Days Gone Lead: "Don’t Complain if There’s no Sequel if you Didn’t Buy it Full Price", "Metacritic Score Is Everything to Sony"

[EricTheGamerman]

You can dodge some really crappy games because of metacritic/opencritic.

This ain't it.

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Reading the reviews and watching footage post launch gives you like 100% more understanding of if the games would appeal to you versus "arbitrary scores that aren't even using the median as a reference point, but the easily influenced average" as a point of determination.

 

[Lowrys]

I feel there's a step missing in the logic here. Metacritic score and the price you pay aren't related. So if MC is "everything" to Sony, what does it matter whether you buy it on sale?

 

[KomandaHeck]

How the fuck am I supposed to know I love a game before buying/playing it?

Did he even think about the words coming out of his mouth there?

 

[Deleted member 12867]

Ah yes I should blindly buy games full price. It's not like most of them launch busted anymore right?

 

[KamenRiderEra]

With all respect for the devs, but Days Gone was always uninteresting with the saturated zombie setting. I'm glad that we are not receiving a sequel and maybe the resources will be for a more unique IP/setting.

 

[Extra Sauce]

yeah, fucking peasants should shut their filthy subserviant mouths if they cannot afford to pay a measly $90 CAD for a video game

 

[Bundy]

"Metacritic Score Is Everything to Sony"

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Yikes.

 

[GeoGonzo]

But it's the truth. Can't whine about it when you personally don't even support the thing that isn't going to get more exposure.

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I disagree both with that sentence and its wording. More importantly, shitty sentences can be both true and shitty: Like, if a friend has a child and you go "having children is among the worst things a human can do when fighting climate change" you'd be 100% right and 100% an asshole.

 

[Uzupedro]

Translation before the outrag-... Nevermind.

Ok, still, translation:

-he is right
-the entire interview helps a lot because he is not avoiding his responsibility in game's success/failure
-he is telling it how it is, the game was met with nothing but question marks and passive remarks to negatives prior to launch because it was 'just another zombie game', post launch it was a 70+ metacritic fully priced game and it took a lot of months and effort and patching to get it where it is now.
-but late fanbase and buying AAA at 1/3 of the price is not what greenlights a sequel at Sony, that is understandable

He is not telling you to spend money like a maniac and ignore the meta, he is telling you that specifically Days Gone wasn't there at launch, both critically and from a gamer staindpoint

Compare it to GoT and you know it's true.

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.

 

[IIFloodyII]

I feel there's a step missing in the logic here. Metacritic score and the price you pay aren't related. So if MC is "everything" to Sony, what does it matter whether you buy it on sale?

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Because they are two different points slamed together for some reason, metacritic (the critical reception) is important if you wanna keep directing games basically.

 

[Prototype Viktor]

Big launches, good reviews and award shows. All good ammunition for the sales department.

Sony has been trying to turn console gaming into the television and film industry. When you look at their budgets amd the type of games they make it's easy to see why.

I still find it a little gross but it's better than outright trying to copy a company like Nintendo. That company still has it's innocence compared to Sony which does not.

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Lol one of more manipulating companies is innocence?

 

[bigbaldwolf86]

So he's comparing GoW, a series with multiple entries amd is a well established IP with Days Gone which was a new IP. The guy is either delusional or doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[Iron Eddie]

Now we will see how many buy it new on PC, even though it costs more than it does for the PS4/PS5.

 

[ShinobiBk]

From what I remember, Days Gone was commercially successful though?
It certainly didn't bomb

 

[Lemony1984]

So he's comparing GoW, a series with multiple entries amd is a well established IP with Days Gone which was a new IP. The guy is either delusional or doesn't know what he's talking about.

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Ghost of Tsushima is probably a better example but he was talking off the cuff.

 

[Deleted member 10612]

It seems clear you aren't actually reading what I say and instead feels like you are trying to reflexively defend a billion dollar corporation for reasons.

