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‘World’s first’ festival for women, trans and non-binary people set to return despite being ruled discriminatory against cis men

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Kyuuji

Kyuuji

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Statement Festival is a newly launched festival that was created as a response to the countless sexual assaults towards women that has occurred at several music festivals. The festival will be Sweden's first large music festival free from cis-men, and the purpose is to make a clear statement towards the sexual assaults in our society.

The two-day festival was formally condemned by the Swedish Discrimination Ombudsman in 2018 because of its "man-free" ethos, but will return to Gothenburg on September 4-5.
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The ombudsman found the festival in breach of anti-discrimination laws, but was unable to issue any sanction because in practice no men were physically blocked from buying a ticket or attending.
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"We were condemned over the communication about the festival, not any actual discrimination in place," Knyckare explained.
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From the Statement Festival FAQ:
What is Statement Festival?
Statement Festival is a newly launched festival that was created as a response to the countless sexual assaults towards women that has occurred at several music festivals. The festival will be Sweden's first large music festival free from cis-men, and the purpose is to make a clear statement towards the sexual assaults in our society.

Why do we need Statement Festival?
It is inexcusable that so many of us feel like we need a free zone from cis-men to make us feel safe. However, it is what reality looks like and therefore we would like to create an alternative for people who are not cis-men, and who wants to visit a festival without being scared. We are going to create a festival where safety and security is not a dream, but an obvious and something indisputable.

Why are you excluding cis-men?
We are excluding cis-men because we want to create a festival where women, non-binary people and trans people can enjoy awesome music without the fear of assaults, violations or threats.

Do you believe that all cis-men are rapists?
No, of course we do not believe that. On the contrary, we don't know which men are guilty of the sexual offenses towards others at for example music festivals, and that is why we are creating a free zone where people who are not cis-men can feel safe. We simply want to be able to visit a festival without being scared, so during these two days cis-men will have to find something else to do.
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Volimar

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How many cis men attended last year? I wonder if it's a problem since they can't forbid them. Any word on the line up yet?
 
Lightning Count

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Fuck off
Anyone who thinks this is discriminating against cis men can fuck all the way fucking off into the sun.

Patriarchy is bullshit and systematically oppressive.
 
Jon_Sama

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I'm curious to hear reports from people that attended this festival and how different the experience was for them. As a man I've never had to worry about my self like this at a festival, sucks that that is the reality for many female festival goers
 
Kirblar

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The concept here is unfortunately straight out of the predator/prey dynamic from Serano's "Nice Guys Finish Last." Because just excluding the cis men doesn't mean you're going to necessarily be free of assaults, violations or threats.
Jon_Sama said:
Well it's cis-men specifically that are being excluded, so it could be referring to trans men & women. Otherwise yeah, unfortunate wording.
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Yeah this seemed pretty clearly the intention since they're not excluding trans men.
 
Dyle

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I have to wonder if any cis men came last year, for instance with their spouse, and just lied and said they identify as non-binary
 

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The only thing about this sort of thing that seems problematic is that there can't really be any sort of vetting process. You just have to hope cis men don't come because you say they aren't allowed.
 
Volimar

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Kirblar said:
I mean, they were.
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Do you believe that all cis-men are rapists?
No, of course we do not believe that. On the contrary, we don't know which men are guilty of the sexual offenses towards others at for example music festivals, and that is why we are creating a free zone where people who are not cis-men can feel safe. We simply want to be able to visit a festival without being scared, so during these two days cis-men will have to find something else to do.
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What are you doing?
 
Kirblar

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Volimar said:
What are you doing?
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I'm saying that predatory individuals aren't restricted to cis men and thus excluding them (while reducing the pool proportionally because yes, they're overrepresented in that group) doesn't solve that problem to the point anyone can be "free of fear." I'm not accusing them of saying all cis men are predators.
 
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Kyuuji

Kyuuji

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Kirblar said:
I mean, they were.
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What's your point though, other than coming in with some "uh.. well actually". People are adults and aren't going believing that there's some magical force barrier preventing sexual assault around the sacred grounds of this festival. "It can't actually stop people from being assaulted!". Nitpicking around the obvious for what?
 
