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Owl House creator says series ending is due to one executive at Disney

Saucycarpdog

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,351
Owl House creator Dana Terrace did an AMA on Reddit and revealed details of why the show is coming to an end so soon.

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com www.reddit.com

This was the interesting part.
SO WHAT WAS IT?! At the end of the day, there are a few business people who oversee what fits into the Disney brand and one day one of those guys decided TOH didn't fit that "brand". The story is serialized (BARELY compared to any average anime lmao), our audience skews older, and that just didn't fit this one guy's tastes. That's it! Ain't that wild? Really grinds my guts, boils my brain, kicks my shins, all the things. It sucks but it is what it is.

In any case, there are still a lot of awesome TOH episodes left to come out, and all the support IS seen and appreciated. Not only does it support the crew but it encourages studios to take bigger risks on shows coming down the pipeline. And, who knows? Maybe there's a future for the Owl House world if DTV has different people in charge.
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She does also address whether the LGBTQ representation was the cause.
Was it the LGBT+ rep? While we have had issues airing in a few countries (and are just straight up banned in a few more) I'm not gonna assume bad faith against the people I work with in LA.
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I thought this was an interesting look into how Disney TV operates.
 
Divvy

Divvy

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,917
Anyone who's worked in tv and has dealt with execs would not be surprised by this at all
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,190
How much older did it skew? Unless they are pivoting away from stuff they've had in the past like Star vs. the Forces of Evil and Gravity Falls, I'm not sure what kind of excuse that is. Even Duck Tales is serialized. Plus they have like XD if they want to move it (maybe it is on XD already).
 
PlanetSmasher

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
115,740
Considering how Disney randomly murdered DuckTales out of the blue this doesn't surprise me.
 
mreddie

mreddie

Member
Oct 26, 2017
44,116
Why is it always one suit who fucks it up for everyone? It's also weird since Amphibia also is beat per beat like TOH but it's getting the full season.
 
hikarutilmitt

hikarutilmitt

Member
Dec 16, 2017
11,423
I'm glad to see that, while it's certainly a possibility, they're not assuming malice around the LGBT+ representation being a (or the) cause. The rest of it honestly tracks pretty much like I'd expect. And I'd imagine a couple of other shows (mentioned in the below quote) had the same thing happen, as well as...

mrmoose said:
How much older did it skew? Unless they are pivoting away from stuff they've had in the past like Star vs. the Forces of Evil and Gravity Falls, I'm not sure what kind of excuse that is. Even Duck Tales is serialized. Plus they have like XD if they want to move it (maybe it is on XD already).
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There's also a piece of Disney TV that they have a strong, almost clockwork, tendency to only have a show on for what comes out to 3 seasons (in that era) so they can just run that. You'll notice this time and again since the Disney Afternoon shows were airing. It was amazing the original DuckTales series even got a 4th season. Talespin has a single "season" of 65 episodes, though. Darkwing had like 90 some odd episodes across 3 seasons, too. Looking it up RR was also around 65 episodes for 3 seasons.

It's just their thing. With their older crowds, or maybe what's intended as their older crowds, the ones that watch live action shows, it follows a similar production. At most they might make a sequel series.
 
jwk94

jwk94

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,422
What is it with american companies thinking kids can't take serialized shows? This is the age of streaming and binging. If a kid needs to catch-up, it's never been easier.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,190
hikarutilmitt said:
I'm glad to see that, while it's certainly a possibility, they're not assuming malice around the LGBT+ representation being a (or the) cause. The rest of it honestly tracks pretty much like I'd expect. And I'd imagine a couple of other shows (mentioned in the below quote) had the same thing happen, as well as...


There's also a piece of Disney TV that they have a strong, almost clockwork, tendency to only have a show on for what comes out to 3 seasons (in that era) so they can just run that. You'll notice this time and again since the Disney Afternoon shows were airing. It was amazing the original DuckTales series even got a 4th season. Talespin has a single "season" of 65 episodes, though. Darkwing had like 90 some odd episodes across 3 seasons, too. Looking it up RR was also around 65 episodes for 3 seasons.

It's just their thing. With their older crowds, or maybe what's intended as their older crowds, the ones that watch live action shows, it follows a similar production. At most they might make a sequel series.
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It's not just Disney TV, the prevailing thought in kids programming is that your audience ages out after a certain number of years so you should reboot or come up with something new, since the next generation doesn't want to watch "old" stuff anymore (or buy the merchandise, though I don't think Owl House or Amphibia even have any merchandise). For the live action stuff, the kids age quickly, unless they move them to a new show like they did with the kids in Jessie.
 
