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Fran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,167
This doesn't make sense to me? My reviewers for LiS were Faddy and Geno, and they definitely both knew that it was Life is Strange Mafia, they told me they had not played it, and Faddy even deep dived into some LiS Wiki articles to understand the flavor more since at least some of the roles were tied to flavor in that game. Why would a reviewer not know the flavor of the game they are reviewing? This is just a weird comment to me.

Maybe I expressed myself badly. Of course you are told the name of the game but you don't need to know the flavour of the game to review it. I have reviewed games about topics that I didn't know at all or games based on no flavour at all (like Conspiracy).

I don't think any reviewer would say "this role is really unfair for this player/this aligment/breaks the game but I will allow it because the flavour says so" no matter how many excuses the gamerunner uses.
 

Fanto

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Oct 25, 2017
11,863
Of course, if Mao is Scum, then I've just been duped by him and I'll need to really reread a lot of things here coming into the next day, but like I said last night in my big post about the Mao situation, I am actually leaning more towards him being Town here and some fuckery being afoot. I want the flip though, it would be far too hard for me to continue without seeing it I think, but I don't want us all to just hold hands and vote for him, I want other things to crop up, I want there to be a counter wagon, I want votes to look at and vote movement and wagons forming/dissolving/whatever.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
But it still comes back to the start of the day

Monkey says she can't sit on a red check. She red checks Maol immediately. Even with what I'm saying Maol is likely gone today.

But then later we get more info about the claim, and that check is just kinda... not there.

It feels like an odd power play to make as a Town.
Gorlak and Fran seem weird and aggressive to me, in a way that sets them apart from most other players in this game so far. I'd be down for a vote on either.
I just want to point out again that someone not playing in a way you expect does not equal scum (nor does someone playing in a way you do expect, like, etc. make them town).

I'm not going to sit on information that could aim game solving. Some people do and try to set up traps, leak, whatever. I find that kind of manipulation can easily backfire and create more chaos. I probably could have gone about this whole thing better but I've tried to be as open as I could be about what I've got to share.

As for kits' posts, man, kits, you (and I) are in that pack too where if we get read based on our attitudes, we are p much always scum, so let's not do this, okay? Gorlak has been pretty clearly town since about 2/3 through d1. I don't always agree with how he's doing things (see above) but do you honestly see an agenda or manipulation behind his posts or is he just frustrated and trying to solve a game that's already a clusterfuck on d2? I mean look around, this shit is like trying to knit a sweater out of wet spaghetti and you are a backpack.

Gorlak is probably the person I think is most likely to be town here, period. Mark it, print it, we'll see post-game.

I am honestly leaning more to the side that Mao is just Town here and that some weird shit is going on, but I also don't doubt for a second that Mao would be able to talk himself out of this situation as Scum. His claim is less believable than the others we've seen so far in my opinion, but there is also the fact that Scum have been given fake roles to claim, and I kind of doubt that role would be given out as a fake one to claim, though I could see Hated being one, but probably not that first one that he claimed, so that either came from his butt or it was a real claim as far as I can tell.
I keep circling this too, but I don't think his role is unbelievable, as a fake claim or real one; I think the way it was presented was for me the real sticking point since D4 is pretty much it if we're not finding scum and he would know that. It ain't like we haven't hit d4 without finding scum before so we're not even talking outliers. It strikes me as purposeful to ignore that when so many posts have been concerned with numbers and odds. By purposeful I mean it wasn't as transparent as could be; he tried to sell a good reason to keep him alive until d4 without addressing that could be endgame. I have a real issue with that. That + getting at least some information on the potential role changer, my role, and whether or not his role was legit (if it would be in the flip, crossed out, a la cultists) means his flip seems pretty good to me today.

COUNTERPOINT: We could potentially come up with a question for me to ask that would allow us to see if I get truthful answers and use that to weigh in on what to do with Maol and then put it off for discussion and decision tomorrow. This is a risk if he is scum, but only a major risk if we think he has the ultimate super power amazing best scum role, so I'd say small risk, especially if he is telling the truth and his role was erased. Which-

If the role-changer is town, could they potentially overwrite all scum powers? That seems OP, no?
If the role-changer is scum and made Maol hated, he's most likely town or neutral.

I believe he did actually have his role changed.

I'm not sure if Nat would specifically contact him to clarify on that point in the middle of the day, tho. Usually the player themselves contact the mod and ask for a clarification, but Mail made it sound like Nat reached out, iirc.
I again think this is one of those things where we just don't know. It really could well be that Nat messaged him. It could be a lie. I think hinging anything on it either way is a mistake.
 

Fanto

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Oct 25, 2017
11,863
Maybe I expressed myself badly. Of course you are told the name of the game but you don't need to know the flavour of the game to review it. I have reviewed games about topics that I didn't know at all or games based on no flavour at all (like Conspiracy).

I don't think any reviewer would say "this role is really unfair for this player/this aligment/breaks the game but I will allow it because the flavour says so" no matter how many excuses the gamerunner uses.
Ok, that does make more sense then when phrased that way. I would agree that a reviewer probably wouldn't just allow an unfair or unfun role into a game just because it aligns with the flavor of the game in a cool way.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Maybe I expressed myself badly. Of course you are told the name of the game but you don't need to know the flavour of the game to review it. I have reviewed games about topics that I didn't know at all or games based on no flavour at all (like Conspiracy).

