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Jan 19, 2020
636
Bellingham
Man, i cant believe April is gone and we still dont have a PS5 reveal. Insane. We thought we were getting this in February.

At this point, i am resigned to a June reveal. Wouldnt be surprised if their May event got delayed thanks to Coronavirus. I mean how do you put together an event, even a digital one while working from home. my productivity has dipped significantly WFH and i work 9-5. these devs work 12-16 hour days. Dont see them putting in those hours working from home.

And then there are production values, i was watching SNL videos and other late night shows and man they look cheaper than most CoD youtubers. it will be interesting to see what Microsoft does next week. But i couldve sworn Sony wouldve loved to go first and set the bar like they did last gen.



Same. I really loved the first game. it felt like a true next gen game at the time even though the visuals looked far worse than uncharted and kz2.

I cant believe Sony didnt remake Motorstorm, kz, resistance and infamous. hell, i wouldve taken a 60 fps remaster like the uncharted trilogy.
I think the reason we haven't gotten that big reveal yet is that now days things cycle through the news so fast and they don't want to release too much info too quickly and not have anything exciting to talk about once everybody moves on to whatever the next big news item is. It seems to me like they drop a tidbit of information every six months or so and once we get about six months out from release we'll have the big reveal followed by a steadier stream of game showcases from first and third party developers all the way up until launch so as to keep everyone's attention. That's my 2.23 cents anyway.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,278
Houston, TX
I think the reason we haven't gotten that big reveal yet is that now days things cycle through the news so fast and they don't want to release too much info too quickly and not have anything exciting to talk about once everybody moves on to whatever the next big news item is. It seems to me like they drop a tidbit of information every six months or so and once we get about six months out from release we'll have the big reveal followed by a steadier stream of game showcases from first and third party developers all the way up until launch so as to keep everyone's attention. That's my 2.23 cents anyway.
If your logic rings true, then we'll probably get our blowout next month.
 

disco_potato

Member
Nov 16, 2017
3,145
If the goal is BC with physical copies of PS3 games then there would be no need for re-licensing right?
How would they make money off ps3 BC if they can't sell you those ps3 games?
I'd assume they'd want to get BC working with all past PS consoles but it might not be a profitable endeavor if they can't sell you those games or put them all on PSNow.
 
Aug 9, 2018
666
How would they make money off ps3 BC if they can't sell you those ps3 games?
I'd assume they'd want to get BC working with all past PS consoles but it might not be a profitable endeavor if they can't sell you those games or put them all on PSNow.
Of course they will also sell digital copies of their own PS3 games if PS3 BC is being considered at all. Not everyone will still have their PS3 discs anyway but I don't see any reason for them not to offer physical BC to PS3 discs if they can make it work for digital.
 

Adum

Member
May 30, 2019
923
The whole "100 games playable at launch" debacle was about ps4 games running on ps5 boost mode.
The issue is that some devs still tie frame rate to clocks. You boost clocks, frames go up, some other things that rely on frame rate get wacky.
Just look a the various issues Bungie had with destiny 2 on PC. Weapons doing crazy amounts of damage because they were designed around 30fps.
I'm talking more about games like God of War PS4 Pro performance mode where the target is 60fps but the game ends up running more around 40-50fps. With the PS5 BC, will we get that exact same performance in God of War or will Sony utilize the extra horsepower in the PS5 to push that game to run at a locked 60fps?
 

nolifebr

Banned
Sep 1, 2018
11,465
Curitiba/BR
I'm talking more about games like God of War PS4 Pro performance mode where the target is 60fps but the game ends up running more around 40-50fps. With the PS5 BC, will we get that exact same performance in God of War or will Sony utilize the extra horsepower in the PS5 to push that game to run at a locked 60fps?

I think those type of games will run/look better without the need for any tweak/patch.
 

Joo

Member
May 25, 2018
3,864
I'm talking more about games like God of War PS4 Pro performance mode where the target is 60fps but the game ends up running more around 40-50fps. With the PS5 BC, will we get that exact same performance in God of War or will Sony utilize the extra horsepower in the PS5 to push that game to run at a locked 60fps?
Well as it already has an unlocked frame rate on Pro, it'll probably go to 60fps on PS5 with no input needed. I think it's pretty much a given that first-party games like GoW will have their performance boosted one way or the other.
 

