China and Huawei's Dystopian 'New IP' Plan for 6G: Exporting China's "Social Credit" worldwide

[neoak]

Huawei's plans for 6G and beyond make U.S. concerns over 5G look paltry: Huawei is proposing a fundamental internet redesign, which it calls "New IP," designed to build "intrinsic security" into the web. Intrinsic security means that individuals must register to use the internet, and authorities can shut off an individual user's internet access at any time. In short, Huawei is looking to integrate China's "social credit," surveillance, and censorship regimes into the internet's architecture...

To avoid scrutiny of New IP's shortcomings, Huawei has circumvented international standards bodies where experts might challenge the technical shortcomings of the proposal. Instead, Huawei has worked through the United Nations' International Telecommunications Union (ITU), where Beijing holds more political sway...

Huawei dominance on New IP and 6G would not only create a less free, less interoperable internet, it would pave the way for authoritarian governments to gain expanded say over future changes to the internet for years to come.

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China’s Dystopian “New IP" Plan Shows Need for Renewed US Commitment to Internet Governance

The US must rally partners to rein in the abuse of multilateral institutions for Huawei’s plans on 6G and beyond, which make concerns over 5G look minor.

www.justsecurity.org

And this isn't a secret or anything, but seems to have flown under the radar:

A Brief Introduction about New IP Research Initiative

This article outlines the reasoning behind the New IP initiative, the motivation (why) of the work, the definition & work areas of investigation

www.huawei.com

Do We Need a New IP?

A number of recent publications have addressed Huawei’s proposal for a new internet-like architecture, called “New IP”, which aims to develop a set of protocols that could replace the current Internet. We believe that any evolution of the Internet should be left to the IETF, and we want to explain …

labs.ripe.net

 

[gspec]

China can suck off with this nonsense.

 

[BramStokersDracula]

Absolutely disgusting

 

[Freezasaurus]

Hey this is like that episode of The Orville.

 

[lemonade]

Gotta love the preemptive fear-mongering to fuel more sinophobia. It seems Era does not have enough of that already.

 

[nsilvias]

Gotta love the preemptive fear-mongering to fuel more sinophobia. It seems Era does not have enough of that already.

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while the sinophobia is bad, lets not act like a social credit system is not something we shouldnt be worried about.

 

[99nikniht]

Gotta love the preemptive fear-mongering to fuel more sinophobia. It seems Era does not have enough of that already.

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Dude, I'm ethnic Chinese, and I have no qualms about shitting on China's spread of authoritarianism.

What is your post supposed to say here? Do you not see how fucked up China's policies are when it comes to individual rights? Do you not see how they are treating Uighurs and people of Hong Kong?

For sure sinophobia is bad, but this ain't sinophobia, this is the CCP trying to undermine the internet as we know it. The Chinese government is doing some fucked up shit, and they should be called out for it. If the info in the OP is true, then I don't see how anyone can defend the 'social credit' bullshit.

 

[Harmonius]

Gotta love the preemptive fear-mongering to fuel more sinophobia. It seems Era does not have enough of that already.

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Politely Fuck off with this. I'd be just as much in arms if it was my own government(Canada) pushing for this as if it was China. Authoritarianism is bad regardless of which nationality, and to lump hating this blatant act of aggression towards the concept of the internet as a free and open network with "sinophobia" is bullshit.

 

[thediamondage]

Gotta love the preemptive fear-mongering to fuel more sinophobia. It seems Era does not have enough of that already.

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someone please think of the Chinese government and Huawei

 

[alexlf]

Gotta love the preemptive fear-mongering to fuel more sinophobia. It seems Era does not have enough of that already.

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Calling this proposed system an absolute abomination and underminer of civil liberties is not sinophobia.

 

[sfedai0]

Gotta love the preemptive fear-mongering to fuel more sinophobia. It seems Era does not have enough of that already.

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CCP supporters really want to co-opt sinophobia so badly.

 

[Humidex]

Calling the this proposed system an absolute abomination and underminer of civil liberties is not sinophobia.

