Roku Warns YouTube TV Customers That Service Could Go Dark Due To Google’s “Predatory” & “Monopoly” Moves

Dalek · Apr 26, 2021

Roku Warns YouTube TV Customers That Service Could Go Dark Due To Google’s “Monopoly” Moves; “Disappointed” YouTube Says It Is Bargaining In Good Faith – Update

Roku is warning YouTube TV subscribers through its platform that the service could soon go dark due to Google's "predatory" behavior.

deadline.com

Roku is warning its customers with YouTube TV subscriptions that the service could go dark in the coming days due to what it calls Google's "predatory" and "monopoly" behavior.

In a lengthy statement, a Roku spokesperson blasted Google's actions in detail. The tech giant is "attempting to use its YouTube monopoly position to force Roku into accepting predatory, anti-competitive and discriminatory terms that will directly harm Roku and our users." The company has also sent an email to customers this morning expressing the concerns.

Roku is arguing that YouTube and Google are out to manipulate the user experience to siphon data and tilt search results in YouTube's favor, among other complaints. It also maintains that Google could require Roku to spend money upgrading microchips or other equipment in order to accommodate YouTube TV.

The current agreement between the companies will expire in the next few days. While the Roku statement did not specify a date, this week will see April end and May begin, a turning of the calendar that matches with most distribution contract deadlines.

YouTube TV, a streaming bundle of linear channels which launched in 2017, arrived on Roku in 2018. The main YouTube app dates back years earlier on Roku, and the current agreement for it is understood to not be on the verge of expiration. Executives at Google corporate parent Alphabet said last year that YouTube TV had passed 3 million subscribers. Along with Hulu + Live TV and Sling TV, it is one of the leading packagers of TV via streaming.

Across Roku's footprint, the YouTube TV subscriber population is fairly small, but the platform is prime real estate for any streaming purveyor. The company has had bare-knuckled negotiations with WarnerMedia for HBO Max, NBCUniversal for Peacock and with Fox Corp., with the battles increasingly spilling into public view. Along with Amazon Fire TV, Roku has become a primary gatekeeper for streaming in the U.S., with 51 million active accounts as of the end of 2020.

Google as a company has been the subject of growing antitrust scrutiny in the U.S. and Europe, a fact that Roku seized upon in its statement. Last fall, the U.S. Department of Justice and 11 state attorneys general filed a civil antitrust lawsuit. The complaint said it aims to stop Google from "unlawfully maintaining monopolies through anticompetitive and exclusionary practices in the search and search advertising markets."

Given the legal action against Google, "it should come as no surprise that Google is now demanding unfair and anti-competitive terms that harm Roku's users," the statement said.

foxuzamaki · Apr 26, 2021

Wait hold on the youtube app is how i mainly watch youtube on my roku tv! Dont take it away from me!

AndyD · Apr 26, 2021

foxuzamaki said:
Wait hold on the youtube app is how i mainly watch youtube on my roku tv! Dont take it away from me!

I think they mean Youtube TV, the TV channel subscription. It seems it's potentially getting melded into the Android TV look, so I wonder if Roku is worried they will lose access and control over the recomendation engine and whatnot that they use. Essentially once inside Youtube TV, you may never have to leave it to buy/rent movies or jump into your Netflix shows and so on. Those things would be centralized through Google, instead of different apps in the Roku platform, for which Roku gets paid individually, and gets data from individually.

Sandstar · Apr 26, 2021

foxuzamaki said:
Wait hold on the youtube app is how i mainly watch youtube on my roku tv! Dont take it away from me!

From what I read, the main app isn't going to be effected, just the yttv app. (but yeah, don't take that away from me. I watch youtube on my tv nearly constantly now)

foxuzamaki · Apr 26, 2021

AndyD said:
I think they mean Youtube TV, the TV channel subscription. It seems it's potentially getting melded into the Android TV look, so I wonder if Roku is worried they will lose access and control over the recomendation engine and whatnot that they use. Essentially once inside Youtube TV, you may never have to leave it to buy/rent movies or jump into your Netflix shows and so on. Those things would be centralized through Google, instead of different apps in the Roku platform, for which Roku gets paid individually, and gets data from individually.

