Can you provide some real examples of cultural appropriation?

[iswasdoes]

I'm an old white dude and my instinct is: this isn't actually a thing

but I'm very willing to learn so looking for some examples

thread is prompted by Sean Paul being blasted on TikTok for culturally appropriating dancehall and being largely defended by Jamaicans

 

[skullmuffins]

by "real" do you mean examples where people of the culture being appropriated from are upset about it, and it's not just (typically) white folks or people not from that culture getting offended on someone else's behalf? it is a real thing but sometimes people on social media get a little goofy. don't dismiss the entire concept because some folks overreach.

 

[Cipherr]

 

[RobitFarmer]

Wow, we really are heading to NeoGaf real quick.

Edit: to clarify, If you are old and know how to use a message board but can't figure out how to Google "examples of cultural appropriation" I don't know what anyone here can do to stop you from being racist.

 

[Dali]

I thought Sean Paul was Jamaican. I went to Google to confirm and wiki says he is. What was the accusation of appropriation relating to Sean Paul, a Jamaican, appropriating dance hall, a Jamaican music genre?

 

[nsilvias]

Jesy Nelson Accused of Blackfishing in New 'Boyz' Music Video

https://www.newsweek.com/jesy-nelson-accused-blackfishing-new-boyz-music-video-1636980 https://youtu.be/u884fEIPY3g From the video: And a previous comparison.

www.resetera.com

 

[Vulcano's Assistant]

Elvis Presley is usually the most common example.

 

[Princess Viola]

Does Non-Native Americans wearing Native American war bonnets count or is that just people being pieces of shit and thinking these cultures are just costumes? (Not like it makes much a difference tbh)

 

[Z-Beat]

This is the most straightforward example I can give you

A designer who put white models in African-print dresses is being accused of cultural appropriation

People are accusing Stella McCartney of using a traditional African print without acknowledging its origins in a Paris Fashion Week runway show.

www.insider.com

Literally appropriating something for your own use with no care as to where it came from. You'll find many more examples if you look into the early music industry and how many black artists were ripped off by having white people steal their music and then pass it off as theirs.

It's "You made this? I made this" for race, and the idea that that's not a thing is the most naive thing I've heard today, unless you're speaking as a hypothetical old white guy who doesn't think this is a thing

 

[WhateverItTakes]

I think the most egregious and obvious examples for me are when white people start restaurants or other business that take directly from another culture without synthesis, with no authentic links, signal boosting, or 'giving back'. I don't have any to hand but I'm pretty sure you could find a couple with a search.

 

[nsilvias]

sean paul is white? holy shit.
edit: idk, im confused. im getting conflicting reports when i google. this reads like he is black/jamaican based on his family history but some people are excluding him for reasons?

edit2: are these tiktokkers white by any chance op? this just feels like white people not understanding being mixed race.

 

[Platy]

It's "You made this? I made this" for race, and the idea that that's not a thing is the most naive thing I've heard today

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and it gets specially bad because it is "when black people do it, they get hate for it, but when white people copy, they are praised"

 

[anexanhume]

Your "instinct" is a manifestation of your privilege. As neither a racial or ethnic minority, this has never affected you. So, people complaining about it must be acting in bad faith, right?

 

[Z-Beat]

and it gets specially bad because it is "when black people do it, they get hate for it, but when white people copy, they are praised"

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Nah it's okay because Chuck Berry stole it from Marty McFly first, you see.

 

[Jag]

Wow, we really are heading to NeoGaf real quick.

Edit: to clarify, If you are old and know how to use a message board but can't figure out how to Google "examples of cultural appropriation" I don't know what anyone here can do to stop you from being racist.

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Maybe he doesn't want to read what Google says and wants to actually interact with people who truly understand the issues at play. Attacking him immediately is a pretty good way to make sure the conversation never gets started.

 

[Htown]

I'm an old white dude and my instinct is: this isn't actually a thing

but I'm very willing to learn so looking for some examples

thread is prompted by Sean Paul being blasted on TikTok for culturally appropriating dancehall and being largely defended by Jamaicans

Click to shrink...

so you're internet savvy enough to know what's happening on tiktok, but not enough to do a google search

sweet

 

[DPT120]

As someone who is into kpop - a lot of kpop idols appropriate black hairstyles/dress.

