DCU Era |OT3| Of Gods and Monsters

broncobuster · Aug 6, 2021

TSS was alright. Of the Harley movies, BoP is my favorite. But I liked how she's sort of incidental compared to the other two. re: Gunn's other comic stuff, def better than GOTG2 but still think GOTG1 is the most fun.

So far I've enjoyed all comic movies I've seen this year, which hasn't happened in a while. JL was top, but Black Widow was a real surprise (I know I'm the odd on for liking it). Leaning BW for number two, toss up with TSS. Venom 2 looks fun. Eternals is one of the strongest directors attached to these things. I'm probably forgetting other stuff this year. I still need to see Snake Eyes whenever it's up to rent. If Morbius is this year, the trailer didn't seem like my thing.

One thing I'll say about TSS, not really negative or positive, is how long it felt. I think it's more how stop and start it was. Super high energy, almost Scott Pilgrim like, then slows way down. I don't feel like I was bored with it, like I was watching F9 recently. But there was a point I checked the time and it was only an hour in.

admataY · Aug 6, 2021

Just back from 2squad2suicide , not gonna surprise anyone here to learn its great , some of the best fun I had in the movies for some time . It is just big dumb fun , movie is completely unapologetic about how silly the whole thing is .
And as one might expect from a Gunn movie, the character work really carry the movie, I found all of them interesting or endearing in different ways.
Hell, even Flag who was boring and bone dry in the first movie found a personality and ton of charm in this one .

Smokey_Run · Aug 6, 2021

Are there any scenes during the credits?

broncobuster · Aug 6, 2021

Don't know if it needs to be tagged because it's an old idea and not the current version. And I doubt anyone expected it as twist.

Supposedly an early idea Gunn had was the Suicide Squad vs Superman, which happens to be the setup for the Suicide Squad game. Who knows how far that idea went or if conversations were had. But yeah, funny coincidence.

Smokey_Run said:
Are there any scenes during the credits?

Yeah. Mid (well, right at the start) credits and post credits.

admataY · Aug 6, 2021

Smokey_Run said:
Are there any scenes during the credits?

Yes , but honestly it is skipable if yout in a hurry to leave .

Smokey_Run · Aug 6, 2021

broncobuster said:
Yeah. Mid (well, right at the start) credits and post credits.

Thanks. Gonna head out to the local theater to show them support instead of just watching on Max.

broncobuster · Aug 6, 2021

admataY said:
Yes , but honestly it is skipable if yout in a hurry to leave .

I'll co-sign this and say just watch the end credits one on Max if you can. Credits are pretty long and who knows how long people want to spend in theaters these days.

J_Viper · Aug 6, 2021

TSS…I respect Gunn for going "out there", but it really didn't work for me

The cast is great all around, and there are many individual pieces that work, such as Harley's breakout, but it kinda lost me in the final act.

The whole Starro scenario was a bit too much for me. I get it, that whole sequence was intended to be bizarre, but I suppose I bounce off of that thing completely, especially for going on so long.

Maybe I'm crazy, maybe I'm truly the Joker here, but I may have preferred the first one…..

Tabby · Aug 6, 2021

J_Viper said:
TSS…I respect Gunn for going "out there", but it really didn't work for me

The cast is great all around, and there are many individual pieces that work, such as Harley's breakout, but it kinda lost me in the final act.

The whole Starro scenario was a bit too much for me. I get it, that whole sequence was intended to be bizarre, but I suppose I bounce off of that thing completely, especially for going on so long.

Maybe I'm crazy, maybe I'm truly the Joker here, but I may have preferred the first one…..

Nah you're not alone. I think they're about on par for me. To be fair, I was never a huge fan of GoTG fan so I don't think I was expecting much from this either.

This movie actually just has me really curious about the Ayer Cut.

Chained Prometheus · Aug 6, 2021

Meanwhile, I think The Suicide Squad is very safely the top DCEU film for me. I loved the hell out of this movie and how much it's had me thinking back to different parts after the viewing.

KDash · Aug 7, 2021

The Suicide Squad was great.

J_Viper · Aug 7, 2021

Tabby said:
This movie actually just has me really curious about the Ayer Cut.