I don't think any reviewer would say "this role is really unfair for this player/this aligment/breaks the game but I will allow it because the flavour says so" no matter how many excuses the gamerunner uses.
as someone dedicated to designing for flavor, can confirm this, have had this argument 101095209343 times, including with Fran himself XD
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
The backpack thing seems believable. Death Stranding has like 6 characters and this is role madness, so everyone needs sommit even if it's weird and inanimate.

Neutral hunting tho seems kinda odd. I'm actually not sure if it's a common thing in Mafia or not for a role specifically to find the neutral.

unless getting scanned by Kits is a fail state for the neutral
I agree that the concept of the backpack as a role seems believable. Kojima made a pretty big deal about it, specifically telling people to look at it, etc. But yeah, town hunting for one player seems unusual and I kinda support Gorlak here in wanting to know more though considering kits' history I understand hear fear of even coming close to quoting her PM. But maybe we can ask this and I apologize if it did get clarified before and I missed it: Kitsunelaine, does your PM specify ONE spooky thing or not?

Because sure, I suppose it could be that being scanned is a fail but that seems... flimsy. One person who can stop the neutral? But then if the neutral already has another failstate, adding a second one makes a neutral win even harder?

I don't think this means she's lying either way; I think there's probably just some other aspect that maybe we don't know about yet.
 

Fanto

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Oct 25, 2017
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I keep circling this too, but I don't think his role is unbelievable, as a fake claim or real one; I think the way it was presented was for me the real sticking point since D4 is pretty much it if we're not finding scum and he would know that. It ain't like we haven't hit d4 without finding scum before so we're not even talking outliers. It strikes me as purposeful to ignore that when so many posts have been concerned with numbers and odds. By purposeful I mean it wasn't as transparent as could be; he tried to sell a good reason to keep him alive until d4 without addressing that could be endgame. I have a real issue with that. That + getting at least some information on the potential role changer, my role, and whether or not his role was legit (if it would be in the flip, crossed out, a la cultists) means his flip seems pretty good to me today.

COUNTERPOINT: We could potentially come up with a question for me to ask that would allow us to see if I get truthful answers and use that to weigh in on what to do with Maol and then put it off for discussion and decision tomorrow. This is a risk if he is scum, but only a major risk if we think he has the ultimate super power amazing best scum role, so I'd say small risk, especially if he is telling the truth and his role was erased. Which-

If the role-changer is town, could they potentially overwrite all scum powers? That seems OP, no?
If the role-changer is scum and made Maol hated, he's most likely town or neutral.
What kind of question would determine whether you get truthful answers or not though? I honestly wouldn't even know what to ask if I had a role like this. Can you use it like a Lie Detector perhaps?
 

Fran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,167
Just Imagine a One Punch Man Mafia. Saitama wins by default even before the game starts.
 

Fanto

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Oct 25, 2017
11,863
unless getting scanned by Kits is a fail state for the neutral
This is an interesting point that I hadn't really considered. I also think someone else said earlier (sorry I don't remember who and I'm not going to look back for the quote) that perhaps this is cover for the fact that Kits is actually the Neutral? Maybe it was Gorlak who said this? I could see that being a possibility just based on Kits' gambit from LiS where she pretended like she had info about a Snitch being on the Town team, when in reality, she was the Snitch.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
What kind of question would determine whether you get truthful answers or not though? I honestly wouldn't even know what to ask if I had a role like this. Can you use it like a Lie Detector perhaps?
I think I probably could? If we select a pool of potential posts or if we get everyone who's active from now until end of day to post something like "The Pope wears a big hat" I could check it.

I cannot ask about myself, though I don't know why I would.
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,729
I think I probably could? If we select a pool of potential posts or if we get everyone who's active from now until end of day to post something like "The Pope wears a big hat" I could check it.

I cannot ask about myself, though I don't know why I would.
Is it helpful to ask and pin down who you are speaking with? If so, ask if you're speaking to Turmoil and Ket?
 

Fanto

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Oct 25, 2017
11,863
Yes, I did. This brings me back to the question if kits claim was bc of my bluff?
Yes, I remember that now, that's where that thought came from. Kits may have decided to position herself as the opposite of what her actual role was due to your bluff. It would give her some cover while she needs to mark however many people she needs to mark, or whatever is going on with that role.

I could buy that as being a possibility, though I will say I still think the easiest answer is just that Kits is telling the truth. I can see a world where we have a Neutral who needs to mark people like that and probably win in some kind of Arsonist fashion, and then a Town player who can help to uncover and stop them before they can cause their damage. I don't think that is out of the realm of possibility for a 15 person game like this if that is a Neutral role marking people like an Arsonist would.
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
Morning guys. I embarrassingly fell asleep last night with my phone on my face and glasses on, so I'm not too happy about it.
Anyway, I'm here at work but will be present until EoD this time. I'll do a reads list to keep up and comment on anything else that comes up.
 

Fanto

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Oct 25, 2017
11,863
Spec chat can you please help me? I've lost the emotional distance to see things for what they are. Everyone gives reason to wonder and that makes it hard to decide where to focus. Let's try this as if I would be in spec chat? Alright, alright.
*comment about the absurd amount of claims
*town gonna town
*do they really believe this bullshit?
*why don't they see x doing y??

