B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
33,459
The Israeli prime minister ordered a call-up of reservists after Palestinian militants fired thousands of rockets, invaded several Israeli towns and took hostages.

  • Medical sources in Gaza say at least 232 Palestinians have been killed in Israeli air attacks launched after a Hamas offensive against Israel that killed at least 200.
  • The group running the besieged enclave said its surprise, large-scale operation was in response to the desecration of Al-Aqsa Mosque and increased settler violence.

www.aljazeera.com

Israel-Palestine escalation updates: Gaza under bombardment

These are the updates for the escalation between Palestinian fighters and Israel military on Saturday, October 7, 2023.

Both articles come from reliable news sources and are essentially live blogs that are being run and updated by actual reporters.

Currently, Egypt is contacting Saudi and Jordanian counterparts in an attempt to defuse the ongoing situation.

Official Staff Communication
The current situation in Israel and Palestine is obviously concerning to everyone. Hamas has launched what can only really be described as an all-out attack on Israel. This includes hundreds of rockets flying into major cities and groups of men with guns running, driving, and at times hang gliding in and shooting/kidnapping Israeli citizens. These actions are clearly bad and the loss of life tragic.

This mirrors the actions that the Israeli government has allowed for years; settlers driving into Palestinian territory and forcing people from their homes to take them for themselves or police forces attacking Palestinians attempting to worship on holy days. This has gone on for decades and is also, obviously, horrific.

While there is a temptation to simplify the situation, to try and flatten almost 100 years of history, doing so benefits no one and leads to no actual results or ideas. It just leads to people making accusations toward each other and making everyone dig in.

This is going to be a complicated ask, we recognize this, but there is a difference between explaining the dynamic and justifying actions. A gap between denouncing the violence and attempting to silence. To try and keep discussion going, here are a few points we ask members to follow:

  • Stay on topic. It might be tempting to try and use another situation in the world as a gotcha against posters you're arguing with, but all that will accomplish is pissing people off and taking the spotlight off the current situation.
  • DO NOT use the platform formerly known as Twitter and its random users as a primary source. There are actual news organizations on the ground, from CNN to Al Jazeera, covering what is going on. It is far too easy for social media users to take footage from one event and claim it's from this one, misrepresenting what is going on. This happens constantly in other situations as well. Use actual sources please.
  • We should try and avoid justifying any of the violence that has or will take place. If you think this is going to be the end of it, there's a bridge in Brooklyn that is currently for sale. This is only the start of mass violence in the region, the Israeli government is definitely going to escalate and Hamas will likely respond. This isn't the end of it.
  • Instead of insulting each other or making insinuations, send in a report. Derailing the thread with personal insults when you think someone is breaking the rules is a fast way to feel good about yourself, but it also takes the spotlight off the situation. If someone is doing something horrific, send in a report and we'll handle it. Don't engage.
 

Helix

Mayor of Clown Town
Member
Jun 8, 2019
24,301
my thoughts are with the people caught in the crossfire, what a terrible situation all around
 

Cation

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
3,603
I'm sorry, but if you claim to be a modern country and your targeting is so indiscriminate…then you are equally as terrible
 

stopmrdomino

Member
Jun 25, 2023
4,894
As usual, the innocents suffer the casualties for a war being fought by other people.

Hope people can stay safe. Fuck this
 

gdt

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,601
Thoughts are with all people there. I hope the Israeli retaliation is..... calculated and accurate.

Absolute horror has been visited on civilians today. And has been before....
 

Bulerias

Member
Oct 26, 2017
610
Minneapolis, MN
I appreciate the nuanced staff communication. The situation is just total shit for so many reasons, innocent people on both sides being massacred now.
 

dude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,727
Tel Aviv
This has been a terrible day. Just none stop calls with people to try to find out who's alive, who's dead, and who's kidnapped - and thinking about the innocents in Gaza who will pay as well.
 
Oct 28, 2017
992
I understand so little about this situation and it has been going on nearly my entire life. I wish there was a way to find peace. The decades of aggression and an inability to find any consensus brings us to a place where generations that didn't even start this will pay the price. That debt will placed upon their children, children's children and so on. They must find an end for the good of humanity.
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,020
I'm frankly uninterested in trying to make some mathematical moral analysis of if specific instances of violence today are "justifiable" or "indefensible". I think it's both pointless and a distraction from the horrific loss of life. What I will say is that you cannot commit violence against civilians and children for decades without opening up your own civilians and children to risk of reprisal, and as the entity with by far the most military force and control in the region the Israeli government bears some culpability for creating the conditions that placed its own civilian population at risk.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,784
I'm sorry, but if you claim to be a modern country and your targeting is so indiscriminate…then you are equally as terrible

What Israel has done to the Palestinians is horrible but there are reports of women and children being kidnapped, women raped and dragged naked to the streets, random civilians having their throats slashed/shot. There is no excusing this. It looks like Israel is about to attack Gaza so even more innocent lives will be lost.
 

nilbog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,375
Heard about the attack this morning, it looks very serious. Beware on twitter, lots of terrible stuff is being posted.