True blood was not massive out the gate. It debuted with barely a million viewers. Game of Thrones season one garnered 2 million viewers. Compare that to their later seasons where Game of Thrones was pulling in 8-10 million day one views and True Blood 6 million. With equal or more from DVR and DVD sales.

They were not massive successes out the gate. But they were kept because unlike Rome era HBO, where that series also garnered similar season one ratings, difference being that True Blood and GoT era HBO recognized a product's success is not accurately measured by just their day one viewings and critic scores. A more holistic approach must be considered, including that brands take time to build.

That is what Sony lacks if these claims are accurate. Unless you think no game has ever seen a post launch surge or metacritic is a 100% accurate barometer of quality. If not, then Sony's weighted metric focused on release window sales and metacritic is flawed. End of story.

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GoT Season 1:

First-season reviewers said the series had high production values, a fully realized world and compelling characters.According to Variety, "There may be no show more profitable to its network than 'Game of Thrones' is to HBO. Fully produced by the pay cabler and already a global phenomenon after only one season, the fantasy skein was a gamble that has paid off handsomely.

 

[IIFloodyII]

From what I remember, Days Gone was commercially successful though?
It certainly didn't bomb

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It was profitable according to Jason.

 

[Nola]

How the fuck am I supposed to know I love a game before buying/playing it?

Did he even think about the words coming out of his mouth there?

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It would seem he did, the question is why is Sony basing their business model on such rigid and questionable metrics?

Makes even less sense in the age of 70 dollar games.

I can already see Returnal getting an 80-85 on Metacritic with ho hum initial sales and Sony axing the property.

 

[Lo-Volt]

Lots of consumers prefer to wait for bundles and sales for all sorts of items, not just video games. I think this behavior is well-documented enough that someone like him shouldn't be surprised by it, even if he is disappointed. And as for his comments on Metacritic, I suspect he would say the same or IGN or GameSpot scores alone if this happened at another point in time. These are new wrinkles on consistent consumer behavior.

That said, it's also unfortunate if Days Gone actually benefited from a slow burn only for Sony to preclude a potential sequel. But if the title didn't make a sufficiently strong first impression to warrant another title...

 

[RedHeat]

GoT Season 1:

First-season reviewers said the series had high production values, a fully realized world and compelling characters.[SUP][258][/SUP] According to Variety, "There may be no show more profitable to its network than 'Game of Thrones' is to HBO. Fully produced by the pay cabler and already a global phenomenon after only one season, the fantasy skein was a gamble that has paid off handsomely."[SUP][259][/SUP]

[SUP]Awards:[/SUP]