Monkey: opens the day and sets the tone with a red check that is not a red check. Super weird. But not at all a sustainable move as scum? Gambitting to get a lynch and surviving afterwards with all the caveats and that *ominous* I didn't reveal everything yet. Fishy, but for now I'd chalk it up to a weird role. Not the focus today.

Fantomas: is definitely having trouble with the transition between work and game here. Believes whatever monkey says, but that seems to be correct meta behaviour. Leaning town

kitsunelaine: claims out of nowhere, not seeing the utility for town here, but kits always does weird things, NAI. Claim could be cover up for being weird spooky thing herself, but the easier conclusion is that she is telling the truth? Still leaning town

Fat4All: Shows open distrust of the monkey claim. Has he commented on Mao? "I believe it" lol - that's all?

I think there is a weird dissonance in the thread - we have Fandorin, Mao, Fat going in the same direction and on the otherhand Fantomas, Monkey and a pint of Fran. Most prevalent with the reads on Fat4All. Something is in there, I have yet to figure out what.

Fandorin: Is active, but would probably my suspect if Mao flips scum. I do feel drawn more to his logic than elsewhere, but I know he's capable of faking it very good. Keeping him as null for now

Fran: EoD was sus, "all 3 of them are scum". Twice even. That felt like a knee jerk reaction and panic. Today he's sticking to the red check and his theory. But I do think it could come from a town point of view. Fuck, idk.

Malus: Is very concise, but also sharp. He puts his opinion out there and I tend to agree with his statements. Out of the low activity bunch, he's the one I'd townread. I could be fooled here, but he wouldn't be my priority right now.

Kalor: He's definitely different. He seems to avoid putting his opinion out. Anything that could connect him to anyone, he'll always preempt. Look at his posts, you can't get anything there. Defnitily someone I would push.

Meatwad: Came off as being inexperienced or afraid, but I've been burned by scum playing that card often. Tries to find his footing now, but there was one sentence that showed a level of self-awareness, that I wouldn't expect from town. You could add him to the above camp of Monkey and Fanto. Hmm.

Vincent Alexander: Rereading his D2. He's gone full circle, suspecting Fran and Mao, discussing it, rereading and ends up not finding them suspicious anymore. This doesn't feel faked to me as of now. Is it too much going with the flow? Some earlier posts felt like being active for the sake of it. Avoiding a thing or two. Null

Kopite: He might be the only one to question monkey's claim AND is suspicious of doggo. He stood firm to his opinion that Mao flips is the most useful. I was susprised because he actually put out decent contributions. I like his D2. He'd go into a similar category as Malus.

And lastly Mao:
While I liked EoD, he could've easily used me and turmoil. D2 was an uphill battle for him. In general I tend to follow his point of view. Fanto pointed out sth. strange in regards to me and I agree. A throwaway "I'm also paranoid about you" didn't feel that way at all.
The biggest problem is the retcon of his claim *after* significant doubts were voiced. If he truly misunderstood what happened to him, than that's a pity, but it does read like an out. I think malus put it best and brought forth the comparison to HvV2/meta.
The hard part is that everything sounds so believable.

But fellow spec members, town gonna town and let that fly, it's so absurd, right? Cabot would you lynch here? Fixing his claims is a red flag. But monkey's thing was also super weird and left everything open. Where to focus?
I just wanted to go back to this post quick, firstly because I find the Spec Chat commentary to be hilarious lol "Cabot, who would you lunch here?" is like the most spec chat question lmao.

As for the reads themselves, you think Fando and Mao could be on a team together then, saying you would consider Fando a top suspect if Mao were to flip Scum? If Mao were to flip Town, would the opposite be true then, or would you still have thoughts on Fando?

I still disagree with the comments about Fran's EoD1, nothing there felt particularly scummy to me. I somewhat agree that the comment about 3 Scum stacking on him was odd, but I feel like a Scum Fran wouldn't make that comment because he would be hyper aware of how strange it would sound.

Could you point out this post from Meatwad that you said "showed a level of self-awareness" because I would be interested to take a look at that.
 

malus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,947
To be honest Kopite, Meatwad and Kalor kind of blend together for me. They all don't really have any ground breaking posts and it makes it hard for me to differentiate who has said what.
 

malus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,947
Also I want to believe Kits because I find a role being a Backpack to be hilarious.

On a more serious note, I haven't really followed the death stranding marketing, but does the backpack just detect those hand print things or does it also affect them in a way?
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
On Kits' role, one specific thought I had that I don't think was addressed is what exactly is she "scanning" for in view Gorlak's mark. Flavor indicates she's looking for the handprinter and not the marks, but if we are really talking about a neutral it would make more sense if she actually had to "check" the players that got marked.

I remember a similar situation at Monopoly Mafia where Muffin (I think?) was a neutral bomber that had a town aligned counter that could defuse his bombs.
 
