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Will Pokemon Switch Come Out This Year?

  • Yes

    Votes: 554 51.9%
  • No

    Votes: 181 17.0%
  • Lol

    Votes: 332 31.1%

  • Total voters
    1,067
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

Hydrus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,298
Two different SKUs increasing sales and a multiplayer network effect are the same thing, it's like asking why they do anything? The entire game series is made to make money, of course all decisions can ultimately be attributed to that, I'm asking you how in the world two versions existing to dupe stupid kids and parents and thus increasing sales is at all a sane or reasonable analysis of either of these aspects, people that buy both versions at all isn't even a high number much less this completely made up "duped customers" category that you have zero evidence to refer to or reason to believe exists. The increased sales has virtually nothing to do with people buying both versions.

Where is your evidence of people buying both "isnt even a high number"? Someone mentioned this in the other thread:


Yeah. Some people want an extra save file, but Pokemon is the only big rpg left that gives you only one slot. They want you to buy the other version for the second save slot / exclusive pokemon.

This is another stupid/ scummy way they get people to buy two versions. Seriously, you can keep telling yourself what you want, but at the end of the day the Pokemon franchise is a multi billion dollar company. Your lying to yourself if you think they wont do something so easy to make even more money.
 

LunaSerena

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,525
I prefer the graphics of Pokkén and Pokemon Stadium back in the day. The 3DS art isn't bad by any means, but I loved that Pokemon feel far more dynamic in Stadium, for example. It wasn't nice that my framerate tanked every single time I sent out a flying Pokemon on the 3DS!
 

Kyzer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,709
Where is your evidence of people buying both "isnt even a high number"? Someone mentioned this in the other thread:




This is another stupid/ scummy way they get people to buy two versions. Seriously, you can keep telling yourself what you want, but at the end of the day the Pokemon franchise is a multi billion dollar company. Your lying to yourself if you think they wont do something so easy to make even more money.
I can show you years of millions of archived forums messages of people who need the version exclusives of the other game, and millions of sales. I don't get how you can possibly logically think that "dumb customer accidentally buying both things" or "giving in , no research, buying both" is at all any sort of reasonable customer behavior to adhere any business philosophy towards, or even how many people you know or have seen that buy and play through both versions of the game as opposed to just choosing one, to think that it would be at all a sizeable portion of sales.

What evidence or logic can you point to to support this claim ? Shouldn't it be a common thing to see people talking about how they didn't know the difference so they bought both, or of people saying that's what their parents did for them?

It's called a network effect and multiplayer is a feature of the game. Everything they do is to increase sales. Having two SKUs is definitely one of them. If you think that happens because of people not knowing Red and Blue version are the same game I want to know what made you think this
 
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MegaRockEXE

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,950
So you think all the low res textures in the 3DS versions were all created HD ready and then reduced? I was thinking they'd have to remake all the textures anyway but that workflow makes a lot more sense if they were thinking ahead.



"Disgustingly bad."
Okay sure dude.

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Well, what about something in between? There's no doubt the 3DS models are simplistic. It's not all about textures. You really think they're going to have flat textured mouths and eyes in a console game? Or prebaked shading? I think that despite the work apparently being "done", you'll still see a marked improvement that will rightfully make the 3DS work obsolete.
 

doodlebob

Member
Mar 11, 2018
1,401
So you think all the low res textures in the 3DS versions were all created HD ready and then reduced? I was thinking they'd have to remake all the textures anyway but that workflow makes a lot more sense if they were thinking ahead.



"Disgustingly bad."
Okay sure dude.

wj1dMnNm.jpg


DvrVibwm.jpg
I don't think you're helping your case. Remove all those visual effects and you're left with a garish look/textures for Gengar itself.
 

bye

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,422
Phoenix, AZ
Two games absolutely leads to increased sales. How is this even an argument otherwise.

The existence of the 3rd version/sequel games is proof of this.
 

klastical

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,712
I have a living dex and I have never bought both versions of the same generation. I did however have access to two ds systems which made the much easier before pokebank existed. With pokebank and the pokemon company handing out legendary and mythical pokemon left and right catching them all is the easiest it's ever been since gen 2.
 
