Switch software occupied entire Top 30 in Japan during week 31, 2021 (First for any platform holder since 1988, first time ever for a single console)

[Mabase]

While I'm happy that Nintendo just barely avoided dOoOo0meD status, I am indeed worried about Sony.

20k PS5s were sold that week and people bought no physical games along with it? Is everything digital now?
I'd be interested to see, beyond the Top 30, where and with how many units the first PS5 game appears.

 

[Waddles the Piggu]

While I'm happy that Nintendo just barely avoided dOoOo0meD status, I am indeed worried about Sony.

Click to shrink...

Seriously I don't think we should be worried about Sony. They always win. Especially with 3rd party support. Meanwhile, Nintendo is always doomed.

 

[Skittzo]

While I'm happy that Nintendo just barely avoided dOoOo0meD status, I am indeed worried about Sony.

20k PS5s were sold that week and people bought no physical games along with it? Is everything digital now?
I'd be interested to see, beyond the Top 30, where and with how many units the first PS5 game appears.

Click to shrink...

One of the more likely explanations is that a lot of the PS5s being sold in Japan are being scalped elsewhere, like Asia or anecdotally South America.

We've gotten details on digital splits for a few titles and it's really no better than PS4 has been for the past few years.

 

[Oregano]

I do remember those recurring complaints, but I don't believe the end result would've changed. Maybe it would've taken slightly longer, but that's it. They would've eventually been forced to get onboard the Switch. Maybe they'd do so by going multiplat with dual Switch / PSV2 releases, but they'd be forced onto Switch regardless. The reason people were making those complaints is because, regardless of anything else, the trajectory for the Switch was becoming more and more visible.

Click to shrink...

The thing is about a hypothetical Vita 2 is the same thing we'll see with PlayStation 5 over the next few years, there's a limit to how small those userbases can be when they have assured third party support, a healthy cadence and high volume of releases means that the hardware has steady momentum. That's ultimately the reason the Vita outsold the Wii U in Japan despite the latter having much bigger hits, and more support from the manufacturer.

Vita 2 would have also had games that didn't get Switch versions in reality, most notably Persona 5 Royal would have at the very least been Vita 2/PS4.

You are correct that it would have needed some degree of first party support though, games like Soul Sacrifice and Freedom Wars definitely moved the needle in Vita's favour a little bit.

On the opposite side if we were back to a 3DS/Vita scenario where the Sony platform gets far more releases we would have seen Switch momentum be weaker overall(even if it was the clear victor) so there would have been less pressure for those publishers to release on Switch as well.

 

[ggx2ac]

Looking at the responses, if this was about Sony having a "monopoly" then Nintendo would be criticized here for not having a platform that is appealing to the Japanese market rather than the "<insert platform here> dominating is bad".

PS4 dominated Europe/Middle East/Asia against Xbox One and Wii U and that was hardly considered a bad thing. Any consumer with a brain knows that they'll buy a product that appeals to them, they're not going to go and buy a Wii U out of pity for it not selling well.

Regarding Sony in Japan, the writing was on the wall the moment they consolidated everything around the PS4 and dropped the Vita. Anyone that has followed the history knew where things were trending and them killing off the Vita made that transition quicker. Sony is the only competitor that decided that their console hardware is for playing the biggest games from the big publishers and the Vita lacked that from third parties and Sony wasn't going to put their weight behind Vita when PS4 was so successful.

We know from past articles written by Takashi Mochizuki that Sony was going to cater to the big publishers for PS5 and that Sony executives said that smaller developers will follow because they won't ignore the platform and yet... Reality doesn't follow that in Japan.

We've known for years based on sales data what kind of games sold on PS4 in Japan and even demographic surveys that confirmed the active PS4 audience is centralised around male teens and adults. The software library on PS4 was no longer as broad as on PS2 to attract a wide variety of people by age and gender.

Meanwhile, what did Nintendo do with the Switch? They pushed relentlessly to make Switch appeal to anyone by not focusing on making games that would appeal to the typical male teen/adult audience. They also knew from their failure with the Wii U that content is king so they reached out to Japanese and Western developers to put their games on Switch because some third parties still viewed Nintendo platforms as being family focused that they felt their games wouldn't sell. Remember Bethesda? It took Nintendo reaching out to them to get their games on Switch that when Bethesda's games exceeded expectations they continued to support Switch, we wouldn't even have Doom Eternal on Switch if their games didn't sell. Mortal Kombat 11 is still most likely the best selling third party game on Switch with an M rating (see how it debuted on NPD).

The point being is that PS5 is going to be a niche console in Japan because it only appeals to a specific group of people because of the decisions that Sony made. The Japanese small developers that relied on the PlayStation ecosystem for so long have jumped ship to Nintendo because they could no longer sustain their business on PlayStation alone.