Divvy

Divvy

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,917
mreddie said:
Why is it always one suit who fucks it up for everyone? It's also weird since Amphibia also is beat per beat like TOH but it's getting the full season.
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Here's the thing. Execs think they "created" the show, they think they're "saving" it when they force changes. Which is a problem when most of them have zero talent
 
MaverickHunterX

MaverickHunterX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,184
Wish she'd named names. Yeah, yeah, I know. Career suicide, but Disney animated series (at least, the non-marvel ones) have been killing it over their Competition. There's no reason to rush them out the door like that.
 
Ashlette

Ashlette

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,254
a reminder that disney likes to pride itself on being inclusive to lgbtq+ folks then pulls shit like this. a perfect example of having cake and eating it too.
 
Roliq

Roliq

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Sep 23, 2018
6,196
That executive sucks ass, literally have Star Wars, Marvel and Kingdom Hearts that do much shit that is not on "brand "
 
Rendering...

Rendering...

Member
Oct 30, 2017
19,089
Imagine all the good things that were prematurely killed or never made due to the idiosyncratic whims of creatively bereft executives. It's enough to get you worked up.
 
Westbahnhof

Westbahnhof

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
10,108
Austria
While it's nice to give the benefit of the doubt, for those who don't know, the show doesn't mess around when it comes to LGBTQ representation.
I could absolutely see it rubbing (terrible) people the wrong way.
 
MaverickHunterX

MaverickHunterX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,184
PlanetSmasher said:
Considering how Disney randomly murdered DuckTales out of the blue this doesn't surprise me.
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Ive been hearing recent rumors that DT was canned over ratings. Thing is that Disney XD ALWAYS has low ratings, so it's a given. Like when Gravity Falls was moved to XD, it went from like a 2.5/3m per episode to barely 1m each.

These shows are being set up for failure.

Tabaxi said:
Yeah, that's my question. Shows can and have been canceled for skewing older than their intended audience, since that effects advertising. But the fact it was apparently only one executive who thought it was an issue makes it suspect.
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Again, I'm dumb, so I gotta ask: why does this skewing shit matter? For the last big 3 (Gravity Falls, Adventure Time, Regular Show), I saw just as many adults get into the series/buy merch as much or more than kids. So, why does it matter who gives Disney their money?
 
Gravidee

Gravidee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,362
Maybe it should become a Disney+ series instead of a Disney Channel one? Seems like you run into all sorts of these executive problems if the series airs on cable.
 
FulcrumTK

FulcrumTK

Member
Oct 6, 2020
997
It really sucks that how many episodes a show gets depends less on the quality or even the ratings of the show and more on the opinions of a few executives.
Danby said:
I'm still hoping that they eventually change their mind about a Kingdom Hearts series.
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Huh, I guess I missed that the plans for a Kingdom Hearts series on Disney+ fell through. That's a shame.
 
Capra

Capra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,620
Meanwhile: "You Won't Believe Who Just Became Disney's First Ever Gay Character in The Little Mermaid Live Action Remake!!"

It's Jetsam. You know, the eel. No not that one the other one.
 
Danby

Danby

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 7, 2020
3,016
FulcrumTK said:
It really sucks that how many episodes a show gets depends less on the quality or even the ratings of the show and more on the opinions of a few executives.

Huh, I guess I missed that the plans for a Kingdom Hearts series on Disney+ fell through. That's a shame.
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Okay, so I was talking about the series from like 2002. https://lostmediaarchive.fandom.com/wiki/Kingdom_Hearts_(Unfinished_and_Cancelled_Disney_Show)
But I missed the news about D+ show? So I guess that's still a thing. Thanks for inadvertently updating me.
 
Divvy

Divvy

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,917
Rendering... said:
Imagine all the good things that were prematurely killed or never made due to the idiosyncratic whims of creatively bereft executives. It's enough to get you worked up.
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Sometimes the exec handling the show changes and you'll get completely different opinion on how the show should run mid season. Or the new one doesn't "have faith" in the show and cancels it.

Sometimes you'll have multiple execs demanding changes that directly contradict each other!
 
