“There are no constitutional rights in substance without freedom to transact.”

[nujabeans]

I know ResetEra and gamers in general are quite against cryptocurrency, claiming it's the biggest Ponzi Scheme out there, only criminals use it, money laundering, and all of a sudden are very concerned about energy consumption (while not saying anything about the energy consumption of other things they partake in, meat consumption for one)

But this thread on Twitter is a good one on why many people are for a more decentralized financial system. He argues that without the right to transact, you also effectively give away your right to practice your constitutional rights.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

...and all of a sudden are very concerned about energy consumption (while not saying anything about the energy consumption of other things they partake in, meat consumption for one)

Click to shrink...

"You're against cryptocurrency yet continue to eat meat" is certainly a take.

 

[BrokenIcarus]

"The exercise of rights costs money" Fucking please, this is why crypto is such bullshit, it's commoditizing literally every part of your life jfc.

 

[Dyle]

They can still make transactions, just not those specific transactions using those specific restricted methods. If they want to send and receive money they just have to set up alternate methods. You don't, and very clearly shouldn't, have an inherent, immutable right to all forms of financial transactions.

 

[Lumination]

You do not need money to exercise your rights. You need money to amplify your reach. This is fundamentally different.

 

[Pirateluigi]

His entire premise is based on the false idea that cash is going to cease to be a viable form of currency in the near future. It's not.

Edited to add: Even if he was right, it doesn't change the fact that crypto as it currently exists IS a ponzi scheme and is environmentally disastrous. Fix those aspects and we can begin talking about the value of decentralized currency.

 

[L Thammy]

My man, you're not going to get me to trust anyone with an NFT avatar.

The first line on this kid's Twitter profile is a link to Opensea.

 

[Kernel]

That sounds like a Citizens United take.

Funding insurrection isn't a constitutional right.

 

[Mr. President]

This guy must know his stuff, I mean look at all those nifty NFTs he owns.

 

[Deleted member 4614]

*whispers* Cryptocurrency isn't decentralized in practice. A small minority own the vast majority of Bitcoin and need rubes to cash out of their pump and dump scheme

It also doesn't encourage transactions. Vast majority of transactions are speculating on the price of the currency rather than buying e.g. pizza.

Also I don't think you have the right to e.g. launder money from an illegal transaction 👍 but that, ransom, and speculation are the main uses of crypocurrency

 

[Zoph]

I know ResetEra and gamers in general are quite against cryptocurrency, claiming it's the biggest Ponzi Scheme out there, only criminals use it, money laundering, and all of a sudden are very concerned about energy consumption (while not saying anything about the energy consumption of other things they partake in, meat consumption for one)

Click to shrink...

I can't roll my eyes any fucking harder.

 

[Lump]

This is an excellent example of a crypto user getting achingly close to the point and then suddenly turning around to promote a solution that is far worse and exasperates wealth disparity to an even greater extent. Which might be the point - the crypto user just wants to do anything they can get get onto the 'exploiting' side instead of the 'exploiter' side before the disparity widens further.

 

[Deleted member 4614]

(while not saying anything about the energy consumption of other things they partake in, meat consumption for one)]

Click to shrink...

Nice so you're advocating for a ban on meat consumption and crypto. Sounds good to me. Maybe the planet does have a shot

 

[Capra]

So this isn't the same guy but the fact that this one's avatar is literally like, one less pixel away from being the same thing is fucking hilarious:

I actually cannot tell anymore whether this secretly is some form of satire. I feel like I'm going nuts

 

[trashbandit]

Love to be told energy spent on funny money is the same as energy spent on actual sustenance(which is a resource drain people are worried about, but of course, how else would we get a bunch of defensive snark in the OP).

DeFi is literally the definition of a niche need. Most people benefit from and prefer the safety guarantees of centralized platforms. I can anonymously transfer money across the globe, just so long as I stop caring about having my money insured through the FDIC.

 

[headfallsoff]

Cryptocurrency doesn't solve any of these problems, doesn't decentralize power at all and in fact does this opposite. This is a crypto guy poorly describing a bunch of bad things that capitalism does with big words and then moronically suggesting that the answer is more unrestrained capitalism.

 

[Cruxist]

This is an excellent example of a crypto user getting achingly close to the point and then suddenly turning around to promote a solution that is far worse and exasperates wealth disparity to an even greater extent. Which might be the point - the crypto user just wants to do anything they can get get onto the 'exploiting' side instead of the 'exploiter' side before the disparity widens further.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I kept reading the thread waiting for the realization, but it never came. Glad I read it all, at least.

 

[BuckRogers]

I know ResetEra and gamers in general are quite against cryptocurrency, claiming it's the biggest Ponzi Scheme out there, only criminals use it, money laundering, and all of a sudden are very concerned about energy consumption (while not saying anything about the energy consumption of other things they partake in, meat consumption for one)

But this thread on Twitter is a good one on why many people are for a more decentralized financial system. He argues that without the right to transact, you also effectively give away your right to practice your constitutional rights.

Click to shrink...

