I can't believe this kind of stuff is occurring so frequently. How hard is it to be a decent human being and respect each other.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/kotaku...ver-past-sexist-racist-comment-1847469006/amp
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Apex Lead Designer Fired For Sexist and Racist Comments Dating Back to 2007
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I can't believe this kind of stuff is occurring so frequently. How hard is it to be a decent human being and respect each other.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/kotaku...ver-past-sexist-racist-comment-1847469006/amp
Awful stuff. I will say his apology rings a bit more sincere than some PR talk, but again, I don't know anything about him and the dude was 27 when he wrote them.
I do feel like there's some ownership of what he did in this. Still, no one should be required to keep him on and I have no idea what he's done since to show any change or not.
Ultimately though , at 27, what was this guy thinking? He's lucky he didn't get busted earlier.
Edit: I scanned through his Twitter and it does seem like he's made sincere efforts to be an advocate for change. I'm torn on this one because those comments are awful and fuck that guy who said them. On the other hand, he owned up to it, it was 14 years ago, and he seems to be making very different choices now. Personally, I find this one kind of sad, as I'd like to think there is a path for people to change even if they were awful in the past.
I do feel like there's some ownership of what he did in this. Still, no one should be required to keep him on and I have no idea what he's done since to show any change or not.
Ultimately though , at 27, what was this guy thinking? He's lucky he didn't get busted earlier.
Edit: I scanned through his Twitter and it does seem like he's made sincere efforts to be an advocate for change. I'm torn on this one because those comments are awful and fuck that guy who said them. On the other hand, he owned up to it, it was 14 years ago, and he seems to be making very different choices now. Personally, I find this one kind of sad, as I'd like to think there is a path for people to change even if they were awful in the past.
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I think you need to give people a second chance when it's stuff from over a decade ago. And I don't buy "Well if what he had said wasn't absolutely fucked up." Doesn't matter, people can change. I was a horrible fucking person ~6 years ago who used to say similar things before I got away from certain family members filling my head with bullshit and got away from home/got online and started seeing different perspectives, specifically from those whose voices had historically been marginalized and were given power thanks to the internet. Helped I had and still have friends whose upbringing taught them differently so they were able to help me stop being terrible. People need a second chance.
so part of this is he frequently bristled with a lot of the community and a bunch of pro players regarding his (admittedly in my opinion poor) balance decisions... because gamers. but his responses were so awful, arrogant, and patronizing im amazed they didnt tell him to shut up on twitter and reddit months ago. so of course people went around looking for what they could find. I don't buy the progressivism excuse to be honest. not with all the other devs on apex (and the game itself) saying so much of the same stuff
but yeah that stuff he said (at age 27!) is awful
but yeah that stuff he said (at age 27!) is awful
This. Some people it seems, dug these up, and tried to ruin him because of his changed behavior and stances. I don't know if this settles well with me. Has he kept those stances he used to have a secret? Did he deflect? Did he sincerely apologies? Does he have a track record of doing better? It seems so.
I kinda feel like this one is heartbreaking. He needs a good beating for all the shit he said at 27, but man, I want to celebrate someone who makes intentional steps to change too.
Yeah it's very easy to shit on people like this unless you've been there and been able to move away from the toxic environment you were in. Humans are social sponges. It's very very easy to look from the outside up on your high horse and say things that are generally pretty obvious.
I never was this way, at all, but looking back I do realize I started to go down a really bad path. I just got very lucky with some people that directed me towards more healthy ways of understanding my struggles and myself, and see how my hyperconservative background deeply was hurting me and others.
People just have no understanding or empathy or humility for other people like this. It's so easy if you haven't been there, to strut around and talk about how easy it is to just, not be that way.
And to be clear, I'm not a fan of this guy, but the way he talks about it rings like someone who has changed, to me, at least in this specific regard.
Knowing how detached and superior a lot of people on this forum like to be, I expect this thread to be filled with cheap, easy moral point scoring. And plenty of "no excuses, he was 27," missing the point entirely.
Age has nothing to do with maturity. And change is never impossible. This weird arbitrary "well he had this long before he suddenly is no longer to be better. Forever condemned." Easy, shitty, proud, and immature shit to say.
I'd honestly rather we didn't have threads like this.
I understand if this stuff was at 17 but at 27? That's too much. I'm glad the apology is genuine, but there's kinda no redemption from this.
I am going to guess there is probably more to the story than is being said publicly. The posts are probably just one part of the story.
People never stop growing and learning. Not saying this guy is a changed guy, but you don't just stop developing and changing as a human. You can always learn new things that can change your entire perspective on life and how you see it and contribute to the world and 14 years is a long time for someone to change.
