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decoyplatypus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,614
Brooklyn
Forgive me if there's already a thread on this. I ran a search and scanned the first few pages but didn't see anything.

Music publishers are suing Roblox for copyright infringement. The publishers claim that Roblox encourages users to upload music, charges them for doing so, but takes insufficient steps to prevent users from uploading copyrighted music without a license. I'm only partway through the complaint, which you can read here. The key legal issue is going to be whether Roblox is entitled to safe harbor under the DMCA (specifically 17 USC 512(c)). The publishers argue that Roblox does not qualify for safe harbor because it failed to register a DMCA agent for receiving takedown notifications, hasn't reasonably implemented a repeat infringer policy (i.e. Roblox's three-strikes rule is too generous in practice), and allows users to form groups dedicated to sharing pirated music.

A few initial thoughts:

  • Failing to register a DMCA agent is awfully dumb, but you do sometimes see it with newer companies or companies that don't realize they might have user-generated content issues. I'm not sure what happened here. Roblox looks like they're generally conscientious about DMCA stuff.
  • The repeat infinger policy issue is going to be interesting. The law itself is vague about what a repeat infringer policy needs to look like (for good reason -- online service providers have very different functions and user bases). Roblox did have a repeat infringer policy that included the possibility of terminating users after three strikes. The publishers say the termination provision was fake because Roblox counted consecutive infringements within 45 days as part of one strike, so users could amass a huge number of copyright violations without accruing a third strike and facing account termination (to give Roblox's side: the reason companies have those time bands for consecutive strikes is because you don't want a situation where a user uploads ten unlicensed songs in a few hours and gets ten separate strikes before even one of them is resolved). Lurking in the background here is a case from last year where music publishers won a $1 billion judgment against the ISP Cox, in part because there was evidence Cox was selectively choosing not to terminate highly-active users. That judgment is on appeal now, but in the meantime it's quite a cudgel for the publishers.
  • FWIW, I think Roblox has a plausible defense here. The DMCA agent thing is sticky but not usually fatal. The asserted facts about their repeat infringer policy aren't anywhere near as ugly as the ones in Cox (although it's possible they would get worse after discovery). And the rest of the complaint actually goes some way toward showing that Roblox was making an effort to comply with the DMCA. The trouble is that even with a plausible defense, you don't want to take a case like this all the way to trial.
 
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Serene

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
52,536
Roblox is a copyright nightmare so I have no idea how they handle it
 

Delusibeta

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,648
Yeah, the music publishers going after Roblox's three strikes rule is an eyebrow raiser, because if they win there then they're going to immediately parley that into a Twitch lawsuit which would be an easy layup.
 

RoadDogg

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,062
Surprised there isn't more of this, most of the stuff in there is made with stolen assets.
 

Footos22

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,776
Lol it was gonna happen sooner or later. It's riddled with it. The joys of user created content
 

Alec

Hero of Bowerstone
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,729
Louisville, KY
I have wondered for YEARS how Roblox hasn't been getting sued for the stuff its users upload and profit off of.
 

gothi

Prophet of Truth
Member
Jun 23, 2020
4,433
Been waiting for this. My little boy loves Roblox and there's an incredible amount of copyright infringing material on there.
 

Opposable

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,367
I saw a guy the other day live streaming a whole pokemon rpg in roblox, with the game models, names, poke balls and everything
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,629
This was inevitable since Roblox is a mess with stuff like this, even if it's really interesting as a user. And it's only been getting more attention as the company went public.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,230
Copyright law to Roblox:

5e9.jpg
 

Zeroth

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
790
No surprises there. The fact they opened their capital probably made an easier case to move this, specially with the high market cap expectations.
 
OP
OP
decoyplatypus

decoyplatypus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,614
Brooklyn
I admit Roblox was just a name to me before today. It sounds like they may have a bit more to worry about with the "direct financial benefit" prong of the DMCA (and with contributory and vicarious infringement) than your typical UCG defendant. But I'd be surprised if a court wanted to modify YouTube for them.
 

Patrese86

Member
Jun 6, 2021
883
Not surprising. My daughter plays it and I always say to her "oh i recognise that sound off final fantasy", or mario or some other game. Basically the game is filled with it.
 

FrostweaveBandage

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Sep 27, 2019
6,685
The day, the second I heard Roblox was planning on going public, I said, they will face multiple copyright suits from someone the moment someone notices how much money they make. Even in the silly games my kids would play, you just set up a dance party and start playing tunes and you don't have to pay for any of it. They rip off well known games all the time. There's at least two or three Among Us clones as well as other games. Content was completely uncontrolled for the most part.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
Going off the info in OP's post it seems like Roblox has a decent defense and I hope they win. Not having a DMCA agent is a very dumb move on their part though.
 

