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Isee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,235
Hello crazy tech orientated people.

Technology plays a big part of my daily live. I'm following news about smartphones, consoles, GPUs, CPUs, TVs, Headphones, and many kinds of other technology heavy products.
The big steps tech is making is still blowing my mind. I've seen the Internet come to life, voice assistance being established, and portable supercomputers become the norm.
But I'll spare you my boomer like nostalgia and fascination.
Last year my wife and me started looking into a completely different kind of tech, that we knew existed, but not much more about: Solar Energy
And boy-o-boy, a lot has changed there too in the last twenty years. It turned out to be a surprisingly reliable and well working technology, making similar steps as the rest of the tech industry.

Long story short: After a long planning, decision-making and building phase: we installed a photovoltaic system and a home battery to make the most of our own energy source.

I. LOVE. IT
The best tech acquisition I ever made.

The feeling of typing this, while not taking any kind of energy from the gird: Awesome
The feeling of playing a game at night, and powering everything from a big battery: Awesome
The feeling of not paying for energy: Awesome
The feeling of actively doing my part against climate change: A bit of an illusion, but still awesome.

I do not want to bore you with numbers, and a detailed cost-benefit analysis, especially as those numbers are different everywhere, depend on state funding and tax cuts, the pV system provided, your location, your energy costs etc.

But just some thoughts and details for the people interested.

-8kWp Solar roof grid (East: 3.2kWp / West: 4.8kWp). The roof is full, there is no more place for more panels, or there would be more panels.
-8kWh max inverter, a bit oversized for east-west panels.
-10kWh battery (DC, LiFePO4)

-On a good, sunny summer day we are producing ~34kWh per day
-On a dreadful summer day, with rain and clouds we are still producing about 16kWh/day. Still more than enough to load up the battery for the night and to be 99% self-sufficient over the day.
- Winter (December, January, February) are a problem for solar power over here and we will still need to buy most of our energy in that period. But for the rest: we should be 80-99% self-sufficient. Starting with march.

Overall, we should be able to recuperate the investment costs in about 8-9 years (with state funding, tax breaks, prognosed energy saving, prognosed energy sellings).
Sounds a lot but it is not: All we did is pay for our energy bill in advance, something that we must pay for anyway. kWh/€ prices are constantly increasing over here, so the pay-off time and long-time "winnings" only have the potential to be a benefit for the investment.
Solar panels installed twenty years ago are still going strong to this very day and are the reason we can make good prognoses. The tech and materials only improved since then and even our panel manufacturer is providing a 20-year warranty now and a 25-year performance guarantee (85% of power generation after 25 years). Lithium-Iron-phosphate batteries are also reliable, long living and recyclable. The pack should hold for 15 years+ and by the time we'll need a new one, cost should be dramatically lower. Only thing that will need to be exchanged sooner than later: The Inverter, but even that has a 7-year warranty and should hold for 10+years as it is a bit oversized. Hopefully longer.

Our region is producing energy from coal. Sounds stupid, but our government decided to close every single nuclear powerplant and energy must come from somewhere.
While I see the problems from nuclear waste, the decision was rushed and made switching to a better, greener grid more difficult.
But that's another topic, this decision means that my region is releasing ~750g CO2 per 1kWh energy produced. Our panels should produce ~8000kWh of energy per year and independent of our usage, the overflow energy is going into the public grid and will be used by (probably) our direct neighbours.
~6000kg of CO2 will be saved by this investment. Make it just 4000kg... I shouldn't, but I feel a tiny bit proud.

And yes, many people will point out that solar panels do cost CO2 to be made, batteries too etc. But factoring in the worst possible transportation routes and production conditions. Even the worst kind of panels will go "neutral" after ~3 years of usage. After that they will start go CO2 positive, which is not something you can say about Consoles, Smartphones, Computers, etc. They never give energy back or help to lower CO2 output. Still, buying them is accepted. Even farming bitcoins is accepted...

If you have the possibility and have or plan to buy a small house sometime in the future. At least consider doing some research into solar energy. Once you start doing it and realize the benefits, you'll be addicted too.

Now excuse me I need to keep looking at my dashboard(s).
(stark bewölkt = very overcast)
solar_4fqkj3.jpg

solar_4_dash_2ehja3.jpg
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 5491

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,249
Friend of mine also installed solar panels not that long ago and they are paying for themselves fast.
Faster than many might think in, even in Germany (Wie geht's?)
So yeah, I think every new home should have these on the roof and the government should give more incentives
(which would boost local production)
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,951
Just an FYI OP, might just be me but putting the ispoiler tag on all that text can make it kinda annoying to read. The spoiler tag is probably better if you wanna hide a bunch of text for optional reading.