Year	Award	Category	Nominee(s)	Result	Ref.
2011	AFI Awards	AFI TV Award	Game of Thrones	Won	[SUP][88][/SUP]
Artios Awards	Outstanding Achievement in Casting – Television Pilot Drama	Nina Gold	Nominated	[SUP][89][/SUP]
Outstanding Achievement in Casting – Television Series Drama	Nominated
Portal Award	Best Actor	Sean Bean	Won	[SUP][90][/SUP]
Best Actress	Lena Headey	Nominated
Best Supporting Actor	Peter Dinklage	Nominated
Best Episode	Winter Is Coming	Won
Best Series	Game of Thrones	Won
Best Young Actor	Isaac Hempstead-Wright	Nominated
Maisie Williams	Nominated
EWwy Award	Best Supporting Actress, Drama	Emilia Clarke	Won	[SUP][91][/SUP] [SUP][92][/SUP]
Best Actor, Drama	Sean Bean	Nominated
63rd Primetime Emmy Awards	Outstanding Directing for a Drama Series	Tim Van Patten for "Winter Is Coming"	Nominated	[SUP][87][/SUP]
Outstanding Drama Series	Vince Gerardis, Frank Doelger, Ralph Vicinanza, Mark Huffam, David Benioff, Carolyn Strauss, George R. R. Martin, Guymon Casady and D. B. Weiss	Nominated
Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Drama Series	Peter Dinklage	Won
Outstanding Writing for a Drama Series	David Benioff and D. B. Weiss for "Baelor"	Nominated
63rd Primetime Creative Arts Emmy Awards	Outstanding Casting for a Drama Series	Nina Gold and Robert Sterne	Nominated
Outstanding Costumes for a Series	Michele Clapton and Rachael Webb-Crozier for "The Pointy End"	Nominated
Outstanding Hairstyling for a Single-Camera Series	Kevin Alexander and Candice Banks for "A Golden Crown"	Nominated
Outstanding Main Title Design	Angus Wall, Hameed Shaukat, Kirk Shintani and Robert Feng	Won
Outstanding Makeup for a Single-Camera Series (Non-Prosthetic)	Paul Engelen and Melissa Lackersteen for "Winter Is Coming"	Nominated
Outstanding Prosthetic Makeup for a Series, Miniseries, Movie or a Special	Paul Engelen and Conor O'Sullivan for "A Golden Crown"	Nominated
Outstanding Sound Editing for a Series	Robin Quinn, Steve Fanagan, Eoghan McDonnell, Jon Stevenson, Tim Hands, Stefan Henrix, Caoimhe Doyle, Michelle McCormack and Andy Kennedy for "A Golden Crown"	Nominated
Outstanding Special Visual Effects	Rafael Morant, Adam McInnes, Graham Hills, Lucy Ainsworth-Taylor, Stuart Brisdon, Damien Macé, Henry Badgett and Angela Barson for "Fire and Blood"	Nominated
Outstanding Stunt Coordination	Paul Jennings for "The Wolf and the Lion"	Nominated
Women's Image Network Awards	Actress Drama Series	Lena Headey	Nominated	[SUP][93][/SUP]
International Film Music Critics Association	Best Original Score for a Television Series	Ramin Djawadi	Nominated	[SUP][94][/SUP]
1st Critics' Choice Television Awards	Best Drama Series	Game of Thrones	Nominated	[SUP][95][/SUP]
69th Golden Globe Awards	Best Supporting Actor – Series, Miniseries or Television Film	Peter Dinklage	Won	[SUP][96][/SUP]
Best Television Series – Drama	Game of Thrones	Nominated
Peabody Award		Game of Thrones	Won	[SUP][97][/SUP]
16th Satellite Awards	Best Supporting Actor – Series, Miniseries or Television Film	Peter Dinklage	Won	[SUP][98][/SUP]
Best Television Series – Genre	Game of Thrones	Nominated
Scream Awards	Best Ensemble	Game of Thrones	Nominated	[SUP][99][/SUP]
Best Fantasy Actor	Sean Bean	Nominated
Best Fantasy Actress	Lena Headey	Nominated
Best Supporting Actor	Peter Dinklage	Won
Best TV Show	Game of Thrones	Won
Breakout Performance – Female	Emilia Clarke	Won
Most Memorable Mutilation	"Head covered in molten gold" from "A Golden Crown"	Nominated
The Ultimate Scream	Game of Thrones	Nominated
27th TCA Awards	Individual Achievement in Drama	Peter Dinklage	Nominated	[SUP][100][/SUP]
Outstanding Achievement in Drama	Game of Thrones	Nominated
Outstanding New Program	Game of Thrones	Won
Program of the Year	Game of Thrones	Nominated
Gold Derby TV Awards 2011	Best Drama Series	Game of Thrones	Nominated	[SUP][101][/SUP]
Best Drama Supporting Actor	Peter Dinklage	Nominated
IGN Awards	Best TV Hero	Sean Bean as Ned Stark	Won	[SUP][102][/SUP]
Best TV Twist	Off with his head!	Won
Best TV Episode	Baelor	Won
Best TV Series	Game of Thrones	Nominated
Best TV Drama Series	Game of Thrones	Nominated
Best TV Actor	Peter Dinklage	Nominated
Best TV Actress	Emilia Clarke	Nominated
Best TV Hero	Kit Harington as Jon Snow	Nominated
Best TV Villain	Jack Gleeson as Joffrey Baratheon	Nominated
IGN People's Choice Award	Best TV Series	Game of Thrones	Won
Best TV Drama Series	Game of Thrones	Won
Best TV Hero	Sean Bean as Ned Stark	Won
Best TV Twist	Off with his head!	Won
Best TV Episode	Baelor	Nominated
Best TV Hero	Kit Harington as Jon Snow	Nominated
Best TV Actor	Peter Dinklage	Nominated
Best TV Actress	Emilia Clarke	Nominated
Best TV Villain	Jack Gleeson as Joffrey Baratheon	Nominated
Writers Guild of America Awards	New Series	David Benioff, Bryan Cogman, Jane Espenson, George R. R. Martin, D. B. Weiss	Nominated	[SUP][103][/SUP]
Television Drama Series	David Benioff, Bryan Cogman, Jane Espenson, George R. R. Martin, D. B. Weiss	Nominated