Oct 25, 2017
14,648
I don't think you're helping your case. Remove all those visual effects and you're left with a garish look/textures for Gengar itself.
What can I say, I prefer the realistic take to uprezzed 3DS. I'm not saying everybody has to agree or have the same taste but to call it "disgustingly bad" is a bit of a stretch, isn't it?

And we're all aware that some of the details got a little wonky in translation from Bandai Namco. Just saying that if GF's own aesthetic moved in a similar more realistic direction I'd be pretty pumped. It wouldn't literally be the same guys at Bandai Namco porting shit over. But as others have said, the amount of work it would take would be enormous so it's very unlikely to happen. I can have fun imagining, though.



Well, what about something in between? There's no doubt the 3DS models are simplistic. It's not all about textures. You really think they're going to have flat textured mouths and eyes in a console game? Or prebaked shading? I think that despite the work apparently being "done", you'll still see a marked improvement that will rightfully make the 3DS work obsolete.

The thought did occur to me and I'd be happy with something in between. I've already setting my expectations low and expect little more than uprezzed 3DS so any effort above that is going to put a smile on my face.

If they kept all the same models and textures for the monsters (as I assume they will) but completely revamped the lighting system and overworld, that could turn out really good. There are multiple examples of recent games that have characters with fairly reserved texture work that totally get brought to life with more advanced lighting/effects combined with good environmental detail around them. They're not directly comparable but they suggest what kinds of improvements we might be able to look forward to someday.
(But probably not soon since gamefreak seems a little slow in that department)

sYpRRgtl.jpg


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XAePciAl.jpg
 

Echizen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
597
Two games absolutely leads to increased sales. How is this even an argument otherwise.

The existence of the 3rd version/sequel games is proof of this.

I don't think most people are debating that having two versions leads to increased sales of some amount. The point is that increased sales are not the primary reason Game Freak does this, and we really don't know how significant or insignificant these additional sales are.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
What can I say, I prefer the realistic take to uprezzed 3DS. I'm not saying everybody has to agree or have the same taste but to call it "disgustingly bad" is a bit of a stretch, isn't it?

And we're all aware that some of the details got a little wonky in translation from Bandai Namco. Just saying that if GF's own aesthetic moved in a similar more realistic direction I'd be pretty pumped. It wouldn't literally be the same guys at Bandai Namco porting shit over. But as others have said, the amount of work it would take would be enormous so it's very unlikely to happen. I can have fun imagining, though.





The thought did occur to me and I'd be happy with something in between. I've already setting my expectations low and expect little more than uprezzed 3DS so any effort above that is going to put a smile on my face.

If they kept all the same models and textures for the monsters (as I assume they will) but completely revamped the lighting system and overworld, that could turn out really good. There are multiple examples of recent games that have characters with fairly reserved texture work that totally get brought to life with more advanced lighting/effects combined with good environmental detail around them. They're not directly comparable but they suggest what kinds of improvements we might be able to look forward to someday.
(But probably not soon since gamefreak seems a little slow in that department)

sYpRRgtl.jpg


r9CZQGMl.jpg


XAePciAl.jpg
not until Game Freak does some massive overhauls to their engine (or, more likely, build a new one/use a third party engine). maybe for Gen 9?

at best, I think we can expect something akin to the new Inazuma Eleven. it retains that toon shaded style for the characters while giving the environments a more realistic style
 

Farrac

Member
Nov 3, 2017
2,082
Alcalá de Henares, Spain
Two games absolutely leads to increased sales. How is this even an argument otherwise.

The existence of the 3rd version/sequel games is proof of this.
No one's debating that. Someone here is being unreasonable and entertaining conspiracy theories about GF selling two versions of each game solely to prey on people instead of the obvious reason: to encourage trading. I also don't even get his/her point: nobody is getting hurt in the process because the two versions are 99% the same so who cares? Some people buying both versions is just pocket change for GF and a result of the system, no the reason for its existence.

