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Vanillalite

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,709
Look the same rational for why we needed any of this to begin with aka Covid still holds true today. Covid hasn't suddenly gone away even with the vaccine. The delta variant has proven to be the proverbial middle finger to the idea of getting back to normal.

So why then are we acting like we don't need another round of stimulus, continued unemployment benefits, moratorium on rent etc..? Like either you believed in the initial reasoning or you didn't for benefits. The situation ain't over FFS.
 

wenis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,114
absolutely. people should've been getting monthly stimulus checks from the start of covid and continuing into 2022. we are a broken country with a government that doesnt care about its people.
 

8byte

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
9,880
Kansas
absolutely. people should've been getting monthly stimulus checks from the start of covid and continuing into 2022. we are a broken country with a government that doesnt care about its people.

They care about some people.

Like, 10% of the population.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,546
Look the same rational for why we needed any of this to begin with aka Covid still holds true today. Covid hasn't suddenly gone away even with the vaccine. The delta variant has proven to be the proverbial middle finger to the idea of getting back to normal.

So why then are we acting like we don't need another round of stimulus, continued unemployment benefits, moratorium on rent etc..? Like either you believed in the initial reasoning or you didn't for benefits. The situation ain't over FFS.

I mean yes.

But we're not going to get it. We're at the "we're okay with dead kids" phase of things, we'll never get the aid or support we need.

They should put it into the reconciliation budget, if they were smart and politically savvy.

Then the GOP would DEFINITELY kill it and we'd be back to square one.

"The dems just want people to be rewarded for doing nothing but sitting around drinking alcohol and masturbating in their homes. That's not what america is about!"

It'd be suicide for a bill that's being pushed through via pure coersion and the threat of losing political ground through the actual death of your constituents.
 

Osu 16 Bit

QA Lead at NetherRealm Studios
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,925
Chicago, IL
Someone smarter than me can post actual data but it seems to me that the situation isn't the same. Like I am skeptical of the idea things are as bad as they were last year when we are not locking down.
 

Mr. Keith

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,940
It's amazing that the vaccine is so readily available but that fact was always going to be used against people to fuck them over and force them back to work.

I also don't think the third round of unemployment would be very effective with all the asshole governors cutting people off it.
 

jph139

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,385
If we did things the right way in the first place, we wouldn't be in a situation that requires ongoing stimulus at this point. But we didn't, and we won't, so we are. We're well into the "new normal" and "you gotta live with it" stage.

We should have UBI even without a pandemic, though.
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
10,019
b/c it is, for people who chose to get vaxxed, if people chose not too, exept childran, they know the risks at this point.
but since we refuse to mandate vaccines and people refuse to get the vaccine..........it's not over and everyone vaccinated or not is still living in a pandemic.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,184
Someone smarter than me can post actual data but it seems to me that the situation isn't the same. Like I am skeptical of the idea things are as bad as they were last year when we are not locking down.
It's not as bad. The issue is morons not getting vaccinated.

There are structural issues that have been exposed though. How are people going to pay that back rent for example? What about medical debt for those that survived near death exposures.
 
Jan 29, 2018
9,396
The pandemic is still with us but everything is open for business (and hiring). Wasn't the original rationale for the stimulus and enhanced UI that businesses were either temporarily or permanently shut down as we (haphazardly and inconsistently) shut down last spring?
 

eathdemon

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,690
but since we refuse to mandate vaccines and people refuse to get the vaccine..........it's not over and everyone vaccinated or not is still living in a pandemic.
and the best way to make people get the vaccine, whiteout outright mandating it, is make it to painful not too. look at the numbers we are over 1 million shots given again, last time was 7 months ago. the reason, its become too painful not to. no interest in rewarding bad behavior.
 

lenovox1

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,995
The pandemic is still with us but everything is open for business (and hiring). Wasn't the original rationale for the stimulus and enhanced UI that businesses were either temporarily or permanently shut down as we (haphazardly and inconsistently) shut down last spring?