Alpheus

Alpheus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,655
Disney still on that dumb bullshit where they nip stuff that will be well on it's way to becoming new nostalgia in the bud cuz....marketing; the imbeciles.
 
Cantaim

Cantaim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,360
The Stussining
Execs not liking the demographics watching the show and axing the show as a result is nothing new sadly. Young Justice also met a similar date back in the day because while people tuned in. The demographic they wanted weren't. Hopefully this has the same story where it comes back after a few years thanks to fan demand.
 
Magister Xehanort

Magister Xehanort

Member
Sep 5, 2021
3,036
Be Cool is one of the best shows of Scooby-Doo and the creator of the series also had to deal with several problems in the production of the series:

I found in a forum one of the creators of Be Cool commenting on the problems in the production of the series:

  • Eh, people were getting used to the animation and look of it. That wasn't the problem. WB made huge mistakes right from the beginning (including the look of it, which was there before Zac and I arrived - we pulled it back from being even worse). We needed the more cartoony look for the comedy, which people began to understand as they gave it a chance. The real problem was that WB and CN didn't give the show a chance, didn't trust Zac and I to just make the show we knew we should make, so they interfered way too much early on - which, when they saw it was a mistake, held up production and made me rewrite the first 8-10 episodes from scratch (1-3 days a piece instead of 4-5 weeks a piece, which is normal) and wasted hundreds of thousands of dollars. They hired "Phieas & Ferb" guys and then didn't trust us to know what we were talking about when we said "THIS is how we made "Phineas," THIS is why it was a hit."
  • Then, they couldn't suddenly admit they had been wrong, so they blamed all the hold-ups on me and Zac and we never really caught up until near the end of first season - while we still actually to manage to make a bunch of really great, fun first season shows. By second season they stopped getting in our way as much (that was their version of admitting they were wrong - by leaving us alone more). We made a great second season, until they saw how great it was, then they gave someone else all the credit, fired Zac and stuck me, creatively, under a non-writer who thought they were a better writer than I was. Everything went downhill from there. Nobody who had anything to do with the creation of that show or what made it great was rewarded (I was never made a producer on the show) and they almost acted like if the show did catch on and become a hit, then they'd have to give me and Zac credit and lose face for having never trusted us, so they buried it out of ego.
  • Whatever. I hope you all see second season (and they didn't destroy it) and I hope you like it. I'm just really pissed off now that the streaming service is here and has also totally blown it. What a waste of time and money.
  • Thanks, Doo - Just to clarify, they didn't exactly "fire" Zac, he walked off in disgust because WB allowed certain crew members to take too much power and get too much credit because they played politics, were at WB longer and were WB's "pets" - so they could o what they wanted and had the top brass' ears, into which they whispered how they could do a better job than Zac and I. Zac is one of the nicest, fairest and most egoless people you'll ever meet in Hollywood, who is also one of the most talented. Usually those two don't go hand in hand, but somehow Zac makes it work. He's an saint of a guy - and absolutely brilliant. That kind of style is just not in keeping with WB's current managerial style, so Zac appeared "weak" and the water was chummed and the sharks attacked. Every move they made was a creative mistake for the show, but if an arrogant jerk suggests it, WB believes it MUST be right! Zac just got tired of fighting against a machine that clearly didn't respect what and how he was doing to make a great show, so he bailed. I was Zac's second in command - I was the head writer, story editor and uncredited co-creator/developer of the series. It would have been natural, since even WB considered me "the voice of the show,' to promote me to producer and allow me to have some creative control over what happens AFTER the scripts were complete (important things, like being in voice records to make sure the lines I wrote were delivered correctly, etc), but no, once Zac left, I was NOT demoted, I just lost my direct line to the top of the creative power structure and the people who took his place thought THEY knew better, so I was basically left in my office churning out great scripts without any control over making sure they were executed correctly like I had with Zac. If Zac wasn't sure about something in the script, he'd walk in my office and ask me what I meant. That stopped happening and board artists and directors were given permission to rewrite at will - most of the time for stuff that they wouldn't have rewritten had they understood what the intention was or what the function of it was in the story structure. They all really talented artists - but none of them are trained writers.
  • Animation (especially kids animation) is made up of a bunch of artists who went to art school and they're brilliant, trained artists, not writers - which takes JUST as much training and practice. It's the old cliche - EVERYBODY thinks they're a writer because words on a page look like words on a page - unlike ART, which you can tell when someone has gone to school and is trained and learned the craft of drawing and animating. They all think, "I'm funny! I can write this!" without having any idea what there-act structure is, what character arcs are, how to create character driven comedy, how to structure and build a story and keep your character's voices and action unique and individual to that character. It's all just so common in Hollywood. The WGA is about to go on strike again because the studios and producers don't want to give writers the tiniest, little bit more (in fact, while Hollywood is raking in record profits, writer salaries are going down). It's the oldest story in the book (ironically, because "books" need writers).
  • I'm sorry to rant, here, folks, and I'm expecting to get a stern letter from WB telling me to shut up, but I'm so sick and tired of haven been treated like crap at that place, being basically out-right told they didn't want me there - BUT - they couldn't do the show without me, so they'll grudgingly let me stay because the show if funny and no one else seems to able to write it correctly. I'm sorry, but we made a GREAT show and if everyone who had the power had done the right things to give the show a good chance of finding an audience, they would have had a hit Scooby Doo show. I don't care what any of the "haters" (God, I despise that word) say. BCSD was the a great funny show with great, well-rounded characters that would have caught on and would have one day been considered one of the top 3 best Scooby series of all time. There's no way of knowing now. They sunk it, instead. Lord forbid Zac and I were right all along. Sorry, I'm having a grumpy day. End of rant.
  • Thanks for the kind words, as always, Doo. Technically, Zac wasn't fired, but they tied his hands and made it impossible to do his job, so he left.
  • I also wasn't "demoted," as I remained story editor until I left, but the person who took over for Zac took me out of the loop - so I couldn't make sure the scripts were being executed properly once completed or be in the room when there was a creative problem to help solve. BCSD was a very script driven show and very difficult to write - even for many brilliant veteran writers. But people tend to assume writing is easy or anybody can do it. They fail to understand that the amazing animation artists became that good because they went to school for it, practiced it, worked at it for years and learned their craft - and the same thing applies to writers. They mistake "being funny" or being able to come up with funny ideas as "writing," which requires an understanding of character arcs, act structure, plot points, pacing, etc, etc. The problem is if you took a trained artist and a non-trained artist and asked both to draw. Any layman off the street could look at both drawings and guess who the professional artist is. If you did the same with a trained and untrained writer, the layman would see same thing when he looked at what they produced: words on a page.
  • I've heard much of second season turned out well. I imagine the problems will begin towards the last few episodes after Zac left and then they put me on hiatus when I finished the last script and completed production for 6-7 months without ANY writer on staff at all. Hopefully, they'll drop the rest of season 1 and all of season 2 on the streaming service (or anywhere) soon. There's so much great stuff I'm excited for you guys to see it.
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www.resetera.com

