Nintendo eShop "illegal" pre-order issue now passed to German authorities

[delete12345]

Source is in Norwegian, so I don't have an English version (I can't tell):

http://www.pressfire.no/nyheter/Switch/13215/forbrukertilsynet-tar-nintendo-til-tyske-myndigheter

Summary Translation here:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSw...tes_nintendos_illegal_eshop_preorder/e20ixtv/

Credits to /u/Fawesum:

Here's my earlier summary of the situation.

I've translated some of the linked article:

• The issue is that Nintendo gives no option to cancel a pre-order even though the game isn't released.
• Norway is a part of the European Economic Community, which means they share many EU laws.
• Norway's authorities has now escalated the issue, saying they agree with the Consumer Rights Council.
• They have forwarded the complaint to Germany, as Nintendo of Europe is based there.
• Norway say Nintendo is breaching common EU consumer law, and are giving Germany an "enforcement request", asking them to "consider taking action against Nintendo of Europe GmbH".
• Norway says "The practice of pre-loading unreleased games weeks or months before release cannot be used to circumvent the consumer's right to withdrawal. We consider this a breach of the CRD." That's the Consumer Rights Directive.
• If Germany agrees with Norway and Nintendo doesn't do anything, this might end up in the EU courts.

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If someone else knows of an existing older link, please let me know so I can request to lock myself up.

 

[Deleted member 24118]

All the console makers need to be dragged before courts tbh. Anti consumer practices are rampant.

 

[SinCityAssassin]

Considering there's a new NoE president now, I wonder how he'll handle this.

 

[JazzmanZ]

Nintendo better start making these changes fast.

 

[WiiDSmoker]

Good. Every company should allow withdrawal of pre-order and to go further; if a game is bought digitally but never played should also be allowed for a refund.

 

[delete12345]

Considering there's a new NoE president now, I wonder how he'll handle this.

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Most likely changing stances to match EU policies, given that the situation has been escalated.

All the console makers need to be dragged before courts tbh. Anti consumer practices are rampant.

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Is Sony and Microsoft also doing this? I'm not aware for both of those platforms.

 

[DocSeuss]

Most likely changing stances to match EU policies, given that the situation has been escalated.


Is Sony and Microsoft also doing this? I'm not aware for both of those platforms.

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Sony is, Microsoft is not. For a while there, Microsoft support would let you cancel a preorder anyways, but it works like this now:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4000642/microsoft-store-cancel-an-order

Sony, on the other hand, will not let you cancel a preorder and literally said to me "sorry it's in our EULA so there's nothing anyone can do about it, you should have thought about that before you preordered."

Nintendo and Sony can go fuck off with this policy. I hope they do get dragged through the courts for this. It'd be nice if someone would do a class action suit against Sony renewing Plus against people's wishes (if you have payment on file but canceled plus, there's a high chance Sony has renewed it). I've had friends banned from PSN because of it.

 

[Escalario]

This is the law that made NoE stop doing digital preorders on WiiU, with Smash being the only game you could preorder digitally. Considering they didn't change their stance in the last 4 years, I doubt they're gonna do it now, so I would expect no more digital preorders from european eshop.

Also:
>They have forwarded the complaint to Germany, as Nintendo of Europe is based there.
Didn't NoE's HQ move to Austria few years ago?
EDIT: Nope, they've got rid of 130 employees and moved to a different german city.

 

[Jashobeam]

Good. Every company should allow withdrawal of pre-order and to go further; if a game is bought digitally but never played should also be allowed for a refund.

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that's just silly, its not their fault you bought a game and never got around to playing it

 

[Noobcraft]

that's just silly, its not their fault you bought a game and never got around to playing it

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It's not silly. Microsoft and Steam allow it.

 

[delete12345]

Also:
>They have forwarded the complaint to Germany, as Nintendo of Europe is based there.
Didn't NoE's HQ move to Austria few years ago?

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Well, I'm just quoting what was translated second-handedly. :/

 

[Escalario]

Well, I'm just quoting what was translated second-handedly. :/

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I'm not saying you're the one being wrong.

 

[WiiDSmoker]

that's just silly, its not their fault you bought a game and never got around to playing it

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I can return a physical game that was never opened/played. No difference.

 

[DemonSwordsman]

Its great this is happening, needs to happen to sony as well.

that's just silly, its not their fault you bought a game and never got around to playing it

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Thats not silly, you can return any unopened thing.

 

[CommodoreKong]

It's not silly. Microsoft and Steam allow it.

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Valve only automatically refunds you if you've played for less than 2 hours and it's been less than 2 weeks since you bought the game, if it's more than that someone in Valve's CS department needs to approve it.

 

[JJConrad]

The crux of the issue is that Nintendo does not take "pre-orders" which are covered under one set of laws. They offer "pre-purchases" which then immediately start downloading the game. Under EU law online digital content is not refundable if it has already started downloading... and Nintendo is treating as such.

I can return a physical game that was never opened/played. No difference.

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That is up to the retailer. There is no law in europe forcing them to make a refund on software that is not faulty.