Nintendo dominating software charts in Japan now is no surprise when there are more Japanese third party developers supporting Switch than PS5 and Xbox Series X|S combined.

 

[Kalentan]

Ultimately what is the consequence of this really?

Japan becomes Nintendo Land and Nintendo does great worldwide while Sony does great in most regions other than Japan.

It really feels like the only being affected are those that don't want a Switch and still want their PS4/5 to be primarily playing Japanese games.

Sony nor Nintendo are doomed. Both are doing good at different things.

Like maybe if this somehow meant that Sony was going to suddenly do worse everywhere else I could understand but there doesn't seem to be any indication of that.

 

[Beatle]

Well that's a piece of gaming history right there

 

[LostCauseUnite!]

Well, the thing is, making a portable that is as powerful as the PS4 is different than making a portable PS4. For one, the PS4 has a memory bandwith of 176 GB/s, while the steam deck, using top of the line LDDR5, has 88GB/s, and this is keeping it simple without going into latency, etc.

Making a portable PS4, this is a system that is capable of running PS4 software, is a significant challenge that has not been resolved at all by the reveal of the Deck. Also, the deck is significantly larger than the OG Switch, which some developers already considered too large for a true handheld.

Click to shrink...

To be fair to the steam deck, it should be less memory bandwidth constrained than GCN in the PS4, so it shouldn't translate linearly 1 to 1 being on a more efficient uArch. Not leaps and bounds mind you, but not as dire as it is made out to be.

 

[Skittzo]

Ultimately what is the consequence of this really?

Click to shrink...

Smaller Japanese titles that used to be Sony only are now also on Switch or in some cases completely skipping PS4/PS5. That's the main consequence here.

And that does affect Sony on a global level.

 

[DarkDetective]

Looking at the responses, if this was about Sony having a "monopoly" then Nintendo would be criticized here for not having a platform that is appealing to the Japanese market rather than the "<insert platform here> dominating is bad".

PS4 dominated Europe/Middle East/Asia against Xbox One and Wii U and that was hardly considered a bad thing. Any consumer with a brain knows that they'll buy a product that appeals to them, they're not going to go and buy a Wii U out of pity for it not selling well.

Regarding Sony in Japan, the writing was on the wall the moment they consolidated everything around the PS4 and dropped the Vita. Anyone that has followed the history knew where things were trending and them killing off the Vita made that transition quicker. Sony is the only competitor that decided that their console hardware is for playing the biggest games from the big publishers and the Vita lacked that from third parties and Sony wasn't going to put their weight behind Vita when PS4 was so successful.

We know from past articles written by Takashi Mochizuki that Sony was going to cater to the big publishers for PS5 and that Sony executives said that smaller developers will follow because they won't ignore the platform and yet... Reality doesn't follow that in Japan.

We've known for years based on sales data what kind of games sold on PS4 in Japan and even demographic surveys that confirmed the active PS4 audience is centralised around male teens and adults. The software library on PS4 was no longer as broad as on PS2 to attract a wide variety of people by age and gender.

Meanwhile, what did Nintendo do with the Switch? They pushed relentlessly to make Switch appeal to anyone by not focusing on making games that would appeal to the typical male teen/adult audience. They also knew from their failure with the Wii U that content is king so they reached out to Japanese and Western developers to put their games on Switch because some third parties still viewed Nintendo platforms as being family focused that they felt their games wouldn't sell. Remember Bethesda? It took Nintendo reaching out to them to get their games on Switch that when Bethesda's games exceeded expectations they continued to support Switch, we wouldn't even have Doom Eternal on Switch if their games didn't sell. Mortal Kombat 11 is still most likely the best selling third party game on Switch with an M rating (see how it debuted on NPD).

The point being is that PS5 is going to be a niche console in Japan because it only appeals to a specific group of people because of the decisions that Sony made. The Japanese small developers that relied on the PlayStation ecosystem for so long have jumped ship to Nintendo because they could no longer sustain their business on PlayStation alone.

Nintendo dominating software charts in Japan now is no surprise when there are more Japanese third party developers supporting Switch than PS5 and Xbox Series X|S combined.

Click to shrink...

Well said.

 

[Sqrt]

To be fair to the steam deck, it should be less memory bandwidth than GCN in the PS4, so it should translate linearly 1 to 1. Not leaps and bounds mind you, but not as dire as it is made out to be.

Click to shrink...

Oh, the deck is stronger than the PS4. But it wouldn't be able to run PS4 binary files for a portable PS4. It would need to have its own development path, making it a PSP3 rather than a miniaturized PS4 that could instantly run PS4 in a portable format.

 

[Kreed]

Yep, Sony has produced and funded far, far, far less software geared at Japanese audiences.