It is quite interesting comparing Gunn's film and the previous film.

The former is 1000% a blank check, "do whatever the hell you want" type of film, while the former is very much the opposite.

I don't know, so many individual scenes in TSS work, but the final act was just so not my thing.

I'm very curious to know how this goes down with general audiences.

NinjaDBL · Aug 7, 2021

Bleh, TSS got a B+ Cinemascore.

Feels like audiences are more harsh towards DC films.

Dysun · Aug 7, 2021

It was fun, but its hard to give a shit about any of the characters. Just never been a big fan of the IP in general

Boxy Brown · Aug 7, 2021

Idk how anyone can prefer the original SS. Rewatching it to refresh my memory, and it's just so clumsily constructed. There some okay pieces, but it's surrounded by a mound of shit. None of the emotional beats work because they're set up so poorly. And I'm finding Killer Crock's character very offensive if that's suppose to be a black guy.

Just rewatched Birds of Prey. Still a fucking excellent kick ass film. Audiences really failed this film.

Firemind · Aug 7, 2021

Dysun said:
It was fun, but its hard to give a shit about any of the characters. Just never been a big fan of the IP in general

I'll always think Gunn not casting Bautista as Bane and making him the main lead was a missed opportunity.

Fucking Snyder!

J_Viper · Aug 7, 2021

Boxy Brown said:
Idk how anyone can prefer the original SS. Rewatching it to refresh my memory, and it's just so clumsily constructed. There some okay pieces, but it's surrounded by a mound of shit. None of the emotional beats work because they're set up so poorly. And I'm finding Killer Crock's character very offensive if that's suppose to be a black guy.

Just rewatched Birds of Prey. Still a fucking excellent kick ass film. Audiences really failed this film.

I think with time I'll come to appreciate TSS more and declare it the better film, the writing alone is certainly superior, but I've always had a strange soft spot for the first SS, despite knowing full well that it is trash.

For the wrong reason, SS1 really moves at lightning speed, compared to the start and stop pacing of TSS. I actually prefer the "grimy" look of Ayer's film, though Gunn's looks quite nice as well, especially coming off of how bad Black Widow looks at times.

Sleeping over it, I am starting to come around to the positives of TSS, it really is mainly the final encounter that really got too bizarre for me.

Had the film ended with the battle over the "hard drive" I think I would have ultimately walked away more much satisfied.

Side note, Margot is GREAT here. I always knew it was the writing holding her back in the last time films, and Gunn gives her the material to shine.

broncobuster · Aug 7, 2021

Actually watched a few scenes from the first as a reminder, and def prefer TSS, but there were funnier moments in the first. Really down to Will Smith doing ad lib jokes versus the more Reddit-y humor of TSS. Only one or two scenes tho. Like the gun range bit with Deadshot and Flagg. The actual written jokes of original SS were super rough and awkward.

With TSS, I think the issue is Gunn does set up and punchline, and punchline, and punchline. Compare it to Shazam, which is genuinely hilarious, it's not as predictable or repetitive. tbf Shazam is by far the funniest modern comic movie.

Also, the needle drops in 2016 Suicide Squad might've been the worst and most ill placed I've seen in a movie. We more or less have the picture of what went down with a trailer studio editing the movie. But jeez. I don't use the word cringe lightly. When Eminem's Without Me comes on during the suit up scene, kinda gritted my teeth.

edit: should say, while Peacemaker was whatever in the movie, Jody Hill directing episodes of the show is exciting. You can sort of see how Peacemaker could fit his sense of humor and style.

NinjaDBL · Aug 7, 2021

Man, it stinks that DC suffers from brand loyalty (unless you're Batman.)

Hopefully TSS did great on HBO Max.

Gravity Insanity · Aug 7, 2021

A few weeks until Shazam 2 wraps up.

Loxley · Aug 7, 2021

Really enjoyed TSS. Ratcatcher was definitely the highlight for me.

