Well, tangentially related I think, the super series is suppose to be the "smooth transition to Lovelace", whatever that means remains to be scene.
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desktop pc's have always been able to emulate consoles towards the end of that consoles generation, this doesn't make pc competitive with console, this has been going on for years it hasn't changed anything. Everyone is acting like this is something new
once the ps5 is 4-5 years old they will have emulators for it too, I guess ps5 better watch out for pc then huh
when switch 2 comes out it will be 4-5 years before emulators work well for it
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I didn't understand too. Given it's a new die, maybe they did some changes to the Ampere arch?(AKA: Implementing some Lovelace changes in this new die? I don't know how feasible that would be.). But yeah, such a cryptic message.
No, it almost certainly wouldn't mean starting over from a custom library. You really think the company behind Proton wouldn't invest in x86 emulation?
You're missing the point. You can't play those portably.
The Steam library has PLENTY of games that are not on Nintendo Switch, in fact more than Nintendo, and can most definitely compete with the exclusive games on the Switch because it plays portably. That is what the Steam Deck is for. Maybe not this version but give it time and the Steam Deck can absolutely take market share from Nintendo. The idea is playing portably and Steam Deck has more games than Switch that does that.
I know I can't play some of them portably but i still don't need the steam deck to play them
how many people already have access to these games that want to play them portably? I'm betting not many
point is I bet there's a lot more people that want to play Zelda and animal crossing than there is that want to play games portably that they already have access to
this is the same thing that has been happening to consoles and PCs for the last 30 years just in a different form
If your talking about how the device will lean heavily on its community for work arounds and support...then I say the Steam Deck is still aiming at a different market, one that is geared towards tinkerers.
It remind me of the PlayDate, in fact: Having a device completely open allowing for anyone to write for it. As a matter of fact, I'm pretty sure some people are thinking about uninstalling the built-in Steam-OS already and installing their own special custom OS.
There's still a segment of the population who simply want things to work out of the box. With the Switch, games released on it will run already tuned for the hardware's spec, without any need of further tweaking. The Deck essentially leaves the porting buisness at the hands of the user/consumer, and if they want to get the most optimal experience for their Deck, they have to spend a considerable amount of time tweaking the games and settings, downloading patches, mods, work arounds...time that could've been spent, well, playing with the game instead.
I know, because I've done a lot of this on my Linux machine.
I don't think we should discount that these devices are in competition with each other, there's always going to be some overlap when it comes to what occupies gamers time. The appeal of the Switch even when it has come to these impossible ports or games that are also on PC is to have the ability to game away from your TV/ monitor and have cross save functionality on the go. So the Steam Deck is bringing another option to this avenue of where the Switch has been the dominant choice for many (especially if there's an easy avenue to turn this into a dedicated Gamepass portable).
Again I feel like in the grand scope of things (hardware selling wise) the Switch is vastly in another league, but all it needs to do in its first iteration is chip away at the public perception of what's available tech wise. If Gamepass ends up being an option on Steam like a specific curating of Microsoft published games with discounts for purchased games through Steam, then it just makes the value of this Steam device more diverse...
How many times is this going to happen? First it was the wonder boy, then the neo geo, then the psp then vita etc
power has never mattered 1 time with handhelds, people keep saying the same thing everytime some new handheld came out with a lot of power
people buy nintendo consoles for exclusive Nintendo games, always have always will
I thought in reference to the 30 super series that Kopite7kimi said these cards are going to be more power hungry along with different memory set-up. It will be interesting to see what the final products look like though, since it's a struggle already to meet the demand for the current cards.
Compleyely disagree. The technology to play your PC games portably comfortably has never existed before. This is a whole new era and the market has enormous potential. Ask the millions of PC gamers all over the world if they would want to play their games portably over Mario and I bet it would be closer than you think or more. There are many people who would love to play GTAV Online, Half Life 3, Left 4 Dead, Dead By DayLight, The Forest, etc portably over Zelda. The PC market is massive. People would love to play those games portably over a Mario Kart if they can when it is convenient. The technology just has never existed to make it happen without looking like crap until now. This is definitely a threat to Nintendo in the years to come.