Click to shrink...

It's funny how many posts in this thread are ignoring the software/are continuously trying to make this about the Switch hardware (in a Software sales thread at that). Same thing goes with the posts I see about the Steam Deck. Regardless of how the Steam Deck sells, it isn't going to change the situation in Japan in regards to this software sales list unless it comes attached to exclusive software catering to Japanese audiences.

Looking at the responses, if this was about Sony having a "monopoly" then Nintendo would be criticized here for not having a platform that is appealing to the Japanese market rather than the "<insert platform here> dominating is bad".

PS4 dominated Europe/Middle East/Asia against Xbox One and Wii U and that was hardly considered a bad thing. Any consumer with a brain knows that they'll buy a product that appeals to them, they're not going to go and buy a Wii U out of pity for it not selling well.

Regarding Sony in Japan, the writing was on the wall the moment they consolidated everything around the PS4 and dropped the Vita. Anyone that has followed the history knew where things were trending and them killing off the Vita made that transition quicker. Sony is the only competitor that decided that their console hardware is for playing the biggest games from the big publishers and the Vita lacked that from third parties and Sony wasn't going to put their weight behind Vita when PS4 was so successful.

We know from past articles written by Takashi Mochizuki that Sony was going to cater to the big publishers for PS5 and that Sony executives said that smaller developers will follow because they won't ignore the platform and yet... Reality doesn't follow that in Japan.

We've known for years based on sales data what kind of games sold on PS4 in Japan and even demographic surveys that confirmed the active PS4 audience is centralised around male teens and adults. The software library on PS4 was no longer as broad as on PS2 to attract a wide variety of people by age and gender.

Meanwhile, what did Nintendo do with the Switch? They pushed relentlessly to make Switch appeal to anyone by not focusing on making games that would appeal to the typical male teen/adult audience. They also knew from their failure with the Wii U that content is king so they reached out to Japanese and Western developers to put their games on Switch because some third parties still viewed Nintendo platforms as being family focused that they felt their games wouldn't sell. Remember Bethesda? It took Nintendo reaching out to them to get their games on Switch that when Bethesda's games exceeded expectations they continued to support Switch, we wouldn't even have Doom Eternal on Switch if their games didn't sell. Mortal Kombat 11 is still most likely the best selling third party game on Switch with an M rating (see how it debuted on NPD).

The point being is that PS5 is going to be a niche console in Japan because it only appeals to a specific group of people because of the decisions that Sony made. The Japanese small developers that relied on the PlayStation ecosystem for so long have jumped ship to Nintendo because they could no longer sustain their business on PlayStation alone.

Nintendo dominating software charts in Japan now is no surprise when there are more Japanese third party developers supporting Switch than PS5 and Xbox Series X|S combined.

Click to shrink...

Remember this thread you made about the Japanese button placement?

PS5 ends the button logic of O for accept, X for cancel for Asia/Japan [Up: Cannot reconfigure]

Edit: Since this gets brought up a lot. Changing button assignments on the PS4 currently to swap O and X logic inputs does not do the same thing to the system UI and for UI in games. I have tested it right now and the PS4 system menu is still saying X for Enter when it should be Back. It's...

www.resetera.com

It may not seem like a "big deal", but it was another sign of the direction Sony has been going when it comes to Japan.

 

[LostCauseUnite!]

Oh, the deck is stronger than the PS4. But it wouldn't be able to run PS4 binary files for a portable PS4. It would need to have its own development path, making it a PSP3 rather than a miniaturized PS4 that could instantly run PS4 in a portable format.

Click to shrink...

I should clarify, I meant that it should be less of a memory bandwidth concern than the PS4 GCN as RDNA2 is not as bandwidth hungry. It should not be 1 to 1.

I'm not sure how my words were changed. That said, most PS4 games are multiplat so tweaking some settings for the SD should give a "good enough" experience. At least in the portable format. Maybe as a portable XB1/PS4 in between.

 

[Sqrt]

I should clarify, I meant that it should be less of a memory bandwidth concern than the PS4 GCN as RDNA2 is not as bandwidth hungry. It should not be 1 to 1.

I'm not sure how my words were changed. That said, most PS4 games are multiplat so tweaking some settings for the SD should give a "good enough" experience. At least in the portable format. Maybe as a portable XB1/PS4 in between.

Click to shrink...

Well, those are called ports. Yes, such a devise would be capable of receiving ports.

 

[LostCauseUnite!]

Well, those are called ports. Yes, such a devise would be capable of receiving ports.

Click to shrink...

They aren't ports if they already exist on steam.

 

[Oregano]

They aren't ports if they already exist on steam.

Click to shrink...