 

[Static]

Maybe a helpful instruction video will helpful.

 

[Mr. Snuffleupagus]

Elvis Presley is usually the most common example.

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Following up on this with:

 

[norealmx]

You can find A LOT of examples in r/shitamericanssay

 

[BLEEN]

Following up on this with:

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This is a classic.

 

[Tragicomedy]

OP, this doesn't come across as remotely genuine. Are you "just asking questions?"

 

[Ruisu]

As someone who is into kpop - a lot of kpop idols appropriate black hairstyles/dress.

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Is that cultural appropriation or is it just cultural mixing? It's not like the example of the article another person posted, where they were calling an african pattern print "british".

 

[Seesaw15]

Maybe he doesn't want to read what Google says and wants to actually interact with people who truly understand the issues at play. Attacking him immediately is a pretty good way to make sure the conversation never gets started.

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But Google isn't saying anything. When you search you'll get articles/essays/videos from people who truly understand the issues at play. He not searching for AI generated answers.

OP started of the thread on a weird note by including the loaded word "real" in the title. As if poc have just been complaining/ trying to gaslight people all this time. The content of the OP isn't much better either.

 

[naib]

Wow, we really are heading to NeoGaf real quick.

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This was my 1st thought. :lol

 

[PJV3]

I don't really understand how you couldn't think it's a real thing, the only thing i think you can say is that culture has always been a to and fro between people, so there's a lot more grey about some things and what is from where.

 

[Mr. Snuffleupagus]

This is a classic.

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Yesss

Also regarding OP; if you can't be arsed checking Google, I wonder if you can be arsed reading through the examples you'll be finding in this thread.

 

[purplemonkey111]

A White Restaurateur Advertised ‘Clean’ Chinese Food. Chinese-Americans Had Something to Say About It. (Published 2019)

The uproar over a Chinese-American restaurant that was opened in Manhattan by two white restaurateurs has become the latest front in the debate over cultural appropriation.

www.nytimes.com

A White Restaurateur Advertised 'Clean' Chinese Food. Chinese-Americans Had Something to Say About It.

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[skullmuffins]

Does Non-Native Americans wearing Native American war bonnets count or is that just people being pieces of shit and thinking these cultures are just costumes? (Not like it makes much a difference tbh)

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Don't know why it shouldn't count. White people wearing headdresses at music festivals... you're taking something that has deep significance in a native culture and wearing it because you think it's a cool fashion item to party in.

 

[RobitFarmer]

Maybe he doesn't want to read what Google says and wants to actually interact with people who truly understand the issues at play. Attacking him immediately is a pretty good way to make sure the conversation never gets started.

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This is equivalent to someone posting in 1990 asking for examples of segregation. Cultural appropriation has been codified and agreed upon for so long. There are documentaries, support groups, books, tv shows, entire websites dedicated to explaining this. This dude is sea lioning and it isn't subtle.

 

[El Bombastico]

Maybe he doesn't want to read what Google says and wants to actually interact with people who truly understand the issues at play. Attacking him immediately is a pretty good way to make sure the conversation never gets started.

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It's not our fucking jobs to educate white people.

 

[Juan]

It's "You made this? I made this" for race, and the idea that that's not a thing is the most naive thing I've heard today

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Isn't it actually the idea of "stealing"? I mean, no matter the context.

I think the most egregious and obvious examples for me are when white people start restaurants or other business that take directly from another culture without synthesis, with no authentic links, signal boosting, or 'giving back'.

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That's probably one very good example. Like, opening a restaurant from another culture you learned from and worked hard to understand and reproduce the habits, honoring the history being said food (or cultural related things), seems okay to me, that what I call cultural exchange and learning.

But if you're opening said restaurant for pure business purpose, without a passion for the culture you're taking from, then yes, I feel like it fall into this trap.

so you're internet savvy enough to know what's happening on tiktok, but not enough to do a google search

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So, people complaining about it must be acting in bad faith, right?

