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"By your own admission, the device is designed to play games, but is disqualified from being a console due to being portable."
"That is correct. A console must be designed to be stationary, like a PlayStation 3, or a GameCube, or a…"
!
"Like a GameCube you say?"
"Yes, haven't you been listening? The DS was designed for portability, while something like the GameCube sits under your TV and…"
"Your Honor… the Witness's Testimony presents a Clear Contradiction! The Nintendo GameCube…"
"Has a HANDLE! IT IS CLEARLY A CONSOLE YET DESIGNED FOR PORTABILITY!"
OBJECTION!
*shakes head*
Your honor, has anyone outside a stock photo been recorded using the handle? How do we know it's not a spacer for the exhaust?
More than a cable box?
Sorry, out of the box the Wii U won't play without some form of video output, even if you're trying to play only from the tablet. Literally pops to a "plug my stationary system ass into a TV!" message.I guess GameGears and Lynx are consoles because they eat so much battery you play use them on a table next to packs of batteries or tethered to the wall.
Also proof that WiiU is a handheld and not a console
Nintendo clearly included the arbitrary and pointlessly restrictive video output check as they were then deeply invested in the home console vs. handheld system distinction. Literally no other reason could possibly justify such a pointless OS design choice.
Also they didn't name it the "Nintendo Entertainment Console", they called it the "Nintendo Entertainment System".
So in conclusion: Nintendo agrees with me.
I thought some of posts here diving into the etymology behind what is considered a console were really interesting, and I didn't even realize this thread was 7 pages of people arguing over the definition of the word console.
OP clearly stated his analysis was based on the definition of a device having interchangeable games, and existing for the primary purpose of playing games. That's why Apple isn't on there for the iPod/iPhone, and gaming devices with fixed game selections such as the old Tiger handhelds or the newer "classic" consoles aren't included. That's it. Picking apart the methodology beyond that is just needlessly pedantic.
If you don't like the range of devices included, you can go to the primary data sources and put together your own chart that breaks it down by console type, or primary brand color, or anything else really. That's probably a better use of your time than arguing over this here.
OP clearly stated his analysis was based on the definition of a device having interchangeable games, and existing for the primary purpose of playing games. That's why Apple isn't on there for the iPod/iPhone, and gaming devices with fixed game selections such as the old Tiger handhelds or the newer "classic" consoles aren't included. That's it. Picking apart the methodology beyond that is just needlessly pedantic.
If you don't like the range of devices included, you can go to the primary data sources and put together your own chart that breaks it down by console type, or primary brand color, or anything else really. That's probably a better use of your time than arguing over this here.
mobile games that are only on mobile are different games than games that are only on consoles, yes. Mobile is still part of the game industry, but a distinction is made because the devices used to play mobile games have so many other functions. Kind of like how PC sales don't count towards dedicated game console sales for companies like HP or Dell, despite being able to play AAA games.
Nintendo Switch is a dedicated video game console similar to the ones made by Sony, MS, Sega, Atari and previous Nintendo consoles. The fact that it has unique software and features does not change this. Xbox being so similar to Playstation does not change the fact that Nintendo consoles are consoles. They were doing this before either of them afterall.
Then he should have said "dedicated video game systems" and not "consoles".
Is a cable box competing in the same market? What's a console but a less powerful PC? They're not in the same market
OBECTION!
This is conjecture, the handle shape makes the function obvious and even if it wasn't, we have EVIDENCE from Nintendo themselves!
Observe in this video where Nintendo talks about the influences of the Switch. They point out how it was the GameCube's handle and portability...
THAT LAID THE GROUNDWORK FOR THE SWITCH'S PORTABILITY!
...Are you sure the WiiU needs to be plugged into a video output to play? Because my WiiU hasn't been connected to my TV in years, yet I still play games on the gamepad.
The HDMI is probably still plugged it, but it's not connected to my TV.
Nintendo have done a great job. And let's be frank, they should be at the top of the pile, they've released more hardware than anyone else and have been in the game the longest.
They've also dominated the portable market.
I think Sony are probably the kings of the home console market - on average 100m+ each gen is an incredible statistic.
Where as Nintendo struggled with the N64 and the GameCube.
I don't want to get dragged into the crazy debate in here, but I will say I've always considered consoles and handhelds distinct from each other, but that's just me. I get it though.