Right but an explicit portable PS4, as in a Sony handheld console that natively runs PS4 games would need to more closely match the specs of am actual PS4.

 

[LostCauseUnite!]

Right but an explicit portable PS4, as in a Sony handheld console that natively runs PS4 games would need to more closely match the specs of am actual PS4.

Click to shrink...

In the modern day you do not have to get 1:1 paper specs to match the same level of performance that the PS4 had. PS4 isn't some untouchable device.

And I'm only speaking of the paper specs vs RL perf of said device.

 

[Oregano]

In the modern day you do not have to get 1:1 paper specs to match the same level of performance that the PS4 had. PS4 isn't some untouchable device.

And I'm only speaking of the paper specs vs RL perf of said device.

Click to shrink...

Right, but you would need to do bespoke ports for the device. It couldn't just run PS4 software natively.

In the same way that the Series S can outperform the One X in real world performance but can't run backward compatibility in One X mode because it doesn't match the One X on some key specs.

That isn't an issue for Steam Deck because PC games are already developed with a wide array of specs on mind.

 

[LostCauseUnite!]

Right, but you would need to do bespoke ports for the device. It couldn't just run PS4 software natively.

In the same way that the Series S can outperform the One X in real world performance but can't run backward compatibility in One X mode because it doesn't match the One X on some key specs.

That isn't an issue for Steam Deck because PC games are already developed with a wide array of specs on mind.

Click to shrink...

But why Would it be a port? It already runs natively on PC and thus runs on the SD. Unless you are referring to something like a game being coded out of spec and closer to the metal for the PS4 which no platform other than the PS4 would actually run natively as those are completely exclusive To said hardware and present no issues for the PS4 and would only present an issue where it needs to be ported to the platform (PS5) to present no issues. Outside of that, where the majority of the games are (third party), the PS4 is not a device that is very difficult to meet or offer similar performance with some tweaking for the settings. It is't even targeting 1080p like the PS4 did in handheld mode as the screen doesn't go beyond 1280x800.


Unless it is some exclusive that comes after such as HZD or DS, which one did have problems, the other didn't And one of these runs relatively well even on lower cards, other does not.

In essence, my main point is that a portable device can offer similar perf, not necessarily that the SD will offer similar perf.

 

[Oregano]

But why Would it be a port? It already runs natively on PC and thus runs on the SD. Unless you are referring to something like a game being coded out of spec and closer to the metal for the PS4 which no platform other than the PS4 would actually run natively as those are completely exclusive To said hardware and present no issues for the PS4 and would only present an issue where it needs to be ported to the platform (PS5) to present no issues. Outside of that, where the majority of the games are (third party), the PS4 is not a device that is very difficult to meet or offer similar performance with some tweaking for the settings. It is't even targeting 1080p like the PS4 did in handheld mode as the screen doesn't go beyond 1280x800.

Click to shrink...

Because it's not about the Steam Deck, it's about whether Sony could make a portable PS4 based on the fact the Steam Deck is in the same ballpark power wise - and the answer is they can't.

 

[Kalentan]

Smaller Japanese titles that used to be Sony only are now also on Switch or in some cases completely skipping PS4/PS5. That's the main consequence here.

And that does affect Sony on a global level.

Click to shrink...

But does it? I feel like if those smaller titles actually hampered PS5's growth worldwide then maybe, but it seems like most of those games audiences have already long swapped over to the Switch.

 

[LostCauseUnite!]

Because it's not about the Steam Deck, it's about whether Sony could make a portable PS4 based on the fact the Steam Deck is in the same ballpark power wise - and the answer is they can't.

Click to shrink...

They absolutely can, and that isn't the limiting factor for why they can't as the hardware exists. The limiter is cost. Not the specs of it. RDNA2/ZEN2 matches or outclasses the PS4 GCN/Jaguar, even if the zen 2 were clocked to match the PS4 jaguar (1.6GHz, really low, offering more energy saving than the SD in this case) they would still offer a noticeable jump in the CPU and the RDNA2-based GPU is more performant relative to the GCN in the PS4 which are ancient at this point. Shifting the memory to something that offers higher bandwidth yet can consume less power is what makes it commercially unfeasible and makes the design a complex one to manufacture even though it has been designed and used by AMD in the past. And their lack of care for a portable device to develop for is what makes it difficult for them to enter back. Not on what the PS4 offers.

 

[DarkDetective]

For portable devices, battery duration and heat are also two very important problems.

 

[Skittzo]

But does it? I feel like if those smaller titles actually hampered PS5's growth worldwide then maybe, but it seems like most of those games audiences have already long swapped over to the Switch.

Click to shrink...

PS5 is still in its first year, it's hard to tell if it's going to be affected by this so soon. Software sales are possibly also more relevant than hardware sales.