Pc market is massive, the portable pc market is not, 90% of that pc market is already happy playing these games on their desktop
I'm not so sure about that, and I think that was someone else that said LLace will be really power hungry, and compared to RDNA3 but I could be remembering it wrong.
Because there is none. The technology has never existed for a portable PC market until now. Valve are innovators and have a history of breaking barriers. There going to create the industry.
You are right that power has never mattered with handheld "only" devices, but the Switch, Steam Deck and (probably the Apple device that's most likely on the way) are advertising themselves as do it all machines.
This is where the performance metric comes into play because that hybrid nature of taking your full console quality games on the go has been realized and now people want to see the evolution of that manifested. I went from playing my Switch primarily in handheld to only playing docked because of the sacrifices that happen to the handheld modes in many games.
Power has never mattered for game sales or console sales, guess it's going to take another 30 years for people to realize it
It's a niche market as far as I know, but it already does exist. This isn't the first portable handheld gaming PC.
Understand no one here thinks the Switch has sold because of power, because it's not that impressive on that front period... What it has done though is provided the most powerful dedicated portable gaming only hardware that we've known to date that supports modern graphics architecture and game development engines to bring similar games that are on the current consoles.
So again no one is saying a new more power device is going to sink Nintendo's ship, but all Nintendo has is this current device and they can't afford to be made seem like they are selling an inferior product out of its price scale. I was around when Wii was hot and then not and it was mostly because Nintendo were dragging their feet on how to evolve the product further (hence WiiU was their best answer)...
The "handheld PC" market is at least slightly older than the Switch, with the first GPD Win releasing in 2016.
Handheld PCs exist ever since the early 2000. Handheld Gaming PC has existed since 2012 with the Razer Edge. It's not anything new. If anything, Switch has made people/companies re-engage with the form-factor.
The first Apple PCs, the first Sony walkmans were niche markets too until the tech improved. As I've said, the technology hasn't existed for a proper handheld gaming PC yet and is constantly improving and its market will too. Valve can do it. They have a vision. The best companies do.
I have to say I heavily disagree with this sentiment. The main appeal of the Switch is being able to play big games that traditionally required a home console on the go. Of course, Nintendo's first party offerings are found nowhere else and will always be the main driver of the sales..same with Sony/Microsoft and their offerings but the hybrid nature of the console is highly appealing. Valve, regardless of the OS and the specific manner in which it operates, is also putting out hardware that can do the same. Regardless of it starting off as a niche thing, by default, they are competing in Nintendo's territory. Being able to play modern, big games on the go and also dock the console on a screen for home console play. Both are the same concept. In this case, Valve's big thing is being able to play nearly all PC games on the go on this thing, while Nintendo is only offering their first party selection and a handful of impossible ports. As for the battery life, let us not forget the OG Switch had a similar battery life to this Valve machine, and the Deck packs a punch.
To be completely honest, if this little machine kicks off and is successful, the iterations that follow should catch Nintendo's attention a little bit. No one will be able to offer their first party experiences, but this is a great alternative to those who seek a little bit more variety. Competition is good and healthy, I've always felt like Nintendo could use a little fire on their ass in that sense to push the envelope further.
But fair enough, this is a topic for another thread not this one I suppose.
Also, did the OLED model officially price drop? I wonder why.
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Probably an error at Walmart's part, considering that the white variant of the OLED model doesn't have a price drop, and given there's also a price drop for Metroid Dread: Special Edition.
No... Sony didn't put their full marketing muscle and developers behind Vita, it's not the same!
Also the gimmick of Switch going from dock and undocked was easily communicated to the average gamer in commercials. Being able to just save and suspend whatever game you are playing and then pick back up exactly where you left off is why many gamers (that left gaming said oh I have time to game like that, I can fit that into my busy schedule without being locked to a television).
Many factors are contributing to why the Switch is so successful, but as we saw with the WiiU it isn't just Nintendo games alone that achieved this.
Nintendo's base has always been split between their handhelds and consoles, even though Wii U didn't sell well they were still buying the 3ds for Nintendo games
Also what's up with Walmart reducing the OLED Red/Blue Switch orders to $300?
That definitely has to be a major error for certain...
Someone seemingly convinced someone at Walmart to price match it with the existing Switch, which their system honored for all customers.