Oh, and about the bundle thing: Do you guys honestly believe they make those for the people that buy both? No, they make those for people that want to play together, such as couples, or parents that want to get one version for each of their children.
 

Pokémon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,681
Saying that the only reason they are releasing two versions is because of double dippers is weird because when they released Green and Red in Japan in 1996 they couldn't know if people are going to like that model and certainly not if they were people willing to buy both versions.

They did that to implement the
social aspect to the Pokémon games: trading and fighting with others.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,685
What can I say, I prefer the realistic take to uprezzed 3DS. I'm not saying everybody has to agree or have the same taste but to call it "disgustingly bad" is a bit of a stretch, isn't it?

And we're all aware that some of the details got a little wonky in translation from Bandai Namco. Just saying that if GF's own aesthetic moved in a similar more realistic direction I'd be pretty pumped. It wouldn't literally be the same guys at Bandai Namco porting shit over. But as others have said, the amount of work it would take would be enormous so it's very unlikely to happen. I can have fun imagining, though.


god, pokkens textures are horrifically fugly. Such a shame. Gengar looks like a damn gumdrop.
Pokemon does not benefit from realism, at all. Theyre made of simple shapes, colours and anatomy and thats intended from the concept art because the whole game is in itself very cartoony.

if they could make them look more like the old watercolour artwork it would be really cool though, kind of what Ōkami achieved back on ps2 with its style. I think until you can render something like Zootopia, the level of detail being low/stylized is going to look best.
 
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Hydrus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,298
No one's debating that. Someone here is being unreasonable and entertaining conspiracy theories about GF selling two versions of each game solely to prey on people instead of the obvious reason: to encourage trading. I also don't even get his/her point: nobody is getting hurt in the process because the two versions are 99% the same so who cares? Some people buying both versions is just pocket change for GF and a result of the system, no the reason for its existence.

Oh, and about the bundle thing: Do you guys honestly believe they make those for the people that buy both? No, they make those for people that want to play together, such as couples, or parents that want to get one version for each of their children.

That someone is me and I'm not "entertaining conspiracy theories". The "encourage trading" reasoning doesn't hold any water in this day and age. Back in the 90's and early 2000's when all you had was a link cable, you could use the "trading" reasoning for releasing multiple versions. But even then they still tried to take advantage of the popularity of the series. Yellow version was that example. Adding a Pikachu that followed you and jesse/ james to capitalize on the popularity of the anime and using that to get you to double dip on what was just a slightly more improved, but still 95% the same game as the previous three. I know 9 year old me begged my parents to get me yellow, even though I already had blue, and they got it for me.

Also like I've mentioned before, the fact that they still wont allow you more than one save file is complete BS. There is no reasoning for it, other than encouraging you to get another copy of the game. People like you keep denying that releasing two versions of the same game has major effect on the overall sales. There is a reason why they make third "enhanced" versions and remakes: People will buy them. If there are two versions, a lot of people will buy them.

I just cant take anyone seriously who says " Multi billion dollar company in 2018 does not sell two games that are 98% the same game to make more money! They do it to encourage trading and friendship!! There is no way multi billion dollar company would ever take advantage of one of the biggest gaming IP's of all time, with one of the most dedicated fan bases ever!! Never!!!". Like I've said before, I don't blame TCPi. That's good business. The trading stuff just isnt an excuse anymore to sell you two, or now a days, four versions of virtually the same game.
 

AzureFlame

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,253
Kuwait
That someone is me and I'm not "entertaining conspiracy theories". The "encourage trading" reasoning doesn't hold any water in this day and age. Back in the 90's and early 2000's when all you had was a link cable, you could use the "trading" reasoning for releasing multiple versions. But even then they still tried to take advantage of the popularity of the series. Yellow version was that example. Adding a Pikachu that followed you and jesse/ james to capitalize on the popularity of the anime and using that to get you to double dip on what was just a slightly more improved, but still 95% the same game as the previous three. I know 9 year old me begged my parents to get me yellow, even though I already had blue, and they got it for me.