 

[Nanashrew]

This first year is very dire on the software side with plenty of JP devs cancelling or not bothering with a PS5 version of their game. Or just releasing a digital only version on PS5 and not bothering with a physical release. It all has to do with the current situation of nothing really selling and It will surely have consequences into next year.

It's a mix of problems of being unable to supply enough systems or sell software in general. Especially made worse since the PS4's active userbase is winding down, and nobody has any idea what's going on with the PS5 situation that the only theory that makes any sense is that scalpers are selling them off to other countries. Because we also get data on the used games market in Japan too and we don't see any real changes in purchases of used games on PS4 to play on the PS5, which was another theory some had too. And historically, digital has always had a very slow adoption rate in Japan and still heavily lags behind the rest of the world. And even if in an unlikely scenario found that digital was doing something like 50%-60% of sales for a game, that would still make the sales minuscule because PS5 games rarely chart physically. You just have to look at the top 30 chart right now, you need a bare minimum of selling 2,256 units to make the top 30, and that has happened many times and you'll still struggle to see any PS5 games make the list.

I dunno where all I'm going with this, but the situation for Sony is dire, and the consequences can lead to worse things such has limiting shelf space in stores like what became of the Xbox. The situation needs to improve, and in the now, things are in a very terrible spot for the PS5, and PlayStation in general.

And of course, this is also in conjuction with everything else said in this thread about Sony's laser focus on one demographic, the 13-32 year old male, largely being propped up by their dedicated fanbase, their over reliance on 3rd parties to carve out the market and maintain it, lack of games of their own that appeal in Japan, lack of mainstream appeal beyond MH, DQ, and FF, etc.

You can cite a lot of things why their brand is doing poorly and why their software continues to crater, as it's not just 1 reason, it's a multitude of them.

 

[Arthands]

But why Would it be a port? It already runs natively on PC and thus runs on the SD. Unless you are referring to something like a game being coded out of spec and closer to the metal for the PS4 which no platform other than the PS4 would actually run natively as those are completely exclusive To said hardware and present no issues for the PS4 and would only present an issue where it needs to be ported to the platform (PS5) to present no issues. Outside of that, where the majority of the games are (third party), the PS4 is not a device that is very difficult to meet or offer similar performance with some tweaking for the settings. It is't even targeting 1080p like the PS4 did in handheld mode as the screen doesn't go beyond 1280x800.


Unless it is some exclusive that comes after such as HZD or DS, which one did have problems, the other didn't And one of these runs relatively well even on lower cards, other does not.

In essence, my main point is that a portable device can offer similar perf, not necessarily that the SD will offer similar perf.

Click to shrink...

It'll have to be ports because its the nature of close platform system. Sony isn't going to allow native PS4 version of games to run on a hypothetical PS4 Portable. They will ask the publisher to create a new portable version of their PS4 games, go through bunch of paperworks, testing and submit the game.

 

[Adventureracing]

Ultimately what is the consequence of this really?

Japan becomes Nintendo Land and Nintendo does great worldwide while Sony does great in most regions other than Japan.

It really feels like the only being affected are those that don't want a Switch and still want their PS4/5 to be primarily playing Japanese games.

Sony nor Nintendo are doomed. Both are doing good at different things.

Like maybe if this somehow meant that Sony was going to suddenly do worse everywhere else I could understand but there doesn't seem to be any indication of that.

Click to shrink...

For gamers it mostly just means that Sony will lose support from small and mid tier Japanese devs. Ultimately that's a personal thing how much that affects you.

On the broader market it's hard to say. Neither Sony or it's share holders will care whilst profits are booming and Sony is showing such incredible growth. The PS5 is STILL sold out so clearly they're doing fine.

I still think it's not an ideal situation to totally cede a market like this to your competitor. Sony sold around 20 million units of HW with PS1, PS2 and PSP and around 10 million with PS3 and PS4. I'd argue that's pretty significant and that potentially may totally shrink.

It may also have some knock on effect in other Asian markets (like we know Sony isn't performing well in Taiwan or SK).

Long term we'll have to wait and see what impact it has. Likely I think Sony will just keep steam rolling worldwide but there is the potential for this to impact them long term.

 

[SiG]

Seriously I don't think we should be worried about Sony. They always win. Especially with 3rd party support. Meanwhile, Nintendo is always doomed.

Click to shrink...

Why is such sentiment still tolerated? It's as if people here want Nintendo to fail.