Being wary of the power of a centralized finance system and thinking that cryptocurrency is the solution to that system are two different things. There are a number of issues (transactional costs, for one) that prevent almost all current cryptocurrencies from being viable as a replacement for something like cash. To get around these, many of these currencies essentially rely on centralized services that bundle up transactions. This is still centralization, it's just a different set of corporations.

If you could magically solve those problems, then you'd just have to contend with the intrinsic deflationary nature of the currency being a terrible thing if you want to use it for transactions, the massive and terrible environmental cost, and a number of other issues.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

and all of a sudden are very concerned about energy consumption (while not saying anything about the energy consumption of other things they partake in, meat consumption for one)

Click to shrink...

 

[Lobster Roll]

I have no interest whatsoever in reading crypto psychobabble on Twitter from somebody who has an NFT as an avatar. The moment I see that, I realize that they have nothing of value to bring to the conversation.

 

[EntelechyFuff]

So this isn't the same guy but the fact that this one's avatar is literally like, one less pixel away from being the same thing is fucking hilarious:

I'm actually not sure whether this is some kind of satire.

Click to shrink...

His values and beliefs: "I'm gonna hack the FBI"

 

[Bleu]

If you say this thread is a good demonstration of why some want a decentralized system then i assume your point is that some are for such a system because they are complete morons ? cause that guy sure is (unless it's satire, maybe ? i can't even tell anymore).
What a load of nonsense.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

• Your introductory paragraph is idiotic and embarrassing.
• In concept, what he is saying is factually correct. If the means to transact is entirely institutionalized through omniscient digital bureaus with absolute control, then the right to transact is at the mercy of those holders and vulnerable to their whims, wills, and politics. In this sense I do agree that freedom of expression and the ability to transact are linked. I think the political theory presented here is a legitimate one, even if its nuances are arguable.
• Cryptocurrency does not solve or address any of these problems literally at all and the myth that it might someday in an evolved form is uncompelling when the status quo of cryptocurrency is untenable and dysfunctional. Every problem and threat described in the Twitter thread is exacerbated by the status quo of cryptocurrency. All of these problems and all of these threats become much worse and far greater to exploit.
• It is really nauseating to see lizard-brained tech people acknowledge pervasive social and political issues then propose self-serving systems that cannot and will never make any of those issues better for anyone except themselves. It makes my skin crawl.

 

[julia crawford]

Cryptocurrency doesn't solve any of these problems, doesn't decentralize power at all and in fact does this opposite. This is a crypto guy poorly describing a bunch of bad things that capitalism does with big words and then moronically suggesting that the answer is more unrestrained capitalism.

Click to shrink...

Yep, this is my take.

 

[Hu3]

This has to be a troll thread because if not. Uuuff

 

[GringoSuave89]

Take so bad I'm going back to bed...

 

[etrain911]

This is some massive cope, the OP sounds so bitter. Just hold the L on this, I've been sucked into dumb schemes before too. It isn't a moral failing, you don't have to justify it to randos on a video game enthusiast forum.

 

[Volimar]

• Your introductory paragraph is idiotic and embarrassing.
• In concept, what he is saying is factually correct. If the means to transact is entirely institutionalized through omniscient digital bureaus with absolute control, then the right to transact is at the mercy of those holders and vulnerable to their whims, wills, and politics. In this sense I do agree that freedom of expression and the ability to transact are linked. I think the political theory presented here is a legitimate one, even if its nuances are arguable.
• Cryptocurrency does not solve or address any of these problems literally at all and the myth that it might someday in an evolved form is uncompelling when the status quo of cryptocurrency is untenable and dysfunctional. Every problem and threat described in the Twitter thread is exacerbated by the status quo of cryptocurrency. All of these problems and all of these threats become much worse and far greater to exploit.
• It is really nauseating to see lizard-brained tech people acknowledge pervasive social and political issues then propose self-serving systems that cannot and will never make any of those issues better for anyone except themselves. It makes my skin crawl.

Click to shrink...

Agreed

 

[deadman322]

not American so crypto wouldn't suddenly save my non-existant constitutional rights.


also i dont eat meat or drive a car so i do have the right to shit on crypto.

 

[Lunatious]

You know what, I usually stay out of these, but this time I'll bite.

For one, they're not actually talking about rights. For example, you don't need a website to exercise freedom of speech. This is a common (and sometimes deliberate) mistake made by grifters and propaganda. The same applies to freedom of assembly and the others listed.

More money does buy you more influence, power, ability to travel, etc. But these are all symptoms of financial inequality and capitalism. Money in crypto is still concentrated on a small % of users, most of whom had capital to invest into the space beforehand. And the concept of decentralization in crypto is a lie. If you switch all your savings from US dollars to say, Ethereum, all you're doing is centralizing it on Vitalik Buterin's platform instead of America's. Yeah, sure, large centralized banks suck. You know how you fix that? Regulation. You know what space is majorly against any kind of regulation? Crypto.

So the thread fails at identifying the problems it claims it does, fails at proposing solutions to said problems, and fails to address the numerous, already existing problems with crypto. It's still full of scams. It's still bad for the environment. It's still used for money laundering. It's still full of far right nutjobs. And it was still written by someone who spent who knows how much money on an MSPaint jpeg.

