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GK86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,767
Link.

City lawmakers are acting to aid workers in the booming multi-billion dollar app-based food delivery industry, scheduling a vote for Thursday on a landmark slate of bills intended to ensure bathroom access, minimum pay and more.

The proposals were sparked by the activism of Los Deliveristas Unidos, an labor organization of immigrant delivery couriers who kept New Yorkers fed during the pandemic. Supporters say the New York City effort to provide minimum working standards for app-based couriers is the first of its kind in any major U.S. city, and hope the measures will influence local governments nationally.

The package of six bills would allow food couriers access to restaurant bathrooms, put limits on how far they can be asked to deliver, set minimum payments per trip and ensure that tips get to workers.

The City Council vote comes nearly a year after THE CITY first reported workers beginning to unite over the perilous and exploitative nature of app-based delivery work, including lack of bathroom access, alleged wage theft, insufficient pay, and reports of muggings and robberies.

Restaurant staff denying bathroom access became a galvanizing issue in the early days of the pandemic, as indoor dining shut down, as did most other restroom options — and the takeout business boomed.

The bill from Councilmember Carlina Rivera (D-Manhattan) would require most restaurants to allow delivery workers picking up an order to use the bathroom if requested.

The measure also would grant the city Department of Consumer and Worker Protection the power to fine bars and restaurants that deny restroom access to couriers up to $50 on the first offense and $100 for every subsequent violation.

Toño Solís, a delivery worker and member of the Deliveristas, told THE CITY that he earned just $5 for an hour-long trip to deliver a meal in Brooklyn from Astoria the night of the downpour, including tip.

He made just $115 during the 9.5 hour workday, roughly $12 an hour, with tips — lower than New York's $15-an-hour minimum wage. The apps treat couriers as independent contractors, not employees, leaving them exempt from minimum wage requirements.

A survey of 500 York City app-based food delivery workers released last week found that workers on average earn less than the state's minimum wage and that pay is often unreliable, with money coming in late and tips whittled down or missing.

Food delivery workers reported earning an average of $7.87 an hour before tips and about $12.21 an hour with tips included, far less than the $33 food delivery company DoorDash claims its Manhattan couriers earn.

The bill introduced by Lander, who is running for city comptroller, would establish minimum per-trip payments for delivery workers, similar to protections that the city's Uber and Lyft drivers already have in place.

The city Department of Consumer and Worker Protection would be obligated to study working conditions and then issue rules establishing minimum per-trip payments, which would not include tips. Another bill would require that food delivery apps disclose to customers what portion of their tip is distributed to workers, how the tip is paid to them and what amount of each tip is used to make up workers base pay.

Yet another measure would prohibit online delivery companies from charging workers any fees to receive wages and tips, as well as require them to pay couriers at least once a week and offer at least one payment option that doesn't require a bank account.

Bravo. Much needed and hopefully just a start.
 

cwmartin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,765
They'll all cry foul and complain about government overreach. It's fascinating to me that all these apps/companies can literally carve entire new market segments of a service based economy, and think the government is just going to let it fester unregulated!?? "On demand delivery app" did not exist as a legitimate market segment 15 years ago, and these companies have to play by the same rules as every other employer.
 

flyinj

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,953
The restaurants are also probably going to massively increase the mysterious "service and fees" payment section of an order

Already in my neighborhood in Brooklyn restaurants charge like $4 for delivery and $6-8 for "services and fees" on top of that. And these are places that are under half a mile from my house. You basically end up paying more than the meal itself for delivery after these two fees plus whatever tip you give.
 

bombermouse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,056
The restaurants are also probably going to massively increase the mysterious "service and fees" payment section of an order

Already in my neighborhood in Brooklyn restaurants charge like $4 for delivery and $6-8 for "services and fees" on top of that. And these are places that are under half a mile from my house. You basically end up paying more than the meal itself for delivery after these two fees plus whatever tip you give.

Sounds fair, delivery isn't cheap.
 
Oct 27, 2017
16,580
The restaurants are also probably going to massively increase the mysterious "service and fees" payment section of an order

Already in my neighborhood in Brooklyn restaurants charge like $4 for delivery and $6-8 for "services and fees" on top of that. And these are places that are under half a mile from my house. You basically end up paying more than the meal itself for delivery after these two fees plus whatever tip you give.
These fees piss me the hell off.
 

bye

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,423
Phoenix, AZ
The restaurants are also probably going to massively increase the mysterious "service and fees" payment section of an order

Already in my neighborhood in Brooklyn restaurants charge like $4 for delivery and $6-8 for "services and fees" on top of that. And these are places that are under half a mile from my house. You basically end up paying more than the meal itself for delivery after these two fees plus whatever tip you give.