 

[Sqrt]

They absolutely can, and that isn't the limiting factor for why they can't as the hardware exists. The limiter is cost. Not the specs of it. RDNA2/ZEN2 matches or outclasses the PS4 GCN/Jaguar, even if the zen 2 were clocked to match the PS4 jaguar (1.6GHz, really low, offering more energy saving than the SD in this case) they would still offer a noticeable jump in the CPU and the RDNA2-based GPU is more performant relative to the GCN in the PS4 which are ancient at this point. Shifting the memory to something that offers higher bandwidth yet can consume less power is what makes it commercially unfeasible and makes the design a complex one to manufacture even though it has been designed and used by AMD in the past. And their lack of care for a portable device to develop for is what makes it difficult for them to enter back. Not on what the PS4 offers.

Click to shrink...

Is not about power, is about whenever PS4 binaries would run without crashing or other significant issues...

 

[LostCauseUnite!]

It'll have to be ports because its the nature of close platform system. Sony isn't going to allow native PS4 version of games to run on a hypothetical PS4 Portable. They will ask the publisher to create a new portable version of their PS4 games, go through bunch of paperworks, testing and submit the game.

Click to shrink...

So the same thing as the PS5 then?

Is not about power, is about whenever PS4 binaries would run without crashing or other significant issues...

Click to shrink...

You are referring to games that can go out of spec such as perhaps exclusive games like TLOU or GoW?

 

[Sqrt]

So the same thing as the PS5 then?

You are referring to games that go out of spec which are usually exclusive games like TLOU or GoW?

Click to shrink...

All the PS4 games would face that issue. They would need to use the PC binaries and have the system run Windows or Linux+Proton, something that Sony will not do for obvious reasons, to do what you are saying. Even then, PS4 exclusive games would not be available on the system.

On the other hand, if that's what you want from a Sony portable, that device exist! It's called Steam Deck.

 

[LostCauseUnite!]

All the PS4 games would face that issue. They would need to use the PC binaries and have the system run Windows or Linux+Proton, something that Sony will not do for obvious reasons, to do what you are saying. Even then, PS4 exclusive games would not be available on the system.

On the other hand, if that's what you want from a Sony portable, that device exist! It's called Valve's Proton.

Click to shrink...

I don't understand your comment. It's a PS4 in portable form made by Sony, not the SD. The SD only shows that the ps4 in paper spec isn't unfeasible and they can get even closer. Why would it use Windows or Linux if Sony is the one that has the documented information for this hypothetical device? The games that would present an issue are those that go out of the spec of the hardware they were originally on and whether the PSP3 is able to remedy that without needing a port job like how PS4 games need to be ported to the PS5 to make proper use of the hardware. Whilst still offering hardware compatibility between the PS5 and PSP3 and not being these two different arch…. for the most part.

it just isn't economically feasible to have such a device at a low price.

 

[Sqrt]

I don't understand your comment. It's a PS4 in portable form made by Sony, not the SD. The SD only shows that the ps4 in paper spec isn't unfeasible and they can get even closer. Why would it use Windows or Linux if Sony is the one that has the documented information for this hypothetical device? The games that would present an issue are those that go out of the spec of the hardware they were originally on and whether the PSP3 is able to remedy that without needing a port job like how PS4 games need to be ported to the PS5 to make proper use of the hardware. Whilst still offering hardware compatibility between the PS5 and PSP3 and not being these two different arch…. for the most part.

it just isn't economically feasible to have such a device at a low price.

Click to shrink...

You have not idea what you are talking about. The Steam Deck, although overall more powerful, has slower main memory than the PS4. That alone would introduce a lot of compatibility issues when trying to run PS4 libraries. That is not an issue for the PS5 because is so much more powerful on all aspects over the PS4. And the PS5 has so much headroom over the PS5 that they can brute force other issues that might be present.

To help you understand that, look at the original Xbox. Is an x86 CPU with a Nvidia GPU. It should be easy to run all its game in your home PC, right? Except, is not. For several years it was impossible until an emulator was developed. For an emulator to be feasible, you need to have so much computational power advantage over the target system that (parts of the) hardware can be replicated in software.

Games developed for consoles target an specific set of hardware. They expect precise timing, hardware configurations and instructions sets. When these differs, you have issues. This is not an issue for PC games because these games are designed to run on flexible configurations and uses abstraction layer called DirectX, which in turn communicate with the drivers. Traditionally, console games are designed to communicate with the hardware with fewer (if at all) abstraction layers.

Microsoft started using DirectX, which they own, for the xbox which allowed them to more seemingly use different hardware. Sony did not. You can see this with the XBX and the PS4Pro: the xbox games automatically were able to run at higher resolution on the XBX, while PS4 games needed to be updated to use the enhanced features of the PS4Pro.

Now, the Steam Deck is the most powerful handheld x86 SoC ever announced. It stand to reason that is state of the art for what a mobile chip can be. Specially ones that need to run AMD GPUs. That system has significantly slower memory than the PS4. Even if we upgrade it to just-announced-last-week LPDDR5x, it would still be slower for any reasonable memory configuration. This is a significant issue for a system that aims to run PS4 binary files.