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Oh god, what's happening

 

[Nola]

GoT Season 1:

First-season reviewers said the series had high production values, a fully realized world and compelling characters.[SUP][258][/SUP] According to Variety, "There may be no show more profitable to its network than 'Game of Thrones' is to HBO. Fully produced by the pay cabler and already a global phenomenon after only one season, the fantasy skein was a gamble that has paid off handsomely."[SUP][259][/SUP]

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Again, stop rage posting and being a Sony apologist and read what I am saying...or don't, but this nonsense is making you look foolish.

You have not once addressed a single thing about my core point.

Simpe question, do you think metacritic and week one sales are completely accurate barometers of quality and eventual market capture? Yes or no

If yes, explain, if no, then you are agreeing with my critique.

 

[LazyLain]

Yeah obviously Sony wants as many full-price sales as possible.... but I'll complain about anything I want regardless of whatever price I was able to personally justify spending, thanks.

 

[Extra Sauce]

yeah, fucking peasants should shut their filthy subserviant mouths if they cannot afford to pay a measly $90 CAD for a video game

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sorry, I meant to say $103.50 CAD with the current gen pricing.

damn peons!

 

[Deleted member 10612]

Oh god, what's happening

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I already edited my post, lol.

Again, stop rage posting and being a Sony apologist and read what I am saying...or don't, but this nonsense is making you look foolish.

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You are the guy who said GoT was not a success. I just tried to show you it was, a massive hit.
I had a copy/paste fuck up, oh the horror...

 

[AcademicSaucer]

I thought the game sold really well? At least I saw it touted as selling very well in the "Days Gone is actually really good" threads.

Guess it was mostly selling after discounts then?

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Horizon also sold a lot thanks to discounts so maybe that's not the whole story

 

[nib95]

With all due respect, games are pretty expensive day one, and I'm not always taking such a risk day one on a poorly reviewed game purely in the hope I'll feel differently to most critics, especially when 90% of the time my opinions roughly line-up with critical consensus.

As per the last Jaffe podcast with the ex-lead at Bend, they did internal review testing, and they knew they had a divisive game in Days Gone before it had even launched. Yet instead of fine tuning or polishing the parts people disliked (keep in mind they spent 6 years on it), they released it nonetheless, and even then it was really buggy at launch too.

Ultimately I don't think his stance is fair on consumers, and I'm glad Sony has a commitment to quality. It's kind of that seal of first party quality I'd want from a system I'd bought.

 

[SGRX]

Days Gone wasn't exactly polished at release, and while the developers did a good job with post-launch support, that's not always the case. I was interested in the game, but I usually don't pay full price at launch unless it's a title I'm really looking forward to.

With Sony setting MSRP at $70 this generation, combined with a nonexistent refund policy on PSN, it's fairly likely I won't buy any of their games at launch.