Sandstar said:
From what I read, the main app isn't going to be effected, just the yttv app. (but yeah, don't take that away from me. I watch youtube on my tv nearly constantly now)

Thats not so bad I guess but I wouldn't be surprised if itngets caught in the crossfire

killerrin · Apr 26, 2021

Your daily reminder that Google is a monopolistic bastard-company that commonly abuses its marketshare positions in order to benefit their own products and services.

Never forget, this is the company that when Microsoft created Windows Phone, Google did everything possible to fuck with its paltry 1-5% Marketshare by making updates to Apps and Websites to specifically Ban or provide worse experiences for Windows Phone Users when using/doing anything Google. From banning Google Maps Apps, and updating the website to target the IE12/Edge Browser Agent to degrade and throw users to a 90's era Maps website. To going to war with YouTube apps by revoking dev keys every other week, and throttling the website. All while claiming that the platform "Just couldn't handle it" or "Didn't support webstandards" which was easily disproven by anyone who actually looked into it.

And thats just what they did to Microsoft and got away with.

BriGuy · Apr 26, 2021

Streaming is catching up to cable in more ways than one. I'm tired of companies using their consumers to wage proxy wars against one another. Seeing a steady stream of network providers scroll messages across the screen to get me to raise hell with DirecTV isn't something I missed.

The Climaxan · Apr 26, 2021

Man fuck. I have two Roku TV's and YouTubeTV is the main thing I watch on both.

Haint · Apr 26, 2021

The Climaxan said:
Man fuck. I have two Roku TV's and YouTubeTV is the main thing I watch on both.

...I just bought my parents 4 Roku Ultras and Youtube TV when their Comcast bill went over $300/mo.

Composer · Apr 26, 2021

killerrin said:
Your daily reminder that Google is a monopolistic bastard-company that commonly abuses its marketshare positions in order to benefit their own products and services.

I can assure you thats not what is going on in this case. Its unfortunate how Roku is spreading this message but as someone on the ground floor, it is sad to see roku lash out like this. They have done it before though.

Dysun · Apr 26, 2021

This will make the three Roku's in my house completely worthless since that's what I use them for. Freaking great

ruggiex · Apr 26, 2021

It also maintains that Google could require Roku to spend money upgrading microchips or other equipment in order to accommodate YouTube TV.

Kind of curious what this is about. Google wants to change the codec that isn't supported by the bottom of the barrel SoC that Roku uses?

Composer · Apr 26, 2021

ruggiex said:
Kind of curious what this is about. Google wants to change the codec that isn't supported by the bottom of the barrel SoC that Roku uses?

Roku is a pain point for devs. They have their own ecosystem which you have to code for and it is unique from every other platform. When I was at Crunchyroll it was truly a pain. At my current team, we have the ability to get a little closer to the metal but very often Roku is slow at getting software updates to its base hardware. This is partly because the hardware is often so incredibly underpowered.

Deleted member 24079 · Apr 26, 2021

killerrin said:
Your daily reminder that Google is a monopolistic bastard-company that commonly abuses its marketshare positions in order to benefit their own products and services.

Never forget, this is the company that when Microsoft created Windows Phone, Google did everything possible to fuck with its paltry 1-5% Marketshare by making updates to Apps and Websites to specifically Ban or provide worse experiences for Windows Phone Users when using/doing anything Google. From banning Google Maps Apps, and updating the website to target the IE12/Edge Browser Agent to degrade and throw users to a 90's era Maps website. To going to war with YouTube apps by revoking dev keys every other week, and throttling the website. All while claiming that the platform "Just couldn't handle it" or "Didn't support webstandards" which was easily disproven by anyone who actually looked into it.