 

[Joe]

• Your introductory paragraph is idiotic and embarrassing.
• In concept, what he is saying is factually correct. If the means to transact is entirely institutionalized through omniscient digital bureaus with absolute control, then the right to transact is at the mercy of those holders and vulnerable to their whims, wills, and politics. In this sense I do agree that freedom of expression and the ability to transact are linked. I think the political theory presented here is a legitimate one, even if its nuances are arguable.
• Cryptocurrency does not solve or address any of these problems literally at all and the myth that it might someday in an evolved form is uncompelling when the status quo of cryptocurrency is untenable and dysfunctional. Every problem and threat described in the Twitter thread is exacerbated by the status quo of cryptocurrency. All of these problems and all of these threats become much worse and far greater to exploit.
• It is really nauseating to see lizard-brained tech people acknowledge pervasive social and political issues then propose self-serving systems that cannot and will never make any of those issues better for anyone except themselves. It makes my skin crawl.

Click to shrink...

well said

 

[KingM]

Would you be unable to transact if people just don't take crypto. Or you don't use one they take. Which would require you to use one of the more popular ones that iirc are largely owned by a handful of groups and people. It doesn't seem to different than cash or gold to be honest just with more hoops. Which isn't necessarily bad, I just don't buy the idea that'll be something to support rights just because I can pay for something with my LiteCoins instead of physical bills or debit.

 

[excelsiorlef]

Did the OP really start a pro crypto thread based on a guy having a Eureka moment about how we need crypto because then the occupation of Ottawa could still have its funding

 

[Rover]

Libertarians - "The worst person you know sort of understands the issues but made a bad point anyway"

 

[PBalfredo]

and all of a sudden are very concerned about energy consumption (while not saying anything about the energy consumption of other things they partake in, meat consumption for one)

Click to shrink...

"How can you all say you're against this general trend when you can't even speak out against this specific instance?"

"Okay, let's talk about how this specific instance is a problem.

"How can you single out this specific instance when the rest of this general trend goes unaddressed?! Such rank hypocrisy!"

 

[∀∃:ETURNA]

lmao... immediate thread backfiring!

 

[Gernau Morat Gurgeh]

lol

 

[Hollywood Duo]

We need much more regulation not none. That's all I have to say.

 

[Pirateluigi]

Did the OP really start a pro crypto thread based on a guy having a Eureka moment about how we need crypto because then the occupation of Ottawa could still have its funding

Click to shrink...

But the tweet doesn't want anyone to think he endorses the Ottowa situation. In fact, he pointedly did not research it at all! Totally clears the tweet.

 

[808s & Villainy]

This is an excellent example of a crypto user getting achingly close to the point and then suddenly turning around to promote a solution that is far worse and exasperates wealth disparity to an even greater extent. Which might be the point - the crypto user just wants to do anything they can get get onto the 'exploiting' side instead of the 'exploiter' side before the disparity widens further.

Click to shrink...

This is my issue with crypto. I don't think the fundamental idea behind it is malicious, it's just the people who keep pushing it veer into/are squarely in libertarian shit that completely loses me

 

[Watchtower]

But the tweet doesn't want anyone to think he endorses the Ottowa situation. In fact, he pointedly did not research it at all! Totally clears the tweet.

Click to shrink...

I'm not able to get through the entire thread because Twitter fucking sucks but let me guess: his point is something along the lines of "I dunno what's going on but protests are protests and you can't stop protests even if you disagree with them". That seems absolutely in his wheelhouse given all the "I love democracy" talk.

 

[Biske]

*whispers* Cryptocurrency isn't decentralized in practice. A small minority own the vast majority of Bitcoin and need rubes to cash out of their pump and dump scheme

It also doesn't encourage transactions. Vast majority of transactions are speculating on the price of the currency rather than buying e.g. pizza.

Also I don't think you have the right to e.g. launder money from an illegal transaction 👍 but that, ransom, and speculation are the main uses of crypocurrency

Click to shrink...

Seriously. I've never seen any proof or use of crypto being decentralized. It's centralized as fuck.

 

[Poppy]

shut the fuck up op

 

[take_marsh]

That opening paragraph is a fart.

This should be in every crypto thread:

Line Goes Up – The Problem With NFTs

If someone pitches you on a "great" Web3 project, ask them if it requires buying or selling crypto to do what they say it does.Sources and Further Readinghtt...

www.youtube.com

 

[Serpens007]

We're not having threads like this. If you want to discuss cryptocurrencies, there's an OT for that.

1. Absolutely no crypto/NFT promotion outside of the Cryptocurrency OT. If you want to go talk about your favorite cryptocurrency and get advice or whatever, feel free to do so in there. It will not be tolerated outside of that thread. This includes derailing a thread by condescendingly telling other users "Oh, well I'm just trying to inform you, because you don't have experience in this," "well, I guess you're NGMI," or essentially handwaving the issues with NFTs and Crypto.

Click to shrink...