Yeah. Dems no longer have leverage they can use to push a new round of payments through.
 

eathdemon

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,690
The pandemic is still with us but everything is open for business (and hiring). Wasn't the original rationale for the stimulus and enhanced UI that businesses were either temporarily or permanently shut down as we (haphazardly and inconsistently) shut down last spring?
prity much, but a lort of people are trying to backdoor the pandemic as a excuse for ubi. let me be clear, I support ubi, but argue that if thats what they want. its the same for the eviction ban.
 

tokkun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,409
Here is the most recent twelve months of unemployment data, which came out about 2 weeks ago:

hWhZEuO.png


Unemployment in July was lower than expected. Politically it is going to be hard to pass stimulus when unemployment is low. At the beginning of the pandemic, unemployment spiked up above 15%. That was a big part of the motive for the enhanced benefits.

The Delta outbreak started in July, so it may be that the effects are not there in the data yet.
 

metal

Banned
Nov 26, 2020
1,251
Isn't the jobless claims and unemployment almost down to pre-COVID levels in the states now (not to mention the labor shortage)? Why should they pass more stimulus bills (specifically in regards to COVID relief)?
 

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,321
I mean yes.

But we're not going to get it. We're at the "we're okay with dead kids" phase of things, we'll never get the aid or support we need.



Then the GOP would DEFINITELY kill it and we'd be back to square one.

"The dems just want people to be rewarded for doing nothing but sitting around drinking alcohol and masturbating in their homes. That's not what america is about!"

It'd be suicide for a bill that's being pushed through via pure coersion and the threat of losing political ground through the actual death of your constituents.
I thought the thing with the reconciliation bill is that it can't be tanked by GOP no matter the cost or content(besides them going to town on pressuring the moderate dems like Manchin).
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
10,019
and the best way to make people get the vaccine, whiteout outright mandating it, is make it to painful not too. look at the numbers we are over 1 million shots given again, last time was 7 months ago. the reason, its become too painful not to. no interest in rewarding bad behavior.
stimmy for vaccinated only then lol
 

Grugga Pug

Member
Nov 5, 2017
444
Unfortunately, this won't happen. While the pandemic is still ongoing, there are plenty of businesses hiring and desperate for workers. The work is there (even if the pay isn't good, that's a whole different subject), so that can't be used as rationale anymore.
 

LProtagonist

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
7,589
The pandemic is worse than it was a year ago but we've all basically been forced to get back to work and people are basically doing whatever they want. So the reality is that there should be another lockdown on top of all that.
 

SquirrelSr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,024
Unfortunately, this won't happen. While the pandemic is still ongoing, there are plenty of businesses hiring and desperate for workers. The work is there (even if the pay isn't good, that's a whole different subject), so that can't be used as rationale anymore.
Literally asking people to die for the economy.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
Yes we do, but I think there is almost no chance we're going to get it.

stimmy for vaccinated only then lol
I am 100% behind paying people to get vaccinated.

Literally asking people to die for the economy.
That has generally been the approach this country took for covid, and the joke is that long term it wasn't even a good approach for The Economy, but we don't think long term, even though long term here is measured in weeks and months.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,546
are we? or we have geven them a free way to protect themselves (vaccine), but a large number refuse to take it.

I mean even if you consider that to be the truth, the fact that half the country refuses to take it, for whatever reason, paired with the fact that the delta variant is spreadable by the vaccinated means it's still not safe.

But as we said, no one cares that it's not safe. So yeah, in a lot of cases, we're asking people to die for the economy.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,945
Things are definitely not the same. Unemployment is down to a normal range and there are still a lot of stimulus package funds being distributed (child tax credit, rental assistance, etc.).
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
are we? or we have geven them a free way to protect themselves (vaccine), but a large number refuse to take it.
The way I see it, the best catalyst at this point for getting people off the fence about the vaccine (or bringing them over from the other side) is employer mandates.

Especially the big box stores, rural small town mom & pop shops would probably be run out of business if they tried it, but companies like Walmart or Amazon won't give a shit.
 

lenovox1

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,995
Things are definitely not the same. Unemployment is down to a normal range and there are still a lot of stimulus package funds being distributed (child tax credit, rental assistance, etc.).

I keep forgetting that states still haven't spent all of the money they were given after the very first stimulus.
 

Grugga Pug

Member
Nov 5, 2017
444
Literally asking people to die for the economy.
I mean, the mortality rate of those who've been vaccinated is very low.

Things are definitely not the same as they were last year. There's still stimulus assistance circulating, and the economy isn't nearly as bad. But I understand where you're coming from, to an extent.
 