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Guys, like Jag said, maybe this user is interested foremost by having a discussion about this topic which seems a bit blurry for them, and at least, OP is doing a move into understanding the situation (hoping it is made in good faith of course)

If they are welcomed with passive-aggressive sentence, it's not going to help. We should assume for honorable intentions and share useful information to OP.

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As for me iswasdoes , Cultural appropriation is when you're producing stuff, ideas or concept, taken directly from another culture and you're trying to remove the culture being this produced thing to incorporate it into your own, without recognizing its birth place and history.

I think the example Z-Beat shared is a very appropriate one to have an overall picture of the process behind it.

 

[Ducarmel]

So the first time your hearing about cultural appropriation is a Jamaican man falsely being accused of cultural appropriation by a rando tiktokker?

I don't really want to dig up examples but its pretty much people who use elements ewhether its a small part or just wholesale use of another groups culture for personal gain and not for the advancement, promotion, celebration or preservation for the culture they are stealing from.

Once they have gained whatever they where after they proceed to drop the culture they stole from and move on.

 

[Z-Beat]

Isn't it actually the idea of "stealing"? I mean, no matter the context.

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That's what that meme means, pretty much, but yeah

 

[kiaaa]

I'm an old white dude and my instinct is: this isn't actually a thing

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this part makes this thread seem really insincere. also, as an old white dude, maybe you shouldn't just assume minorities/poc are lying about shit that affects them.

 

[iswasdoes]

Isn't it actually the idea of "stealing"? I mean, no matter the context.



That's probably one very good example. Like, opening a restaurant from another culture you learned from and worked hard to understand and reproduce the habits, honoring the history being said food (or cultural related things), seems okay to me, that what I call cultural exchange and learning.

But if you're opening said restaurant for pure business purpose, without a passion for the culture you're taking from, then yes, I feel like it fall into this trap.





Guys, like Jag said, maybe this user is interested foremost by having a discussion about this topic which seems a bit blurry for them, and at least, OP is doing a move into understanding the situation (hoping it is made in good faith of course)

If they are welcomed with passive-aggressive sentence, it's not going to help. We should assume for honorable intentions and share useful information to OP.

---------

As for me iswasdoes , Cultural appropriation is when you're producing stuff, ideas or concept, taken directly from another culture and you're trying to remove the culture being this produced thing to incorporate it into your own, without recognizing its birth place and history.

I think the example Z-Beat shared is a very appropriate one to have an overall picture of the process behind it.

Click to shrink...

Thanks for this, I'm genuinely interested in this topic and canvassing viewpoints.

so as an example - I like rap, I like to listen to it and I also like to write it. Am I stealing by doing so? I'm not like, shouting out the origins of rap when I do so. But o think it's kinda moved on…not sure

 

[Never the Lesser]

Guys, like Jag said, maybe this user is interested foremost by having a discussion about this topic which seems a bit blurry for them, and at least, OP is doing a move into understanding the situation (hoping it is made in good faith of course)

If they are welcomed with passive-aggressive sentence, it's not going to help. We should assume for honorable intentions and share useful information to OP.

Click to shrink...

When you start the conversation by saying "my first instinct is that this doesn't actually exist" and asking for "real" examples, you don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

 

[GameAddict411]

I'm an old white dude and my instinct is: this isn't actually a thing

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Dude you need to be more subtle if you are about to make a bad faith thread.

 

[TheCthultist]

I'm an old white dude and my instinct is: this isn't actually a thing

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…I mean, there's your problem right off the bat. Maybe look into the topic a bit instead of leading off with "I don't think it's actually a thing because my own bias tells me so."

Like… this was a fine concept for a topic. Why ruin it by leading off with that shit?

 

[Nigel Tufnel]

Zeppelin passed off Howlin Wolf and Willie Dixon's music as their own original work several times. And not in the 'inspired' by way, but in the 'lost lawsuits over it' kind of way.

 

[anexanhume]

When you start the conversation by saying "my first instinct is that this doesn't actually exist" and asking for "real" examples, you don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

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Yes, this has major dude at a folding table with sign that says prove me wrong vibes.

 

[Sanka]

Hold up Sean Paul is appropriating? Who is saying that? Cause he is white/light-skinned?

