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Deleted member 18944

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
6,944


Ilhan said it best



It's like democrats lost the 2016 election, spent 4 years rightfully complaining about republicans and Trump doing everything that they possibly could to pack the courts, and then when they finally win the highest office in the land, they want to continue shitting on progressive ideas and talking about this bullshit fantasy of the moderate republican helping them pass needed changes and legislation.

It's ridiculous that this party cannot escape republican talking points and instead working towards progressive policy that could help turn non-voting disenfranchised people into voters (who would turn around and vote D, but hey! moderate republicans gotta be worked with omegalul)

The broader point being this - Democrats are blaming progressive ideals for causing harm to their election races, and are actively pushing to be moderate because they fear progressive policies will be their undoing, AKA packing courts, ending filibuster, medicare for all, etc, etc, etc.

To your first point, Democrats lost seats in an election where they were expected to gain them. Is that what you are ascribing to racism and white supremacy at the polls?

I think it's going to be really important how the party deals with this internally, and whether the party is going to be honest about doing a real post-mortem and actually digging into why they lost. Because before we even had any data yet in a lot of these races, there was already finger-pointing that this was progressives' fault and that this was the fault of the Movement for Black Lives.

www.nytimes.com

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez on Biden’s Win, House Losses, and What’s Next for the Left (Published 2020)

The congresswoman said Joe Biden’s relationship with progressives would hinge on his actions. And she dismissed criticism from House moderates, calling some candidates who lost their races “sitting ducks.”
 
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Bebpo

Member
Feb 4, 2018
4,574
Maybe instead of blaming the party, blame Joe Manchin and primary his ass. He's not speaking for the entire party there. GOP falls in line, Democrats unfortunately can take their own stances.
 

Richiek

Member
Nov 2, 2017
12,063
This is a Senator from a deep Red state, so you gotta take that into consideration.
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,237
Maybe instead of blaming the party, blame Joe Manchin and primary his ass.
Lmao, do you know what the electorate in WV looks like? Manchin is the only Democrat who could have this seat.

We either have centrist Joe Manchin, or a hardcore conservative like KY's Rand Paul and Mitch McConnell.
 

MrHedin

Member
Dec 7, 2018
6,815
Or just maybe that's the messaging you need in order to win the two seats you need in a state that usually votes hard Republican to in order try to keep people from thinking they need a Republican Senate to check Biden.
 

Dodongo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,462
It's Manchin. We are lucky to even have a "Democrat" as Senator in WV.

Trying to primary him would be exceedingly stupid.
 

Deleted member 7572

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,041
Maybe next cycle the party can provide actual support to the 'WV Can't Wait' candidates that we put forth and overperformed polls. And maybe Manchin can stay the fuck out of endorsing a primary candidate in the gubernatorial race.
 

TraBuch

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
499
Joe Manchin is about as progressive a senator as you'll ever get in West Virginia.
 

Lord Fanny

Banned
Apr 25, 2020
25,953
Manchin is not the only democrat to blame progressive ideas for being bad optics. There are quite a lot of them.

He's not, but I think highlighting him in this case is kind of pointless to what you're trying to say. He would have said this, and probably did, before this election. I mean, you aren't wrong or anything, but it's just this dude has been on the wrong of so many things all the time it's just another Tuesday for him.
 

Bebpo

Member
Feb 4, 2018
4,574
And then his seat would go to a Republican.

Ok, good point. Yeah I don't know what the answer is. Maybe just have Manchin keep his mouth shut at all times and vote in line when actually needed.

I agree that him talking and saying stuff like this only hurts the voting morale for democrats.
 

Replicant

Attempted to circumvent a ban with an alt
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,380
MN
Packing the court isn't even possible at this point anyway, so let's just get that out of the way.
 

