• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Chromie

Member
Dec 4, 2017
5,236
Washington
This thread was posted a little earlier. Literally every thread on Cyberpunk has someone bring up transphobia, the OT has a a large post pinned on each page. I think it's great. But should other games have this too?

Consoles are made with slave labor and Uyghurs are literally being killed off by the Chinese government, Last of Us was made with disgusting amount of crunch, Dragon Quest has a composer that denies Japan committed any war crimes, Persona has just as bad, if not worse, stances on LGBT+, or maybe even include that a game like DMC has a domestic terrorist sympasizer? Some of this is all well known among the community but it's not given the same attention.

Would Era hate that though? Would some of us agree that people should see the ugliness of each game on their respective threads Or at least OT?

This is what the post on the Cyberpunk OT. I would seriously welcome this on any game or platform that has a very troubled development, history, or disgusting attitude towards people.

Epileptic PSA: There are reports that animations and flashing lights in this game can cause seizures. Read this article for more information


Why is there controversy surrounding CD Projekt Red and Cyberpunk 2077?

CD Projekt Red has a history of transphobia. This is well documented at this point and not a matter of debate. Due to this context there is particular concern about transphobic or insensitive content in Cyberpunk 2077 itself, such as the decision to tie gender to voice in the character creator, and trans fetishization in illustrations in the game—and these are just examples from prerelease footage. Additionally, there have been concerns about racist imagery and stereotyping. This article goes into depth about some of these issues.


What incidents of transphobia have occurred surrounding the game and the company, and why are they hurtful?

This list will be updated over time as more examples come to light, especially as the game releases and more content is uncovered. If you wish to have something added to this list, please send me a DM and get my attention.


Why is ResetEra allowing an official thread for this game?

There has been a lot of discussion about whether there should even be an official thread for Cyberpunk 2077, and many points of view were considered for this decision. Ultimately, a thread like this can serve as a platform for minority concerns to be aired and discussed respectfully, and given appropriate attention. We've also heard from minority members, including some trans members, who have asked for a space where they can talk about the game without needing to worry about trolling and bigoted posting. We expect all posters in the thread to extend the consideration and empathy to give them that space. We will be moderating as strictly as necessary to make sure they do.


What can I do to help fight transphobia?

Transphobia exists in many aspects of our lives. From casual discrimination such as the continuous misuse of a person's preferred pronouns, to more serious ramifications such as housing being denied, legal rights being taken away, and being discriminated in the legal system. Every trans person either has experienced transphobia in their lives, or will experience transphobia at some point.

Moreover, transphobia is a systematic issue that is present in every level of our society. Politicians fight to take away our rights. Celebrities use coded language and religious justifications, if not outright hostility, in order to continue to deny our existence. Media continues to portray us as the butt of a joke, or acts like we're something to be fascinated by, rather than treated with respect.

Actions speak louder than words: Become active in your local politics, donate to transgender causes, stand up for these issues wherever they arise, and if you know transgender people in your life be there for them and support them.


Here are some pro-trans organizations around the world where you can make a donation and show your support
  • For those of you in the US, The Trevor Project is one of the leading LGBT organizations. They are dedicated to crisis intervention and suicide prevention for people who are in need of support, love, and care.
  • For those of you in the UK, Mermaids is dedicated to the support of transgender, non-binary, and gender-diverse children, young adults, and their families. They have been around since 1995, and have been one of the most vocal voices speaking out against transphobia in the UK, including showing the dangers that transphobia imposes upon our youth.
  • If you would like to donate to CDPR's native country of Poland, you can find the Trans-Fuzja Foundation website here. The Trans-Fuzja Foundation has been around since 2008, and is dedicated to the support of transgender people in Poland in many aspects of life and society, including politics.
We are your friends. We are your family members. We're your coworkers. We're the people you meet on the street. We're the essential workers who keep society running in a pandemic. We're everywhere. We're not some sort of freak or joke, and we're not going away.

I want to give major thanks to Uzzy for lending her talent, time, and effort in putting together graphics and material for this official thread. Without her, this would not have been possible on such short notice. I would also like to give a shout out and thanks to Kyuuji for allowing me to use images and links from her own thread for this posts.
 

Mattmo831

Featuring Mattmo831 from the Apple v Epic case
Member
Oct 26, 2020
3,200
I don't see why not. If a game has any sort of display of bigotry why not go the same route as cyberpunk. (Then again we would have multiple games probably releasing at the same time full of this shit)
 

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,890
I think people should be made aware of troublesome aspects of the media they are consuming even if they like said media. Definitely.