And yeh, if I had my own place I'd definitely look into installing one.
 

Rotkehle

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
3,337
Hamm, Germany
OP Im 100% with you. Solar plus Battery is so awesome.

Greeting from Hamm/NRW. I've also an east/west oriantation of my house and want to max those panels out at 6.5K per side. But this project will be carried over to 2021.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,296
I just recently bought a house that is extremely open to the sky without any trees and gets complete coverage to the sun (when it's out) all day. Installing solar is something that's on my radar but I'm hesitant about the upfront cost and really need to do a lot of research about any of the government assistance programs that aren't scams.
 
OP
OP
Isee

Isee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,235
Friend of mine also installed solar panels not that long ago and they are paying for themselves fast.
Faster than many might think in, even in Germany (Wie geht's?)
So yeah, I think every new home should have these on the roof and the government should give more incentives
(which would boost local production)

I agree, but I see an increased number of homes being retrofitted over here. According to my energy provider they have now a total of ~3000 homes with solar panels integrated in their grid. My city has ~42k residential buildings and ~14k "single family houses". Three thousands of them are equipped with solar panels, people seem to be understanding the benefits.
Of course, it's still a huge, front-loaded investment. Which is the biggest problem. And do not make me start complaining about how difficult the government has made the paperwork. Or the complexity and problems of retrofitting apartments.
 

grmlin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,292
Germany
If I only had a roof big enough :( I'm out of the loop though, how big of an area do you need that it makes sense to install solar panels?
 

Ronnie Poncho

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
2,137
I feel you OP. I have solar panels on my house and it's amazing. I have a legacy Feed-In Tariff too so I get a fairly good deal from selling excess energy back to the grid.

Came with the house though (previous owners installed it). Not sure if I could justify the cost today, especially as you can't get FIT in the UK anymore.
 
OP
OP
Isee

Isee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,235
I just recently bought a house that is extremely open to the sky without any trees and gets complete coverage to the sun (when it's out) all day. Installing solar is something that's on my radar but I'm hesitant about the upfront cost and really need to do a lot of research about any of the government assistance programs that aren't scams.

I fully understand that. We started talking about solar panels years ago, but never with any meaning behind it.
Real research started last year, and it took us quiet long to figure everything out. It can be time and nerves consuming.
 

empyrean2k

Member
Oct 27, 2017
790
I love the idea and im really keen on being green, but boy do solar panels look like garbage on a roof (tesla solar roof aside).
 

Joni

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,508
I have them as well, but I'm very unhappy with them but that is thanks to my government who changed the rules almost immediately after I had them installed. Before 1 in = 1 out, so if I'm not home during the day, I can still use that energy at the evening. Now I put in 1 for free during the day and pay to get 1 back in the evening. So I'm very unhappy.
 
OP
OP
Isee

Isee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,235
If I only had a roof big enough :( I'm out of the loop though, how big of an area do you need that it makes sense to install solar panels?

Depends on the panels used and your yearly energy consumption. Panels twenty years ago were only able to produce ~250W of power per panel. In 2021 we are at 380-400W/Panel and even better stuff will be available in the future. Panel sizes also decreased.
There are some downsides to modern monocrystalline, shingled, small panels. But I'd say if you are able to get 5-6+kWp out of your roof, it can start making sense. Depending on all the other factors, like roof orientation, energy cost etc.
 

Rei Toei

Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,520
Cool stuff, OP! I'm currently in the process of making my (flat) roofs partially green/living with a gardener specialised in green roofs. After that I want to look into putting up some solar panels (the gardener is taking this into account obviously). Supposedly the solar panels should work even better with/on a green roof than a normal one.
 
OP
OP
Isee

Isee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,235
I have them as well, but I'm very unhappy with them but that is thanks to my government who changed the rules almost immediately after I had them installed. Before 1 in = 1 out, so if I'm not home during the day, I can still use that energy at the evening. Now I put in 1 for free during the day and pay to get 1 back in the evening.

Yeah, that's where my government is going too. We are only getting 0.07€ per kWh out and are paying 0.31€ per kWh in. Those 0.07€ are now locked in for twenty years, but they are reducing sell prices year after year by ~0.015€. That's why we have a "big" battery. We need to use as much of our own energy as possible. 0.07€/kWh out is laughable.
 

grmlin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,292
Germany
Depends on the panels used and your yearly energy consumption. Panels twenty years ago were only able to produce ~250W of power per panel. In 2021 we are at 380-400W/Panel and even better stuff will be available in the future. Panel sizes also decreased.
There are some downsides to modern monocrystalline, shingled, small panels. But I'd say if you are able to get 5-6+kWp out of your roof, it can start making sense. Depending on all the other factors, like roof orientation, energy cost etc.
thanks, I love researching stuff so there is a new goal haha
 
OP
OP
Isee

Isee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,235
Supposedly the solar panels should work even better with/on a green roof than a normal one.