Dizastah

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,124
native 4k (3840 x 2160) is exactly 8.29M pixels. 18% less of that is 6.8M pixels. Closest perfectly scaleable rez to that is 3520 x 1980 which comes in at 6.9M pixels.

That's where I expect PS5 games to sit if they are trying to match 1:1 graphical parity with the XSX at the same framerates. Unless the XSX is running at said fps and rez with a lot of overhead to begin with.

Either way... I look at things like that and can't help but feel its a gross waste of resources.

Just give me checkerboard 1800p/60fps. I'm 200% fine with that.
 

disco_potato

Member
Nov 16, 2017
3,145
I'm talking more about games like God of War PS4 Pro performance mode where the target is 60fps but the game ends up running more around 40-50fps. With the PS5 BC, will we get that exact same performance in God of War or will Sony utilize the extra horsepower in the PS5 to push that game to run at a locked 60fps?
Yes, that would fall under PS5 "boost mode". It's not using the PS4 legacy modes, just running off base PS5 hardware.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,991
Well as it already has an unlocked frame rate on Pro, it'll probably go to 60fps on PS5 with no input needed. I think it's pretty much a given that first-party games like GoW will have their performance boosted one way or the other.
Yeah, like games that didn't hit a stable 30fps on base PS4 did better on the Pro.

If GoW is running between 40-50 then I would assume it would go to 60.
 

disco_potato

Member
Nov 16, 2017
3,145
Of course they will also sell digital copies of their own PS3 games if PS3 BC is being considered at all. Not everyone will still have their PS3 discs anyway but I don't see any reason for them not to offer physical BC to PS3 discs if they can make it work for digital.
I'd assume they'd need to use a laser that reads all previous formats including the respective encryption they used each gen. I've no clue if a regular BR laser does that or not.
 
Aug 9, 2018
666
I'd assume they'd need to use a laser that reads all previous formats including the respective encryption they used each gen. I've no clue if a regular BR laser does that or not.
Well PS3 discs are Blu-Ray discs so I don't think there is a need for a new laser, I think that only applies if it needs to read DVD/CD discs. Encryption should be software side AFAIK.
 

Its Dead Jim

Member
Jan 11, 2018
339
Ceti Alpha V
Hmmmm.... so you have 4TF, 10TF and 12TF.

You say the 4TF wouldn't matter or make a difference and its only limitation would be the resolution.

How is it not contradictory if the same logic is not applied to the PS5? How does all of a sudden resolution then matter when t comes to the PS5?

And the lowest common denominator for next-gen will never be PC. I don;t even understand how anyone can suggest an open platform is ever the base platform. Especially if the basis of your argument is where "many people play". Like, have you really looked at sales f test games? Do you realize that over 80% of most game sales are primarily on consoles? And yet somehow, devs would prioritize the platform where they make the least money even when its the only platform that allows user upgradability?

Like that just sounds ridiculous. Do you realize that all it takes is a $50 investment today towards adding a 256GB NVMe SSD into a PC? And yet, you expect devs to still design ages around a mechanical HDD because of PC/ Come on....
What are you even talking about?! The vast majority of games release on PC as well as console and, as has been pointed out many times, the least performant platform is NEVER used as the priority. Games are designed at the high end and scaled DOWN.

Think about it, if games were built with the lowest denominator in mind then the OG Xbox One would have 1080p games with locked frames and the games would scale UP to other platforms. We know this isn't the case though dont we?

In terms of the power/TFs, of course it matters to some extent, how much it matters to each individual is up to them. Games will run at a lower res on Lockhart and the highest res on XSX, with PS5 on average just behind XSX. XSX will likely have higher fps and better RT than PS5 too, on average.

The Lockhart is perfect for my son, for example who plays on a 1080p monitor. It would not be ideal for me as I play on a 4K tv so I'll get the XSX.
 

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
What are you even talking about?! The vast majority of games release on PC as well as console and, as has been pointed out many times, the least performant platform is NEVER used as the priority. Games are designed at the high end and scaled DOWN.