There is far too much handwaving of said issues in games discourse and this site is no exception. Remember all the people trying to shut down valid complaints about Cyberpunk because they were hyped lol
 

AbsoluteZ3R0

Member
Feb 5, 2019
885
Absolutely. I think every problematic aspects of a game and game hardware should get a label. The more informed people are the better.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,426
Sure.

I struggle to think of games that ACTUALLY struggle with transphobia in game, but I feel like devs get put on blast all the time when acting transphobic.
 

TheMoon

|OT|
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,777
Video Games
That's why I added the pinned message from Cyberpunk, I also see some news on the Hogwarts game. There should definitely be a big one for J.K Rowling's terf stance.
I'd also genuinely appreciate something like this not just for cases where we go "yarr this company/person is evil bc xyz!" but also general content warnings like the flashing lights bit or stuff like animal violence (Nabbit is/used to[?] run a thread tracking a lot of games that were free form the latter specifically, if I'm not mistaken?). the things that aren't covered in ratings logos/descriptors but are often hard-line dealbreakers for lots of people. I might be exploding the scope of this idea now but positive labels like "this game has great accessibility options for controls/UI" could be useful. Just spitballing ideas now lol
 

thezboson

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,250
I think this is a good idea and I want to add that these posts should contain information on any charities working with whatever issues apply to the game (like in the pinned post for Cyberpunk). That was a fantastic idea imo.
 

TheMoon

|OT|
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,777
Video Games
Sure.

I struggle to think of games that ACTUALLY struggle with transphobia in game, but I feel like devs get put on blast all the time when acting transphobic.
can you rephrase that? I'm not clear on what you mean, is is that you're trying to think of games that are about/try to deal with the topic of transphobia?
 

a916

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,816
Yeah, I think people should be aware of such things in the grand scheme of things. If people want to avoid having those labels, those studios could just, not be transphobic or grind their employees with crunch.

If every single thread had it, not only is that pretty messed up industry, but I wonder if people will just start tuning out the message of "hey, this is bad". But that's trivial and shouldn't outweigh putting a spotlight on issues that transcend the medium.
 

LavaBadger

Member
Nov 14, 2017
4,986
People should be informed, and make their decisions accordingly. Doesn't sound like a bad idea to me.
 

_zoipi

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 23, 2017
2,377
Madrid
Yes.

For example, when a game has been developed on an inhuman working conditions. I still cringe when i see people praising the game direction or posting those awful meme gifs of The Last of Us. I understand the necessity to label harmful games against LGBT, but also, games that are unashamedly made dismissing working conditions.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,426
can you rephrase that? I'm not clear on what you mean, is is that you're trying to think of games that are about/try to deal with the topic of transphobia?

I was talking more about games that have an active transphobia issue, be it within its narrative, its characterization, its artwork. But, bringing up your point, I can only think of two games off the top of my head that even attempt to deal with transphobia as a narrative concept.

In either case, it should be identified and labeled, if only as a potential trigger warning.
 

Saturday

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,321
Bringing awareness and context towards these topics is always a good idea, and era relative to everywhere else on the internet is strong in that these topics are brought to the forefront by it's community itself, so it would be a natural progression. the devil's in the details, though: when you bring up topics like:

" Consoles are made with slave labour "

does that mean literally every topic about a console release is stickied?

" Dragon Quest has a composer that denies Japan committed any war crimes"

does this mean that dragon quest-adjacent topics like the Hero being included in Smash have this brought up?

as mentioned, the era community brings these points up often enough which is good, But I dunno where staff can define boundaries enough to start stickying posts up every page. The staff and the community would really have to buckle down to maintain good guidelines for it if it were to become common (and god knows it would be common, woo ethical consumption /s)

Cyberpunk was the AAA gaming circlejerk of 2020- and amazingly blatant and upfront in it's failings- so that's why it got the treatment it did, and god knows it should be the same for Hogwarts Legacy at the very least.
 
Last edited:

goodfella

Member
Jan 22, 2018
42
Inevitably we would end up with that for many threads, which I think is fine. I do think we'd need a slightly less disruptive way of communicating these issues though, not because they should be ignored, but because once an issue has been communicated to us we should be trusted to have taken it on. Some sort of dismiss functionality perhaps.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,091
Sure, I think the more information the better. While I still bought CP2077 despite everything, it was nice that I could take it into consideration.

I don't mind being reminded that we are essentially supporting slave labor with the consoles.

I would still like to have the option to have multiple threads on a game despite how controversial it is. As gaming has plenty of controversy to go around, it'll get annoying quick.
 