Razgriz-Specter · Aug 7, 2021

Boxy Brown said:
Idk how anyone can prefer the original SS. Rewatching it to refresh my memory, and it's just so clumsily constructed. There some okay pieces, but it's surrounded by a mound of shit. None of the emotional beats work because they're set up so poorly. And I'm finding Killer Crock's character very offensive if that's suppose to be a black guy.

Just rewatched Birds of Prey. Still a fucking excellent kick ass film. Audiences really failed this film.

TSS is definitely a better movie but I felt they were about as enjoyable as each other(about average enjoyment)
SS was a bad movie but had potential
TSS had some great bits but the package didn't come together.

I generally hate the complaint elsewhere but TSS doesn't feel fun enough overall.
Personally I felt it was alot of mean spirited stuff that just didn't work in this case personally.
The movie relied heavily on shock kills and gore but the kills

were all expected and heavily talked about for forever, they were all extremely telegraphed. Boomerang was literally the only real surprise and it was a bad one

Weirdly I was expecting something more GotG in tone and yet it kinda felt like the same tone as the original which was an issue with that movie.
The whole movie felt like a repeat of the original situation,
Go in expecting something light based on the trailer or director's other work(also the goofy costumes)..
Get something with a darker inconsistent tone.

I also didn't enjoy Harley at all in this compared to her last 2 appearances.
Though that might just be Harley in general,
She wears out her appearances in different media quickly besides maybe in animation.
Tired of her in movies now, tired of her in the comics, Arkham kinda ran her into the ground as well by Knight.

IDK I just wasn't a fan of either

Boxy Brown · Aug 7, 2021

Razgriz-Specter said:
TSS is definitely a better movie but I felt they were about as enjoyable as each other(about average enjoyment)
SS was a bad movie but had potential
TSS had some great bits but the package didn't come together.

I generally hate the complaint elsewhere but TSS doesn't feel fun enough overall.
Personally I felt it was alot of mean spirited stuff that just didn't work in this case personally.
The movie relied heavily on shock kills and gore but the kills

were all expected and heavily talked about for forever, they were all extremely telegraphed. Boomerang was literally the only real surprise and it was a bad one

Weirdly I was expecting something more GotG in tone and yet it kinda felt like the same tone as the original which was an issue with that movie.
The whole movie felt like a repeat of the original situation,
Go in expecting something light based on the trailer or director's other work(also the goofy costumes)..
Get something with a darker inconsistent tone.

IDK I just wasn't a fan of either

We'll, I'm seeing it later today so I'll share my thoughts.

DeadlyVenom · Aug 7, 2021

Boomer and Flagg dying didn't feel good. Especially Boomer. It felt like an attempt at shock and I was just shocked that he was completely wasted. Flagg doesn't feel good after his death basically being a step in the set up for Peacemaker's show. I am sure it is not the case but it felt like Gunn breaking the old toys so he could just play with his new ones.

Overall, it was a well put together movie. I will likely see it again, which is more than I can say for the first one. But, I didn't come out of it as enamored as everyone else.

Wingfan19 · Aug 7, 2021

Tanked at the box office, feels bad man. Knew it wasn't gonna hit those numbers. No clue how these studios can keep making 200+ mil movies and expect to get profits anymore so they can make the next one. Feel bad for Gun and his crew. The HBO Max subs can't possibly offset the cost of this especially since ATT is giving them out like candy.

JayCB64 · Aug 7, 2021

From what's been said it sounds like Gunn will be back to do something else with DC, so at least it looks like regardless of the blunter at the box office the positive reception from fans and audiences has taught WB something.

We (finally) have a quiet Sunday tomorrow so if all goes to plan we'll be watching then - I can't wait.

broncobuster · Aug 7, 2021

Tangentially related, Jungle Cruise was fun. Most entertaining Rock movie in a couple years. I liked Collet-Serra's Liam Neeson movies but they're all super serious B movies. If this is his first blockbuster four quadrant movie, I think it bodes well for Black Adam.

NinjaDBL said:
Man, it stinks that DC suffers from brand loyalty (unless you're Batman.)

Hopefully TSS did great on HBO Max.