They've also dominated the portable market.
I think Sony are probably the kings of the home console market - on average 100m+ each gen is an incredible statistic.
Where as Nintendo struggled with the N64 and the GameCube.
I don't want to get dragged into the crazy debate in here, but I will say I've always considered consoles and handhelds distinct from each other, but that's just me. I get it though.
You could just not post ya know. Nobody is forcing you to.
I think the number itself is interesting, as is the analysis of the average sales pet year and figuring out when they're likely to hit 1 billion.
Mobile games are video games on mobile phones, and modern phones are essentially mobile computer systems or handheld computers. Something to keep in mind is that all video games are also computer games. But how we use language is important, and in everyday usage, we don't use computer games to refer to video games games as a whole anymore.
But it's very much true that Mario 64 is a computer game, that Pokemon Red/Blue are computer games, that The Last of Us 2 is a computer game. Angry Birds on an iPhone is a computer game. Angry Birds on an Android phone is a computer game. All modern devices branched off from computers, and are essentially, dedicated computing devices. But we differentiate because there are differences among each platform, even if those differences are shrinking.
Also we as humans just love categorizing things.
But it's very much true that Mario 64 is a computer game, that Pokemon Red/Blue are computer games, that The Last of Us 2 is a computer game. Angry Birds on an iPhone is a computer game. Angry Birds on an Android phone is a computer game. All modern devices branched off from computers, and are essentially, dedicated computing devices. But we differentiate because there are differences among each platform, even if those differences are shrinking.
Also we as humans just love categorizing things.
You can do more than just play games on a lot of video game systems. Once upon a time analysts argued that the PS2's early success in Japan was tied to its use as a DVD player for example, and same with the PS3 with blu-rays. Both should obviously be discounted from Sony's QTY since we even have reporting from the period to corroborate this multi-purpose use.
Also going by my brief Gamestop career the primary purpose of the PSP was to watch porn via the web browser and media playback functionalities, not video games.
"By your own admission, the device is designed to play games, but is disqualified from being a console due to being portable."
"That is correct. A console must be designed to be stationary, like a PlayStation 3, or a GameCube, or a…"
!
"Like a GameCube you say?"
"Yes, haven't you been listening? The DS was designed for portability, while something like the GameCube sits under your TV and…"
"Your Honor… the Witness's Testimony presents a Clear Contradiction! The Nintendo GameCube…"
"Has a HANDLE! IT IS CLEARLY A CONSOLE YET DESIGNED FOR PORTABILITY!"
That would be the Frankfurter, or the weiner sausage. The Hot Dog is the assembled sandwich.
Oh dear lord I spent way much time on this
Console is the accepted shorthand for dedicated video game computers released by Sony, Nintendo, Sega, Microsoft, etc. They come in multiple form factors, including the home console and the handheld console.
There is no actual argument against this. It's just not how linguistics works. All you can do is understand where it came from, not attempt to apply """logic""" or rules to explain what it should be. However a word is used, is exactly what a word means. How a word is used is exactly what it should be.
OBECTION!
This is conjecture, the handle shape makes the function obvious and even if it wasn't, we have EVIDENCE from Nintendo themselves!
Observe in this video where Nintendo talks about the influences of the Switch. They point out how it was the GameCube's handle and portability...
THAT LAID THE GROUNDWORK FOR THE SWITCH'S PORTABILITY!
It's very clear why they feel so compelled to argue with lengthy novel after novel. The switch being a handheld should not undermine its success
My guy when you're so fucking mad about handhelds being literally defined as consoles that you need to compare it to shitty transphobic jokes, maybe take a step back and collect your thoughts.
The thing with this thread is that it was started on the basis of strong results for Nintendo that are a credit to their longevity.
It has descended into those that disagree with the premise of Nintendo's longevity now making obtuse arguments in the service of purposefully trying to lock the thread.
Era can be hilarious and ridiculously silly with how much some can be offended by the innocuous.
Literally nobody is saying Nintendo is currently the market leader at the moment, just that they've sold the most consoles throughout history.
But some are so offended by this they'll troll the thread right to a lock.
It has descended into those that disagree with the premise of Nintendo's longevity now making obtuse arguments in the service of purposefully trying to lock the thread.
Era can be hilarious and ridiculously silly with how much some can be offended by the innocuous.