 

[bigbaldwolf86]

Ghost of Tsushima is probably a better example but he was talking off the cuff.

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Yeah thats probably a better comparison but Days Gone didn't exactly release to rave reviews and had a lot of issues at launch. The same can't be said for Tsushima which was universally praised at launch. His expectations were clearly to high.

 

[Shizuka]

It doesn't surprise me in the least.

 

[Lemony1984]

Yeah thats probably a better comparison but Days Gone didn't exactly release to rave reviews and had a lot of issues at launch. The same can't be said for Tsushima which was universally praised at launch. His expectations were clearly to high.

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That's literally the point he's making.

 

[Deleted member 2145]

sounds like people should complain more tbh, especially since the game got post-release updates

fuck sony with this mindset and I don't even care about days gone. the onus shouldn't be on the playerbase to just be there day 1 regardless and sony should be better about judging games that got major updates after launch to where the metacritic score and early full price sales don't tell the whole story

 

[Shairi]

Yikes.

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There is nothing wrong about that.

Wanting that your expensive blockbuster games reach a certain level of quality is something good and something every big publisher should strive for.

 

[Chip Chanceworth]

You didn't mention the MP beta in your previous post but yeah, only looking at the score of the first few reviews and being "done" with said game is silly... The sad thing is that a lot of people likely do the same shit nowadays.

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Yeah i did. Post #601, Its all good. Allot of people in that thread fall into that camp as well. That review thread is full of them.

 

[Alienhated]

Honestly, what terrifies me the most about any publisher giving Metacritic scores so much power and influence is that most of the times the kind of games that get the biggest scores from critics are basically the artistic equivalent of Marvel movies.

 

[Nola]

I already edited my post, lol.



You are the guy who said GoT was not a success. I just tried to show you it was, a massive hit. I had a copy/paste fuck up, oh the horror...

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Again, you are not reading the words I am actually writing.

Either start doing so or bother someone else with your inane corporate apologetics.

 

[Nola]

Oh god, what's happening

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Trying to figure out myself

 

[Deleted member 63122]

Lots of consumers prefer to wait for bundles and sales for all sorts of items, not just video games. I think this behavior is well-documented enough that someone like him shouldn't be surprised by it, even if he is disappointed. And as for his comments on Metacritic, I suspect he would say the same or IGN or GameSpot scores alone if this happened at another point in time. These are new wrinkles on consistent consumer behavior.

That said, it's also unfortunate if Days Gone actually benefited from a slow burn only for Sony to preclude a potential sequel. But if the title didn't make a sufficiently strong first impression to warrant another title...

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I think that's exactly what Sony is going to fight this gen.

 

[super moustique]

Yeah i did. Post #601, Its all good.

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Ah, yeah, I missed that one! :D

 

[iksenpets]

This seems like a whole lot of mental gymnastics to blame someone else for his game not resonating with the people who buy day 1 and with critics. And I don't think this was some marketing failure from Sony — reaction to Days Gone was pretty immediately lukewarm from the first demo it got. I'm glad it found some later audience on sale, but there's no way to blame the consumers if the game just didn't appeal to the people who would be willing to show up with $60 on day one. This weird grievance tour really isn't engendering much sympathy to him or his future projects.

 

[bigbaldwolf86]

That's literally the point he's making.

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He's making it very poorly then

 

[ByWatterson]

I think the lede is getting buried here.

He basically says he was fired because he was horrible to work with. That's actually news.

 

[Melhadf]

As always, only sell at what you think your game is worth. If you put it on sale then you are choosing that price, and any issues are with you for picking it. If you put your game in a bundle/PSPlus/GamePass then you are further devaluing your work to a price point that you are willing to accept. Customers don't set the price, we never have. So don't complain when you decide to lower your price below a point you are happy with.

New games are expensive, but I probably buy more at full price due to playing the "devalued" versions of a studios back catalogue than I have before.