And thats just what they did to Microsoft and got away with.

Yup. Stay away from google if you can.

ruggiex · Apr 26, 2021

Composer said:
Roku is a pain point for devs. They have their own ecosystem which you have to code for and it is unique from every other platform. When I was at Crunchyroll it was truly a pain. At my current team, we have the ability to get a little closer to the metal but very often Roku is slow at getting software updates to its base hardware. This is partly because the hardware is often so incredibly underpowered.

Make sense. I'm more surprised that Roku runs as well as it does on such crappy hardware, which means everything has to be completely customized in their software stack. The hardware is like worse than a lot of routers these days.

cinch · Apr 26, 2021

Ugh i hope this doesn't happen, we have 3 Roku tvs and one stick that we watch YoutubeTv on, it's not our only source of tv (have Sling too) but it's our favorite

BLEEN · Apr 26, 2021

Roku is the worst of the streaming OSes anyway, imo. Sucks for people who use it tho.

If they enabled sideloading or had any semblance of having an open OS, I'd be more forgiving. Even every AppleTV device can be jailbroken to technically allow this lol

Just sad.

I guess my point is, all the others 'cept Roku have multiple alternatives when bullshit like this goes down.

Perfectsil · Apr 26, 2021

It's about pushing the open source AV1 codec, Roku's ancient boxes just gonna be obsolete at some point

Obi · Apr 26, 2021

AndyD said:
Essentially once inside Youtube TV, you may never have to leave it to buy/rent movies or jump into your Netflix shows and so on. Those things would be centralized through Google, instead of different apps in the Roku platform, for which Roku gets paid individually, and gets data from individually.

You also wont see the forced ads that Roku displays that take up like half of your main menu.

It was rough enough that they dropped Twitch support. If they have an Amazon like brawl over Youtube, I'll have almost no use for this device anymore. I thought the whole point of the forced ads and data mining was so they could pay to keep their apps running?

Tuorom · Apr 26, 2021

Slash · Apr 30, 2021

Somnia · Apr 30, 2021

I hope Google doesn't force the removal of the app for existing users....

If it does I'll most likely cancel my service with them.

CookieMonster · Apr 30, 2021

Roku pulled the same exact stunt on ATT TV. They never advertised why it was pulled, but it was believed to be because of the HBO Max dispute.

Spectromixer · Apr 30, 2021

LuigiMario · Apr 30, 2021

This is a royal pain in the ass. I have 2 Roku TVs for my my main living room TV and girlfriends office TV and we use YouTube TV on them all the time.

Would be really annoying to have to use my Xbox on the living room for literally 1 stupid app and figure out a solution for the second TV. I bought the office TV specifically because it was cheap and had Roku built in so I knew we would never really have an issue with it not having a specific app we want...

Deleted member 4353 · Apr 30, 2021

I use Sling now. After google increased the price last year, that was the last straw for me.

ruggiex · Apr 30, 2021

LuigiMario said:
This is a royal pain in the ass. I have 2 Roku TVs for my my main living room TV and girlfriends office TV and we use YouTube TV on them all the time.

Still sucky having to shell out more money but things like chromcast with Google TV are not too expensive these days and are much more flexible.

Johnny956 · Apr 30, 2021

ruggiex said:
Make sense. I'm more surprised that Roku runs as well as it does on such crappy hardware, which means everything has to be completely customized in their software stack. The hardware is like worse than a lot of routers these days.

That's the interesting thing. My Roku devices appear to run apps quite well. My 4K fire stick still stutters more. Apple TV is probably the only device that's smoother

Arcticfox · Apr 30, 2021

The next time I visit my parents I will be removing their last Roku and replacing it with something else. Originally we thought that by not being a content provider or having any corporate feuds it would mean they would always have the biggest selection of apps. Recent times have shown the opposite to be true. This just reminds me of the constant PR battles between cable providers and tv channels during contract renegotiations. At least it is much easier to switch streaming boxes than cable providers.