Hoping for a quick resolution to end this conflict.

My daughter's teacher is currently in Israel and they are very worried about her.
 
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Johnny Blaze

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
4,270
DE
What is Hamas trying to accomplish here? Doesn't help Palestinians really. I know I know doing nothing isn't working either but this is just stoking flames.

Something eventually has to give in this seemingly never ending conflict, this could escalate beyond Israel's borders in the ME fast.
 

Milennia

Prophet of Truth - Community Resetter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,344
I have family in central Israel

I hope all innocents get out and survive this on both sides of the border, this is horrific and I fear it's only going to escalate further over the next day
 

BradyTheGOAT

Banned
Aug 25, 2023
3,349
Not going to post a link to Twitter, though the source technically isn't Twitter, but this is a big factor here. The failure of Israeli intelligence over what has occurred is catastrophic and only 1973 surpasses it. There is going to be a reckoning within whatever Government is leading Israel.

img
 

Serene

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
52,602
Leadership on both sides are continuing to fail their people in pursuit of some bullshit ideals

Nothing else to say but it's a tragedy

I have family in central Israel

I hope all innocents get out and survive this on both sides of the border, this is horrific and I fear it's only going to escalate further over the next day

Really hope your family makes it out ok. 🙏
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,784
Not going to post a link to Twitter, though the source technically isn't Twitter, but this is a big factor here. The failure of Israeli intelligence over what has occurred is catastrophic and only 1973 surpasses it. There is going to be a reckoning within whatever Government is leading Israel.

I doubt Netanyahu will ever be held accountable for anything he has ever done. Sadly
 

greengr

Member
Dec 3, 2018
2,719
I am gonna call it as it is i and don't care if i catch a ban,geopotically there are Nations that they really don't want Israel to normalize relations with Arab Nations like Saudi Arabia and Egypt and have relative peace in the region,states like Iran and Qatar would gladly create this mess and fund Hamas officially and unofficially and use the people of Gaza as victims to perpetuate violence.
 
Dec 9, 2018
22,113
New Jersey
This is such a horrible and, sadly, inevitable culmination in this conflict. I was worried this day would come considering how much tensions have been boiling and billowing from both sides. Of course, I take a very firm stance in support of Palestine and support the oppressive occupation coming to an end, but this escalation would not accelerate that conclusion and would only beget more bloodshed. My heart goes out to those who are trapped in Gaza and the Israelis who fall victim to these attacks from Hamas.
 

DOBERMAN INC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,021
Any progress towards peace(albeit small) has been destroyed, the next few months and years are going to be devastating.
 

MR2

Member
Apr 14, 2022
1,076
I see that Netanyahu is still in power so we know what kind response we will see. RIP to the innocent Isreali citizens that died and the innocent Palestinian citizens who will soon suffer.
 

less

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,869
This is a terrible situation all around and I'm really hoping that things don't escalate too much. Too many innocents are going to be caught up in whatever comes next.
 

Watchtower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,869
Absolutely horrible and will only get worse with Israel retaliating. So much innocent blood spilt and so much more that will no doubt continue to spill.

My condolences to everyone there now fighting to stay alive.
 

SFLUFAN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,522
Alexandria, VA
What has also to be of significant concern to Tel Aviv is the strong possibility that Hamas was able to insert other infiltration cells prior to today's "main event" and that those cells dispersed to locations well away from the Gaza frontier such as Tel Aviv, Haifa, and Be'er Sheva and are simply waiting for a pre-arranged time to strike.
 

ratprophet

Banned
Jun 24, 2021
1,335
Good staff communication. I wouldn't want to be a mod on a thread like this so thank you for doing so.

Absolutely awful. Just what a complete mess from every angle. My heart goes out to all of the blameless people who will bare the brunt of this.
 

Cation

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
3,603
What Israel has done to the Palestinians is horrible but there are reports of women and children being kidnapped, women raped and dragged naked to the streets, random civilians having their throats slashed/shot. There is no excusing this. It looks like Israel is about to attack Gaza so even more innocent lives will be lost.
Nothing excuses a plain slaughter of people,there are really horrific videos out there of executions,i don't care which side you are on.
100% agreed. Im saying any and all violent crimes is not an excuse for more flagrant violence. In the past half century there has been terrible crimes that you cannot even describe done by both "sides" which only serve to harm the innocent people just trying to live.
 

Paroni

Member
Dec 17, 2020
3,551
Thoughts are with all people there. I hope the Israeli retaliation is..... calculated and accurate.
Seeing all those videos of massacres, brutalizing and kidnappings in social media makes me pretty pessimistic about a restrained response, there's certainly going to be lot of public pressure to make retaliation into full blown revenge.
 

Bláthanna

Member
Feb 15, 2023
746
Ireland
The videos I've seen of the Hamas attacks on Israel were extremely hard to watch. I imagine Israel is going to have no mercy in this counter-attack. As usual, civilians are the ones who must bear the brunt of their government's actions, on both sides.
 