Weebos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,060
He's a senator in West Virginia, what do you expect? It's a miracle he was elected as a Democrat in the first place.
 

daegan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,898
if those things come down to one vote, whether that one vote is Manchin or not, they're never gonna happen

Dems needed to win soundly. they didn't. shelve this talk and start building to try to win a majority that can survive a couple manchins in 2022
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 18944

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,944
Maybe instead of blaming the party, blame Joe Manchin and primary his ass. He's not speaking for the entire party there. GOP falls in line, Democrats unfortunately can take their own stances.

The democratic party has repeatedly tucked its tail in between its legs with the same reasoning that Manchin uses about progressive policy. We've seen this with Bernie twice, we've seen it happen in the last week where multiple democrats have come out and said that progressive policies have almost or did cost them their races.

It's not just Manchin. He isn't an exception.
 

Saucycarpdog

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,338
Even if we do take the senate, nuking the filibuster was always going to be an uphill battle. Some democrats (especially those in red districts) still follow the old tradition of working with the other party even if the other party won't do the same.
 

Link

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,623
Not that I agree with Manchin saying it, but what exactly does that have to do with losing the Georgia Senate races?

Maybe instead of blaming the party, blame Joe Manchin and primary his ass. He's not speaking for the entire party there. GOP falls in line, Democrats unfortunately can take their own stances.
Jesus, you people are fucking bad at political strategy.
 

Richiek

Member
Nov 2, 2017
12,063
Manchin is not the only democrat to blame progressive ideas for being bad optics. There are quite a lot of them. We've seen this happen over and over again.

What other Democrats have besides Manchin have stated they will not vote to nuke the filibuster?

Chuck Schumer has stated that he's open to ending the filibuster if the Dems take control of the Senate.
 

antonz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,309
Winning in Deep Red Territory requires walking a thin line. You have to talk a certain way and walk a certain way to keep the general electorate happy. Manchin can say all of this stuff and he has to considering where he is from. At the end of the day he votes the way we need him too on Important shit and that is what matters.

But lets be morons instead and run a hard left candidate and primary him so Republican's can have his seat for the next 150 years
 

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,125
Sydney
Feels like Manchin is trying to tank the Democrats in the special elections so he isn't the swing vote in the Senate and thus feels no pressure.
 

Novoitus

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,139
Maybe instead of blaming the party, blame Joe Manchin and primary his ass. He's not speaking for the entire party there. GOP falls in line, Democrats unfortunately can take their own stances.
this is an insane post

the party is absolutely to blame for embracing moderate and neoliberal candidates and policies
 

SGRX

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
455
Did anyone think Manchin was going to be on board with either of those things?
 

BLEEN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,890
Manchin situation is more complicated than that.

We're lucky we have him in WV. Simply put.

Okay, maybe not lucky per se lol
 

DonnieTC

Member
Apr 10, 2019
2,360
Trump won West Virginia by almost 70 percent. It's pretty evident what views/policies are more popular over there and Manchin has always catered to those views in order to keep hold of his seat.
 

Orayn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,957
lol we are so fucking dead. Dems do nothing for two years and then lose every midterm race in 2022 and blame progressives for it.
 

Polyh3dron

Prophet of Regret
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,860
Basically Joe Manchin will be the Joe Lieberman of 2021 if the two GA runoffs both go the Dem way, which was predictable to anyone paying any attention whatsoever.

Say what you will about Cocaine Mitch, he got all his Senators to fall in line.
 

FreezePeach

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,811
Did anyone think Manchin was going to be on board with either of those things?
I mean he wasnt on board a month ago, yet people that have no clue about the details of national politics will continue to do their thing. Anyway, be glad you have Manchin. WV is blood red. People just like him there for some reason. More often than not he sides with dems.
 

lmcfigs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,091
The whole "pack the courts" thing is dead. probably forever. it's just not gonna happen without a safe dem majority.

but it also makes no sense for Manchin to back taking away the filibuster when 1. they're in the minority and 2. we still have 2 senate races left.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,978
Manchin has to say what he has to say in order to get elected in West Virginia.

He is a DINO... why the shock. I swear some don't pay attention to politics except once every 4 years.
 
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