Think about it, if games were built with the lowest denominator in mind then the OG Xbox One would have 1080p games with locked frames and the games would scale UP to other platforms. We know this isn't the case though dont we?

In terms of the power/TFs, of course it matters to some extent, how much it matters to each individual is up to them. Games will run at a lower res on Lockhart and the highest res on XSX, with PS5 on average just behind XSX. XSX will likely have higher fps and better RT than PS5 too, on average.

The Lockhart is perfect for my son, for example who plays on a 1080p monitor. It would not be ideal for me as I play on a 4K tv so I'll get the XSX.
Alright... Its safe to assume you have your wires crossed.

You are technically correct, but getting some of your details wrong.

Current-gen games, or any multiplatform game you are seeing across consoles and PC, ARE BUILT, not FOR, but WITH the lowest performance platform in mind. And the three primary things that dictate what that lowest performant platform is are CPU, RAM quantity, and Storage medium. You simply can't go around that. You have to design your entire engine around those three pillars, or else you end up with a game that would require a ridiculous amount of retooling to allow you porting it to another platform.

That is why your rez point falls flat, because that's the one thing in all this that is scalable. The GPU is actually the least important part of your ability to have games on multiple platforms. Why? because all you would need to do is drop the rez to make it fit. But you can't make an engine that requires 60% of 7 ryzen 3 CPU cores running at 3.5Ghz and expect the same engine to run on a jaguar CPU. You cannot build an engine that deals with 8GB of active RAM at over 400GB/s of bandwidth and has a RAM scrapheap of around 6GB and expect that to fit into a 5GB total RAM budget.

The bar gets raised every single time new consoles come out. Thats simply because even though games are released across consoles and PC, the majority of the sales are always with the consoles. Devs go where the money is. With next-gen, the new bar is going to be at least 8 core Ryzen CPU, at least 24GB of total RAM(16GB CPU + 8GB GPU) and at least an NVMe SSD capable of speeds over 2GB/s. If you are gaming on the PC and you have anything less than that, your experience would be worse on PC than it would be on consoles.

With regards to your power gap theory... as I have already surmised, when it comes to a GPU difference, it simply comes down to resolution tweaks. Look at it this way, you are either doing everything at the same resolution across both consoles and then having the weaker one running at a lower framerate, or you are keeping the frame rate fixed, doing everything else the same, and dropping the rez on the weaker console. Its really that simple. Pixel pushing doesn't come free. I would think you would know this, but RT cost is also directly tied to how many pixels you are pushing. So it would also scale up r down with your resolution.

And yes, how important this is to people would vary... but good luck trying to spot the difference between native 2160p and native 1980p.
 
Last edited:

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,815
Australia
Alright... Its safe to assume you have your wires crossed.

You are technically correct, but getting some of your details wrong.

Current-gen games, or any multiplatform game you are seeing across consoles and PC, ARE BUILT, not FOR, but WITH the lowest performance platform in mind. And the three primary things that dictate what that lowest performant platform is are CPU, RAM quantity, and Storage medium. You simply can't go around that. You have to design your entire engine around those three pillars, or else you end up with a game that would require a ridiculous amount of retooling to allow you porting it to another platform.

That is why your rez point falls flat, because that's the one thing in all this that is scalable. The GPU is actually the least important part of your ability to have games on multiple platforms. Why? because all you would need to do is drop the rez to make it fit. But you can't make an engine that requires 60% of 7 ryzen 3 CPU cores running at 3.5Ghz and expect the same engine to run on a jaguar CPU. You cannot build an engine that deals with 8GB of active RAM at over 400GB/s of bandwidth and has a RAM scrapheap of around 6GB and expect that to fit into a 5GB total RAM budget.

The bar gets raised every single time new consoles come out. Thats simply because even though games are released across consoles and PC, the majority of the sales are always with the consoles. Devs go where the money is. With next-gen, the new bar is going to be at least 8 core Ryzen CPU, at least 24GB of total RAM(16GB CPU + 8GB GPU) and at least an NVMe SSD capable of speeds over 2GB/s. If you are gaming on the PC and you have anything less than that, your experience would be worse on PC than it would be on consoles.