That's your choice by getting delivery. Restaurants already run on razor thin margins, relying on tips, using delivery apps makes the margins even smaller for restaurants as you are diverting tips and revenue away. That's what's your service fee is for.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
That's your choice by getting delivery. Restaurants already run on razor thin margins, relying on tips, using delivery apps makes the margins even smaller for restaurants as you are diverting tips and revenue away. That's what's your service fee is for.

And it's on restaurants to not use services that cut too much on their margins. Their problem.

Glad I just moved to HelloFresh, I never order anymore.
 

sersteven

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,206
Philadelphia
The restaurants are also probably going to massively increase the mysterious "service and fees" payment section of an order

Already in my neighborhood in Brooklyn restaurants charge like $4 for delivery and $6-8 for "services and fees" on top of that. And these are places that are under half a mile from my house. You basically end up paying more than the meal itself for delivery after these two fees plus whatever tip you give.

To be fair, these restaurants are getting flooded with takeout orders now that they were never prepared to take on. I have a lot of friends in the industry living near a popular college town, and these apps have completely eschewed normal business operations for a lot of these places, for all level of employees.
Restaurants also now have to deal with creating and fostering new interior infrastructure and costs related to it. Smart devices to take the orders in on and alert staff, more takeout packaging, ways to introduce these apps into their existing ticketing systems for food, etc. That's on top of adjusting their existing services to still maintain normal operations but also basically be a takeout kitchen.

I still think it's insane that people expect these apps to be basically at cost. Why does it make sense that you using a third-party app, paying another human to drive their car from wherever they are to your restaurant of choice, then deliver to you, and not have increased cost? It is and should be, a luxury.

That said, super glad NYC is doing this and I really hope the fed takes up-regulating these gig economy apps more stringently. It'll increase cost, but service would get better with it, and eventually costs would go back down once things settle out and the economies of scale sort themselves out as newer kitchens redesign with these services in mind.
 

Maximo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,174
Whole industry needs a friggen wake up call, people should be being paid a livable wage across the food industry. It has always abused and underpaid people, but delivery apps have made it worse.
 

Spinluck

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
28,467
Chicago
Not being able to use restaurant restrooms as a food delivery guy and ride share driver was brutal. I have peed in so many random ally ways. I have marked territory all over Chicago especially downtown. Good on NYC making this happen.
 

pj-

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,659
There's a spot near me with a Shake Shack next door to a Chick fil A and there is never fewer than 20 delivery guys hanging out. I'm sure the super high traffic restaurants like that will bitch about the bathroom thing but something had to be done.
 

DekuBleep

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,712
These apps taking 30% of the bill from the restaurant is the craziest part IMO. If I am ordering from a regular place I always call to order or use their website. I try not to use these apps if I don't have to. But it is nice to be able to get take out from so many restaurants all in one app. I support fair wages. There was just some other thread where the OP was saying they make a lot more doing gig worker app delivery than they would working retail. So it sounds like a mixed bag.
 

Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,836
Wait, was there some instance where bathroom usage was denied that caused that part of the law to be written?

The restaurants are also probably going to massively increase the mysterious "service and fees" payment section of an order

Already in my neighborhood in Brooklyn restaurants charge like $4 for delivery and $6-8 for "services and fees" on top of that. And these are places that are under half a mile from my house. You basically end up paying more than the meal itself for delivery after these two fees plus whatever tip you give.

The restaurants typically already price their food higher on these services compared to what their prices are if you order at the restaurant.
 

LifeLine

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,779
If delivery apps cannot meet these requirements they deserve to fail so restaurants gain control of their delivery again.
 

bruhaha

Banned
Jun 13, 2018
4,122
The restaurants are also probably going to massively increase the mysterious "service and fees" payment section of an order

Already in my neighborhood in Brooklyn restaurants charge like $4 for delivery and $6-8 for "services and fees" on top of that. And these are places that are under half a mile from my house. You basically end up paying more than the meal itself for delivery after these two fees plus whatever tip you give.

If you don't want to pay more for delivery and the places are so close, why not just pick it up yourself? Do you think delivery workers don't deserve a decent wage and benefits?