Hmm, situation strikes me as somewhat similar to the James Gunn debacle, with disgruntled "Gamers" going through his digital dumpster in order to find stuff to hurt him with. He also seems pretty apologetic about what a shit person he used to be. Then again, he was freaking 27 when he made those comments, so it's not like he was some dumb kid.
I'll just hope he's at least matured since then.
Yeah, that's where I stand as well. I'd definitely say something like "yeah, fuck that guy" if he said that stuff four or five years ago, but fourteen years is a lot of time. I had some pretty shitty views fourteen years ago; some sexism, quite a bit of homophobia and transphobia. I'm very ashamed of the person I was back then, but life and friends educated me on these subjects and now my views are beyond opposite what they were. I hope time has allowed that guy to change as well, and if he didn't, please ignore this whole post.
Really vile stuff but seems like he's changed over the 14 years. Him being 27 at the time makes it worse, but it's not like people are suddenly incapable of learning & rehabilitating after a certain age.
He has numerous posts calling out Blizzard for their behavior, trying to elevate other voices, etc. I don't know much about this guy, but he seems to be trying.
And yah, I'm in the same boat. I never said anything like he did, but I grew up in a very toxic, evangelical, conservative environment. I didn't know anything different until I got to college. It took some very kind people and a lot of patience for me to realize that there was a different way of understanding the world. There were words and concepts that I had been lied to about my whole life. I truly believe I'd still be thinking that way if it wasn't for some amazing people in my life that were willing to challenge me and still be my friend. I still thank them regularly for what they did.
I don't think we should sob over people who cry crocodile tears when they got caught and offer insincere apologies. I DO however think there should be paths for people to change and become a different person. What that line is and what it requires? I'm not sure. And of course, no one is required to accept it, ever.
Way too many people have themselves never fundamentally changed, so they physically cannot comprehend it in others. It's easier for others to be a cartoon. Filed away under "bad person."
I generally agree with you.... if this stuff was written when he was an edgelord teen.
But the thing is the dude was 27 when he wrote this vile shit. That's about same age I was when I had my first kid. So he can miss me with this "I'm sad about the things I wrote when I was young" BS.
He was a grown-ass man and had been for many years.
User Banned (2 Weeks): Tone-policing by invoking inappropriate comparisons to prison (as minorities are the ones disproportionately affected by the prison system)
We could pretty much cancel anyone if we look far enough back. People do change and learn from past mistakes...
Isnt that what people want from prisons? Criminals to reform? Those ppl actually did some serious shit.....
Isnt that what people want from prisons? Criminals to reform? Those ppl actually did some serious shit.....
Few things:
- Shit has been 14 years ago. Which is a long time to change
- But then again, 14 years ago he was 27 and should have known better
- And on the other hand, do we know if he truly changed
I have a problem with people firing for shit they said/did a long time ago, that occured outside of your job. It is tacky and should be the job of the company
to dig up before hiring that person. But we know how the gaming industry doesn't look out after its workers, he was Twenty-fucking-seven at that time and should have known better. Maybe they should have asked collegues how he is/acts these days or something?
P.S.: Here a comment from Senior game designer Alexa Kim at Respawn
- Shit has been 14 years ago. Which is a long time to change
- But then again, 14 years ago he was 27 and should have known better
- And on the other hand, do we know if he truly changed
I have a problem with people firing for shit they said/did a long time ago, that occured outside of your job. It is tacky and should be the job of the company
to dig up before hiring that person. But we know how the gaming industry doesn't look out after its workers, he was Twenty-fucking-seven at that time and should have known better. Maybe they should have asked collegues how he is/acts these days or something?
P.S.: Here a comment from Senior game designer Alexa Kim at Respawn
https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/7/17827796/riot-games-employee-depart-women-only-pax-west-event
This guy left his job at Riot a few years over feeling that it was important for women/non-binary only events to be present at PAX. If these blog posts were recently I'd maybe feel a different way, but it seems pretty clear to me that he did in fact do some growing over the past *Checks notes* 14 years.
This guy left his job at Riot a few years over feeling that it was important for women/non-binary only events to be present at PAX. If these blog posts were recently I'd maybe feel a different way, but it seems pretty clear to me that he did in fact do some growing over the past *Checks notes* 14 years.
reads like a James Gunn situation where a person has grown and realized his wrongdoings and now has a moment to reflect on his past actions
he seemingly owns up to his mistakes and is remorseful?
I mean he can still be a POS but I am feel like his response feels genuine enough
he seemingly owns up to his mistakes and is remorseful?
I mean he can still be a POS but I am feel like his response feels genuine enough
this seems worth sign-posting. the shit that was dug up is really ugly but he definitely put his money where his mouth was on being a better person later in life.
People have experience that change them all throughout life. Some people have a moment far later that clicks and they realize they've been wrong the entire time. While I think him being that age factors into his awareness of what he said, I don't think it's an automatic point of no return.