With regards to your power gap theory... as I have already surmised, when it comes to a GPU difference, it simply comes down to resolution tweaks. Look at it this way, you are either doing everything at the same resolution across both consoles and then having the weaker one running at a lower framerate, or you are keeping the frame rate fixed, doing everything else the same, and dropping the rez on the weaker console. Its really that simple. Pixel pushing doesn't come free. I would think you would know this, but RT cost is also directly tied to how many pixels you are pushing. So it would also scale up r down with your resolution.

And yes, how important this is to people would vary... but good luck trying to spot the difference between native 2160p and native 1980p.

Yep. And before anyone goes "yeah but what about Switch ports" - the Switch ports of current games we've seen have required a shitload of extra dev work done after the fact, require massive concessions and visuals and (usually) performance, and, most importantly, do not cover anything even close to every current-gen game.
 

Babadook

self-requsted ban
Banned
Nov 11, 2017
192
It is not unreasonable to suggest that the actual performance differential between the two consoles from a pure 'power' perspective will be noticable. Whether that be in higher res, better RT, frame rates etc.

I find that unlikely. An 18% divide in compute won't usually manifest itself in any noticeable visual improvement. 18% more pixels (as a prime example) is not noticeable without a pause and zoom. That percentage is also a rough estimate of real performance, because when differences such as development tools and pipeline, which appear to be in Sony's favour, and VRS vs geometry engine which some are also saying gives ps5 an advantage, could eliminate or reverse that 18% metric. I think it's far more likely these consoles end up dead locked at parity at launch. With their different strengths playing out later in 2021 and beyond.
 

Marble

Banned
Nov 27, 2017
3,819
Has this been posted? This dude credible or a bit of a fanboy?


Locked 4K 60 'should not be a problem' on both consoles
  • Both systems will be practically 'identical' in performance
  • Consensus among devs is the PS5 is much faster (loading etc)
  • Sony have done 'things' with latency that mean 'certain tasks require half the resources now'
  • 'One console (Xbox) has 10 second loading screens, the other (PS5) has none' No loading screens
  • Resolution is not going to be a thing this time round, both consoles will be 4k machines for the most part
  • Xbox at best with very generous math is 20% more powerful but this will not make a difference as it's half that of the difference between One X and PS4 Pro

Edit: Sorry, I see it's a pretty old video (beginning of April), so probably already posted. Still curious if he's credible or not.
 
Oct 26, 2017
6,151
United Kingdom
Alright... Its safe to assume you have your wires crossed.

You are technically correct, but getting some of your details wrong.

Current-gen games, or any multiplatform game you are seeing across consoles and PC, ARE BUILT, not FOR, but WITH the lowest performance platform in mind. And the three primary things that dictate what that lowest performant platform is are CPU, RAM quantity, and Storage medium. You simply can't go around that. You have to design your entire engine around those three pillars, or else you end up with a game that would require a ridiculous amount of retooling to allow you porting it to another platform.

That is why your rez point falls flat, because that's the one thing in all this that is scalable. The GPU is actually the least important part of your ability to have games on multiple platforms. Why? because all you would need to do is drop the rez to make it fit. But you can't make an engine that requires 60% of 7 ryzen 3 CPU cores running at 3.5Ghz and expect the same engine to run on a jaguar CPU. You cannot build an engine that deals with 8GB of active RAM at over 400GB/s of bandwidth and has a RAM scrapheap of around 6GB and expect that to fit into a 5GB total RAM budget.

The bar gets raised every single time new consoles come out. Thats simply because even though games are released across consoles and PC, the majority of the sales are always with the consoles. Devs go where the money is. With next-gen, the new bar is going to be at least 8 core Ryzen CPU, at least 24GB of total RAM(16GB CPU + 8GB GPU) and at least an NVMe SSD capable of speeds over 2GB/s. If you are gaming on the PC and you have anything less than that, your experience would be worse on PC than it would be on consoles.