Literally nobody is saying Nintendo is currently the market leader at the moment, just that they've sold the most consoles throughout history.
But some are so offended by this they'll troll the thread right to a lock.
OP definitely provided enough information for their intended definition to be understood. This isn't a peer-reviewed journal (and thank goodness, because this thread is embarrassing and honestly I feel pretty foolish just for posting in it).
Well this particular person is arguing that no videogame console really fits the definition of console, not just handhelds/hybrids.
I hear 2nd place is The Worst Place.
That's where it went but not where it originated.
Do you even have a WiiU?
I literally just unplugged the hdmi cable and it worked just fine.
Out of the box, the system could be brick randomly so I'm not sure this is an argument worth going into when a significant number of them didn't even work.
Heck is the x360 a console or a time bomb because in 2007 you could legitimately wonder if MSFT even thought they were making a console.
And as for Nintendo?
My Nintendo Store – Nintendo Official Site
Shop at the My Nintendo Store for exclusive Nintendo merchandise, video games in digital and physical formats, Nintendo Switch™ systems, and much more.
www.nintendo.com
ie : Gameboy is a console for Nintendo => handheld systems are console for Nintendo.
What is all this about Sony selling blah blah blah….Keep that part. I'm not talking about Sony nor do i give af. My argument isn't about that nor is it about disputing these numbers.
In casual conversation, no one calls a 3DS a console nor is it the first thing that comes to mind when someone says "console". The first thing that comes to mind is a PlayStation or an Xbox.
My entire post that started this off is that I believe the distinction for not calling handhelds "console" has stick and there is no play on semantics that will make it stick.
Nobody in casual conversation is going to bring up a Wikipedia page to prove that the switch or the psp or the gameboy is a "vonsole". They will simply recognize them as a handheld. No one even says "handheld console" either. However it is socially and widely agreed upon that the other two big ones are "consoles".
When the switch was revealed, a similar argument like this happened and out came the charts on how little Nintendo had success with home consoles but they are the kings of handhelds….Key word again "console"
Nintendo can lump in their sales together because it is what it is. I'm not even in here about that. It's just the nonsensical commentary on how all of a sudden, the word "console" means everything when the world and the industry and more has never referred to handhelds in that way.
Bad faith arguments don't add much to the discussion but if this makes you feel better about the factual data, go for it.
I think this is a case where context does a good enough job solving semantic issues.
You wanting to make a distinction between home consoles and handheld consoles without using the word consoles over and over again? Well, we have a common phrasing for that: console vs handheld.
This whole "WHAT, PRECISELY, DOES 'CONSOLE' MEAN???" business is dumb, because either way, the actual relevant question is whether there can be value in putting consoles (home consoles) and handhelds (handheld consoles) in different categories. I think the answer is yes, personally. If your primary goal is to compare sales of dedicated video game devices overall, then yeah, I can also see the value of the OP's approach.
It should be perfectly possible to be chill about this.
I didn't make that comparison, I just closed the loop on someone else's poor attempt to frame my argument as beingakin to transphobic pronoun arguments. Not my fault gaming side has a real penchant for trying to frame even joking disagreements as someone being a fascist/using facist reasoning.
What's so clear?
I type fast so its pretty easy for me to type "novel after novel" by your definition I guess. Also the Switch OG is a hybrid console, the Switch Lite is a dedicated handheld. Don't see anyone trying to downplay the success of the format though.
Is it a bad faith argument to poke holes in an obtuse statement that doesn't really prompt any further dialogue? I didn't even start this until we were pages into this thing already going off the rails, I just helped push it towards a single common derailment, instead of basically outright console warring of other people trying to cherry pick the cherry picked numbers into a different argument, while asking the OP to do the homework on it since they didn't show their math (i.e. post a Google Sheets copy or something).
Did some meaningful new bit of sales data recently get revealed that meaningfully changed the makeup of industry sales histories?
Why doesn't Game n Watch count? Because it only plays one game? If so we should delete about 50% of all Vita sales because those were clearly P4G uni-taskers.
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OBECTION!
This is conjecture, the handle shape makes the function obvious and even if it wasn't, we have EVIDENCE from Nintendo themselves!
Observe in this video where Nintendo talks about the influences of the Switch. They point out how it was the GameCube's handle and portability...