OP
OP
Natiko

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
==== DAY 2 VOTES ====
Day Start

Maolfunction (3 votes)
Dr. Monkey - #508 #517
Kitsunelaine - #797
Kalor - #864
Vincent Alexander - #930 #992
Fat4all - #1,027

Meatwad (1 votes)
Fantomas - #1,035

Kalor (1 votes)
Gorlak - #833

Fran (1 votes)
Maolfunction - #832

Gorlak (0 votes)
Kitsunelaine - #655 #797

Dr. Monkey (0 votes)
Gorlak - #509 #513

Not voting: Kopite, Fran, Meatwad, Vincent Alexander, malus, Fandorin, Dr. Monkey

Post Counts:
Gorlak: 86 Kitsunelaine: 79 Fat4all: 76 Dr. Monkey: 63 Fantomas: 58 Maolfunction: 44 Fran: 42 Fandorin: 35 Vincent Alexander: 23 Meatwad: 16 Kopite: 15 Kalor: 13 malus: 8

Current Countdown:
dngil36012



Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
 

Fanto

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Oct 25, 2017
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Also I want to believe Kits because I find a role being a Backpack to be hilarious.

On a more serious note, I haven't really followed the death stranding marketing, but does the backpack just detect those hand print things or does it also affect them in a way?
From the trailers I've seen (which is admittedly not all of them, I've been trying to keep in the dark more as the game has gotten closer to release) it just detects the invisible thingys that leave the handprints behind. It will point at them and start flashing and snapping at them or whatever, like in that gif I posted yesterday morning when first discussing the claim.
 

Fanto

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Oct 25, 2017
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Ok, I'm going to be heading in to work in about 5 minutes here. You know the drill, I'll try my best to be around, but it all depends on how busy I am and how much catch-up I need to play on my breaks.

I'm ok with leaving my vote on Meatwad for now to express my concerns about what I perceive to be sheepish behavior coming from him, which reads as pretty Scummy to me, he was similarly sheeping a lot of reads in GoT if I remember right.
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
Fandorin: Is active, but would probably my suspect if Mao flips scum. I do feel drawn more to his logic than elsewhere, but I know he's capable of faking it very good. Keeping him as null for now
Fanto already asked, but can you elaborate on the link between me and Maol?

Someone said a few posts back that, in the world that Maol is scum and is somehow faking his claims, then his scum mates would probably bus comfortably by parading a "we need to lunch Maol this phase" discourse, while secretly hoping for something else to pop up. I'm of the same mind on this take, which is why I prodded Kopite's last night on this point (and somehow I don't really remember what he answered - fuck playing this sleepy). Anyway, do you agree with this? Anyone else who you think would be implicated by a Maol scum flip?
 

Fran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,167
Because sure, I suppose it could be that being scanned is a fail but that seems... flimsy. One person who can stop the neutral? But then if the neutral already has another failstate, adding a second one makes a neutral win even harder?

This is what bothers me about Kit's claim. She claims that she is looking for a spooky thing. And when she finds it, what? She has done her thing and she is just vanilla for the rest of the game? And if we lynched the spooky thing D1? I can believe that she must find a specific target but I don't believe it's only that. Something is missing there.

And that is also why Maol claim made no sense. He was doomed but someone changed his role. If the role changer was lynched D1, what happened? He was definitely doomed? How is that not unfair?

I will be out for a while but I will be around before day end.
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
I think I probably could? If we select a pool of potential posts or if we get everyone who's active from now until end of day to post something like "The Pope wears a big hat" I could check it.

I cannot ask about myself, though I don't know why I would.
Don't know if you said anything about this, but is the pool of players you can "target" is the same every night or does it change somehow?
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
This is what bothers me about Kit's claim. She claims that she is looking for a spooky thing. And when she finds it, what? She has done her thing and she is just vanilla for the rest of the game? And if we lynched the spooky thing D1? I can believe that she must find a specific target but I don't believe it's only that. Something is missing there.

And that is also why Maol claim made no sense. He was doomed but someone changed his role. If the role changer was lynched D1, what happened? He was definitely doomed? How is that not unfair?

I will be out for a while but I will be around before day end.
This has been talked through a lot already, but I don't think a "doomed vanilla" role is really unfair or unfun like you seem to think. Even without considering the role changer, which is still a completely unknown factor btw, knowing you're dead from start really affects how you should play ( baiting a NK or even considering a self-lynch in favor of another player). Plus end of D4 is still really a long ways of so it's not like he didn't even have the chance to play the game.

Could be remembering this wrong, but we had Splinter as a vanilla townie in HvV1 while at the same time having faircure as Yugi, AKA the most batshit town PR ever. That is actually weirder to me than the claimed role from Maol.
 

Kopite

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,018
Fanto's post about Meadwad made me see that his read on doggo was 'Plays like Blarg'. That's the same take I had and a couple of posters then told me that he doesn't play that Blargly. I think Fantos right here that Meat is just sheeping his reads. Can others look back at the post (sorry for not quoting it, damn mobile) and tell us what you think? Would also like Meatwad to respond to it.

Gorlak, I'll do a read on Kalor before EOD.
 

Meatwad

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,653
USA
I wouldn't call seeing the things other people have observed also as "Sheeping" I'm just giving my honest opinions. If people want to interpret that as sheeping then they're ok to do so.
 

Maolfunction

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,871
Morning all, can't respond to everything, I'm about to drive to work, but I want to quickly point out how Fran keeps saying a doomed vanilla townie is an unfair role to play as.

No it's not. It forces you to approach the game differently and rethink your strategy since you only have a few day phases to live. Just because you're gonna die doesn't mean the game is suddenly not fun anymore.

Its a really weird point he's brought up several times without even asking me if I thought the role was actually unfair or unfun to get.

Alright, gotta drive now, I'll be back soon to respond to other stuff.
 