With regards to your power gap theory... as I have already surmised, when it comes to a GPU difference, it simply comes down to resolution tweaks. Look at it this way, you are either doing everything at the same resolution across both consoles and then having the weaker one running at a lower framerate, or you are keeping the frame rate fixed, doing everything else the same, and dropping the rez on the weaker console. Its really that simple. Pixel pushing doesn't come free. I would think you would know this, but RT cost is also directly tied to how many pixels you are pushing. So it would also scale up r down with your resolution.

And yes, how important this is to people would vary... but good luck trying to spot the difference between native 2160p and native 1980p.

Precisely.
 
Feb 23, 2019
1,426
I think the reason we haven't gotten that big reveal yet is that now days things cycle through the news so fast and they don't want to release too much info too quickly and not have anything exciting to talk about once everybody moves on to whatever the next big news item is. It seems to me like they drop a tidbit of information every six months or so and once we get about six months out from release we'll have the big reveal followed by a steadier stream of game showcases from first and third party developers all the way up until launch so as to keep everyone's attention. That's my 2.23 cents anyway.

Not sure I agree with that.

Honestly, all Sony needed to do was repeat the same script as the PS4. That reveal was basically perfect. A brief, but poignant tech talk meant for mainstream gamers, unique UI features, the DS4 reveal, and great game announcements/technical demonstrations.

I'm hoping they will STILL have something on that scale for PS5, if not moreso. I expect BETTER game announcements than what they had with PS4. It's been like...2+ years since they had any new AAA game announcements., which is just crazy. I hope they have a BIG blowout whenever they do decide to talk.

Can't be too much longer as PS5's will go into assembly this summer.
 

19thCenturyFox

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,309
Has this been posted? This dude credible or a bit of a fanboy?




Edit: Sorry, I see it's a pretty old video (beginning of April), so probably already posted. Still curious if he's credible or not.

Think about this, how many even remotely next gen looking games can you play at a locked 60 fps at native 4K and Ultra settings on a GPU that isn't a 2080 Ti even if we don't add ray tracing to the mix?

I'm going with not credible.
 
Feb 23, 2019
1,426
Think about this, how many even remotely next gen looking games can you play at a locked 60 fps at native 4K and Ultra settings on a GPU that isn't a 2080 Ti even if we don't add ray tracing to the mix?

I'm going with not credible.

I think a lot of games will be more cross-gen at first, which means 4K 60...I don't see them having issues with that. There's a lot of console optimization that can happen.

As devs get more ambitious, 30 fps games will increase.
 

Afrikan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
16,958
Has this been posted? This dude credible or a bit of a fanboy?




Edit: Sorry, I see it's a pretty old video (beginning of April), so probably already posted. Still curious if he's credible or not.

Don't know about the 3rd and 4th bullet point... but about the resolution thing...imo, it might be similar to how Sports games were handled on current gen systems. One was more powerful than the other (beginning of the gen PS5>Xbox1 , late in gen XboxX>Pro) , yet developers just chose to have both run at the same resolution and framerate.

If the resolution difference is so close (1980p vs 2160p), most Developers might just have both Series X and PS5 games run at the same Resolution (maybe Dynamic) and Framerate....and use left over power for something else.

Do we even have any current gen games that run at 1980p? That's an odd resolution.
 
Jan 19, 2020
636
Bellingham
Not sure I agree with that.

Honestly, all Sony needed to do was repeat the same script as the PS4. That reveal was basically perfect. A brief, but poignant tech talk meant for mainstream gamers, unique UI features, the DS4 reveal, and great game announcements/technical demonstrations.

I'm hoping they will STILL have something on that scale for PS5, if not moreso. I expect BETTER game announcements than what they had with PS4. It's been like...2+ years since they had any new AAA game announcements., which is just crazy. I hope they have a BIG blowout whenever they do decide to talk.

Can't be too much longer as PS5's will go into assembly this summer.
That's a fair point, I can't wait for the next-gen floodgates to open and drown us in games, haha.
 

2Blackcats

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,050
I'd be surprised if nearly all games didn't go for some kind of dynamic resolution. Makes too much sense with software not being left behind anymore .
 