Composer · Apr 30, 2021

Somnia said:
I hope Google doesn't force the removal of the app for existing users....

If it does I'll most likely cancel my service with them.

This will not happen. Stay tuned.

mordecaii83 · Apr 30, 2021

I'm not going to argue who is in the right here (although past events leads me to believe Google is probably the bad guy), but I've stayed away from Roku over the years because they keep having app issues that my other streaming devices just don't (no Twitch, ATT TV, Youtube TV, etc).

Darren Lamb · Apr 30, 2021

Annoyed that the streaming experience keeps getting worse. I liked things better when Youtube TV was nearly half the price and we didn't have a million services that splintered content. Feel like the fight between services and device makers is new too

I've bought into the Google ecosystem but would be surprised if they weren't the bad guys in this

caff!!! · Apr 30, 2021

Arcticfox said:
The next time I visit my parents I will be removing their last Roku and replacing it with something else. Originally we thought that by not being a content provider or having any corporate feuds it would mean they would always have the biggest selection of apps. Recent times have shown the opposite to be true. This just reminds me of the constant PR battles between cable providers and tv channels during contract renegotiations. At least it is much easier to switch streaming boxes than cable providers.

Roku got into the content game a while back with their own pay service with some stuff from other providers, which also seems to be the source of some contract issues/strongarming too. This is why I went with a Google's own Google TV thing a while back as it has about all the big players and is open to sideloading.

Cruets · Apr 30, 2021

Roku sucks anyway. Shield and chromecast tv where it's at. Dump roku

Composer · Apr 30, 2021

We made a statement: https://blog.youtube/news-and-events/update-our-youtube-tv-members-roku/

The Albatross · Apr 30, 2021

I am fully blaming Roku for this shit they've been having with HBO and now YouTube. Or at least if I have to pick one company to favor over the other, I'm favoring Youtube tv and hbo.

Roku just doesn't seem to argue in good faith in either of these contract negotiations, I think they're banking that their customers are locked into their devices and sets and so it puts the pressure on companies like google or hbo, but like... These disputes they're having make me far.more likely to switch to another.platform. Like if youtube tv stopped working on my roku tv I'd put a Google TV player on it, which is a nicer interface than roku anyway.

The Albatross · Apr 30, 2021

killerrin said:
Your daily reminder that Google is a monopolistic bastard-company that commonly abuses its marketshare positions in order to benefit their own products and services.

Never forget, this is the company that when Microsoft created Windows Phone, Google did everything possible to fuck with its paltry 1-5% Marketshare by making updates to Apps and Websites to specifically Ban or provide worse experiences for Windows Phone Users when using/doing anything Google. From banning Google Maps Apps, and updating the website to target the IE12/Edge Browser Agent to degrade and throw users to a 90's era Maps website. To going to war with YouTube apps by revoking dev keys every other week, and throttling the website. All while claiming that the platform "Just couldn't handle it" or "Didn't support webstandards" which was easily disproven by anyone who actually looked into it.

And thats just what they did to Microsoft and got away with.

I dunno, in this case roku seems like the bad actor here. They had a similar beef with HBO last year, and made similar false allegations against HBO to their customers, banned the HBO apps from the platform over some content dispute.

The more bull shit content disputes that Roku repeatedly has with content providers, the more of a reflection it is on Roku for me, not on HBO or YoutubeTV. I actually like the HBO and YTTV services, I am indifferent to roku, it's just the platform my tv has. And whenever roku has another dispute with a provider it doesn't make me think "oh hmm maybe I'll switch to Hulu?" It makes me assume it'll be a matter of time before Roku has some beef with Hulu, Disney, Netflix and whoever else, and I'm getting another email from roku telling me that Disney doesn't want me to watch content on my TV or something.