Maolfunction

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,871
Maolfunction I have to ask again: Why did you not reveal your suicidal role at the end of the day? You were convinced turmoil was town and you said that your flip would provide info on others. Your alleged former role was a detriment to town.
Well I'll be honest, I wanted to play the game and I already had the plan of trying to get night killed if I got past D1. As EoD approached, it seemed obvious that turmoil was gonna be the target, so I kept in mind if he. claimed something important to town, then I would mention that I was suicidal and a better option for town over potentially killing an important PR. But turmoil never claimed so I made the assumption his role was also low impact too.

Also, several people have mentioned that my D1 play didn't line up with wanting to be night killed and I'm not quite sure what they expect in order to be killed D1. I played expressly townie, my EoD play was extremely town flavored. I'm not the only player who thought so, it's been stated by several players now. Does scum not want to get rid of players that are perceived as town? What do you all mean that my play D1 wasn't consistent with getting night killed? Makes little sense to me to say that.

Lastly, I want to be clear, town needs to lunch me today. They need to see what my alignment is, that I'm not lying, and they need to better understand Monkey's role. You cannot keep me around, scum has been using the discussion around me, my roles and my alignment to distract people from them. Don't let them. I'm gonna vote myself a little bit later in the day to make sure town has most of the day to talk, but I cannot stress enough that I need to die so you can see my flip.
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
Kitsunelaine: Town read. Role claim came out of nowhere and I handn't considered the possibility that she could've claimed because of Gorlak's handprint reveal, but that's the only small gripe I have. General stubbornness over Gorlak's argument and reads seem to match with what I've expected.

Maolfunction: A hard read due to the mess this phase turned out to be, but a town lean nonetheless. Is still sharp when considering other players contributions including those related to his claim - like his town read on Fat4All due to his take on Monkey's red check (which we apparently are the only ones that liked). Maol is an experienced player and his meta play is still his own, but I don't think he'd be able to fake his overall "level headness" throughout this phase, like when he first claimed his role after attention was drifting from Monkey's read check.

malus: The player I feel better from the lower count posters, but nothing decisive one way or another. A slight town lean. Meta read is that i'm usually wary of everything he posts, but this game nothing jumped to my attention so far and I remember him having a few original thoughts that seemed genuine.

Fat4all: I've talked about how I liked his progression on Monkey's red check as the questions he made are on point and also seem sincere. Went to look back at his D1 since he was the only player that didn't put a vote down, but there's really not much there to go over. #228 and #249 are the only ones with content and (the first is about how he doesn't really like D1 and the second is about the Monkey x Gorlak scum numbers discussion). Fat4all can you talk about your vote on D1? Apologies if I missed it.

Kalor: I'm not even sure at this point. I guess the post I made earlier about how I sorta town read how he doesn't really seem obliged to comment on everything (since that indicates he really doesn't care about "public opinion" of him) still stands, but despite him making a few other posts I can't say where he stands right now other than the fact that he wants closure on Maol this phase.

Vincent Alexander: Definitely a blind spot to me. I'm not confident at all on my read on him and I admit I'm legit leaning on Fantomas to guide me on this read. I generally read town when someone is openly unsure and his reads, VA to me is never quite there. I don't see him prodding others or participating in the discussion, so to me it looks like he's not solving the game, especially considering he has been pretty safe on his reads so far.

Kopite: Sorta null. He seems detached from the other lower count posters, which might be a good sign? #995 he answered my question regarding his "Maol needs to go" take which I was wary of as possible Maol's bussers like I mentioned a bit earlier, and I could definitely see him as a partner if Maol flips scum.

Meatwad: Scum read. Has been participating a bit more on this phase, but still very safe and "sheepy" as Fantomas went over. Could be uninterested town, but I just don't see him trying to solve the game as well, seems content sitting in the sidelines taking easy potshots. Further, I don't think he even tried looking for scum into his D1 wagon, which is alarming to me.

Dr. Monkey: I'll reiterate my earlier read on her - I town read her for the claim, despite the blind spots on the claim. I'm sorta surprised about the confusion we got on her own role PM, but I'll willing to trust her on the "messiness" of her role since: a) she's been open about it in a way I don't see Scum! Monkey being; and b) her progression on the Maol read this phase.

Dr. Monkey I probably missed this, but did you answer Fat4All and I when we questioned whether your role is actually "targetable"? Since you had a post previous to Maol's claim supposing the amount of actions on him, I think this could be important.

Gorlak: Town read. I'm tired of writting this post so I'll just say that Gorlak is my top town read and I've seen zero to doubt that so far.

Fantomas: Solid town read, though a few notches down from Gorlak. Despite the usual scum hunting and solving, Fantomas seems more refrained to me this time around. It's probably due to his new job, and he ended up making a high standard for himself due to meta, but I've still noted it.
 

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
I wouldn't call seeing the things other people have observed also as "Sheeping" I'm just giving my honest opinions. If people want to interpret that as sheeping then they're ok to do so.
It's more that I cant really recall any unique observations from you so far, it's almost always something that someone else has already said and then you just rephrase it. That's what looks suspicious to me I guess.
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
As for my vote:

VOTE: Meatwad

I've seen others low key considering this lynch without following through, so let's see.
 

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
Kitsunelaine: Town read. Role claim came out of nowhere and I handn't considered the possibility that she could've claimed because of Gorlak's handprint reveal, but that's the only small gripe I have. General stubbornness over Gorlak's argument and reads seem to match with what I've expected.

