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Woodstock 99: Peace, Love and Rage [HBO Max Documentary]

wenis

wenis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,113
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Unfolding over three days of intense heat and non-stop performances, Woodstock 99: Peace, Love, and Rage examines how the festival eventually collapsed under the weight of its own misguided ambition and resulted in a grim outcome, earning the event the infamous distinction of "the day the nineties died." The documentary focuses a spotlight on American youth at the end of the millennium, in the shadow of Columbine and the looming hysteria of Y2K, pinpointing a moment in time when the angst of a generation galvanized into a seismic cultural shift. Set to a soundtrack of the era's most aggressive rock bands, the film also reappraises the 1960s mythos, revealing hard truths about the dangers of rose-tinted nostalgia in the age of commercialism and bottom-line profits.
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Just wrapping it up now. What a doc. Lots of talkin heads segments and some of them will DEFINITELY make you angry. One of the promoters especially still passing the buck off to Limp Bizkit, passing the buck of sexual assaults back at the women not even acknowledging that maybe their lineup with all these aggressive as fuck bands just aint it. It's fuckin wild. Already knew a lot of this story to begin with but its perhaps the most comprehensive look and getting the thoughts on it from the people right there on stage and off, but also prepare yourself to see a lot of bands and acts of the 90's lookin very much their age now.

Must watch

 
ezekial45

ezekial45

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,752
Wow, I had no idea this doc was a thing. I was very young when this happened, but I remember the footage of the riots and violence on MTV left me feeling upset and terrified. I'll try to check this out later.
 
whytemyke

whytemyke

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
3,786
I'm dragging my feet on resubbing to Max until Suicide Squad comes out, but this is definitely on the agenda for when I do in a few weeks.

Kinda curious to see how Simmons is doing with building these docs. I heard the Andre the Giant one was fantastic.
 
Cranster

Cranster

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,788
Calderc said:
Looking forward to watching, but come on now...
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It's true that the music itself was far more aggressive than Woodstock 1969. Wouldn't say the music itself was responsible but some of the types of people it attracted could have been a factor. The culture at the time was much difirent aswell. Was not really the peace and love hippie culture of the late 60's anymore.
 
Bigkrev

Bigkrev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,322
I had heard a bunch of the stories in this over the years, but something new to me was the DMX "My *****" crowd response song. Wesley Morris basically saying "this crowd was 99.9% white, what on earth was he thinking?!?"
 
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wenis

wenis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,113
Calderc said:
Looking forward to watching, but come on now...
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it's truly something else because the promoters that put 94 and 99 together are people who went to the original 69 woodstock and wanted to capture that same energy which was supposed to be three days of peace, love and music but they didnt even briefly consider that hey most of these bands are making aggressive as hell music and for some reason there's only three women led acts, one for each day. just a lot to unpack.

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Bigkrev said:
I had heard a bunch of the stories in this over the years, but something new to me was the DMX "My *****" crowd response song. Wesley Morris basically saying "this crowd was 99.9% white, what on earth was he thinking?!?"
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Yep, that section was crazy. Like what the fuck was goin on. Wish X was still around just to get his thoughts on the matter.
 
Calderc

Calderc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,964
Cranster said:
It's true that the music itself was far more aggressive than Woodstock 1969. Wouldn't say the music itself was responsible but some of the types of people it attracted could have been a factor.
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You know that music, and music much more aggressive, still exists right? And it exists at music festivals the world over every year. And 'the types of people it attracts' remains the same every year, so...no.
 
blame space

blame space

Resettlement Advisor
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,420
it's fine, but kinda sloppy. didn't mind watching it but it's not as deep as it seems to think it is, at times.
 
blame space

blame space

Resettlement Advisor
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,420
being there sounds like hell. at one point the one journalist is like, "at some point the question becomes.. why stay?"

that scher guy sucks bad
 
Calderc

Calderc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,964
wenis said:
it's truly something else because the promoters that put 94 and 99 together are people who went to the original 69 woodstock and wanted to capture that same energy which was supposed to be three days of peace, love and music but they didnt even briefly consider that hey most of these bands are making aggressive as hell music and for some reason there's only three women led acts, one for each day. just a lot to unpack.

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Because this was at the height of nu-metal which was one of if not the most popular genres at the time. They booked those acts because they sold tickets.
 
steveovig

steveovig

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,171
Besides Michael Che's show, this was something I was considering subbing for. I was big into ICP back then, in high school, and I remember hearing they played there. Wild stuff.
 