That's true. Solar panels work better the cooler they run, which can be a problem considering you want the sun hitting them as much as possible. Having grass around and under them helps keeping temperature down.
 

Deleted member 34788

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 29, 2017
3,545
Here in the uk they are fast becoming commonplace, plenty of houses in my area and surrounding towns have them. New builds by and large have them in built, and they look fine. Still a bit too expensive for me but should become affordable in the next year or two, so I can get them for cheap or virtually free through a government programme.
 

Transistor

Hollowly Brittle
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,149
Washington, D.C.
WOW
respect4cky1.gif


What's your kWp?
I'd have to dig out the installer docs. The app doesn't seem to tell me lol. I live in Texas and my roof is absolutely ideal for solar, facing the perfect directions without any trees to obscure it. For 2021 so far I've generated 9.2 MWh, which is great.

My electric company doesn't technically pay me for excess solar, but they bank it for me. So the excess I generate in winter goes into an account that gets used in the summer when my AC pushes me over what I generate. So it works out well, since it's still at a 1:1 rate.
 
OP
OP
Isee

Isee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,235
I'd have to dig out the installer docs. The app doesn't seem to tell me lol. I live in Texas and my roof is absolutely ideal for solar, facing the perfect directions without any trees to obscure it. For 2021 so far I've generated 9.2 MWh, which is great.

My electric company doesn't technically pay me for excess solar, but they bank it for me. So the excess I generate in winter goes into an account that gets used in the summer when my AC pushes me over what I generate. So it works out well, since it's still at a 1:1 rate.

Sounds like a free, unlimited battery.
That's not a bad deal imo.
 

Transistor

Hollowly Brittle
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,149
Washington, D.C.
Sounds like a free, unlimited battery.
That's not a bad deal imo.
Yeah. It's great. Since my monthly payment for them is basically the same as what my electric bill was, it'll be free energy when it's paid off. Figured that this would help the wife and I retire earlier since that would be one less expense.

I'm thinking of investing in one of the Tesla power walls so we can be 100% independent
 
OP
OP
Isee

Isee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,235
Figured that this would help the wife and I retire earlier since that would be one less expense.

I would lie if I'd say that has not played a role in our decision making as well. Saving money till retirement and having lower energy costs during retirement is something to think about. Especially with ever increasing energy costs, at least over here.
 

Deleted member 5491

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,249
I agree, but I see an increased number of homes being retrofitted over here. According to my energy provider they have now a total of ~3000 homes with solar panels integrated in their grid. My city has ~42k residential buildings and ~14k "single family houses". Three thousands of them are equipped with solar panels, people seem to be understanding the benefits.
Of course, it's still a huge, front-loaded investment. Which is the biggest problem. And do not make me start complaining about how difficult the government has made the paperwork. Or the complexity and problems of retrofitting apartments.
Yeah paperwork and Germany is a neverending story.
And I don't know how and if you can get a loan by the KfW-Bank für something like this.

But overall we need as much solar energy and better insulation fpr lesser energyconsumption as possible the get somehow to
100% renewable energy.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
Solar, Powerwall, Cybertruck. That's what I'm hoping for one day. Although to be honest electricity here is from hydro and dirt cheap (costs me 30$ CAD per month in the summer right now, in a bit under 1000 square feet apartment, 70 in the winter). Electricity practically never goes out either, like maybe once a year for an hour at most.

So yeah even if I ever build a home I probably won't actually need it and will stick to the grid.
 

TrubbleFrog

Member
Feb 23, 2018
929
Beautiful read, thank you for including details in the spoilers. Dreaming of getting solar panels eventually, just waiting on the Tesla-esque roof panels to become slightly cheaper and widespread.
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,055
I had my (small) panels fitted for free in the UK. The company that installed them gets the export tariff, but I'm able to use any generated energy

unfortunately the panels are too small to meaningfully charge my EV so we mostly focus on trying to shift usage into periods where we aren't using the grid. We don't have a battery and unlikely at this point
 
OP
OP
Isee

Isee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,235
And I don't know how and if you can get a loan by the KfW-Bank für something like this.

Not sure about a loand from KfW, but at least every other bank will gladly give you money for solar panels. They know how fast they are paying off.
No matter what you do, at least you can get a bit of Zuschuss from KfW anyway.

just waiting on the Tesla-esque roof panels to become slightly cheaper and widespread.

Thank you

Looked into them as well. Promising tech, but not available over here.
And solar panels are sexy... ^^At least those "new", black ones.