Maolfunction: A hard read due to the mess this phase turned out to be, but a town lean nonetheless. Is still sharp when considering other players contributions including those related to his claim - like his town read on Fat4All due to his take on Monkey's red check (which we apparently are the only ones that liked). Maol is an experienced player and his meta play is still his own, but I don't think he'd be able to fake his overall "level headness" throughout this phase, like when he first claimed his role after attention was drifting from Monkey's read check.

malus: The player I feel better from the lower count posters, but nothing decisive one way or another. A slight town lean. Meta read is that i'm usually wary of everything he posts, but this game nothing jumped to my attention so far and I remember him having a few original thoughts that seemed genuine.

Fat4all: I've talked about how I liked his progression on Monkey's red check as the questions he made are on point and also seem sincere. Went to look back at his D1 since he was the only player that didn't put a vote down, but there's really not much there to go over. #228 and #249 are the only ones with content and (the first is about how he doesn't really like D1 and the second is about the Monkey x Gorlak scum numbers discussion). Fat4all can you talk about your vote on D1? Apologies if I missed it.

Kalor: I'm not even sure at this point. I guess the post I made earlier about how I sorta town read how he doesn't really seem obliged to comment on everything (since that indicates he really doesn't care about "public opinion" of him) still stands, but despite him making a few other posts I can't say where he stands right now other than the fact that he wants closure on Maol this phase.

Vincent Alexander: Definitely a blind spot to me. I'm not confident at all on my read on him and I admit I'm legit leaning on Fantomas to guide me on this read. I generally read town when someone is openly unsure and his reads, VA to me is never quite there. I don't see him prodding others or participating in the discussion, so to me it looks like he's not solving the game, especially considering he has been pretty safe on his reads so far.

Kopite: Sorta null. He seems detached from the other lower count posters, which might be a good sign? #995 he answered my question regarding his "Maol needs to go" take which I was wary of as possible Maol's bussers like I mentioned a bit earlier, and I could definitely see him as a partner if Maol flips scum.

Meatwad: Scum read. Has been participating a bit more on this phase, but still very safe and "sheepy" as Fantomas went over. Could be uninterested town, but I just don't see him trying to solve the game as well, seems content sitting in the sidelines taking easy potshots. Further, I don't think he even tried looking for scum into his D1 wagon, which is alarming to me.

Dr. Monkey: I'll reiterate my earlier read on her - I town read her for the claim, despite the blind spots on the claim. I'm sorta surprised about the confusion we got on her own role PM, but I'll willing to trust her on the "messiness" of her role since: a) she's been open about it in a way I don't see Scum! Monkey being; and b) her progression on the Maol read this phase.

Dr. Monkey I probably missed this, but did you answer Fat4All and I when we questioned whether your role is actually "targetable"? Since you had a post previous to Maol's claim supposing the amount of actions on him, I think this could be important.

Gorlak: Town read. I'm tired of writting this post so I'll just say that Gorlak is my top town read and I've seen zero to doubt that so far.

Fantomas: Solid town read, though a few notches down from Gorlak. Despite the usual scum hunting and solving, Fantomas seems more refrained to me this time around. It's probably due to his new job, and he ended up making a high standard for himself due to meta, but I've still noted it.
Yeah I agree with the majority of these reads. With Vincent I'll take some more time this weekend, assuming I'm still alive, to dive deeper there since I'll actually be around to play more often. Dont have much more time to comment for now though, I'll be back in a couple hours.
 

Meatwad

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,653
USA
It's more that I cant really recall any unique observations from you so far, it's almost always something that someone else has already said and then you just rephrase it. That's what looks suspicious to me I guess.

That's fair, there's a lot of posts in this thread and I think that makes it more likely that somebody will already have said something that I am thinking. I certainly don't want to start obsessing over what other people are saying and then try and tailor my thoughts to be different because that wouldn't be genuine on my part.

Now if you want to talk about sheeping, look at Fandorin, who basically just dropped a vote on me because "Others were thinking it" I'd like Fandorin to lay out his case against me instead of look like he's just following where the wind happens to be blowing in order to blend in. When I drop my vote for the day it won't be a vote influenced by what others are thinking that's for sure.
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
That's fair, there's a lot of posts in this thread and I think that makes it more likely that somebody will already have said something that I am thinking. I certainly don't want to start obsessing over what other people are saying and then try and tailor my thoughts to be different because that wouldn't be genuine on my part.

Now if you want to talk about sheeping, look at Fandorin, who basically just dropped a vote on me because "Others were thinking it" I'd like Fandorin to lay out his case against me instead of look like he's just following where the wind happens to be blowing in order to blend in. When I drop my vote for the day it won't be a vote influenced by what others are thinking that's for sure.
I've explained my read on you on the post above the vote.
And I'm not influenced by others on my vote, my read is my own. I'm wary that despite being suspect by a few players, no wagon formed on you this phase. I wanna see if there's actually intent there and, If you flip scum, look into those players for more clues.
 

Meatwad

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,653
USA
I've explained my read on you on the post above the vote.
And I'm not influenced by others on my vote, my read is my own. I'm wary that despite being suspect by a few players, no wagon formed on you this phase. I wanna see if there's actually intent there and, If you flip scum, look into those players for more clues.