Shades

Shades

Member
Oct 27, 2017
547
I haven't thought about this festival probably since 1999

Will definitely give it a watch
 
Cranster

Cranster

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,788
Calderc said:
You know that music, and music much more aggressive, still exists right? And it exists at music festivals the world over every year. And 'the types of people it attracts' remains the same every year, so...no.
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That is true, but I would argue attitudes and behaviour have changed and improved at music festivals since Woodstock 99. Nobody wants to repeat it.
 
jml

jml

Member
Mar 9, 2018
4,783
Cranster said:
It's true that the music itself was far more aggressive than Woodstock 1969. Wouldn't say the music itself was responsible but some of the types of people it attracted could have been a factor.
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It's not "aggressiveness" of the music as much as it was the overall toxic culture. This was pretty much the peak of the era of heteronormative toxic masculinity in pop culture and it wasn't limited to music.

But aggressiveness of the music? I've been to metal and punk shows where the crowd was more chill and welcoming than a crowd at an twee indie pop concert.
 
Conal

Conal

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,868
Metal heads are usually pretty chill. You're more likely to get groped at a Maroon 5 concert.
 
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wenis

wenis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,113
Calderc said:
Because this was at the height of nu-metal which was one of if not the most popular genres at the time. They booked those acts because they sold tickets.
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im aware and they bring that up in the doc that they went for what they sold, but there surely was a more equitable way of spreading these acts out, putting more in the day bringing in softer bands that fit within the equilibrium of the Woodstock aesthetic. It dives well enough into the subject of where we were as a culture I think. It's a tough and weird situation.
 

Deleted member 7148

Oct 25, 2017
6,827
I can't believe that promoter guy flat out victim blamed the rape victims of Woodstock 99. What a piece of shit.

Great doc on the event, though. It looked like a nightmare. People rolling around in puddles of piss and shit. Looking forward to more from this Music Box series of documentaries.

Also, say what you want about Korn, but damn their set was pretty amazing there.
 
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sugar bear

sugar bear

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,642
Watched it last night. What a disaster, the Altamont of the 90s. All the super aggressive "asshole rock" artists are my idea of a bad time.
 
poptire

poptire

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,981
I almost made this thread the other night. Really dug the documentary.

I was in 10th grade when Woodstock '99 was going on and remember watching the chaos on MTV, with Kurt Loder reporting.

And while I don't think the bands themselves are responsible for what happened, a few headliners (notably Kid Rock and Limp Bizkit) absolutely stoked the fires of discontent on-stage.
 
UnluckyKate

UnluckyKate

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,549
I have tons of VHS of rock band playing there, from Korn, to Limp Bizkit and more.

Korn openning their act with Blind is still the most impressive crowd moving I've ever seen. The entire horizon is a wave of people moving jumping, forming a human wave into the night



(from the first minute mark)
 
Soundscream

Soundscream

Member
Nov 2, 2017
9,234
Watched it last night and had major flashbacks. I just graduated high school and thought about going. But then I remembered how humid out summers are and said fuck that. Orders day 2 on ppv in my nice air conditioned house.
 
Ninhead

Ninhead

Drive-in Mutant
Avenger
Nov 18, 2017
2,300
This really pissed me off.

The one writer saying to blame only the young white men for the destruction (I mean...) and sexual assaults (100% accurate) and not Limp Bizkit, (while showing Durst's antics on stage all but endorsing and egging it on) and then twenty minutes later saying that looting ATMs and burning Mercedes Benz's was deserved because of rich people was a particularly strange set of takes. I feel like Dave Holmes, Wesley Morris and Steven Hyden are the only ones to give any kind of realistic and thoughtful criticism out of anyone interviewed.

The fact that this festival went another day after what happened on Saturday should be enough for there to be organizers in jail.
 
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Gr8one

Gr8one

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,328
Lol da fuq you talking about aggressive. Most of the artists at Woodstock 99 don't make whatever the fuck you think aggressive music is.

There's shit way more "aggressive" music today than most of the "aggressive" artists like Korn or Limp Bizkit.

Yikes dude.

Edit: sorry Calderc didn't mean to quote you. This what happens why I do this on mobile.
 
pokeystaples

pokeystaples

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,353
Watched it with my wife yesterday. My first takeaway was…I totally forgot just how many dudes there were at this thing. The balance is so off it's jarring. It's like a preview of "white dudes in shades" Twitter.
 
poptire

poptire

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,981
Music today might be more aggressive, but at that particular point in time people expressed that aggression in a very negative way.

They saw MTV and the music industry as a whole shifting away from the white male target demo that had been catered to for decades and lashed out.
 
Joeyjoejoeshabadoo

Joeyjoejoeshabadoo

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Oct 28, 2017
4,156
I remember being really jealous of the people who went but in hindsight I'm glad I was on a different coast. I've been to music festivals in similar areas (concrete and blacktop) and they are fucking miserable. The closest I got to the concert was owning the double CD.
 