Also like I've mentioned before, the fact that they still wont allow you more than one save file is complete BS. There is no reasoning for it, other than encouraging you to get another copy of the game. People like you keep denying that releasing two versions of the same game has major effect on the overall sales. There is a reason why they make third "enhanced" versions and remakes: People will buy them. If there are two versions, a lot of people will buy them.

I just cant take anyone seriously who says " Multi billion dollar company in 2018 does not sell two games that are 98% the same game to make more money! They do it to encourage trading and friendship!! There is no way multi billion dollar company would ever take advantage of one of the biggest gaming IP's of all time, with one of the most dedicated fan bases ever!! Never!!!". Like I've said before, I don't blame TCPi. That's good business. The trading stuff just isnt an excuse anymore to sell you two, or now a days, four versions of virtually the same game.

I agree, in the end it's all about the money.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,121
That someone is me and I'm not "entertaining conspiracy theories". The "encourage trading" reasoning doesn't hold any water in this day and age. Back in the 90's and early 2000's when all you had was a link cable, you could use the "trading" reasoning for releasing multiple versions. But even then they still tried to take advantage of the popularity of the series. Yellow version was that example. Adding a Pikachu that followed you and jesse/ james to capitalize on the popularity of the anime and using that to get you to double dip on what was just a slightly more improved, but still 95% the same game as the previous three. I know 9 year old me begged my parents to get me yellow, even though I already had blue, and they got it for me.

Also like I've mentioned before, the fact that they still wont allow you more than one save file is complete BS. There is no reasoning for it, other than encouraging you to get another copy of the game. People like you keep denying that releasing two versions of the same game has major effect on the overall sales. There is a reason why they make third "enhanced" versions and remakes: People will buy them. If there are two versions, a lot of people will buy them.

I just cant take anyone seriously who says " Multi billion dollar company in 2018 does not sell two games that are 98% the same game to make more money! They do it to encourage trading and friendship!! There is no way multi billion dollar company would ever take advantage of one of the biggest gaming IP's of all time, with one of the most dedicated fan bases ever!! Never!!!". Like I've said before, I don't blame TCPi. That's good business. The trading stuff just isnt an excuse anymore to sell you two, or now a days, four versions of virtually the same game.
I feel so sad that you have become so cynical
 

Revolsin

Usage of alt-account.
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,373
I feel so sad that you have become so cynical

It's just how companies work. I mean, it's not like they release those 3rd versions out of the goodness of their hearts either. They're just super cheap to make and sell millions, so it's an incredibly obvious decision to do. Especially since no one seems to care that they're essentially selling you $10-$20 DLC in terms of actual new content, packaged as a full game. No backlash, tons of money.

You could certainly try and justify a lot of their actions, but I'd just call that being a fanboy and not much else.
 

Ushojax

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,929
I don't know how you could even argue that the multiple versions aren't cynical money makers. It's no different to movie studios trying to make book adaptations in 2 or even 3 parts. Did the last Twilight movie need two parts? Did the Hobbit need 3 movies? Or did they just want to maximise revenue?

Pokemon is a product and they want to make money from it, but it's not like you are forced to buy the other versions.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,121
It's just how companies work. I mean, it's not like they release those 3rd versions out of the goodness of their hearts either. They're just super cheap to make and sell millions, so it's an incredibly obvious decision to do. Especially since no one seems to care that they're essentially selling you $10-$20 DLC in terms of actual new content, packaged as a full game. No backlash, tons of money.

You could certainly try and justify a lot of their actions, but I'd just call that being a fanboy and not much else.
To be fair, they hadn't done a "third version" for 9 years until USUM...
 

Deleted member 14313

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,622
I don't know how you could even argue that the multiple versions aren't cynical money makers. It's no different to movie studios trying to make book adaptations in 2 or even 3 parts. Did the last Twilight movie need two parts? Did the Hobbit need 3 movies? Or did they just want to maximise revenue?