In what sense? I think the failure of WB's DC management compared to Marvel is a failure to cultivate the brand loyalty. So a Shazam under Marvel would've played closer to an Ant-Man. And they're so stop and start with these things. Shazam coming after Aquaman should've helped it. I dunno

I've seen some spin that the reception of previous movies hurt it. But Wonder Woman and Aquaman did super well despite following the original Suicide Squad and JL 2017. Seeing TSS scored B+, same as the first, among general audiences. Yeah. I dunno if it's the poor marketing or people weren't feeling it. Again, I think it plays well to Reddit-y (and by extension here) crowd. That doesn't always translate to a wider audience

Penguin · Aug 7, 2021

I do think DC needs to start tying the movies together

I feel like need to mandate a stinger or something that hypes the next movie

As pointed out before, you get runaway success with Wonder Woman Aquaman and joker

Then so so performers in between with Shazam, Birds of Prey and now The Suicide Squad

MHWilliams · Aug 7, 2021

Wingfan19 said:
No clue how these studios can keep making 200+ mil movies and expect to get profits anymore so they can make the next one.

They won't be able to. Assuming that the box office is what it is now, those budgets are going to drop a great deal.

The problem is they won't drop until films that are started next year. Aquaman 2 is in production now. The first's budget was $160-200 million. The second won't be cheaper. Now post A2 for DC and probably Ant-Man 3 for Marvel, things might get cheaper.

broncobuster · Aug 7, 2021

Penguin said:
I do think DC needs to start tying the movies together

I feel like need to mandate a stinger or something that hypes the next movie

As pointed out before, you get runaway success with Wonder Woman Aquaman and joker

Then so so performers in between with Shazam, Birds of Prey and now The Suicide Squad

There are a couple quotes going around about how Gunn was unaware of BoP while writing TSS. And Warners people were cool with recasting Harley and Waller if Gunn wanted it. Like, left hand is not talking to the right hand here.

It's easy to see how, under Marvel, you would've had a stinger in BoP for TSS.

Wingfan19 · Aug 7, 2021

broncobuster said:
It's easy to see how, under Marvel, you would've had a stinger in BoP for TSS.

Yep, this is what I felt was missing for this movie. Something to connect it to the bigger DCEU going forward or at least more of a past connection beyond Waller mentioning Superman and a nod between Harley and Flag.

Smokey_Run · Aug 7, 2021

COVID is exploding again. My theater was dead. I'm not just talking about a single screening for Suicide Squad, I'm talking about the entire theater. There were two cars in the parking lot when I pulled in at 6:45 for a 7:00 showing. I sat in the parking lot for 10 minutes and nobody else showed up. So I left and went home.

VanWinkle · Aug 7, 2021

Wingfan19 said:
Yep, this is what I felt was missing for this movie. Something to connect it to the bigger DCEU going forward or at least more of a past connection beyond Waller mentioning Superman and a nod between Harley and Flag.

The line needs a vision from someone who is both a good filmmaker and loves DC comics.

broncobuster · Aug 8, 2021

I don't think that needs to be one person. And people are always so quick to try and find a savior or "Feige" for DC. Be it Jenkins, Wan, Johns, Gunn, Snyder, Nolan, etc. even way back when things were coming together, it was a team and collaboration. But Inevitably the Warners leadership panics and screws things up. There's a whole dynamic at Warners that's a mess, with DC projects and otherwise.

And with Gunn, the support is all down to the success he had with Marvel and wanting to mimic it. Because the extent of the suits' vision. And for better or worse, they'll support him. Numbers will be goosed and whatnot. But at a point they need to get that the path to success isn't only Marvel's way. The whole attitude about Joker and not realizing what they had is just amazing.

Again, that's what's exciting about Reeves holding out to mitigate the issues of that system. And the New Line stuff is semi inoculated (Shazam, Black Adam).

Boxy Brown · Aug 8, 2021

TSS is kino. It and BoP might deadass be my favorite DC films.

broncobuster · Aug 8, 2021

Sounds like Affleck is shooting his Flash scenes next month. I heard the movie was gonna have a long shoot. Started in April, probably not wrapping in September either.