Volimar

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Kirblar said:
I'm saying that predatory individuals aren't restricted to cis men and thus excluding them (while reducing the pool proportionally because yes, they're overrepresented in that group) doesn't solve that problem to the point anyone can be "free of fear." I'm not accusing them of saying all cis men are predators.
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Nobody is sincerely arguing that. And I quoted that because of the "we don't know which men are guilty of the sexual offenses towards others at for example music festivals". They acknowledge that not only cis men are responsible for assaults.
 
Jon_Sama

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Kirblar said:
I mean, they were.
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Men are responsible for the vast majority of sexual violence in America. According to a 2010 National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey, 90 percent of perpetrators of sexual violence against women are men. Moreover, when men are victims of sexual assault (an estimated one in 71 men, and one in six boys), 93 percent reported their abuser was a man. It's true that women also assault men, but even when victims of all genders are combined, men perpetrate 78 percent of reported assaults.
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There is inevitably always going to be some risk involved in social gatherings like this, yes. But cis-men are by far the biggest risk factor, so excluding them is the effective way of alleviating fears of assault.
 

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Kirblar said:
The concept here is unfortunately straight out of the predator/prey dynamic from Serano's "Nice Guys Finish Last." Because just excluding the cis men doesn't mean you're going to necessarily be free of assaults, violations or threats.

Yeah this seemed pretty clearly the intention since they're not excluding trans men.
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Context for the essay referred to here.

 

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Yaboosh said:
The only thing about this sort of thing that seems problematic is that there can't really be any sort of vetting process. You just have to hope cis men don't come because you say they aren't allowed.
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Yeah, it was like that the first time. What I think cause the controversy was the mistreatment of male band members.
Men were not prevented from buying a ticket or entering the festival grounds but male members of artists' entourages and the likes of technicians and managers were reportedly restricted to a so-called 'man-pen' in a backstage area.
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Surfinn

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Kirblar said:
I'm saying that predatory individuals aren't restricted to cis men and thus excluding them (while reducing the pool proportionally because yes, they're overrepresented in that group) doesn't solve that problem to the point anyone can be "free of fear." I'm not accusing them of saying all cis men are predators.
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Obviously the intent is to greatly reduce that fear. They're not saying literally only men can be sexual predators/assaulters or that everyone is going to have a zero percent chance of being assaulted/threatened.

Don't be thick.
 
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Kyuuji

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Castile said:
Yeah, it was like that the first time. What I think cause the controversy was the mistreatment of male band members.
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Why are you embellishing things? It's in the OP what the issue was:
"We were condemned over the communication about the festival, not any actual discrimination in place," Knyckare explained.
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Mistreatment?
But a "manpen", as they themselves jokingly call it, will be in the festival area.

- Our backstage is downright scary. There are many artists who have men in their company and then we have to have somewhere where they can hang out while they play. We will have special bands for the cis men so that they have access to backstage, says Emma Knyckare.
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Taking one paragraph of an article and trying to frame it as the whole issue despite nothing saying anything to that effect. Then making up that the cis-men were mistreated.. 🤷‍♀️ what you doing lol?
 
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Kyuuji

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Jon_Sama said:
Yeah I feel like that might be taking it a step too far. Chances are you're on board with the concept of the festival if you'd perform there, so no need to treat them worse.
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They weren't treated worse though. It was a section for the festival for cis-men working or performing at the festival to chill out in that they themselves call the "manshage" and has music for itself.
But a "manpen", as they themselves jokingly call it, will be in the festival area.

- Our backstage is downright scary. There are many artists who have men in their company and then we have to have somewhere where they can hang out while they play. We will have special bands for the cis men so that they have access to backstage, says Emma Knyckare.
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Windrunner

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Judging by the wording where they specifically single out cis men, they permit trans men despite being "man-free" and they distinguish trans women from cis women.

This festival's ethos is awful. I am bored of supposed women's spaces making exceptions for trans men under awful transphobic pretexts, usually regarding socialisation. If you're going to exclude men, exclude them all: trans men are men, making them distinct from cis men is transphobic. I don't want any men in women's spaces, cis or trans.
 