Same with someone getting them to price match the collector's edition of Metroid Dread with the regular.
This argument was done ad-naseum during the PSP days and to a certain extent during the initial Vita days.
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I imagine like NineTailSage has mentioned, it has to do with setting people's expectations about the power consumption of consumer Lovelace GPUs, considering greymon55 (apparently the alternative account of Broly_X1) has apparently heard about the power consumption of consumer Lovelace GPUs being very high, especially compared to consumer RDNA 3 GPUs, although the power consumption of consumer RDNA 3 GPUs will also be very high.
this reads like Nvidia wants Lovelace to look like a massive improvement in power consumption by bumping up Ampere high
This to me is the primary reason the Switch exists and why those same gamers who previously bought Nintendo handhelds and consoles are now just buying multiple Switch devices. The Switch has probably already outsold the 3ds and WiiU combined and continues to grow at a brisk pace.
I've stated before that when Nintendo has a concept that is fully fledged out (Wii/DS/Switch) they are second to none in execution. Where they tend to fail every time is in the transition into whatever comes next and to this day they haven't had success without losing market share.
I definitely give Sony props for this because even if they don't have stellar software launch years every time, they transition very well.
PSP was the last real competition Nintendo had in the mobile gaming space and those early days were looking very rough for the DS... It wasn't until the DS Lite came around that things really turned around and that was mostly because Nintendo was going extra hard after the casual gamers.
I think with Vita people just expected since Sony were great with transitioning it would apply in the handheld space as well and didn't think they would leave it to die.
Sony transitions well because they keep making the same thing over and over, Nintendo try's new things which is why some consoles boom and others do average
sometimes trying something new causes you to win a console generation, like the Wii, DS, and now probably switch too
while other times trying new things can cause them to lose a generation
I find that to be dishonest but it's a big company so dishonesty isn't surprising to me.
In comparison to the SteamDeck, it is interesting to note that games that are ported over and runs well on the Switch may actually look better on the OLED model in portable mode compared to that system. This would be due to them being at a similar resolution but the OLED Switch model having the superior screen.
Steam Deck is a cool little device, underpowered definitely, I'd even argue that it is more underpowered today than Switch was 5 years ago, and it won't even be in most people's hands for about a year still.
The biggest reason why it won't be a competitor for the Switch, is because the Switch will sell between 50x-100x as many units per year. Valve is only selling the device via its website, and it won't really be possible to break out and be sold in stores for at least 2 or 3 years, by that point the next version of it will probably be on the market, and with 5nm it will achieve much closer to Xbox series X performance.
I'd actually argue that the steam Deck is a competitor to PS5 adoption if it could actually sell. The Switch isn't selling drastic numbers to people interested in 3rd party AAA games, it is selling first to people interested in first party Nintendo software, that is why it has so many first party titles that have sold 20M units or more. While Switch emulation should be possible on the steam Deck, the niche of a niche of a niche market that exists in that use case is irrelevant to the idea that these products compete. The market won't be buying Steam Deck for its ability to emulation Nintendo software, but some will buy it for its ability to play Sony and Microsoft games that are now being ported to the PC. Microsoft just sees these as Game Pass subs and there is also free Epic store games that you can get in this device weekly, but people interested in first party Sony games who buy this and are willing to wait, will be one less person buying into Playstation's ecosystem.
Again though, it would be amazing if they could reach more than 2 million units sold a year via their website, so competition is not a realistic adjective of steam Deck gen 1, it has to make it into PC stores as a $399 device, and if it can get inside Gamestop with a display and sell there for $399, especially the "5nm" model that would succeed this version, would definitely have a real chance to compete as a gaming platform, but that is 2 to 3 years off in the best case scenarios imo.
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Anyone who thinks they can light a fire under Nintendo ass with the existence of Steam deck is wrong.
Nintendo probably doesn't care.
If Nintendo cares at all, it will be when Valve advertises the steam deck for sale to the mass market, allowing them to manufacture and distribute 10-20 million more units per year.
By then Sony and MS will feel threatened by Valve lol.
Nintendo probably doesn't care.
If Nintendo cares at all, it will be when Valve advertises the steam deck for sale to the mass market, allowing them to manufacture and distribute 10-20 million more units per year.