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Pretty much this. Lemonade, would you like to expand how the social credit system protects, amongst other things, the right to dissent and disseminate political discourse?

 

[Baji Boxer]

Gotta love the preemptive fear-mongering to fuel more sinophobia. It seems Era does not have enough of that already.

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Sinophobia and calling out an autocratic regime for their actions are not equivalent things.

 

[Tochtli79]

Shitty governments around the world are salivating at this thought.

 

[Trace]

Gotta love the preemptive fear-mongering to fuel more sinophobia. It seems Era does not have enough of that already.

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Absolutely fuck off with this. Being against something that would fundamentally break the internet as we know it does not equal sinophobia in the least.

 

[808s & Villainy]

There's an effectively 0% chance of this ever extending past China's Great Firewall
edit: I guess I should say to the internet as a whole. I can see other autocratic/heavily controlled governments that would be interested in this

 

[neoak]

Gotta love the preemptive fear-mongering to fuel more sinophobia. It seems Era does not have enough of that already.

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"Staff from Huawei and Futurewei, its R&D branch, have made it clear on several occasions that they see New IP as an opportunity to redesign the governance model into a top-down structure. This is the case with the design and standardisation efforts, but also comes through in the network's envisioned functioning. Despite the many claims of taking a decentralised approach, forwarding and access to the network itself would be controlled from centralised authorities who, for instance, would be able to signal subordinate network elements to block a particular data flow. This is much more of a fundamental shift than it first appears to be, as it would give control to the core of the network instead of leaving it to the end points, as we mostly do on the Internet today."

So you're okay with this? Since you made a low effort drive by.

And that's in the last link I posted.

 

[krazen]

Yeah, I dunno. Looks pretty racist to me. The way the title is framed as if the CCP is going to be able to shut down YOUR internet, Westerner("worldwide!"). Which no. Obviously, them hard coding things to make their own dystopia easier to run sucks, but the title is framed as if some dude is gonna kick over your bitcoin mining server.

Shitty governments around the world are salivating at this thought.

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Now this, is the real danger. It's gonna be 'Damn, the CCP sucks. Lets strip this out when we implement our own protocol, keep our citizens safe' to "Hey this will stop the Antifas and the Quedas, we need to keep this in! Don't tell nobody" (c) US Government

 

[KillLaCam]

Gotta love the preemptive fear-mongering to fuel more sinophobia. It seems Era does not have enough of that already.

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While I do think ppl on Era occasionally do this.

This specific situation is more than just a "China bad" thing, countries around the world would love to abuse this system. This is 100% worth sharing

 

[Dest]

Gotta love the preemptive fear-mongering to fuel more sinophobia. It seems Era does not have enough of that already.

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Hope Xi sees this bro.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Gotta love the preemptive fear-mongering to fuel more sinophobia. It seems Era does not have enough of that already.

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Nonsense

 

[Jonnax]

Gotta love the preemptive fear-mongering to fuel more sinophobia. It seems Era does not have enough of that already.

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Huawei has been trying to push this New IP standard for a while.
It is a replacement for the internet.
Objectivity it's for control over internet users.

 

[nightstalker962]

Shitty governments around the world are salivating at this thought.

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And also corporations. Google, Facebook, and Amazon would love something like this. The dystopian future is here folks.

 

[Harmonius]

Shitty governments around the world are salivating at this thought.

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Exactly. If you think Putin/Saudi Arabia/Yemen/Turkey/Possibly Brazil isn't salivating over this,I've got a bridge to sell you.
Heck as mentioned mega companies would abuse this until the cows came home

 

[lemonade]

Here is a quote from one of the article linked:

The Chinese New IP proposal can be successfully contested, but only if the United States rallies its private-industry partners and like-minded international democratic governments to the cause.

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Fear-mongering something that might or might not happen a decade later now to fuel scare against China is not Sinophobia?

Even when in reality it's extremely unlikely to be accepted anywhere? What else but to increase the modern red scare and further enflame the Sinophobia sentiment?

But feel free to keep strawman me into "CCP supporter" or some other nonsense if it strokes your righteous internet ego.