Pokemon is a product and they want to make money from it, but it's not like you are forced to buy the other versions.
The Hobbit didn't need three parts, that was overkill for such a short book and I know little about Twilight but I am absolutely not opposed to multi-part adaptations. Harry Potter 7 was split in two and benefitted greatly, it was a much better adaptation of the book than any film since 3.
 
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Pokémon

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,681
I don't know how you could even argue that the multiple versions aren't cynical money makers. It's no different to movie studios trying to make book adaptations in 2 or even 3 parts. Did the last Twilight movie need two parts? Did the Hobbit need 3 movies? Or did they just want to maximise revenue?

Pokemon is a product and they want to make money from it, but it's not like you are forced to buy the other versions.

Because like I said earlier there was no guarantee that they would be successful when they first introduced it with Green/Red over 20 years ago. Hell, they didn't even know if Pokémon would be successful at all.
I am not saying it's not making them more money now but when they first introduced the 2 version model it was never their intention to attract double dippers.

Besides why are people even mad about it? 2 versions have always be a thing and it's the same tradition as a new region or new Pokémon in a next gen game.
If you don't like it simply buy one version and get the missing Pokémon via wonder trade. I don't see the problem really.
 

Farrac

Member
Nov 3, 2017
2,082
Alcalá de Henares, Spain
What I don't get is why we are arguing about something so trivial. Again, of course they make two versions because it is more profitable, but I still fail to see how this is an issue. I argue that it is to encourage trading and diversity and this has never changed but even if we accept the (in my opinion, flawed) premise that they do it because a lot of people will buy both there is nothing to complain about. Of course they know that some people will buy both. Who cares? Why is anyone so concerned about it? This is not Fire Emblem Fates, this is one game with two slight variations that barely affect anything. What's the big deal? And now enhanced versions are suddenly brought into the mix when the conversation revolved around dual releases. I've been a fan of this series since its inception and I've met countless other fans and not a single one I met felt the need to buy both versions. In fact, almost nobody complained about dual releases. Why are we suddenly demonizing GF for it?

TLDR; What's exactly the problem with dual releases?
 

Conor419

Banned
Nov 26, 2017
2,320
London
Yeah the evil GameFreak approach is ridiculous, the differences between the versions is negligible. We definitely don't need two versions any more though, but I'm not sure that'll change this gen.
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,515
Spain
I would not like a ''realistic'' look for Pokémon, much better cel shading or something like that.

As much as some bother, Pokémon is anime.
 

AzureFlame

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,253
Kuwait
I have a cool idea for more balanced battles against the player com trainers.

When you battle a random trainer and they have like 3 pokemons only, it is unfair to use 6 pokemons against them so.. to make things more fun and challenging, they should limit us the number of pokemons to participate in battle based on how many the opponents have, would be awesome and fair.

I just want multiple save slots...
And a difficulty option from the very beginning.
And an option to skip tutorials we already know...

You will get NONE.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
6,086
151 pages!

First gen best gen!


But srsly, while there are also honest incentives in selling two versions, they can also have some monsters be randomly exclusive to some save files based on Trainer ID among other things instead of needing to make two versions. But if anybody is doubting that two versions is primarily to make more money, you're kidding yourself.

I just think of the third version as a "Super Pokemon Red version", similar to Street Fighter, being an update that was only released full price out of necessity. Now that we have DLC, Crystal, Emerald, and Platinum totally could've been $10 DLC packs, but fortunately third versions haven't been so basic since BW2 (though a lot of USUM's big changes could've been made into a NG+ DLC for SM if they really wanted).
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
24,515
Spain
The problem of the slots is going to be solved by the Switch itself, the tutorials personally do not matter to me. Okay, a 2 minute explanation of how to capture a Pokémon can be annoying but it is not something that will make you hate the game.