CreepingFear · Apr 30, 2021

It does seem like Roku is always involved in these type of disputes. That said, I want nothing to do with Apple's eco system, nor Google and Amazon Firestick.

lunarworks · Apr 30, 2021

Composer said:
We made a statement: https://blog.youtube/news-and-events/update-our-youtube-tv-members-roku/

So it's the codecs. Apple TV 3rd gen devices lost YouTube recently, and I guess Roku doesn't want the same to happen to their numerous underpowered devices. They're using YouTube TV as a hostage.

Somnia · Apr 30, 2021

Composer said:
We made a statement: https://blog.youtube/news-and-events/update-our-youtube-tv-members-roku/

Thanks! Hope Roku follows what they said and keep it up. Much appreciated.

Empyrean Cocytus · Apr 30, 2021

This is common behavior between content providers and services. Basically enlisting customers as a task force to complain that they're going to lose their service in order to turn around and give them the extra million dollars they want.

Chucker · Apr 30, 2021

Literally just bought a 5 Series TCL for the bedroom last night, glad I setup all my channels then and didn't wait til today, would have been out of luck.

Otakukidd · Apr 30, 2021

Composer said:
We made a statement: https://blog.youtube/news-and-events/update-our-youtube-tv-members-roku/

Yeah if true and google just wanted to keep the same agreement then I think the problem is probably on roku's side

StereoVSN · Apr 30, 2021

Meh, I definitely don't believe anything that Google says. They have been caught lying and utilizing their power in monopolistic ways often enough.

That said, Roku also is probably complicit. They have these spats a few times, although it's probably due to the fact that they aren't a content provider so they have less leverage in negotiations.

I hope YouTube (not the TV) app manages to stay, but I am pessimistic.

Jay1V · May 1, 2021

I got a Roku for my parents because how easy it is to use. I've never used anything else, so does anyone know what the next best thing is? Google tv, firestick, something else?

The Teachinator · May 1, 2021

I've used Roku, Fire Stick, Apple TV, Shield and the newer Google TV dongles.

For my use I'd rank them as follows:

Apple TV
Google TV
Shield
Roku
Firestick

I'd say the top 3 are pretty comparable and I'd say that the fire stick is alllllll the way in the back as far as it being quick.

Jay1V · May 1, 2021

The Teachinator said:
I've used Roku, Fire Stick, Apple TV, Shield and the newer Google TV dongles.

For my use I'd rank them as follows:

Apple TV
Google TV
Shield
Roku
Firestick

I'd say the top 3 are pretty comparable and I'd say that the fire stick is alllllll the way in the back as far as it being quick.

Thanks! Apple tv is a bit pricey for a streaming stick, so I'll go with google tv

EssBeeVee · May 7, 2021

Got another youtubetv email

An update for our Roku users: Today we're introducing a feature that gives you a new way to access YouTube TV from within the YouTube app. This update will be available to all YouTube TV members on Roku over the next few days, and we will expand to as many devices as we can over time.

Make sure you have the YouTube app downloaded from the Roku Channel Store
From the YouTube app, simply click on "Go to YouTube TV" in the left-hand menu of the app
If it's your first time doing this, you'll need to sign in to YouTube TV
You can learn more in our Help Center

We're still working to come to an agreement with Roku to ensure continued access to the YouTube TV app for our mutual customers. As of right now, existing YouTube TV members still have access to the YouTube TV app on Roku devices.

As a reminder, you can still cast to your Roku device from your mobile device, tablet, or computer by following these simple steps. You can also continue to access the YouTube TV app using all of the devices listed here.

We hope this is helpful and thank you again for your patience. For further updates on this issue and our efforts to resolve it, please visit this website.

Sincerely,
The YouTube TV team

Roku Warns YouTube TV Customers That Service Could Go Dark Due To Google’s “Predatory” & “Monopoly” Moves

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