 

[BLEEN]

Gotta love the preemptive fear-mongering to fuel more sinophobia. It seems Era does not have enough of that already.

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Did...
Did you read the article? Or did you just stop at "China"?

 

[neoak]

Yeah, I dunno. Looks pretty racist to me. The way the title is framed as if the CCP is going to be able to shut down YOUR internet, Westerner. Which no.

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Please give me an example of another country that a Social Score for Internet use, and I'll ask for it to be used in the thread title.

And Huawei website's has the proposal on their own website. Read it. I linked it.

 

[mnemonicj]

The tools and technology we use need to become even more resilient with encryption to not allow these entities to control our internet highways.

 

[Akira86]

that's it. take it all the way back to 3G.

$30 a month. no covid antennas or cyberpunk b-plots.

 

[krazen]

Please give me an example of another country that a Social Score for Internet use, and I'll ask for it to be used in the thread title.

And Huawei website's has the proposal on their own website. Read it. I linked it.

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I don't see how everyone is missing the 'worldwide!' and not seing how it's framed oddly. Looking at a glance I come away with the impression the CCP is going to implement internet guards on US soil only they can control

 

[FreezePeach]

Gotta love the preemptive fear-mongering to fuel more sinophobia. It seems Era does not have enough of that already.

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Oh do go away with the catch all defense of every awful garbage the Chinese government does being thrown under the blanket of sinophobia.

 

[Dalek]

Gotta love the preemptive fear-mongering to fuel more sinophobia. It seems Era does not have enough of that already.

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Swing and a miss.

 

[nsilvias]

Here is a quote from one of the article linked:



Fear-mongering something that might or might not happen a decade later now to fuel scare against China is not Sinophobia?

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you dont wait for something to happen to start fighting against something bad. by the time you do it will be too late like global warming. systems like this should not be allowed to even be entertained

 

[kmfdmpig]

Gotta love the preemptive fear-mongering to fuel more sinophobia. It seems Era does not have enough of that already.

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People absolutely should differentiate between the CCP and its lackey companies from Chinese citizens or Chinese/Asian people living around the world. With that said, I don't think that the CCP and Huawei should be given carte blanche to do anything without criticism. That certainly isn't afforded to Russia, the US, or any other world power and shouldn't be to the CCP either.

 

[Dest]

Fear-mongering something that might or might not happen a decade later now to fuel scare against China is not Sinophobia?

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It happening now or happening ten years from now is still a bad thing regardless. This has nothing to do with Sinophobia and everything to do with the inevitable shit future that the CCP is gonna wanna sell the world on. It's indefensible no matter how you want to slice it, even if this only ever hits China. But you know that there are other governments/corporations that are likely already salivating over the mere thought of that level of control. You don't wait 'til something like this is implemented anywhere, because by then it's already too late.

 

[neoak]

I don't see how everyone is missing the 'worldwide!' and not seing how it's framed oddly. Looking at a glance I come away with the impression the CCP is going to implement internet guards on US soil only they can control

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It gives the opportunity for every country to implement a system like that, re-engineering the internet.

But coming from Huawei... :/

Could change title to explain better.

 

[Deleted member 22630]

Gotta love the preemptive fear-mongering to fuel more sinophobia. It seems Era does not have enough of that already.

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Fucking piss off, as a Computer Scientist this is fucking terrifying!

 

[Avitus]

Here is a quote from one of the article linked:



Fear-mongering something that might or might not happen a decade later now to fuel scare against China is not Sinophobia?

Even when in reality it's extremely unlikely to be accepted anywhere? What else but to increase the modern red scare and further enflame the Sinophobia sentiment?

But feel free to keep strawman me into "CCP supporter" or some other nonsense if it strokes your righteous internet ego.

Click to shrink...

"It won't happen if a bunch of countries rally against this bullshit" is maybe not the deflection you were looking for

 

[air jordans for dogs]

Gotta love the preemptive fear-mongering to fuel more sinophobia. It seems Era does not have enough of that already.

Click to shrink...