FPX

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,273
While it definitely runs the risk of desensitizing people from these kinds of posts ("Eh, who cares, tons of games I like have issues, I can ignore these labels" etc) I still think it's a worthwhile thing to discuss. And maybe it will open some people's eyes to how fucked the industry can be, in multiple different facets.

Games I love have massive issues (Langdon and Morrison's VA for DMC5, homophobic and transphobic content in Atlus games, crunch in god knows how many others). And it's because I love them that I'd rather they not hurt others by its content, or only come to fruition by hurting others.
 

FusedAtoms

Member
Jul 21, 2018
3,591
Yeah thatd be great.

I almost bought that 13 sentinels game based on some of the threads here but luckily someone made a thread talking about the naked kids in the game and saved me from that purchase. I would've been fucking pissed off if I bought that shit. That should be plastered at the top of every thread about that game
 

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
A short summary for any controversy in any related game thread is useful. Mostly because there's so much of it it's hard to keep up.
 

Cheesebu

Wrong About Cheese
Member
Sep 21, 2020
6,176
For sure, but to be fair the things you mentioned were talked about frequently on this site. I think the reason the CP2077 case was treated differently was many members of our community constantly downplayed and ignored and even defended the transphobia.

In short, it suffered from pushback to members of this forum that didn't care about the bigotry on display.
 
OP
OP
Chromie

Chromie

Member
Dec 4, 2017
5,236
Washington
Bringing awareness and context towards these topics is always a good idea, and era relative to everywhere else on the internet is strong in that these topics are brought to the forefront by it's community itself, so it would be a natural progression. the devil's in the details, though: when you bring up topics like:

" Consoles are made with slave labour "

does that mean literally every topic about a console release is stickied?

" Dragon Quest has a composer that denies Japan committed any war crimes"

does this mean that dragon quest-adjacent topics like the Hero being included in Smash have this brought up?

as mentioned, the era community brings these points up often enough which is good, But I dunno where staff can define boundaries enough to start stickying posts up every page. The staff and the community would really have to buckle down to maintain good guidelines for it if it were to become common (and god knows it would be common, woo ethical consumption /s)

Cyberpunk was the AAA gaming circlejerk of 2020 so that's why it got the treatment it did, and god knows it should be the same for Hogwarts Legacy at the very least.

I don't know how to tackle the console point honestly. There are PS5, Xbox, and Nintendo OT topics. Why not post it in there? There are rumors of a new Switch model, why not there? Clearly it's something that would take effort though.

Dragon Quest? If the game uses Sugiyama's music then I believe there should be a label. I'm not sure if the spin-offs do but this doesn't seem like a major undertaking. Square Enix clearly knows Sugiyama's stance and for some reason choose to continue working with him rather than using a different composer. As much as I love the franchise I haven't bothered buying a DQ game.
 

ZeroX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,266
Speed Force
I guess, sure. But basically every game developed (or creative endeavor or company or any group of people basically) is going to have some kind of rotten apple(s). There'll be a lot of work required discovering and cataloging it all.
 

Calibro

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,822
Belarus
All Blizzard games should be labeled "by the company that supports the genocidal and oppressive CCP government".
 

ClickyCal'

Member
Oct 25, 2017
59,487
For sure, but to be fair the things you mentioned were talked about frequently on this site. I think the reason the CP2077 case was treated differently was many members of our community constantly downplayed and ignored and even defended the transphobia.

In short, it suffered from pushback to members of this forum that didn't care about the bigotry on display.
Yep. We had threads for all the times CDPR did something, and people straight up downplayed it every single time. It all built up because of that into the thread from Kyuuji. It needed to happen.
 
OP
OP
Chromie

Chromie

Member
Dec 4, 2017
5,236
Washington
I guess, sure. But basically every game developed (or creative endeavor or company or any group of people basically) is going to have some kind of rotten apple(s). There'll be a lot of work required discovering and cataloging it all.

Sure but larger cases like Ubisoft executive and their sexual harassment being rampant, well known, and ignored should be mentioned more.
 

Faenix1

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,114
Canada
I can see it for Transphobia, LGBT+ issues, ,ect. but not sure if Crunch should apply cause then almost every game would have it. And I assume we'd be throwing the "Made in China" stuff on everything from consoles to phones?
 

dgamemaster

Member
Jun 29, 2020
995
I do think content warnings and labels like these could be useful, but I'd argue the situation and context regarding stuff like Devil May Cry and Dragon Quest that you mentioned is slightly different than the situation with CD Projekt Red.