The difficulty modes are necessary.
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Okay, a 2 minute explanation of how to capture a Pokémon can be annoying but it is not something that will make you hate the game.
It wouldn't be if it wasn't a symptom of a larger problem. The games are just bloated with pacing slowing elements. I don't mind the cutscenes but not having a skip function is just ignoring 20 years of quality of life improvements. The games are just a slog on the second play through. It's why I gave up Ultra Sun before even completing Illima's trial
 

Beje

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,751
The problem of the slots is going to be solved by the Switch itself

What scares me is that some games like 1-2-Switch don't have a user select pop-up and default to a single savegame per console, and GameFreak could hang on that while still rising the price from 40€ to 60€ (which is already a given, seeing how Nintendo is pricing everything so far).
 

Rand a. Thor

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
10,213
Greece
Oh man I love this thread. GaaS for Pokemon Switch, Pokken models for Pokemon Switch should happen, two versions are unnecessary because people are too stupid to realize they only have to buy one version and its all a conspiracy theory, woof. I am so glad that Gamefreak read the message boards and thankfully said, yeah don't be too excited, its still going to be Pokemon. Which means, guess what? None of the above thankfully will happen in the immediate future.

-GaaS already happens in the multiplayer, no need to seep into the actual single player, or to decimate previous single player features by bringing them back and using them only for multiplayer. Yes, lets bring back the Battle Frontier, but make it online only, and with rotating Battle Facilities because that's what everyone is doing, so Gamefreak obviously should! Really? Gamefreak bringing back the Battle Frontier would happen once they realize that is what people want, and if they do, then that would actually mean the single player would be something akin to Platinum or B2W2, not a GaaS snoozefest.
-The Gen 6 models are fine. Obviously the Switch would have improved shaders, probably even better textures. I can also see them making minimal changes here and there to allow for bump maps so that faces and what not won't be flat, but that's about it. And its perfectly fine, if not great.
-Two versions can still happen. Probably won't be 60, I can see them going with 50. And why should they still happen? Because that's Pokemon. It will always center around two version with unique things here and there so that people can not only share their collections, but their experiences. Gen 7 kinda went a bit further than usual in that department, and I can see the next games also doing that. Different boss battles, different story beats, its all good.


In general I am not some know it all, or consider myself superior to anyone else. But really, when it comes to predicting what or how Gamefreak will do something, everyone gets it wrong, including myself some times. Yes they follow trends, but they do not follow them in the same way everyone else does. Nintendo does have GaaS games, and I love them, but Pokemon is not the series for it. No matter how much online is integrated into the actual games, the matter of the fact is that there is still a core single player experience at the heart of it, and its that experience which drew us to the franchise and its critters in the first place. Gamefreak more than likely knows this, which is why I can't see them every adpoting that style beyond Seasonal Rated Matches or Cups. More tangible awards and a proper online hub world like the Splatoon Main Street thing? Sure. But no more than that. But yeah, beyond that, as I said above, things like the models, or the two versions, they won't and don't need to change at all.
 

Kyzer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,709
Saying having two SKUs is for higher sales is one thing

Thinking that comes from people buying both versions, better yet by accident or out of ignorance is another

Most people choose one version, the reason it can be argued that it increases sales is because of something called a network effect, but that very same multiplayer network aspect is absolutely vital to the entire design of the game. Having two versions "because sales" is only as accurate as any other decision including the creation of the games of the first place being with the goal of making profits in mind. It doesn't actually explain the purpose. The reason it increases sales is because it encourages participants in an ecosystem which increases the network effect. Thinking "because sales" is bad enough in terms of vague simplicity and ignorance of completely logical rationale, going so far as to say these sales come from people not knowing Sun and Moon are the same games with different Pokemon or stupid parents is completely irrational.
 

Abstrusity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,656
Obligatory version tier list:

God tier: Blue, Silver, Sapphire, Pearl, Black, Black 2, X Moon

Not even worth mentioning tier:any other choices
 

disparate

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,904
I don't think the US/UM models at a higher resolution are an issue it's... virtually everything else that needs improvement.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,060
I wouldn't mind Pokemon going for a more CG look, as long as they don't try to make it look realistic like Pokken, pretty much just take the current models and change the render method.
I'd prefer high quality celshading though.
 
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