 

[Dom6]

I'm wondering if it's a technical limitation. Regardless, once they figure it out - please pass that onto the other regions as well..

 

[delete12345]

I'm wondering if it's a technical limitation. Regardless, once they figure it out - please pass that onto the other regions as well..

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Nothing is considered technical limitation, if they have the expenses, the bureaucracy, and the will of the leaderships. :D

 

[Jashobeam]

It's not silly. Microsoft and Steam allow it.

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theres a time limit though isn't there? if they refund you after like 6 months that's pretty great.

 

[Becks']

theres a time limit though isn't there? if they refund you after like 6 months that's pretty great.

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I've had some games I bought a couple of months ago and I never got to play them so I decided to refund them through Steam. They did refund even though their policy says 2 weeks from the purchase max but exceptions can be made. Looks like they only look at playtime.

 

[linnus]

Sony renewing Plus against people's wishes

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This just happened to me last week. I though that my cc/account was hacked when I received a notification from my bank saying that I was charged $60 from PSN. I immediately wanted to cancel/ask for a refund but I got scared of being banned and losing all of my digital games.

 

[PK_Wonder]

Edit: ignore post

 

[Velocity:Design:Comfort]

The crux of the issue is that Nintendo does not take "pre-orders" which are covered under one set of laws. They offer "pre-purchases" which then immediately start downloading the game. Under EU law online digital content is not refundable if it has already started downloading... and Nintendo is treating as such.

That is up to the retailer. There is no law in europe forcing them to make a refund on software that is not faulty.

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The Norwegians rightfully seem to think that loophole is bs, though. We'll see if the EU does

 

[Planet]

Sony renewing Plus against people's wishes (if you have payment on file but canceled plus, there's a high chance Sony has renewed it). I've had friends banned from PSN because of it.

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99% of those cases, +/- 1, just either plain forgot to cancel they subscription or cancelled before renewing again. Renewing via store always re-establishes automatic renewal.

 

[Deleted member 10737]

the definitely should allow the option of canceling a pre purchase. just delete the game from the user's system and refund them.

 

[soulzonik]

Sony, on the other hand, will not let you cancel a preorder and literally said to me "sorry it's in our EULA so there's nothing anyone can do about it, you should have thought about that before you preordered."

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If I am not mistaken, you can cancel pre-orders in Europe (PS Store). It is possible to do pre-orders for "free" also (the payment will occur only when you want). This, of course, is not the same for America.

 

[Watershed]

Pre-purchasing and refunds for digital downloads are 2 issues Nintendo needs to sort out or be forced to sort out. Refunds should be tied to playtime.

 

[Deleted member 10737]

is there a reason for nintendo to think (now that switch has been hacked) people may abuse this system to download the game to their switch, then cancel but still manage to find a way to keep the game on their system and play it?
kind of like a very convenient piracy method where you're actually downloading the games from nintendo servers

 

[Pokemon Master Tim]

Good. Every company should allow withdrawal of pre-order and to go further; if a game is bought digitally but never played should also be allowed for a refund.

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Doesn't Xbox do that? If you've not played a game you bought and downloaded within 2 weeks for more than 2 hours total, you can have your money back.

 

[tolkir]

Probably Nintendo will remove preorder option instead to fix it if they are sued.

 

[Deleted member 9971]

Digital pre orders should be able to be cancelled tbh there also should be a refund system like steam aswell.

 

[unicornKnight]

Its great this is happening, needs to happen to sony as well.



Thats not silly, you can return any unopened thing.

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But only for a certain period, no?

 

[Pancakes R Us]

I hope Nintendo complies. And receives a big fat fine too. Sick of anti consumer practices.

 

[Rocketjay]

They better not get away with this shit.

 

[Infinity Times Two]

I hope they implement a refund system instead of just removing the preorder system.

But with Nintendo you never know.

 

[Kureransu]

I honestly don't think anyone should be charged until the game is playable. This practice is completely ridiculous. Digital sales should mimic that of tangible. You are paying for a product that you've no access to and should be able to cancel it before it's made available. It's a complete joke.

 

[tyfon]

I honestly don't think anyone should be charged until the game is playable. This practice is completely ridiculous. Digital sales should mimic that of tangible. You are paying for a product that you've no access to and should be able to cancel it before it's made available. It's a complete joke.

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The problem here is the bundling of pre-order purchase bonuses.
You "buy" them immediately and it counts as a regular sale.

I think that is the loophole they want to close.
I also hope they will push for regular refunds after launch too as they mention that in the report.

Here is the original report in Norwegian that spawned this lawsuit, I can't get google translate to take it:
https://fil.forbrukerradet.no/wp-co...206-bakgrunnsnotat-og-dokumentasjon-spill.pdf

The punchline is:
Før lanseringsdato:Forbruker kan få tilbake penger før lansering hos alle plattformene unntatt Nintendo eStore. Kun Origin, Steam og Playstation Store har en enkel ordning for dette, mens hos de andre plattformene må man kontakte kundesupport for å avbryte forhåndsbestilling.

Translates to
Before launch date: A consumer can be refunded prior to launch on all the platforms except Nintendo eStore. Only Origin, Steam and Playstation Store has a simple solution for this, while on the other platforms you have to contact customer support to abort a pre-order.