We'll see, I think after I flip people should certainly look into you
 
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OP
Natiko

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
==== DAY 2 VOTES ====
Day Start

Maolfunction (3 votes)
Dr. Monkey - #508 #517
Kitsunelaine - #797
Kalor - #864
Vincent Alexander - #930 #992
Fat4all - #1,027

Meatwad (2 votes)
Fantomas - #1,035
Fandorin - #1,086

Kalor (1 votes)
Gorlak - #833

Fran (1 votes)
Maolfunction - #832

Gorlak (0 votes)
Kitsunelaine - #655 #797

Dr. Monkey (0 votes)
Gorlak - #509 #513

Not voting: Kopite, Fran, Meatwad, Vincent Alexander, malus, Dr. Monkey

Post Counts:
Gorlak: 86 Kitsunelaine: 79 Fat4all: 76 Dr. Monkey: 63 Fantomas: 63 Maolfunction: 46 Fran: 43 Fandorin: 43 Vincent Alexander: 23 Meatwad: 19 Kopite: 16 Kalor: 13 malus: 8

Current Countdown:
dngil36012



Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
Kitsunelaine: Town read. Role claim came out of nowhere and I handn't considered the possibility that she could've claimed because of Gorlak's handprint reveal, but that's the only small gripe I have. General stubbornness over Gorlak's argument and reads seem to match with what I've expected.

Maolfunction: A hard read due to the mess this phase turned out to be, but a town lean nonetheless. Is still sharp when considering other players contributions including those related to his claim - like his town read on Fat4All due to his take on Monkey's red check (which we apparently are the only ones that liked). Maol is an experienced player and his meta play is still his own, but I don't think he'd be able to fake his overall "level headness" throughout this phase, like when he first claimed his role after attention was drifting from Monkey's read check.

malus: The player I feel better from the lower count posters, but nothing decisive one way or another. A slight town lean. Meta read is that i'm usually wary of everything he posts, but this game nothing jumped to my attention so far and I remember him having a few original thoughts that seemed genuine.

Fat4all: I've talked about how I liked his progression on Monkey's red check as the questions he made are on point and also seem sincere. Went to look back at his D1 since he was the only player that didn't put a vote down, but there's really not much there to go over. #228 and #249 are the only ones with content and (the first is about how he doesn't really like D1 and the second is about the Monkey x Gorlak scum numbers discussion). Fat4all can you talk about your vote on D1? Apologies if I missed it.

Kalor: I'm not even sure at this point. I guess the post I made earlier about how I sorta town read how he doesn't really seem obliged to comment on everything (since that indicates he really doesn't care about "public opinion" of him) still stands, but despite him making a few other posts I can't say where he stands right now other than the fact that he wants closure on Maol this phase.

Vincent Alexander: Definitely a blind spot to me. I'm not confident at all on my read on him and I admit I'm legit leaning on Fantomas to guide me on this read. I generally read town when someone is openly unsure and his reads, VA to me is never quite there. I don't see him prodding others or participating in the discussion, so to me it looks like he's not solving the game, especially considering he has been pretty safe on his reads so far.

Kopite: Sorta null. He seems detached from the other lower count posters, which might be a good sign? #995 he answered my question regarding his "Maol needs to go" take which I was wary of as possible Maol's bussers like I mentioned a bit earlier, and I could definitely see him as a partner if Maol flips scum.

Meatwad: Scum read. Has been participating a bit more on this phase, but still very safe and "sheepy" as Fantomas went over. Could be uninterested town, but I just don't see him trying to solve the game as well, seems content sitting in the sidelines taking easy potshots. Further, I don't think he even tried looking for scum into his D1 wagon, which is alarming to me.

Dr. Monkey: I'll reiterate my earlier read on her - I town read her for the claim, despite the blind spots on the claim. I'm sorta surprised about the confusion we got on her own role PM, but I'll willing to trust her on the "messiness" of her role since: a) she's been open about it in a way I don't see Scum! Monkey being; and b) her progression on the Maol read this phase.

Dr. Monkey I probably missed this, but did you answer Fat4All and I when we questioned whether your role is actually "targetable"? Since you had a post previous to Maol's claim supposing the amount of actions on him, I think this could be important.

Gorlak: Town read. I'm tired of writting this post so I'll just say that Gorlak is my top town read and I've seen zero to doubt that so far.

Fantomas: Solid town read, though a few notches down from Gorlak. Despite the usual scum hunting and solving, Fantomas seems more refrained to me this time around. It's probably due to his new job, and he ended up making a high standard for himself due to meta, but I've still noted it.
Just realized Fran isnt there? I guess I must have deleted his name while typing.

I'm leaning town on him, though not as confident as I was on D1 regarding him getting "progressively easier to read" lol
Though I disagree with him, I sorta town read him getting hang up on this not really substantial game balance argument over Maol's role. Fran is very correct and fair when playing Mafia, and I don't think he'd use outside of game elements like "what is allowed in game review" when discussing something like this unless in actual good faith. I also see very little for him to gain from this point if he's scum - Maol's role isn't the main argument going on for his lynch.
 
Oct 26, 2017
19,729
Love you all, but I've asked to be replaced. I'm not giving this game the full attention it deserves, so hopefully Nat can whip you up a more active player in my stead. The bomb cyclone that hammered the hell out of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, etc. these last few days has left a lot of people without power and phone service, and I'm directly involved in trying to get them up-and-running so they can have heat. Or a phone line in case of medical emergencies. We're just now getting some of our areas up on generators, so today and this weekend is going to be extremely busy as we move onto phase 2.
 