Stooge

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,240
Yeah, there is an online board game platform (Tabletop simulator) that is effectively just 100% a way for users to scan board game and upload them to play. Which is hilarious because they are actually stealing the only thing about a board game you CANT steal (the art) - the rules can't be protected.
 

StereoVSN

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,620
Eastern US
I am surprised they haven't gotten sued earlier. Not to mention music, copyright infringement with all kinds of media is all over the place.
 
OP
OP
decoyplatypus

decoyplatypus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,614
Brooklyn
Surely roblox eula puts the copyright issue onto the user/creator of games inside roblox right?

Yes and no. I am positive Roblox's terms of use require users to have permission for any content they upload, and I would guess they require users to indemnify them. But that's not a defense to this sort of suit; it just gives Roblox the right to sue its users to help cover an adverse judgment. Platforms try to avoid suing their users.
 

Zodzilla

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,234
Most of the content on roblox is copywritten material, so I'm surprised it took this long.

Now that they're a publicly traded company, I guess it was only a matter of time.
 

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,497
Yeah, there is an online board game platform (Tabletop simulator) that is effectively just 100% a way for users to scan board game and upload them to play. Which is hilarious because they are actually stealing the only thing about a board game you CANT steal (the art) - the rules can't be protected.

Well, that one's interesting in that they do also sell licensed versions of games as add-ons. Obviously there's a ton of user content that's just uploading games for free, yeah, but there's at least a way to get ahead of that and make some money.
 

Protmind

Member
Oct 27, 2017
165
Most of the content on roblox is copywritten material, so I'm surprised it took this long.

Now that they're a publicly traded company, I guess it was only a matter of time.
That's probably what they were waiting for. My children play Roblox and the copyright infringement is pretty blatant.
 

RPGam3r

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,520
Roblox should feel lucky they've gotten away with so much for so long. The writing was on the walls with this one.
 

TalonJH

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,875
Louisville, KY
Every time my 9yr old plays one of the games in Roblox around me, I hear music from games that I've played. The one I heard the most for a while was the Balamb Garden them from FFVIII. I think they used it in border school themed game. I always have to fight the urge to go, "hey, that music was stolen from (insert game)" because I know I'll get an eye roll or something from her. The other song I always hear is from Naruto.
 

Stooge

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,240
Well, that one's interesting in that they do also sell licensed versions of games as add-ons. Obviously there's a ton of user content that's just uploading games for free, yeah, but there's at least a way to get ahead of that and make some money.

I own a publisher, they only enforce against games they sell, I'd you license to them they will enforce super well. Otherwise they barely respond to DMCA requests.
 

DevilPuncher

Aggressively Mediocre
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,700
As someone with only a cursory understanding of Roblox, I am very surprised that this didn't happen sooner.
 

Serious Sam

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,354
I'm sure Roblox Corporation will survive this great injustice with billions of dollars that they've made from parents of game addicted children.
 

Praxis

Sausage Tycoon
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,247
UK
It's a shame, my kid likes it and I enjoy the wild west nature of it. You just knew these pencil dick lawyers would show up at some point, shocked it has taken this long.
 

G-X

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,346
as soon as they went public, it expedited the timetable on this, but it was shocking it hadn't happened already by that point
 

RockmanBN

Visited by Knack - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,989
Cornfields
I'm surprised it took this like. I've seen copyrighted games everywhere even in 2006-7 when I played as a kid.
 

Shadow

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,126
Yeah, there is an online board game platform (Tabletop simulator) that is effectively just 100% a way for users to scan board game and upload them to play. Which is hilarious because they are actually stealing the only thing about a board game you CANT steal (the art) - the rules can't be protected.
That I can't even hate on though, I love it. It got me to buy a few and even look forward to a few for IRL play. Although heck, Steam workshop as a whole is full of this stuff on other games as well.
 

Outlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,110
Texas
My kiddo plays Roblox religiously. I did notice a ton of potential red flags DMCA/copyright wise.

They've got kids uploading cosmetics to the store with Nike/Supreme/Adidas/Jordan logos and making Robux off of it.
 

Deleted member 2840

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,400
It was kinda obvious that was gonna happen. As soon as the IPO was announced I knew that scrutinization like this would start.
Roblox is a game where 70%+ of their revenue comes from copyrighted material. Clones from other games, games using material from shows, anime, etc. All monetized. It's honestly a wonder it took this long. And this is only for music!