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,384
Not going to post a link to Twitter, though the source technically isn't Twitter, but this is a big factor here. The failure of Israeli intelligence over what has occurred is catastrophic and only 1973 surpasses it. There is going to be a reckoning within whatever Government is leading Israel.

img
It's hard to separate this tragic result from Netanyahu's war on institutions, including when he called the army left wing protesters because they pointed out he was weakening their security.

Any progress towards peace(albeit small) has been destroyed, the next few months and years are going to be devastating.
There's been no progress or willingness toward peace for two decades tbh, only the normalization of an ongoing crime against humanity that's kept getting worse.
 

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,437
The response to this is going to be something awful. When I learned of this earlier in the morning, I only knew of the small invasion and I thought the response then would be grim. This was before there were reports they kidnapped and have hostages. There's no way the response is anything less than a bloodbath.

It's also crazy this even happened. Doesn't Israel have strong intelligence to get ahead of what looks like a deeply planned operation? Have all eyes been focused on making the state an autocracy so they were left unaware of this looming?
 

Vibranium

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,523
So fucked up man, the execution of Israeli people in the streets by Hamas and then the years long deaths and abuse of Palestinian citizens that will continue follow through Israeli's desire for revenge.

I wish things could be different. I wish shitty people could be put down out of power and it given to those who want peace.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,178
Thoughts are with all people there. I hope the Israeli retaliation is..... calculated and accurate.

Absolute horror has been visited on civilians today. And has been before....

I expect this to not be calculated at all, Israel more than ever can do whatever the fuck they want, they've been given a blank check and they will probably cash it out.

I do not say this lightly, but this might literally be the beginning of the "end" to this conflict. And I mean it in the worst way possible.
 

Zaph

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,358
What adds to the tragedy of this escalation is, just last week, Israel joined the US Visa Waiver program. Not only does this allow Israelis to visit the US without a visa, but more importantly Biden's administration ensured it is fully reciprocal, so no more Palestinian-Americans and Islamic-Americans being denied entry to Israel at TLV.

I don't know if its directly related, but its clear there are very powerful forces who never want this conflict to end.
 

MillionIII

Banned
Sep 11, 2018
6,816
User Banned (Permanent): Ignoring staff post, inflammatory commentary, history of severe bans
Israel forever, eliminate those terrorists once and for all.
 

ragolliangatan

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Aug 31, 2019
4,557
The response to this is going to be something awful. When I learned of this earlier in the morning, I only knew of the small invasion and I thought the response then would be grim. This was before there were reports they kidnapped and have hostages. There's no way the response is anything less than a bloodbath.

It's also crazy this even happened. Doesn't Israel have strong intelligence to get ahead of what looks like a deeply planned operation? Have all eyes been focused on making the state an autocracy so they were left unaware of this looming?

they do, so there's been an horrific failure in Israeli intelligence, or failure to take heed off it.

So much innocent life is going to be lost due to these events.
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,057
What Israel has done to the Palestinians is horrible but there are reports of women and children being kidnapped, women raped and dragged naked to the streets, random civilians having their throats slashed/shot. There is no excusing this. It looks like Israel is about to attack Gaza so even more innocent lives will be lost.
I think one of the issues in the previous thread is that people were warned to avoid social media cause there are bad images out there, but for a while there wasn't really a description of what was going on or why this was far worse than usual. So lots of people just assumed it's the usual terrible violence that happens occasionally and didn't put any more thought into what they were saying or why people were reacting differently.
 

That1GoodHunter

My ass legally belongs to Ted Price
Member
Oct 17, 2019
10,982
I can't imagine what the atmosphere must be like in the control centers for the usual peace brokers in the region. The videos coming off social media of corpses being... ugh. Basically having to talk down Israel from wiping Gaza off the face of the planet. How incredibly horrific, really difficult to stay optimistic about this ending as quickly and peacefully as possible.
 
Nov 8, 2017
13,380
This is very difficult to watch. The initial attacks from Hamas were horrid, and we all know how this story ends. We've seen it play out on smaller scales many times before. There is no actual path to military victory for Hamas, and they launched these attacks also with full knowledge of what happens next - a bunch of Palestinians get shot and blown up by the IDF, assuredly at a much larger scale because the IDF has all the weapons and modern equipment they lack. It seems unlikely that the hostages taken by Hamas will make it out of this alive. I do not expect Israel to just agree to let everyone return home in exchange for their safe return.

I can only hope it doesn't get too much worse than it already has and that the killing ends soon. But that can't be the end of the story. Returning to the status quo is unsatisfactory for both Israelis and Palestinians, guaranteeing continued flare-ups of violence and ongoing repression of Palestinians.
 

poklane

Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,739
the Netherlands
Violence against civilians is always awful, no matter who carries it out and who it's aimed it. It genuinely makes me depressed seeing Israeli civilians being murdered, raped and so on, and it equally depresses me how many people seem to want civilians in Gaza to just be wiped off the Earth as revenge. Just 2 sides mindlessly murdering civilians on the other side, it's just beyond disgusting.
 

Mr Coopz

Member
Jul 21, 2019
496
Am I wrong to assume that with the brutality that has taken place today, Israel forces will go all the way and fully occupy Gaza ?