With stuff like Voice Actors and Composers, it's an individual that's responsible and needs to be brought up. They might make up a part of the game, but said parts could in theory be avoided. The reason why things like CD Projekt Red's transphobia got highlighted over those other cases, is because CD Projekt Red as a COMPANY, as a CORPORATION, pushed transphobic ideals. It's not a case of one individual being problematic, but rather a case of a company having a culture of bad behavior that should not be tolerated.

I don't think we should do things like label every DMC thread with a reminder that Reuben is a very bad person since ultimately, I don't think it's that essential, and it would overshadow the generally good work done by other developers at Capcom, the same thing applies to Dragon Quest games with it's composer, we shouldn't let it overshadow the efforts made by the devs at Square Enix. That being said, there shouldn't be problems with people raising those concerns and information without being censored or handwaved by other thread comments. (And companies should be held accountable to the mistakes they made by hiring these problematic individuals and should be pushed to change that.) I also do think when things are evidently part of corporate culture- such as highlighting crunch within Naughty Dog or consistent transphobia in Atlus games, then they should be labeled. When these things have passed beyond being just one problematic individual into a problem involving multiple people or even the creation of a problematic culture, then these need to be highlighted in a warning/label IMO.

So to sum it up, I don't think we should label threads when one individual is the source of contorversy, but if it's something that is a part of a workplace culture or a common recurring theme involving their games, then I think a label would be very welcome. (To be fair though, I also wouldn't have any problems to giving labels to even the small issues either, I just don't think it will be as effective and might even end up downplaying the bigger issues present. We should not accidentally create an equivilance to one terrible individual being just as terrible/hurtful as the culture of an group/corporation. But eh, I could probably be wrong with that.)
 

Kaivan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,390
I guess, sure. But basically every game developed (or creative endeavor or company or any group of people basically) is going to have some kind of rotten apple(s). There'll be a lot of work required discovering and cataloging it all.
For sure, but some games/studios are more alarming than the others, escpecially if the rot is well established is at the top.

www.resetera.com

The Phobic Crimes of Katsura Hashino (Director/Producer, ATLUS)

WHAT IS THIS? It was suggested by several members in the ongoing thread about the Catherine: Full Body scandal (see below) that a "megathread" be created about the man responsible, Katsura Hashino. The purpose of said thread would be to educate Era users about his views, works, and the...
 

.exe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,214
I wouldn't mind. But there's a large contingent of fans who will get at your throat for it or twist themselves into a human pretzel to justify their favs. See: Xenoblade threads and others.
 

LaytonWright

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,148
We need to do the same with crunch companies..

Some of the biggest studios had crunch for months.
 

ZeroX

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,266
Speed Force
Sure but larger cases like Ubisoft executive and their sexual harassment being rampant, well known, and ignored should be mentioned more.
For sure, but some games/studios are more alarming than the others, escpecially if the rot is well established is at the top.

www.resetera.com

The Phobic Crimes of Katsura Hashino (Director/Producer, ATLUS)

WHAT IS THIS? It was suggested by several members in the ongoing thread about the Catherine: Full Body scandal (see below) that a "megathread" be created about the man responsible, Katsura Hashino. The purpose of said thread would be to educate Era users about his views, works, and the...
I mean I don't want to get into comparing what sins are worse, or where the line is when it comes to tagging those things. That's for someone else to decide (moderation? You?), because you're always going to be able to find something that someone finds bad.
 

Deleted member 9306

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
962
I honestly hope people start and keep dragging games for their problematic content more often. It's the only way that game devs are going to learn that being Bigoted has it's disadvantages.
 
OP
OP
Chromie

Chromie

Member
Dec 4, 2017
5,236
Washington
I can see it for Transphobia, LGBT+ issues, ,ect. but not sure if Crunch should apply cause then almost every game would have it. And I assume we'd be throwing the "Made in China" stuff on everything from consoles to phones?

Right now, it's just a question. I'm sure a better solution can be thought up but it's something that's been on my mind since I see it so prevalent with Cyberpunk threads. Why not other games?

Sure, maybe not all studios have the same forced crunch but Rockstar? Naughty Dog? Large studios that are lauded and win a ton of awards while their employees feel they are trapped in their studio because to leave means fucking someone else over. the game is massive, so much of it couldn've been removed and a lot of people feeling it goes on too long. How much time could have been given back to the devs? How much stress could have been avoided? Mental break downs?
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,388
Melbourne, Australia
The privileged part of me wants to bury my head in the sand because this shit all makes me miserable, but when I think about even just a little bit more I think why not? Good to have people have some idea of the content they're potentially consuming along with the practices involved.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.