US HBO Max stealth drops "Be Cool Scooby-Doo!" and "Scooby Doo! And Guess Who?" shows. Video/Streaming

These were not on the schedule, so this was part of the few "surprise" releases HBO Max sometimes does. Some movies were also added, but considering the films come in and out, I have no idea if they are new to the US service or not. For reference for Scooby Doo fans, these are the shows...
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com
 
Naijaboy

Naijaboy

The Fallen
Mar 13, 2018
15,293
Disney Channel execs just can't help themselves. Nearly every show with wide appeal gets canned within 3 seasons? What chance does Amphibia have?
 
lunarworks

lunarworks

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,169
Toronto
jwk94 said:
What is it with american companies thinking kids can't take serialized shows? This is the age of streaming and binging. If a kid needs to catch-up, it's never been easier.
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I'm pretty sure it has to do with syndication. TV stations looking to fill their schedule want something people can just sit down and watch.

Streaming kills that old excuse, though.
 
Tabaxi

Tabaxi

Member
Nov 18, 2018
12,900
MaverickHunterX said:
Again, I'm dumb, so I gotta ask: why does this skewing shit matter? For the last big 3 (Gravity Falls, Adventure Time, Regular Show), I saw just as many adults get into the series/buy merch as much or more than kids. So, why does it matter who gives Disney their money?
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It's about attracting advertisers to the station. If a network mostly profits off advertisers aiming at a certain age group, and that age group isn't watching a particular show, then that can negatively impact how much money they get from running ads on that show.

But from what Dana said, that doesn't seem to be the issue here.
 
RecLib

RecLib

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,365
Don't worry Disney will announce their 8th first openly gay character in a movie soon.
 