Jan 20, 2019
10,681
I'd be surprised if nearly all games didn't go for some kind of dynamic resolution. Makes too much sense with software not being left behind anymore .

That is something consoles games should offer more, the option for the user.

Doenst need to be something like pc, but like you launch the game and you can choose the resolution like for example, lets say that i run GoT on ps5 and the game gives me the option to play it at 1080p/1440p/4k.

That whould be really awesome.
 

The Bookerman

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,124
Not sure I agree with that.

Honestly, all Sony needed to do was repeat the same script as the PS4. That reveal was basically perfect. A brief, but poignant tech talk meant for mainstream gamers, unique UI features, the DS4 reveal, and great game announcements/technical demonstrations.

I'm hoping they will STILL have something on that scale for PS5, if not moreso. I expect BETTER game announcements than what they had with PS4. It's been like...2+ years since they had any new AAA game announcements., which is just crazy. I hope they have a BIG blowout whenever they do decide to talk.

Can't be too much longer as PS5's will go into assembly this summer.
The problem was that in the last few years there's been a power struggle within sony. Europe vs NA. During the initial launch, NA was driving a lot of the decisions, and what they did was perfect, problem is that a lot of these folks have left and jim ryan and his crew have picked up the slack. Personally, jim ryan doesn't seem like the guy who can drive forward a cohesive message.
 
Jan 20, 2019
10,681
The problem was that in the last few years there's been a power struggle within sony. Europe vs NA. During the initial launch, NA was driving a lot of the decisions, and what they did was perfect, problem is that a lot of these folks have left and jim ryan and his crew have picked up the slack. Personally, jim ryan doesn't seem like the guy who can drive forward a cohesive message.

NA division of Sony had a lot of spokersman type of peopel, because the peopel making the decisions werent really from NA. You had kaz (Jap), House(UK) and now Ryan(UK).

A lot of the NA ps4 faces werent really making any major decisions, the problem is that right now you dont have anyone at Sony that does that job, i mean you have but most of does peopel are head of Sony studios.

They need to fix this problem, hired a bunch of guys and make them your PR faces.
 

Pheonix

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
5,990
St Kitts
I've been saying this for a very long time now. Please let there be more reconstruction and put that extra power in stuff that actually adds cool shit to games.
I personally feel the 4K marketing/brainwash push is the worst thing to deer happen to gaming. And I feel there areto many brainwashed people out there to make it sound or seemmre important than it is.

unfortunately,this is what will happen...

GOW at 2160p.CB (~4M native pixels rendered)
GameofWar.jpg


Star Wars Fallen Order @ native 4K (~8M pixels rendered)
maxresdefault.jpg


They will say STFO looks better because its running at higher rez lol. Can't you see it, it just looks sharper and GOWlooks blurry.
 

AudiophileRS

Member
Apr 14, 2018
378
I think of resolution as a magnifying glass with different zoom factors and assets as a turd or a flower. Doesn't matter how much you magnify a turd, it's still a turd. A flower still looks better with lower magnification.
 

BreakAtmo

Member
Nov 12, 2017
12,815
Australia
Now that I got the Nintendo story out of my system, let me update here:
Something is happening June 4, and it's next-gen games related. People saying Sony could still announce hardware before that are absolutely right.

Thanks, that's cool. It makes sense - for May, show off the console along with bigger demonstrations of the controller and various hardware features, then follow that up with actual game reveals in June. Looking forward to it.
 

Naga

Alt account
Banned
Aug 29, 2019
7,850
Good to hear for Sony and June 4 (if real). They'll have a lot of stuff to talk about (details like cross-buy or OS, games, hardware, etc).
 

Andromeda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,844
I personally feel the 4K marketing/brainwash push is the worst thing to deer happen to gaming. And I feel there areto many brainwashed people out there to make it sound or seemmre important than it is.

unfortunately,this is what will happen...

GOW at 2160p.CB (~4M native pixels rendered)
GameofWar.jpg


Star Wars Fallen Order @ native 4K (~8M pixels rendered)
maxresdefault.jpg


They will say STFO looks better because its running at higher rez lol. Can't you see it, it just looks sharper and GOWlooks blurry.
God of War looks both sharper and better here.
 
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