Can Sony develop a handheld system that ~PS4 in power? Yes, they can. But such system would need to have games developed or ported to it one by one, therefore not what people on this thread were asking for. What makes the Steam Deck so special is that it can run all your steam library out of the box.

 

[LostCauseUnite!]

You have not idea what you are talking about. The Steam Deck, although overall more powerful, has slower main memory than the PS4. That alone would introduce a lot of compatibility issues when trying to run PS4 libraries. That is not an issue for the PS5 because is so much more powerful on all aspects over the PS4. And the PS5 has so much headroom over the PS5 that they can brute force other issues that might be present.

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There is a reason why I said it is not economically feasible to match it on paper specs. But said paper specs do not always translate to RL perf especially comparing two different uArch. The PS5 is limited by the PS4 for PS4 games via back compatibility that they need to have a port done to them to actually run natively on the PS5 Regardless.

To help you understand that, look at the original Xbox. Is an x86 CPU with a Nvidia GPU. It should be easy to run all its game in your home PC, right? Except, is not. For several years it was impossible until an emulator was developed. For an emulator to be feasible, you need to have so much computational power advantage over the target system that (parts of the) hardware can be replicated in software.

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This literally does not matter for the device made by sony. It isn't an emulator. It isnt't a PC. It's a portable PS4 with modern PC hardware Similar to the steam deck. Not 1 to 1. Similar. There is a solution to the memory situation, but said solution, again that I've mentioned already, is not economically feasible.

Games developed for consoles target an specific set of hardware. They expect precise timing, hardware configurations and instructions sets. When these differs, you have issues. This is not an issue for PC games because these games are designed to run on flexible configurations and uses abstraction layer called DirectX, which in turn communicate with the drivers. Traditionally, console games are designed to communicate with the hardware with fewer (if at all) abstraction layers.


Microsoft started using DirectX, which they own, for the xbox which allowed them to more seemingly use different hardware. Sony did not. You can see this with the XBX and the PS4Pro: the xbox games automatically were able to run at higher resolution on the XBX, while PS4 games needed to be updated to use the enhanced features of the PS4Pro.

Now, the Steam Deck is the most powerful handheld x86 SoC ever announced. It stand to reason that is state of the art for what a mobile chip can be. Specially ones that need to run AMD GPUs. That system has significantly slower memory than the PS4. Even if we upgrade it to just-announced-last-week LPDDR5x, it would still be slower for any reasonable memory configuration. This is a significant issue for a system that aims to run PS4 binary files.

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You would have a point if it was a general purpose device, but the device I'm talking about is a device made by Sony, not by valve. It would not be running on windows at all.

A game in the PS ecosystem was going to need porting regardless because of Sony's compatibility, but not so dire that it cannot run it in any way. A device like the SD would need tweaked settings to match the multiplat games that exist and those are not ports if they already exist on steam. A device made by Sony that is portable and has similar again not the same hardware as the SD for the most part can have similar paper specs but outperform it.

I really don't understand why you responded like this, mainly the exclusive games would need more work done than the multiplat games.


That said we are going way off-topic.

edit: I'm talking about 2 different devices.

 

[plow]

PS5 is still in its first year, it's hard to tell if it's going to be affected by this so soon. Software sales are possibly also more relevant than hardware sales.

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Just looking at UK you can see that the PS5 Software is vastly outselling the other consoles. Every big release has sold best on PS5 often even having a 50% in Resident Evil Village case.

 

[Mpl90]

Just looking at UK you can see that the PS5 Software is vastly outselling the other consoles. Every big release has sold best on PS5 often even having a 50% in Resident Evil Village case.

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1) Software splits across systems in the first-week != software splits across systems as time goes on
2) Trends observed in the UK market don't necessarily reflect what's going on in other markets. Not that PS5 isn't doing well in other Western markets but we've witnessed multiple times how trying to linearly extrapolate sales / trends from the UK market is a worthless effort.

 

[plow]

1) Software splits across systems in the first-week != software splits across systems as time goes on
2) Trends observed in the UK market don't necessarily reflect what's going on in other markets. Not that PS5 isn't doing well in other Western markets but we've witnessed multiple times how trying to linearly extrapolate sales / trends from the UK market is a worthless effort.

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The same would go for the japanese market. Yet here we are discussing in 14 pages how the PS5 Software being weak in Japan would mean Sony is also "doomed" in the west.

 

[LostCauseUnite!]

The same would go for the japanese market. Yet here we are discussing in 14 pages how the PS5 Software being weak in Japan would mean Sony is also "doomed" in the west.

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….no one was arguing this

 

[Cheesebu]

Why is such sentiment still tolerated? It's as if people here want Nintendo to fail.