MaverickHunterX

MaverickHunterX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,184
Magister Xehanort said:
Be Cool is one of the best shows of Scooby-Doo and the creator of the series also had to deal with several problems in the production of the series:



www.resetera.com

US HBO Max stealth drops "Be Cool Scooby-Doo!" and "Scooby Doo! And Guess Who?" shows. Video/Streaming

These were not on the schedule, so this was part of the few "surprise" releases HBO Max sometimes does. Some movies were also added, but considering the films come in and out, I have no idea if they are new to the US service or not. For reference for Scooby Doo fans, these are the shows...
www.resetera.com www.resetera.com
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Maybe I misread that, but when this guy says that the Phineas & Ferb guys fucked with him, is he talking about povermire and marsh, the creators? I always thought they were cool guys, remembering them to their Rocko days. I'll admit, P&F is hit and miss with me, but I liked Milo Murphy. It would suck if they were two faced, too.
 
Elandyll

Elandyll

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,822
Seems they don't know what to do with 3 cable channels.
Disney jr is pretty clear in its direction, but DC and DXD have both the same target demo, XD "supposedly" being more for boys (which is stupid, but i guess that helps selling targeted ads).
Then they visibly tried to widen the public demo/ gender with quality shows, betwen Gravity Fallls, SvstFoE, Duck Tales, Amphibia or TOH, the programming became psychotic.

More audience on Disney Channel!
More ad revenue on Disney XD!
But Disney XD is meant for boys 6-11!
Who cares we have D+ !

That is if we assume nothing more nefarious was at play, of course.

Sigh
 
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Mars People

Mars People

Comics Council 2020
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,196
I don't understand why in the age of anime being as popular and ubiquitous as ever, American animation feels like its still struggling in the dark age.
 
Dyno

Dyno

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,319
I dont watch the show but this seems kinda stupid. I kind of can understand some very small qualms with it having an adult skewed audience on channels with a target demographic of kids. Not that I'd assume the content is the issue, rather it just not being the target audience. But with that being the case why not just shuffle it off to a D+ exclusive or something? It never hurts to have more content and they're just throwing away an established audience
 
Pargon

Pargon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,020
Capra said:
Meanwhile: "You Won't Believe Who Just Became Disney's First Ever Gay Character in The Little Mermaid Live Action Remake!!"
It's Jetsam. You know, the eel. No not that one the other one.
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I assume it will have the usual follow-up of: "Well, they're not actually gay, just queer-coded - and if you want to believe they are gay, you are free to do so."
Fuck Disney.
 
nonoriri

nonoriri

Member
Apr 30, 2020
4,241
LifeLine said:
Because if you like a show it means it's reaching the wrong demo.
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Which is odd because I've always felt like Disney shows are created to be also enjoyable to adults so parents can watch with their kids and not be miserable. So if you make it appealing, it shouldn't be surprising that adults without kids might end up watching the show and enjoying it too.

Mars People said:
I don't understand why in the age of anime being as popular and ubiquitous as ever, American animation feels like its still struggling in the dark age.
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I dunno, American animation has been hitting some pretty big highs over the past few years. Between Owl House, She-Ra, Kipo, etc. there's been a lot of quality products if they're given the chance.
 
OP
OP
Saucycarpdog

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,351
Gravidee said:
Maybe it should become a Disney+ series instead of a Disney Channel one? Seems like you run into all sorts of these executive problems if the series airs on cable.
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They didn't even give them that chance either.

So it was the ratings? That argument doesn't hold water either. Our ratings were GOOD (for a Channel show during the streaming wars lmao) but they were also incomplete. This decision was made, to my knowledge, before Agony of a Witch premiered and WELL before we were on Disney +. Also, how are you gonna judge ratings when you don't rerun the show you're trying to measure? Get OUTTA here you silly billies.
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SilentSoldier

SilentSoldier

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,456
Wish Disney cared more about their cartoons like CN did ( pre their Teen Titans Go wank) shows like Adventure Time, Regular Show, and Gumball wouldn't be nearly as good as they were if they only got 3 seasons. Especially Adventure Time cause that show exploded in lore in it's later seasons.

We got serious, serialized long form storytelling in the 90s from shows like X-Men, Gargoyles, Spiderman. Sucks how companies these days think so little of children's capacity to follow along stories.
 
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