Tamanon · Aug 8, 2021

I still need to catch BoP, but I think my current DCEU top 5 is:

Shazam
The Suicide Squad
Wonder Woman
Aquaman
WW84

I did enjoy Man of Steel, but I think I just like Gadot's WW more.

broncobuster · Aug 8, 2021

Ranking is pretty difficult. WW and Shazam are in that top tier for me, and because I'm arbitrarily limiting it to three, it's a toss up between BvS and JL. Or if it's five I'll keep both and toss Birds of Prey in there. I keep meaning to rewatch Aquaman and end up watching something else. Rarely re-watch stuff I'm so-so on, but seeing how many people in the community love it makes me want to re-evaluate it.

I don't think I dislike any of them, or any marvel or other comic movies. If I did, it's a waste to obsessed of it. Actually re-watched Green Lantern not long ago for the 10th anniversary and it's honestly fine. Funny how Angela Bassett is Waller in it. She's absolutely a great actress, but that was a miss. Maybe with the exception of getting CCH Pounder, Viola Davis is a damn near perfect pick as Waller. I think some people wanted Oprah way back when.

Strelok · Aug 8, 2021

Man of Steel
ZS Justice League
Wonder woman
Aquaman
Shazam
And I genuinely think the only great one is Man of steel, the best superhero movie of all time. Justice League could be up there, but it's too long, so difficult to rewatch, haven't watched TSS yet though.

LetalisAmare · Aug 8, 2021

Squad was fantastic. Enjoyed it more than any of his other flicks.

Top 3

ZS:JL
Aquaman
The Sucide Squad

Dysun · Aug 8, 2021

Rankings are fun.

Great: Man of Steel, Wonder Woman, Aquaman
Good: ZS Justice League, Shazam, The Suicide Squad
Mediocre: Batman v Superman, WW84
Bad: Birds of Prey, Suicide Squad

I'm tempted to rank BvS higher

J_Viper · Aug 8, 2021

BvS
ZSJL
Shazam
WW
MoS
Aquaman
TSS
Skuad
BoP
WW84

Edit: I totally forgot about Aquaman

tim1138 · Aug 8, 2021

Suicide Squad was really good, I don't think I have any complaints. When's the Ratcatcher 2/King Shark buddy movie though

Deleted member 10560 · Aug 8, 2021

It's going to be really difficult to ever top ZSJL, for me. Shazam and The Suicide Squad could be interchangeable. I really enjoy those two about the same, which I love. Auquaman and WW are right behind with SS falling behind. The last two are embarrassing attempts to Marvelize. Green Lantern is there for emphasis on how disappointing the last two really are. Lol.

ZSJL
MoS
BvS
Shazam
The Suicide Squad '21
Auquaman
WW
Suicide Squad
Green Lantern
WW84
BoP

J_Viper · Aug 8, 2021

Let us remember a simpler time

Funny how B Cooper, Timberlake, and Leto were all up for this role.

All three of these guys owe RR a nice steak dinner for taking this bullet.

JayCB64 · Aug 8, 2021

The Suicide Squad was great stuff, definitely the best thing that DC has done for the DCEU so far by a fair margin. More films like this and Shazam and DC are back on track imo.

Tabby · Aug 8, 2021

Since we're doing rankings:

ZSJL

Man of Steel
Aquaman
BvS
Wonder Woman

BoP

WW84
Suicide Squad
The Suicide Squad
Shazam

JayCB64 · Aug 8, 2021

Great/Good

The Suicide Squad
Shazam
Wonder Woman

Middling/Disappointing
Birds of Prey
Aquaman

Bad/Barely Watchable
Everything else

Kill Me
Batman v Superman

Kill Me But Slower
Batman v Superman extended edition

(I've not seen Snyder's JL so that's excluded)

DeadlyVenom · Aug 8, 2021

BvS
ZSJL
WW
Shazam
The Suicide Squad
Man of Steel
Aquaman
Suicide Squad
WW84

Haven't seen BoP

J_Viper · Aug 8, 2021

JayCB said:
(I've not seen Snyder's JL so that's excluded)

DCU Era |OT3| Of Gods and Monsters

Prophet of Truth

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The Mushroom Kingdom Knight

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One Winged Slayer