Hopefully this effort doesn't get watered down through lobbying and end up like prop 22 in California.
 

akilshohen

Member
Dec 8, 2017
1,308
The restaurants typically already price their food higher on these services compared to what their prices are if you order at the restaurant.
They aren't supposed to, but I had an instance where postmates randomly increased the price on an item from $2 to $6.

Not sure if postmates still does it, but they would force restaurants to be on their app by putting the menu on their app and having a call center from the Philippines or India call in the order.
 

Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,836
They aren't supposed to, but I had an instance where postmates randomly increased the price on an item from $2 to $6.

Not sure if postmates still does it, but they would force restaurants to be on their app by putting the menu on their app and having a call center from the Philippines or India call in the order.

I've definitely have noticed prices not being the same on Door Dash compared to if I went there myself. Heck, I'm looking at it right now with something as simple as Taco Bell. A crunchy taco is supposed to be $1.69, but it's $2.03 on Door Dash. A crunchy taco supreme is $2.49 but it's $2.99 on Door Dash. Same exact location too.
 

akilshohen

Member
Dec 8, 2017
1,308
I've definitely have noticed prices not being the same on Door Dash compared to if I went there myself. Heck, I'm looking at it right now with something as simple as Taco Bell. A crunchy taco is supposed to be $1.69, but it's $2.03 on Door Dash. A crunchy taco supreme is $2.49 but it's $2.99 on Door Dash. Same exact location too.
Yeah. DoorDash is well known for that. They must not have an official contract with taco bell in that case.

It's scummy and when there's an error, the restaurant has to deal with the costumer's wrath.
 
Oct 27, 2017
45,194
Seattle
Many restaurants around us have raised their prices significantly across the board if you order through the app. Which I totally get. I've started to just get to go orders and pick them up myself.
 

JABEE

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,853
And it's on restaurants to not use services that cut too much on their margins. Their problem.

Glad I just moved to HelloFresh, I never order anymore.
Isn't it more and more difficult to stay open as a restaurant if you aren't on these services though?

If someone is looking for dinner, they open an app now more than ever before.

If you aren't on that app, you aren't a consideration. This is what the delivery services are all angling towards like Spotify did to music.

Discoverability and selling placement.
 

bruhaha

Banned
Jun 13, 2018
4,122
Isn't it more and more difficult to stay open as a restaurant if you aren't on these services though?

If someone is looking for dinner, they open an app now more than ever before.

If you aren't on that app, you aren't a consideration. This is what the delivery services are all angling towards like Spotify did to music.

Discoverability and selling placement.

I think it's up to restaurants to collectively educate the public on how much delivery actually costs. It's not just a tip and a $2 service fee, it is a significant additional percentage on the backend. The problem is lack of transparency. Form some sort of restaurant association and have more power instead of individually be bullied by the big app vendors.
 

Cosmic Bus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,012
NY
The fact that Grubhub is in full support of the bill tells me there's some real bullshit stashed away in it that hasn't become apparent yet. None of these companies are gonna put their endorsement behind truly pro-worker legislation.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
Isn't it more and more difficult to stay open as a restaurant if you aren't on these services though?

If someone is looking for dinner, they open an app now more than ever before.

If you aren't on that app, you aren't a consideration. This is what the delivery services are all angling towards like Spotify did to music.

Discoverability and selling placement.

Well they are free to not join. It's either a benefit or it isn't. Obviously if they feel to have to join and this reduces their margins they have to find a better solution. Personally I don't see why people really feel like they have to use those apps, unless you're travelling and then you usually go out to eat anyway. Once I like a restaurant, why order on some silly app if there's a bunch of fees? A website, an app, same shit. But if it ends up being the same cost as ordering from them directly then yeah I'll probably use it.

Anyway, they're businesses, who a lot of people here complain about for not paying their employees decent wages. So I'm personally not worried.

I just finished eating a delicious Moroccan orange chicken couscous, didn't have to think about what to buy thanks to HelloFresh, took less time to make than it would have to order, made it while watching a podcast on my iPad. Still have extra for tomorrow, costs about half as much as delivery.
 

JaseC64

Enlightened
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,008
Strong Island NY
Can anyone in NYC just walk into a business and use their bathroom? I would hope so, specially to delivery ppl.

I remember a few years ago, me and my friend went to Maker Fair I think its call in NYC. We had to walk a bit from the parking. Anyways on the way there we literally walk into some business and asked if we could use the rest room and they let us. (I don't recall what it was) Kinda glad lol as I had to pee really bad lol.