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Anyone saying "Nintendo is doomed" using the actual word 'doomed' is making a joke. I don't think they need to be censored lol

 

[plow]

….no one was arguing this

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Check the Thread i replied to

 

[Mpl90]

The same would go for the japanese market. Yet here we are discussing in 14 pages how the PS5 Software being weak in Japan would mean Sony is also "doomed" in the west.

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The scope the phenomenon we're witnessing in Japan (and parts of Asia) won't be replicated elsewhere: SIE games are hardware drivers and the system will get big games from major companies anyway.
At the same time, I think it's legitimate to wonder about the composition of the current PS5 userbase. Or rather, their purchasing habits. I'm not talking about big games: like I said, they'll sell no matter what. But I'm more referring to everything outside the big games: small-to-mid games, indie games, family games, etc. Is it possible that all SIE's focus on big titles is working so well that the userbase itself is getting less and less receptive towards games that aren't seen as "major deals"? Is it also possible that the focus on GAASs with microtransactions is building an audience laser-focused on them rather than different premium-priced experiences?

Again, not to the extend similar phenomenons are happening in Japan, but I think those are legitimate questions that don't necessarily spell "doom" for Sony and PS5, depending on how the situation will evolve and on how they could tackle them.

 

[Deleted member 10737]

The same would go for the japanese market. Yet here we are discussing in 14 pages how the PS5 Software being weak in Japan would mean Sony is also "doomed" in the west.

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let's not make stuff up. no one believes this.

 

[Aostia82]

Check the Thread i replied to

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That topic was discussing about small-to-medium Japanese games shifting.toward Switch, due to Japanese software sales (domestic sales are crucial for this kind of projects) and Sony changed approach to the Japanese landscape (the developers one, not only the consumer one), about these small-to-medium projects (not about big AAA games)

 

[Skittzo]

Just looking at UK you can see that the PS5 Software is vastly outselling the other consoles. Every big release has sold best on PS5 often even having a 50% in Resident Evil Village case.

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I thought it was clear that I was referring to small and mid tier japanese games. Globally, sales for those games will be smaller on PS5 than on PS4 if 1) the games are available on more platforms than they were on PS4 or 2) they skip PS5 all together.

Look at Disgea 6, that's already a mid tier game historically always on Sony platforms that completely skipped PlayStation platforms in the west in favor of Switch. Those are global software sales that Sony is now missing out on.

 

[LostCauseUnite!]

Check the Thread i replied to

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no one argued that.

 

[Arthands]

So the same thing as the PS5 then?

You are referring to games that can go out of spec such as perhaps exclusive games like TLOU or GoW?

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More closer to the Vita than the PS5.

 

[Kahhhhyle]

Ultimately what is the consequence of this really?

Japan becomes Nintendo Land and Nintendo does great worldwide while Sony does great in most regions other than Japan.

It really feels like the only being affected are those that don't want a Switch and still want their PS4/5 to be primarily playing Japanese games.

Sony nor Nintendo are doomed. Both are doing good at different things.

Like maybe if this somehow meant that Sony was going to suddenly do worse everywhere else I could understand but there doesn't seem to be any indication of that.

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Obviously it's still pretty early and the fastest way to change the current trajectory of the PS5 in Japan would be making more hardware available and a Monster Hunter game.

But I do question if something like that doesn't happen do Japanese devs start rethinking their releases? Like would Atlus ever consider multiplatform with Switch for Persona 6/7? (whenever they move on to PS5) As it stands now releasing a game like that on PS5 would be a pretty bad move.

How would a game like Scarlet Nexus have done if it debuted on Switch as well?

THe long term consequences if it PS doesn't start to do at least A LITTLE better is if devs want to sell their game in Japan they need to release on Switch. If you want to aim for better hardware your game needs to do well on the global market.

Again, obviously nothing set in stone. And these are just my own meaningless musings, but yeah...

 

[LostCauseUnite!]

More closer to the Vita than the PS5.

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Vita was a different device altogether which required a port job regardless for PS2 games as they couldn't fit PS2 hardware n the Vita unlike this hypothetical device but I think I know what you are referring to.

 

[Gartooth]

The full effects of what's happening here will become more apparent in the next few years once the PS4 stops maintaining a big enough active audience to justify releasing games on it. Already we can see developers skip the PS5 for AA and under games in favor of a Switch/PS4 release. Once that happens Playstation may very well lose Japanese content outside of the big blockbusters like your Resident Evil or Souls games.

 

[ILikeFeet]

Once that happens Playstation may very well lose Japanese content outside of the big blockbusters like your Resident Evil or Souls games.

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This is ridiculous. Those games aren't made for Japan in the first place. How playstation does in japan doesn't matter to those games