By then Sony and MS will feel threatened by Valve lol.
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Nintendo just came out and refuted Bloomberg's report that the OLED model is more profitable than the OG model:
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The second tweet seems like a standard blurb tbh, at most it might mean they are refuting a current FY release I think.
People forget that Nintendo doesn't have to be in the high-spec race, nor do they "directly compete" with others.
Steam Deck enetering the market means very little to them. I'm sure they're probably going to introduce a successor along with a brand new concept that once again differentiates itself with other platforms. It's not just about 1st party titles as well, but how it's being played.
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Underpowered relative to what though? The only real mainstream comparable it has is the Switch or more niche things like the GPD Win and it blows all those away.
I think the vaunted "Switch Dane" is also 2 years off as well.
Underpowered compared to what? Other similar devices are double the price and essentially weaker. It's also likely more capable of running games at its target resolution compared to the Switch, don't forget that games like Xenoblade 2 were under 500p. BOTW also dynamically went under 720p and fell under 30 fps.
The problem with 2 years out is that it's too late for much of anything, and also leaves a wide-open gap for leaks.
Devkits are out there, meaning they have a hardware target.
We know the codename, the other codename, and the Architecture, and what it's derived from.
And we know they intend to hit Tape-Out of the SoC late this year or early next year based on Kopite's comments.
so 2023 for a product based on an SoC taped out in 2021/Early 2022 is way too fucking late, especially as Developers would likely transition to Hardware Devkits shortly after tape-out.
And if it does come out in 2023 for some reason, it'd be a bit stupid on NVIDIA's part as they are the ones designing and calling for production of the SoC (As they themselves can use it in their products along with Nintendo's).
So if it's coming out in 2023, then it likely would run on Samsung 5nm which would be a sort of plus, but then it runs into the problem where the SoC can't be die-shrunk much for a Lite-Model and they'd have to build something from scratch again which would only up costs even more.
Taping out in 2021/2022 with a release in 2022, based on everything we know is the absolute best business sense as it opens up that 5nm version as a potential version for a Switch 2/Plus Lite in 2023.
if the base model comes in 2023, then it will be another 2+ years until a new model after that which if Nintendo is going the iterative route like the existence of the T239/Dane suggests, would be sort of self-defeating in prospect.
Having a die-shrunk version in 2023 though effectively gives NVIDIA and Nintendo a buffer-year to finish the pre-dev of the next SoC (Likely running either A720's or something custom from NVIDIA if they succeed at buying ARM by then, with a Samsung 3nm or TSCM 3nm version of Lovelace's Successor Arch).
It feels like there's a lot of smoke on the Dane fire for it to be two years off. I think it's a 2022 product.
There is no indication of an "iterative" route, that's just a fantasy some people cling to with not a lot on that hot dog at this point. The Switch is almost 5 full years old now, there is no indication of an iterative game plan here whatsoever, there's been no significant changes to the actual Switch hardware outside of a die shrink.
The two actual hardware "redesigns" are not even anything all that mind blowing relative to the speculation. You have your standard Nintendo Lite/Mini model and you have a XL screen model, fairly bland.
A new hardware that's 6-7 years into a product cycle that is a generational leap hardware wise is not an indication of a new iterative product cycle, that's the same product cycle that's existed in the game business for decades now.
I think you're kind of setting up a bunch of arbitrary benchmarks that don't even exist. Switch Dane coming in 2023 would be a completely normal, standard time frame for when a significant hardware upgrade should arrive.
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One potential problem is that DUV lithography, which is used in all of Samsung's 8 nm (8LPP, 8LPU, 8N) process nodes, is not compatible with EUV lithography, which is used in all of Samsung's 5 nm (5LPE, 5LPP) process nodes. So unless for some reason, Nvidia's using Samsung's first iteration of 7LPP process node, which has very minimal differences with Samsung's 8LPP process node (if any), to fabricate the T239 (Dane), making the porting process from Samsung's first iteration of 7LPP process node to one of Samsung's 5 nm process nodes for the T239 easier since both process nodes are using EUV lithography, it won't be cheap nor easy to port the T239 from one of Samsung's 8 nm process nodes to one of Samsung's 5 nm process nodes.
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