+2 to your score

 

[Aran]

Gotta love the preemptive fear-mongering to fuel more sinophobia. It seems Era does not have enough of that already.

Click to shrink...

Hahah kindly fuck off if you can't see the disturbing implications this has.

 

[Imaginary_Number]

I guess I agree more with the opinion piece from Ripe. I read the article from Huawei, and although I'm not too knowledgeable about internet architecture, I don't really see the need to rebuild the system from the ground up.

Huawei mentions industrial applications as a potential benefit, but there's already existing protocols like etherCAT, not to mention any number of embedded controllers already controlling the lines. I'm probably wrong, but I just don't see the need for deterministic wireless when other protocols do that currently with a wired connection.

I'm not a fan of the idea of the potential to shut off access to a user/node/whatever. If I understand that right, that could extend to governments or ISPs, which would kill net neutrality.

 

[krazen]

It gives the opportunity for every country to implement a system like that, re-engineering the internet.

But coming from Huawei... :/

Could change title to explain better.

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Again, not saying that the CCP are abhorent pieces of shit that need to get run over with a steamroller.

But like I said, the framing is a bit odd. The big issue here is we all know that other countries s will keeps part, if not whole, of it's big brother implementation if they decide to adopt the standard or make their own version.

 

[neoak]

I'm not a fan of the idea of the potential to shut off access to a user/node/whatever. If I understand that right, that could extend to governments or ISPs, which would kill net neutrality.

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Yup. Can be whoever has control over it.

 

[Mr. Poolman]

Honestly, the idea of registering to use Internet has crossed my mind many times.

User anonimity is a sham anyway, and we actually need some control.

I'm on the fence on this one.

 

[Yerffej]

Here is a quote from one of the article linked:



Fear-mongering something that might or might not happen a decade later now to fuel scare against China is not Sinophobia?

Even when in reality it's extremely unlikely to be accepted anywhere? What else but to increase the modern red scare and further enflame the Sinophobia sentiment?

But feel free to keep strawman me into "CCP supporter" or some other nonsense if it strokes your righteous internet ego.

Click to shrink...

It's super smart to wait and see if they do it before deciding if it's a bad idea. What could possibly go wrong.

 

[neoak]

Again, not saying that the CCP are abhorent pieces of shit that need to get run over with a steamroller.

But like I said, the framing is a bit odd. The big issue here is we all know that other countries s will keeps part, if not whole, of it's big brother implementation if they decide to adopt the standard or make their own version.

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The fact that this is even proposed and being tried to be rammed through the UN, sidelining the IETF is not to be taken lightly.

Also, they do go early. Huawei owns 3007 (figure I found, keeps going up or down) essential declared 5G patents by going early. The most of any company in the world: ~20% of the core patents of 5G actually used are owned by them.

Edit: they weren't late for LTE, but they went with TD-LTE, using part of the homegrown TD-SCDMA.

 

[giallo]

The availability of free and uncensored information online has always been a thorn in the CCP's side. They've spent the last 12 years trying to completely shut off their internet from the rest of the world. Unfortunately for them, VPNs are still widely popular in China, so it's no surprise that they want to try to stem the flow of free information from outside of their borders.

Anyone who still thinks Huawei operates independently from the CCP needs to give their head a shake.

 

[Bluebot]

I just want to point out that regardless on the debate of social credit spreading to other countries, it's still not good that there will be a further tightening grip on the freedom of communication of the 20% of Earth's population that lives in China. That just makes the already fading chance of positive change started by the people that much smaller.

 

[Creation_Scapes]

Gotta love the preemptive fear-mongering to fuel more sinophobia. It seems Era does not have enough of that already.

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Stop it

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Here is a quote from one of the article linked:



Fear-mongering something that might or might not happen a decade later now to fuel scare against China is not Sinophobia?

Even when in reality it's extremely unlikely to be accepted anywhere? What else but to increase the modern red scare and further enflame the Sinophobia sentiment?

But feel free to keep strawman me into "CCP supporter" or some other nonsense if it strokes your righteous internet ego.

Click to shrink...

The sooner people know about this the better. So glad articles are being put out so people can be aware.