Cruets

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Nov 1, 2017
646
I blame the promoters for booking angry white boy bands. What did they expect to happen? Woodstock 94 seem to go off well with a more inclusive lineup
 
blame space

blame space

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Oct 25, 2017
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the promoters are definitely to blame, but i'm not really sure blaming the lineup is the way to go here.
 
karmaforgotme

karmaforgotme

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Oct 27, 2017
893
Knoxville, TN
Cruets said:
I blame the promoters for booking angry white boy bands. What did they expect to happen? Woodstock 94 seem to go off well with a more inclusive lineup
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This is not it. There have been tons of shows or festivals with angry bands or even more aggressive metal with this not happening. You remind me of the PMRC or Satanic panic people back in the 80's.

Funny the 2 times in my life I felt like a show was going to turn into a riot was from bands with members of several races (Suicidal Tendencies and Rage Against the Machine). I wouldn't have blamed the bands, it was a certain element of the crowd.
 
shaneo632

shaneo632

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Oct 29, 2017
29,008
Wrexham, Wales
I found the thorough dunking on nu metal pretty simplistic overall, and some of the interview subjects seemed to like the sound of their own voices a little too much (especially the journalist from Spin).

It's a good doc mainly due to the archive footage but found some of the claims pretty tenuous (mainly that grunge was a mega-progressive brand of music).

The organisers showed their asses in an amazing way during the contemporary interviews though.
 
Donepalace

Donepalace

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Mar 16, 2019
2,628
This was all on the festival organisers it was a shitty setup from the beginning people were tired ,exhausted deprived of water and food 4 dollars for a bottle of water wtf the heat wouldn't have helped it just looked like a miserable time you let that all build up over 3 days it's gonna get nasty and it did one of the mob even says towards the end they are doing this for profit not peace love etc

it has nothing to do with angry white males,90s teens , nu metal,90s actionmovies ,mtv rich people blah blah it's all scapegoating BS
 
Cheesebu

Cheesebu

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Sep 21, 2020
6,177
If immature white boy raprock is the most aggressive music you've ever heard, you're missing out on some good shit.

Funny how Warped Tour could zig zag the country with metalcore heavy lineups for several years in a row without it turning into a cesspool of rape and destruction.
 
Bobby Peru

Bobby Peru

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Jun 10, 2020
218
Limp Bizkit getting a lot of crap over Woodstock 99 was the beginning of the downfall of nu-metal, and while it's moronic to blame the bands for what transpired (that responsibility lies solely with the promoters) - let's admit that by that point the primary nu-metal fanbase has switched over from skinny 90s goth teens to meathead frat bros.

The debate over whether or not Limp Bizkit/Korn are aggressive in comparison to more trve kvlt metal bands is some middle schooler discourse.
 
Newlib

Newlib

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,822
Looking back Late 90s culture was the absolute worst. It took all the anti-authority sentiments from earlier in the decade, focused on the worst aspects of those sentiments and turned them up to 11.

Woodstock 99 was a pretty terrible mirror of the culture at the time.
 
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wenis

wenis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,113
Bobby Peru said:
Limp Bizkit getting a lot of crap over Woodstock 99 was the beginning of the downfall of nu-metal, and while it's moronic to blame the bands for what transpired (that responsibility lies solely with the promoters) - let's admit that by that point the primary nu-metal fanbase has switched over from skinny 90s goth teens to meathead frat bros.

The debate over whether or not Limp Bizkit/Korn are aggressive in comparison to more trve kvlt metal bands is some middle schooler discourse.
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and I need to fully emphasize that people should watch the doc. within the context of this event and the doc its emphasized how culturally white cis males were expressly targeted by the music as being for them and the purile and misogynistic expression of thought was carried along with it. I dont personally believe music makes people evil (something else that this doc touches on), but when you're baking in the sun for 3 days, people using the free water you're supposed to drink as a bath, toilets overflowing with shit and seeping into the camp ground, then you just throw some heapings of music that these audiences took as a way to express their anger and frustration and the general feeling that you and what you enjoy is for sale by any means necessary was the perfect powder keg then to top it all off a non-profit group that was there to bring people together in remembrance of the victims of the Columbine shooting by all holding a candle light vigil in their honor with literal candles that these sun fried white boys then used to set the camp on fire was just the wildest shit I have heard. It's simply a must watch doc.
 
Palette Swap

Palette Swap

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
11,212
jml said:
It's not "aggressiveness" of the music as much as it was the overall toxic culture. This was pretty much the peak of the era of heteronormative toxic masculinity in pop culture and it wasn't limited to music.
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Yeah, honestly, this wasn't about the music itself as it was about a specific cultural environment that permeated the whole show.
 

Zyae

Prophet of Truth
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Mar 17, 2020
2,057
Blaming the music acts for this is a very boomeresque deflection of blame.
 
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