 

[Deleted member 10612]

Again, you are not reading the words I am actually writing.

Either start doing so or bother someone else with your inane corporate apologetics.

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That's also a way to end a discussion.

 

[Zachary_Games]

Project leads for video game development really need to broaden their launch models.

Days Gone should have been reduced in scope once it entered into development issues. Bend tried to bite off more than they could chew. I say this as a huge fan of the game and believer in Days Gone as an underrated gem, IMO.

However, there should be no hesitation in releasing games as "episodic" content. By far the most boring section of Days Gone is the first location. If I was project lead, I would have pushed for Bend to focus development on the first 1/3rd of the game. Devote all of the studios resources into crafting a special experience within the first available map. Write a more tightly crafted narrative around the characters introduced, while hinting at the broader narrative scope. Create better gameplay encounters and refine the gameplay mechanics so they would scale easily in future development. Then release that section of the game as episode 1 at say $30.

An alternate universe where Days Gone released as three episodic style games, all tightly crafted, bug free, better paced and priced at $30 would be interesting. Eventually, the full game could be rereleased at full price with challenge mode as a new bonus.

 

[Friskykillface]

I paid $20 for it on Black Friday
I'm not fucking rich to buy everything day one lol
This guy talks like we need to support a billion dollar company in Sony but paying for everything full price day 1

new IPs in general are a "wait and see how it reviews/goes on sale" for a lot of people tbh

 

[nib95]

Honestly, what terrifies me the most about any publisher giving Metacritic scores so much power and influence is that most of the times the kind of games that get the biggest scores from critics are basically the artistic equivalent of Marvel movies.

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I don't think that's true at all tbh. A high meta score isn't specific to any particular genre of game, see Ori and the Will of Whisps, Dreams, Astrobot, Shadow of the Colossus, Persona 5, Forza Horizon 4, Hades and so on.

Likewise, being a Marvel esque blockbuster far from guarantees you'll review well, see Anthem, Avengers, Shadow of the Tomb Raider, The Order 1886, Mafia III, Mad Max, Days Gone, Ryse, Quantum Break, Fallout 76 etc. In-fact the overwhelming number of these big AAAA games, do not actually review exceptionally well. It's only a rare few that do.

 

[Servbot24]

Reading the reviews and watching footage post launch gives you like 100% more understanding of if the games would appeal to you versus "arbitrary scores that aren't even using the median as a reference point, but the easily influenced average" as a point of determination.

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So you're happy that data set A exists, and mad that data set B exists. You should be happy the more data we have.

Only the quantifiable dataset is partificularly useful to a corporation. Looking at a trailer to see if something strikes your interest is good for you, but it is not quantifiable data.

Even if these decsions were based on fan reaction to trailers - fan trailer reaction for Days Gone was bad anyways. So no matter what metric you use, investment in Days Gone is probably a bad idea (and was from the beginning).

 

[Nola]

I think the lede is getting buried here.

He basically says he was fired because he was horrible to work with. That's actually news.

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Basically someone combed what was a in context, a cringe interview due to Jaffe, who spent an hour plus trying to goad this developer into trashing Sony, but avoided it, then eventually made a roundabout criticism in a misdirected way but to me the real story is that the guy is a bit of a bad boss and Sony has some very shortsighted metrics for judging success and failure at their company, separate from whether Days Gone was worth keeping going.

But this clickbait author found the snippet that would make consumers and haters of the game rally and give them clicks.

 

[JasonV]

There's a reason consumers tend to wait for game launches...

Because they are often broken as fuck on release.

 

[Gobias-Ind]

Was hoping the creator of the game saying "stop whining about a sequel to a game that didn't receive the requisite support" would've shut people up but nooooooo.

Also, the overlap between people going "yikes" at the notion that Sony cares about critical reception and the people who go "what's that metacritic 👀" on the launch day of any major release, even those they have 0 interest in playing is 105%. Bomba!