THAT LAID THE GROUNDWORK FOR THE SWITCH'S PORTABILITY!
I swear to god guys, you're gonna kill me.
Yep, the ugly truth right here. I'll never understand why fanboys lose their shit when it comes to their favorite megacorportation. So what if Nintendo is the #1 console manufacturer? How does this negatively affect our daily lives, no matter our gaming preference?
I like how you omit "consoles" and instead use "devices" for handhelds. By definition, for as long as they've existed, handhelds stood for "handheld consoles." But this has been already proven ad naseum in this thread.
There is no "clear" distinction between the two aside from certain gaming forums on the internet, for the most part.
"Yeah, well PS has more software shipments than Nintendo!"
What the fuck is this even? Jesus Christ, y'all.
This thread was a headache but I love you for allowing me to discover this, LMAO
The entire industry has always referred to handheld consoles as consoles. Nintendo does it, Sony does it, NPD does it, Wiki does it, old school game magazines did it.
The reason we add the word home to 'home console' is to distinguish it from a handheld console. If handhelds were never included as consoles, we'd not have to use the word 'home' and would just say consoles.
At this point I don't even care to respond to any argument, I'm gonna be illustrating using the Phoenix Wright meme generator.
It's really well made too!
You literally made a MAGA comparison as an attempt to undermine others and framed it as "the gaming industry sure is dumb, huh?"
But if you actually followed arguments from the alt-right, you'd know they are the ones who argue that language is being ruined by the poors and other races and what's with slang these days? Science is intellectualism, and sciences approach to language is not prescriptive. The alt-right, and MAGA by extension, fight against science and what scientists actually say, who study in their fields. As a layperson, your view of such complicated fields should be based on what those who spend their lives studying it say, not what you feel is right, common sense, what you think about someones smarts, etc.
The only nonsensical thing in this thread are these insane ramblings. Handheld consoles have always been called as such, there is a reason why the Wikipedia page is titled handheld game console.
HW shipments Nintendo > SIE
SW shipments Nintendo >>>>>>>>>> SIE
People shouldn't care this much but they do. I'll never get it, especially if you're past the age where your parents had to buy your console and they only chose the cheaper option when they did. So then you had to go over your rich friends house to play the all the other ones to see what you were missing.
To do that now is kind of crazy. But we see it all throughout tech tbh, phones, laptops, etc. However console warz is the only one that obsesses over numbers and spec sheets to this degree. It's so bad.
I'm pretty sure Sony is trailing in software sales but quite a bit
Just imagine that old Nintendo patent as the controller except mine has a buttplug.
You are missing my point. I brought up the phone analogy because the distinction matters based on the way it is perceived in society and it's functionality. It matters because everything is not shared between everyone
When I think console, I think of an anti-pc created to play games at home.
When I think of a handheld, it is a device used to play video games on the go which are specifically made for it
when I think of PC, I think of a towering box of technology capable of the most powerful of task.
When I think laptop, I think of it as a smaller enclosed slim case computer that can do some tasks.
However, a laptop and a desktop are closer to the same thing because they can share everything with each other. Form factor is the only thing that differs at that point. So I'm okay with a laptop being called a "PC"
However a PS Vita and a PS4 are not close to each other in anyway. So they are entirely separate. I don't not see the Vita as a console, but instead a handheld device.
If someone casually said to you, "What do you call the Xbox Series X"
What are you going to describe that as?
If someone asks you "What do you call a PlayStation Vita"
Same thing?
I will let you know right now just honestly, I have yet to meet anyone in my 29 years of life who has ever called a any handheld device a "handheld console".
I brought up mobile because we call it what it is in the title and it moves no further than that. It's a "mobile" game. Despite smartphones being lite PCs, if we go based on the technical definition by what a PC is, mobile games are not considered PC games. Smartphones are not considered PC. No one refers to an iPhone as a Smartphone PC. It's just a smartphone however though, technically it is considered a PC. So are you really going to look at an iPhone and call that a PC or are you going to call it a smartphone?
This is my issue. And No, Hot dogs are not sandwiches even if they follow the basic rule of having meat in between two slices of bread.
I just see this now!
let me make a more accurate one
I think that's just because people know handheld is short for handheld console?
Just like no one calls a PC a personal computer, they just say PC for short.