The stores they testet were:

• Battle.net (Activision Blizzard)
• Origin (Electronic Arts)
• Steam (Valve)
• Uplay (Ubisoft)
• Nintendo eShop (Nintendo)
• Playstation Store (Sony)
• Xbox Store (Microsoft)

 

[SweetVermouth]

Very nice, hopefully this gets Nintendo to change their system. Also I want refunds like on steam too.

 

[Oynox]

Good. Every company should allow withdrawal of pre-order and to go further; if a game is bought digitally but never played should also be allowed for a refund.

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Nah, that's stupid. The way steam handles the system is pretty good. Within 14 days of purchase you can return the game, given you played it less than 2 hours. Some people just buy and hoard games, there is no justification they should be able to return them two years later, because they decide they are short on money,

 

[TLZ]

Yea these companies suck and should get with the times. I don't know why this isn't a big deal yet and how they're allowed such Shitty practices.

On the iPad just this last week I had an automatic renewal refunded in minutes and an app purchase refunded with the click of a button. This is how it should be on consoles.

 

[test_account]

Sony is, Microsoft is not. For a while there, Microsoft support would let you cancel a preorder anyways, but it works like this now:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/help/4000642/microsoft-store-cancel-an-order

Sony, on the other hand, will not let you cancel a preorder and literally said to me "sorry it's in our EULA so there's nothing anyone can do about it, you should have thought about that before you preordered."

Nintendo and Sony can go fuck off with this policy. I hope they do get dragged through the courts for this. It'd be nice if someone would do a class action suit against Sony renewing Plus against people's wishes (if you have payment on file but canceled plus, there's a high chance Sony has renewed it). I've had friends banned from PSN because of it.

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Sony in Europe allows you to cancel your pre-order at least. Heres how to do it: https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/g...n---pre-orders/how-do-i-cancel-a-pre-order-0/

How does Sony renew Plus against people's wishes if you canceled it? Sounds more like a case of auto renewal being on as standard, but if people have canceled it, then i would assume that people have also turned off auto renewal? Any source or more info around that?

Also:
>They have forwarded the complaint to Germany, as Nintendo of Europe is based there.
Didn't NoE's HQ move to Austria few years ago?
EDIT: Nope, they've got rid of 130 employees and moved to a different german city.

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Just to add to this, they also took the complaint to Germany because thats where they follow up the rules that applies to Europe in general.

 

[Pancakes R Us]

Totally agreed on the refund bit too. Digital refunds need to become a thing. From what I understand here, Microsoft and Valve already provides them.

 

[Skyfireblaze]

If I am not mistaken, you can cancel pre-orders in Europe (PS Store). It is possible to do pre-orders for "free" also (the payment will occur only when you want). This, of course, is not the same for America.

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I'm not sure but I think Sony changed this in the EU aswell so you have to pre-purchase right away. These practices should be banned outright.

Nah, that's stupid. The way steam handles the system is pretty good. Within 14 days of purchase you can return the game, given you played it less than 2 hours. Some people just buy and hoard games, there is no justification they should be able to return them two years later, because they decide they are short on money,

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But why not, it's the same with an unopened physical item.

 

[famikon]

Sony, on the other hand, will not let you cancel a preorder and literally said to me "sorry it's in our EULA so there's nothing anyone can do about it, you should have thought about that before you preordered."

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Not true, you can cancel any pre-order via support (email, phone, chat) in EU/UK. And the same applies to already released games, btw, if you didn't download them:

 

[Kolx]

That seems like an easy thing to fix. Just make people go online at least once to check their license in case they're trying to get a refund and play the game they already downloaded before release date.

 

[pswii60]

Most likely changing stances to match EU policies, given that the situation has been escalated.


Is Sony and Microsoft also doing this? I'm not aware for both of those platforms.

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You can cancel a Xbox pre-order and get an instant refund, just go in to your Microsoft account and you'll see the order history and a 'cancel' button next to any pre-orders. Super easy.

 

[SweetVermouth]

But why not, it's the same with an unopened physical item.

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You can buy a game, have it 2 years lying around unopenend and then just get your money back? Yeah no...

 

[Ganondolf]

Nintendo needs to change their pre-order system so that any pre-order bonus is only given when the purchase is made. And the purchase should only take place when the game is released.

I don't agree on the return of unplayed games. If the consumer makes an uninformed decision on a game purchase that their problem.

 

[Hamster Plugin]

You can cancel PSN pre-orders in Europe so that is no problem - they did change it so that you must pay for it immediately but they'll give your money back if you cancel. Nintendo is quite behind the times (and the law) here.

Not having any kind of refund feature is total shit though, from both Nintendo and Sony.

 

[chasingclouds]

Sony, on the other hand, will not let you cancel a preorder and literally said to me "sorry it's in our EULA so there's nothing anyone can do about it, you should have thought about that before you preordered."

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Sony does let you cancel all preorders in Europe at any point up to release date, as long as you haven't downloaded it yet (which you can't normally do until 2 says prior to release anyway.)