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OP
Natiko

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,263
Love you all, but I've asked to be replaced. I'm not giving this game the full attention it deserves, so hopefully Nat can whip you up a more active player in my stead. The bomb cyclone that hammered the hell out of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, etc. these last few days has left a lot of people without power and phone service, and I'm directly involved in trying to get them up-and-running so they can have heat. Or a phone line in case of medical emergencies. We're just now getting some of our areas up on generators, so today and this weekend is going to be extremely busy as we move onto phase 2.
Best of luck VA - that's definitely more pressing than a silly game.

I'll update everyone once I have a replacement confirmed.
 

Kopite

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,018
Love you all, but I've asked to be replaced. I'm not giving this game the full attention it deserves, so hopefully Nat can whip you up a more active player in my stead. The bomb cyclone that hammered the hell out of Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, etc. these last few days has left a lot of people without power and phone service, and I'm directly involved in trying to get them up-and-running so they can have heat. Or a phone line in case of medical emergencies. We're just now getting some of our areas up on generators, so today and this weekend is going to be extremely busy as we move onto phase 2.
Good luck VA
 

malus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,947
Kitsunelaine: Town read. Role claim came out of nowhere and I handn't considered the possibility that she could've claimed because of Gorlak's handprint reveal, but that's the only small gripe I have. General stubbornness over Gorlak's argument and reads seem to match with what I've expected.

Maolfunction: A hard read due to the mess this phase turned out to be, but a town lean nonetheless. Is still sharp when considering other players contributions including those related to his claim - like his town read on Fat4All due to his take on Monkey's red check (which we apparently are the only ones that liked). Maol is an experienced player and his meta play is still his own, but I don't think he'd be able to fake his overall "level headness" throughout this phase, like when he first claimed his role after attention was drifting from Monkey's read check.

malus: The player I feel better from the lower count posters, but nothing decisive one way or another. A slight town lean. Meta read is that i'm usually wary of everything he posts, but this game nothing jumped to my attention so far and I remember him having a few original thoughts that seemed genuine.

Fat4all: I've talked about how I liked his progression on Monkey's red check as the questions he made are on point and also seem sincere. Went to look back at his D1 since he was the only player that didn't put a vote down, but there's really not much there to go over. #228 and #249 are the only ones with content and (the first is about how he doesn't really like D1 and the second is about the Monkey x Gorlak scum numbers discussion). Fat4all can you talk about your vote on D1? Apologies if I missed it.

Kalor: I'm not even sure at this point. I guess the post I made earlier about how I sorta town read how he doesn't really seem obliged to comment on everything (since that indicates he really doesn't care about "public opinion" of him) still stands, but despite him making a few other posts I can't say where he stands right now other than the fact that he wants closure on Maol this phase.

Vincent Alexander: Definitely a blind spot to me. I'm not confident at all on my read on him and I admit I'm legit leaning on Fantomas to guide me on this read. I generally read town when someone is openly unsure and his reads, VA to me is never quite there. I don't see him prodding others or participating in the discussion, so to me it looks like he's not solving the game, especially considering he has been pretty safe on his reads so far.

Kopite: Sorta null. He seems detached from the other lower count posters, which might be a good sign? #995 he answered my question regarding his "Maol needs to go" take which I was wary of as possible Maol's bussers like I mentioned a bit earlier, and I could definitely see him as a partner if Maol flips scum.

Meatwad: Scum read. Has been participating a bit more on this phase, but still very safe and "sheepy" as Fantomas went over. Could be uninterested town, but I just don't see him trying to solve the game as well, seems content sitting in the sidelines taking easy potshots. Further, I don't think he even tried looking for scum into his D1 wagon, which is alarming to me.

Dr. Monkey: I'll reiterate my earlier read on her - I town read her for the claim, despite the blind spots on the claim. I'm sorta surprised about the confusion we got on her own role PM, but I'll willing to trust her on the "messiness" of her role since: a) she's been open about it in a way I don't see Scum! Monkey being; and b) her progression on the Maol read this phase.

Dr. Monkey I probably missed this, but did you answer Fat4All and I when we questioned whether your role is actually "targetable"? Since you had a post previous to Maol's claim supposing the amount of actions on him, I think this could be important.

Gorlak: Town read. I'm tired of writting this post so I'll just say that Gorlak is my top town read and I've seen zero to doubt that so far.

Fantomas: Solid town read, though a few notches down from Gorlak. Despite the usual scum hunting and solving, Fantomas seems more refrained to me this time around. It's probably due to his new job, and he ended up making a high standard for himself due to meta, but I've still noted it.
Just realized Fran isnt there? I guess I must have deleted his name while typing.

I'm leaning town on him, though not as confident as I was on D1 regarding him getting "progressively easier to read" lol
Though I disagree with him, I sorta town read him getting hang up on this not really substantial game balance argument over Maol's role. Fran is very correct and fair when playing Mafia, and I don't think he'd use outside of game elements like "what is allowed in game review" when discussing something like this unless in actual good faith. I also see very little for him to gain from this point if he's scum - Maol's role isn't the main argument going on for his lynch.
That's a lot of town reads. If I read this correctly your only scum read is Meatwad. Who do you think would be his partners?