 

[DarkLegion]

wait Sean Paul is getting blasted for that? He grew up in Jamaica though. I'm from the Caribbean and thought it was normal. I can understand if it's Drake getting flak for his Jamaican accent though.

 

[Ducarmel]

wait Sean Paul is getting blasted for that? He grew up in Jamaica though. I'm from the Caribbean and thought it was normal. I can understand if it's Drake getting flak for his Jamaican accent though.

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its just one tiktok user not worth looking it up.

 

[Never the Lesser]

If someone told me a phrase that I never heard of, my first instinct would be to look it up, educate myself, and ask questions later.

But nah, you went straight to, "Nope, that's not a thing." 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩

 

[Royalan]

Surprising to me that Sean Paul is who started this conversation. Sure, he's "light-skinned"...but he's also Jamaican.

Sean Paul Ryan Francis Henriques was born in Kingston, Jamaica on 9 January 1973. His mother, Frances, is a painter.[SUP][7][/SUP][SUP][8][/SUP] His father, Garth, is of Portuguese Jewish descent. His paternal grandfather's Jewish family immigrated from Portugal to Jamaica in the 17th century; while his paternal grandmother was Afro-Jamaican.[SUP][9][/SUP] His mother is of English and Chinese Jamaican descent.

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It feels like a conversation on "colorism" is getting confused with "cultural appropriation." Which is...on brand for TikTok.

 

[Juan]

When you start the conversation by saying "my first instinct is that this doesn't actually exist" and asking for "real" examples, you don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.

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I understand your point of view, and maybe I'm just too candide, but I think some people happen to have good intentions but aren't always phrasing them in the best way possible, and that if you try to make a comprehensive move and explain the situation, then it would make for a better exchange and discussion.

And I feel like the message just above you by OP is sincere enough if someone is "old" and want to understand something that, from my point of view, really shined to a broad audience in the few past years, and could still be a "blurry" (putting it between big quote) concept for some.

Thanks for this, I'm genuinely interested in this topic and canvassing viewpoints.

so as an example - I like rap, I like to listen to it and I also like to write it. Am I stealing by doing so? I'm not like, shouting out the origins of rap when I do so. But o think it's kinda moved on…not sure

Click to shrink...

I don't know much about rap, so I'm not much of an help here.

My (very) limited view about this topic is that Rap is a combination of the beats (music) coming from the Funk and the poetry (writing). So, music and writing is for everyone if the vibe is echoing with you. Like any other musics, I think it's important to learn about the origins of something to get an understanding of it and able to play "by the rules" I would say (or break them actually).

I don't think it's wrong for anyone, no matter their skin color, to listen and produced any kind of music, but it should be done while acknowledging the history being it.

Other than that, I mean, go for it, creativity is for everyone, and I don't think you should limit yourself. If you like this kind of music, what it means, how it is used, you should be able to listen it, write about it and enjoy yourself, and as Rap as some roots from the African culture, maybe it will be a good way for you to know more about topics you never knew about before.

I think it's a good thing to want to know more and get familiar with something that isn't from your confort zone.

 

[RobitFarmer]

If someone told me a phrase that I never heard of, my first instinct would be to look it up, educate myself, and ask questions later.

But nah, you went straight to, "Nope, that's not a thing." 🚩🚩🚩🚩🚩

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100%, Even if this individual has been living underground and just found out about a term which pertains to the literal theft of cultural labor for white capitalist profit. Why would you immediately decide the best place to learn anything about it would be In the off topic segment of a video game forum. This is insulting to anyone who has endured cultural appropriation by reducing their pain and suffering down AT BEST to a quick check-in thread and more likely as a bad faith attempt to get their own racism excused.

 

[RobitFarmer]

Surprising to me that Sean Paul is who started this conversation. Sure, he's "light-skinned"...but he's also Jamaican.



It feels like a conversation on "colorism" is getting confused with "cultural appropriation." Which is...on brand for TikTok.

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So we are just allowing bad faith racist threads on here now and moderators are participating in the marketplace of ideas for literal racism. Thank you so much for your moderation contribution of trying to determine which word best fits this thread instead of closing it and directing people to better resources.

 

[Tuorom]

You've been on here since 2017 and haven't gotten a clue from all the threads on this very thing yet?