Not our house, but the same panel model
notourhouseiqkov.jpeg
 
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whytemyke

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
3,786
Only time solar panels really seem lame in the US is when you go to sell your house, if you've leased the panels. Other than that they're great.

I'm in Michigan so I probably can't justify panels for year round use, but I've thought about getting a Power Wall run off them I'm case I ever lose power.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,093
Been meaning to ask, do you freeze your Everclear or do you just chug is straight out of the room temp bottle?
Due to it's alcohol content, trying to freeze everclear takes a little less energy than playing a gamegear for 8 hours straight. We don't have that kinda of tech yet
 

RadzPrower

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 19, 2018
6,044
Considered getting some about a year ago, but our HOA would be problematic to get them installed if we could at all.

Not to mention we don't have the up-front money to pay for them right now either.
 

Transistor

Hollowly Brittle
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,149
Washington, D.C.
Only time solar panels really seem lame in the US is when you go to sell your house, if you've leased the panels. Other than that they're great.

I'm in Michigan so I probably can't justify panels for year round use, but I've thought about getting a Power Wall run off them I'm case I ever lose power.
Yeah, never lease panels if you can avoid it. Finance to own, as long as they have a good warranty (mine have 25 years)
 

Adventureracing

The Fallen
Nov 7, 2017
8,035
Yeah our solar panels have been great. Even in winter we easily make enough power to cover our needs (live in Australia so lots of sun).
 

GoldenFlex

Alt Account
Banned
May 7, 2021
2,900
Google made a tool if you're curious how much solar energy your house could get at the moment with no mods:

sunroof.withgoogle.com

Project Sunroof

Enter a state, county, city, or zip code to see a solar estimate for the area, based on the amount of usable sunlight and roof space.

What strikes me is how much money schools could save by switching to solar panels on their mostly flat roofs. Would be funding that ASAP if I was part of a school board.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,296
OP, you're in Europe (Germany?) I assume?

Anyone here who's gotten solar in NYS? I've been trying to read up on it and there's a lot of info but it seems that NYS will help with loans and credits for finding a contractor and then you get tax breaks and stuff to off-set the cost down the line.... this is one of those things where you're afraid you're gonna pick the wrong path and completely fuck yourself on costs LOL
 

RadzPrower

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 19, 2018
6,044
Google made a tool if you're curious how much solar energy your house could get at the moment with no mods:

sunroof.withgoogle.com

Project Sunroof

Enter a state, county, city, or zip code to see a solar estimate for the area, based on the amount of usable sunlight and roof space.

What strikes me is how much money schools could save by switching to solar panels on their mostly flat roofs. Would be funding that ASAP if I was part of a school board.
My address is not available, so their coverage is apparently limited.
 

GoldenFlex

Alt Account
Banned
May 7, 2021
2,900
My address is not available, so their coverage is apparently limited.
Most of the US is covered from what I looked at, not sure where you are though. I'll share my apartments address though to show what its like:

dssxHG6.png

0a5dW1U.png


and then on this page they even show you how much your zipcodes potential is if every roof had solar which is pretty cool:

sunroof.withgoogle.com

Project Sunroof - Data Explorer | 48202

Enter a state, county, city, or zip code to see a solar estimate for the area, based on the amount of usable sunlight and roof space.

Really hoping the federal government starts giving much deeper investments in this.
 
Jan 29, 2018
9,391
I definitely want to get solar panels but I think I'm in the window where I should probably get a new roof first, but my roof isn't quite old/bad enough to do right now. It seems like it would be expensive and complicated to take solar panels off 5-10 years from now when I need to replace my roof.

It's a dream though, and every once in a while I put some money in solar stocks thinking I'll cash out when I eventually do pull the trigger.
 

Cub3h

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
438
I looked into this when remortgaging, but in the UK it sadly just doesn't seem worth it at the moment. The government has basically removed all incentives and the installation price hasn't really dropped the last five years.

When I crunched the numbers it would take about 20 years to break even, and that's without taking into account the added cost of borrowing extra on the mortgage or the amount of money you could be making by just sticking ten grand in an index fund for 20 years. It sucks because I've got a south facing roof and really like the idea of being able to mostly live off the grid.
 

RadzPrower

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jan 19, 2018
6,044
Most of the US is covered from what I looked at, not sure where you are though. I'll share my apartments address though to show what its like:
I'm just in a dead zone it seems. The town south of me is larger than the town north of me, but the town north of me DOES show up on the map, but the larger town to the south does not...and the larger town is closer to the metro area than the north one! It makes no sense.
 

Laephis

Member
Jun 25, 2021
2,557
I love this stuff, too. Only have to pay for electricity in Jan and Feb. I have a SolarEdge system and the app makes it fun to track the data and see the impact you're having:

IMG_0127.JPG