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Kyuuji said:
Like.. taking one paragraph of an article and trying to frame it as being the whole issue despite nothing saying anything to that effect, and then making up that the cis-men were mistreated 🤷‍♀️ what you doing
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Oh, okay. My bad for spreading bad information, it was just something that stuck to me as weird all these years. Good to know it was just bad communication and nothing more.
 
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Kyuuji

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Windrunner said:
Judging by the wording where they specifically single out cis men, they permit trans men despite being "man-free" and they distinguish trans women from cis women.

This festival's ethos is awful. I am bored of supposed women's spaces making exceptions for trans men under awful transphobic pretexts, usually regarding socialisation. If you're going to exclude men, exclude them all: trans men are men, making them distinct from cis men is transphobic. I don't want any men in women's spaces, cis or trans.
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It's not positioned as just a space for women though, it's a space aimed at people that aren't cis-men. I agree the wording is poor, interested to know if it is the same in Swedish.
 
Volimar

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Windrunner said:
Judging by the wording where they specifically single out cis men, they permit trans men despite being "man-free" and they distinguish trans women from cis women.

This festival's ethos is awful. I am bored of supposed women's spaces making exceptions for trans men under awful transphobic pretexts, usually regarding socialisation. If you're going to exclude men, exclude them all: trans men are men, making them distinct from cis men is transphobic. I don't want any men in women's spaces, cis or trans.
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Not billed as a space for women.

A five-point mission statement is listed on the festival's website.


These include creating a space "where non-cis men can feel safe" and promoting "artists who are not cis-men."
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The "man-free" and some of the other messaging is pretty all over the place though. Some of it reads like people trying to do the right thing but getting tripped up in the execution.
 
Gwarm

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Mona said:
i think its fine for the festival to do it, but i still think its discrimination

fuck me i guess
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I mean, it is very obviously discrimination but...

Do I actually care? No. Do I feel offended? No. Do I think it is awesome that people can have their own event and feel safe? Yep.

The men complaining are probably just the same assholes who want to ruin everything to stick it to people who aren't them.
 
Windrunner

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Kyuuji said:
It's not positioned as just a space for women though, it's a space aimed at people that aren't cis-men. I agree the wording is poor, interested to know if it is the same in Swedish.
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Volimar said:
Not billed as a space for women.

The "man-free" and some of the other messaging is pretty all over the place though. Some of it reads like people trying to do the right thing but getting tripped up in the execution.
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This still positions trans men as being distinct from cis men and given the "men-free" stuff I am not giving the festival organisers the benefit of the doubt. Trans men are men and I bet if you probed for why the distinction is being made here from cis men, it would be indistinguishable from TERF rhetoric, regardless of the good intentions.
 

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Are they allowing cisqueer men or have they also been given the blanket ban?

Kaguya said:
Are cis women generally less bigoted toward minorities than cis men?
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Nope. If anything white woman have more privilege than people of colours and especially over women of colours and LGTB+ of colours.

But I don't really think this is really relevant to the topic in hand.
 
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Kyuuji

Kyuuji

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Windrunner said:
This still positions trans men as being distinct from cis men and given the "men-free" stuff I am not giving the festival organisers the benefit of the doubt. Trans men are men and I bet if you probed for why the distinction is being made here from cis men, it would be indistinguishable from TERF rhetoric, regardless of the good intentions.
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That's a reasonable concern and doubt, it would certainly suck and I can see what you're saying. Appreciate you posting it. Their communications are definitely mixed around it all from what I've read around their site since seeing the article and posting. It's raised in the FAQ, which isn't anything against what you say, being a bit of content on a webpage, but just so you know their official response on the why.
Why are you welcoming trans men?
Trans men often have extensive experience of being harassed and faced with violence, hate and threats from people who also treat women the same way. As a group, trans men are extremely exposed and vulnerable. Statement Festival is a free zone from having to be constantly scared, and therefore we also welcome trans men.
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What if I am equally scared of trans men as I am of cis-men?
Then Statement Festival is not a free zone for me. It is of course very sad if you would still feel unsafe, however for us organising Statement Festival it is important to include trans men at our festival, because they are a group that is very exposed to violence, hate and threats based on prevailing norms in our society.
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