam will play a happy character for once hahaha.

I'll honestly settle for him playing someone not actively unhappy lol. It would be cool to see him play a more energetic character. Let him play a mad scientist artificer, or a self important sorcerer. It would be a lot of fun to see him play a character whose instinct is to be social instead of brooding.

eyeball_kid · May 23, 2021

PeskyToaster said:
Nothing about a character's death stops any of those things though. Especially in DND where the resurrection rules are incredibly flexible.

I was saying that more in the context of a TPK event. The M9 are alone, massively outgunned, and with no possible help from their NPC friends like C1. The chance of a TPK is much greater than ever before unless Matt purposefully tones down the fight.

But in general this campaign has had very low death stakes compared to C1. I don't know if this is because of the death rules change or Matt has just turned down the boss difficulty. Molly really only died because Tal made a gigantic mistake. There's been a couple close calls, but nothing like the deaths we saw in C1.

Sheentak · May 24, 2021

Kill the party. It will make season 3 feel way different, it could be the empire strikes back of critical role.

ArkkAngel007 · May 24, 2021

With a party of this size and make up, you would have to go well out of your way to TPK the party, let alone kill one of the PCs outright. Nor do I think Mercer would adopt an antagonistic DM approach to do so without the table buying in prior to that.

SilkySm00th · May 24, 2021

eyeball_kid said:
Molly really only died because Tal made a gigantic mistake. There's been a couple close calls, but nothing like the deaths we saw in C1.

Molly died because Tal was not enjoying the blood hunter. That fight was garbage all the way around with people making ass decisions but Taliesin literally killing himself in front of the current big bad was defo a setup.

Honestly too it always bugged me cause like ... haven't they only known each other for like a year and some change maybe? Not even? And Molly died like a couple months in? These people shoot the shit and crack jokes about burying axes into skulls but some acquaintance of theirs dies and all of a sudden they straight shook?

Stupid molly.... lol

eyeball_kid · May 24, 2021

ArkkAngel007 said:
With a party of this size and make up, you would have to go well out of your way to TPK the party, let alone kill one of the PCs outright. Nor do I think Mercer would adopt an antagonistic DM approach to do so without the table buying in prior to that.

Lucien is in control of an entire magical city. I don't see how a TPK is some far-fetched idea in this scenario

timedesk · May 24, 2021

eyeball_kid said:
I was saying that more in the context of a TPK event. The M9 are alone, massively outgunned, and with no possible help from their NPC friends like C1. The chance of a TPK is much greater than ever before unless Matt purposefully tones down the fight.

But in general this campaign has had very low death stakes compared to C1. I don't know if this is because of the death rules change or Matt has just turned down the boss difficulty. Molly really only died because Tal made a gigantic mistake. There's been a couple close calls, but nothing like the deaths we saw in C1.

I don't think the death rules changed exactly. Matt said he rolled for revivifies behind the screen, and we did see players role for them once or twice. The problem was we never had a death that required a full ritual. Mostly because the group had two clerics, and spells like the dome to reliably give them long rests. VM also didn't have someone who could reliably cast revivify for the whole campaign, so it lead to more rituals having to be performed.

Reinhard · May 24, 2021

SilkySm00th said:
Molly died because Tal was not enjoying the blood hunter. That fight was garbage all the way around with people making ass decisions but Taliesin literally killing himself in front of the current big bad was defo a setup.

Honestly too it always bugged me cause like ... haven't they only known each other for like a year and some change maybe? Not even? And Molly died like a couple months in? These people shoot the shit and crack jokes about burying axes into skulls but some acquaintance of theirs dies and all of a sudden they straight shook?

Stupid molly.... lol

Molly was such a crap character in more ways than one. Totally useless in combat as he was melee only and used hit points as a resource to do anything which is needed just to keep standing and the damage was subpar for a supposed dps class. And out of combat he was a smarmy know it all who couldn't back up his superior attitude.

I was very happy to see him go, Cad is better in every way imaginable.

eyeball_kid said:
Lucien is in control of an entire magical city. I don't see how a TPK is some far-fetched idea in this scenario

Yeah, a living city is pretty tough, especially since they don't all have vestiges or other super overpowering gear like the boots of haste from C1. Even Fjord's vestige doesn't seem nearly as powerful as some of the C1 versions.

What would be cool is if Matt no longer plays softball and goes ahead and wipes out the party and for C3 the M9 + Essek + Lucien make a new 9 entity Somnovem.

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