Aaron

I’m seeing double here!
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,077
Minneapolis
You may be right, I think my mindset is still in the Infrastructure bill mode.
They are correct. The reconciliation bill can be passed with Democratic votes alone. Granted, that involves getting Manchin and Sinema on board, but still a much easier lift.

Fwiw the recon bill extends several initiatives from the ARP (the boosted CTC/EITC and Obamacare subsidies among them), but I strongly doubt we get another UE benefits/stimulus checks bill anytime soon.
 

Anton Sugar

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,946
Considering the minimum wage is still abysmally low and the impacts of the pandemic recession are still being felt (ask anyone who has been in danger of eviction for the past year), we should have a stimulus/benefits, yes.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,043
It's not "as bad as it was last year," either with the virus but especially with the consequences of the virus. Stimulus and unemployment stipend was an appropriate response to a plummetting of demand, plummetting of production, dramatic increase in unemployment, from the lowest since the end of WW2 to the highest since before WW2 in a matter of weeks.

It's basically the opposite now. Consumer demand is very, very high. Supply can't keep up. Production is nearly back to what it was pre-pandemic (or back depending on what you look at). Demand for services and hospitality is as high as it was pre-pandemic, higher for some sectors because of pent up demand. I'm usually the one pouring water whenever somebody writes a bad intentioned thread about inflation. In 2020, consumer demand and industrial production actually fell into recession territory in Jan and Feb, before the pandemic was really felt in the the US (there were positive cases and deaths we now know but most people think of the public health emergency really starting late Feb, early March).

That said I think further stimulus could make sense but it should be aggressively means tested, more so than the previous stimulus. This is a tale of two recessions: middle class and upperclass savings grew, lower class savings was depleted. I think people making less than the median salary probably should get some further economic relief, but it's a hard case to make when demand is outpacing supply as much as it has in the last 3-6 mos that 80% of Americans should get stimulus relief. Passing stimulus that just targets those who need it most is difficult because it ends up lacking majority support usually. One reason the means testing was pretty relaxed for even the last stimulus was because it's easier to pass a stimulus law that benefits 80% of Americans instead of 35% of Americans, but economically that'd have the biggest positive impact.

Combined with making the child tax credit that's part of Biden's American Families Plan permanent, I think a stimulus for low earners, hourly employees, and those who's income is X% lower in 2021 versus 2019 would make sense to also bring that earnings/savings gap a little closer. Politically though that's a non starter.

A better case could be made to target an extension of unemployment benefits for all of the states suffering the worst of the delta surge -- Republican, conservative states that have low vaccination rates. Especially targeting poor communities where hourly employees have to go back to work and they're more exposed to covid due to lower vaccination rates. I'm not sure if that could win a majority politically but it'd be the most effective way to spend the money, although it'd effectively be a blue state bailout for bad governance in red states something that most people in revenue generating states (largely coastal democratic states, liberal cities) have a harder time swallowing. There's also the factor that those conservative Republicans states won't use the unemployment stipend.

Locally, there is billions in leftover funding from the previous covid bills and the ARP. I think my city has $110m in unused rescue plan funding. I think that's a solid candidate for distribution either as stimulus or unemployment benefits. That could also be targeted to people who need it most where the affect will be felt the strongest (eg high risk, retail, low income or front line hourly workers). In my city we're supporting a racial justice commission which will be involved on how best to use those funds. It's not exactly being labelled as "reparations" because that'd kill the proposal even in a progressive city, but the intention of the commission/advisory group is to target areas of need with the money the most, which are generally black, latino, and white working class urban neighborhoods.
 
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Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,587
I think the vaccine existing is a major difference between now and last year. Jobs are also apparently abundant right now.
 

Chikor

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
14,239
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/b...ment-benefits-with-stimulus-funds-11629389054

Well today it seems he's not extending the UI benefits but is leaving it up to the states to extend it. How likely that happens who knows.

Red states are super fucked with that choice though.
God I hope they come to their senses and don't let this expire.
Though congress is going to be on vacation between now and the expiration date so I don't have much hopes.
 

Smokeymicpot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,841
The world isn't shut down like it was last year. The vaccine is out and unemployment is low. Not happening.
 

chefbags

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,289
God I hope they come to their senses and don't let this expire.
Though congress is going to be on vacation between now and the expiration date so I don't have much hopes.

Same here. Wish they just extended it to the end of the year in the first place. Leaving it to September is pretty cruel.