To be fair, there is such a thing as fake allies who are very vocal despite the skeletons they still keep polished and cleaned in the closet. But yes, based on how the guy talks, and the way he explains his viewpoint, it sounds like how I have heard people I know to seriously make an effort to change, also talk.
Yup. Someone who hasn't had an experience like that has no concept of what it's like. It's humbling, but in a good way. I almost think never having to face being fundamentally wrong is bad. Because the experience of doing that myself was really important in helping me develop a deep sense of empathy and compassion for other people. Humans are just more complicated than that.
And that is the shitty thing. There will never, ever be an easy answer. You have to take each situation on its own.
What he said is vile. However, people can and do change. It seems that these postings were dug up due to the fact people who play Apex Legends do not like him as a balancer.
People who are saying good riddance, you do know this was akin to what happened to James Gunn right? This happened so many years ago and it is clear the man changed.
People who are saying good riddance, you do know this was akin to what happened to James Gunn right? This happened so many years ago and it is clear the man changed.
27 and not being in some kind of dire life situation is pretty telling. It was a long time ago in terms of how someone behaves on their job, but its also hard to imagine they have fully changed in that case. It seems like he was being a voice for good recently, but we don't know him personally so not really worth guessing on who this person really is.
Ok. Yah. I'm officially in the "27 year old him needed a beating, but he's made changes." boat.
This idea that once someone reaches 21 years old they suddenly cannot have radical shifts in who they are is so myopic and wrong. I've personally met older people who changed more radically. I don't know where this arbitrary idea of When Growth is Possible comes from.
Kind of a difficult situation. He's obviously changed and seems sincere now, but was so public with his bigotted statements.
It is so hard to escape that shit though. I never though of women or black people like that, but it took me until 24 to shed the dogma shoved down my throat all of my upbringing by my conservative mother and libertarian father. Luckily I never was public with my anti gov thoughts and shit like that, but I understand how embarassing and awful that kind of thing feels in retrospect.
Im all for second chances, but sometimes reputation is unsalvageable. Attacking women and black people "for the lulz" is borderline inexcusable, even if it was 15 years ago and he is so apologetic, so i can kind of understand both sides here.
It is so hard to escape that shit though. I never though of women or black people like that, but it took me until 24 to shed the dogma shoved down my throat all of my upbringing by my conservative mother and libertarian father. Luckily I never was public with my anti gov thoughts and shit like that, but I understand how embarassing and awful that kind of thing feels in retrospect.
Im all for second chances, but sometimes reputation is unsalvageable. Attacking women and black people "for the lulz" is borderline inexcusable, even if it was 15 years ago and he is so apologetic, so i can kind of understand both sides here.
Can grown men not change? Can grown men not learn from their mistakes? Are people meant to be exactly the same for the rest of their life with absolutely zero chance of change?
People grow and change at all stages in life. Being 27 and a "grown ass man" doesn't mean he wasn't capable of learning shit like that is wrong. He has clearly made efforts to fix himself as a person in the 14 years.
I grew up in a backwards small town in Alabama. I was told that blacks were evil, and gay people were abominations. And the N word and F word were common uses. Now here I am, about to be 30 and openly gay and went on a date with a black man last week. And this change did not happen to me and make me be more open with myself till I left home and got away from my toxic family in my early 20s. And that same family is some how come around to be accepting of me.
People change all the time. Stop being so harsh on people and let people have the chance to grow and develop, regardless of what age they are.
That's the idea, in theory.
In practice? Well...
Fwiw, I agree with your sentiments and with others in this thread saying that it's obvious this person had grown and learned in the more than 14 years since the comments were made. We don't stop growing and learning the moment we reach some arbitrary age.
Some people just want to go for the jugular no matter what though.
My 60 year old mother in law has been on a three year journey from being a fundamentalist Christian, to divorcing her oppressive husband, leaving her church, and becoming a full on liberal who speaks out for BIPOC voices. She talks about how she felt so oppressed but that was the only world she ever knew and it just slowly began to crack the last few years.
People change all the time.
James Gunn was like 40 when he was making very abhorrent jokes about kids that really crossed the line. It's never too late to change and what matters is that person is genuine when it comes to admitting fault and is actively trying to make amends. So far it seems this guy has done both. Once again, if new info comes to light he's still a terrible person then fair enough but in a case like this I feel it's beneficial to give them a second chance and see what happens.
Well to be clear, not just as a balancer, but he was pretty abrasive as well. It's one thing to balance something poorly. It's another to be kind of a jerk about it. So a lot of people took that personally as you'd expect immature, petty gamers to do. Unfortunately, as you can expect, that just riled up a bunch of losers to try and weaponize his past to get rid of him. The guy wasn't an angel in the Apex situation, but this whole thing was also uncalled for and shitty.
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