Discussing ethnically-accurate voice casting for people of color in gaming

[Neoxon]

With the catalog of diverse characters in gaming growing, it kinda made me realize how few of those instances were for actors that are at least close to ethnically-accurate in relation to the character they're voicing. Casting choices such as Chris Tergliafera as Mohammed Avdol (not gaming, sure, but it fits the overall argument), Erica Lindbeck as Menat, Ian Sinclair as Rashid, & Laura Bailey as Nadine, while they do great in their respective roles, aren't ethnically-accurate to the characters. I understand that it's not exactly a common practice in the world of voice acting, so I thought that I should create a thread to highlight the actors & actresses of color whose castings are ethnically-accurate.

My submission for the topic would have to be Kathreen Khavari as Ms. Marvel (Kamala Khan).

Originally starting to voice Kamala in Avengers Assemble, Iranian-American actress Kathreen Khavari has quickly become Ms. Marvel's go-to voice actress in almost all forms of media since she started to voice her. All signs point to her voicing Kamala in Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3 &, going by a recent accurate leaks, she's likely to reprise her role in Marvel's Avengers (the Square-Enix game). This is great since, in my opinion, Kathreen does a fantastic job as the voice of Kamala, & I hope that she becomes synonymous with the character like Steve Blum is for Wolverine & Fred Tatasciore is for Hulk.

What about you all, what other ethnically-accurate casting choices can you recall? I'll try to include as many of them in the OP as I can. If I eventually run out of space, I'll do a thread marked post featuring the voice actors you mention. Of course, don't just make it a list either. Try to give some context for the actor/actress & the character as well as your thoughts on both. I look forward to seeing what other actors/actresses you all bring to the table.

 

[Kin5290]

How is casting a Iranian American person to play a Pakistani American person "ethnically accurate"?

An Iranian person would have as much similarity with a Pakistani person as Laura Bailey would have with a South African mercenary.

It seems like you're less concerned about ethnicity and more concerned with skin color, if "they're both brown skinned" is good enough for you.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

None come to mind, but it's always worth striving for.

How is casting a Iranian American person to play a Pakistani American person "ethnically accurate"?

An Iranian person would have as much similarity with a Pakistani person as Laura Bailey would have with a South African mercenary.

It seems like you're less concerned about ethnicity and more concerned with skin color, if "they're both brown skinned" is good enough for you.

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Based on virtually every post from you on anything remotely race-related, you don't care about this, full stop.

 

[Lady Bow]

Great idea for a topic! I also love Kathreen's voice acting for Kamala. Can't wait to play her in Ultimate Alliance 3! :D

Gotta give a shoutout to Branscombe Richmond's portrayal of Gibraltar from Apex Legends. Wholesome and funny lines, brudda!

 

[SteelBeast6Beets]

Punch Out Wii went to extreme lengths to provide characters with voice actors that match their nationalities. Like Bald Bull being voiced by a Turkish voice actor or getting an actual Spaniard to voice Don Flamenco instead of just hiring a Spanish-speaking VA and call it a day.

Hell, to the best of my knowledge they got a German VA that spoke with a Berlin accent to voice Von Kaiser.

 

[Kin5290]

None come to mind, but it's always worth striving for.


Based on virtually every post from you on anything remotely race-related, you don't care about this, full stop.

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Next thing you're going to be telling me that all East Asians are the same.

 

[MrCibb]

Cool thread. This isn't something I've ever sat down and really looked at in regards to gaming; it is true I see it discussed a lot for movies but not so much in games. I can't offer many examples but a recent two that straight away popped into my head, and I hope they're what you mean, is Rains Fall in RDR2, the Chief of a Native American tribe whom is voiced by actor Graham Greene, a Native American-Canadian actor.

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His son, Eagle Flies, is also voiced by a Native American actor in Jeremiah Bitsui.

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Both put in a great performance, especially Rains Fall who I did feel sorry for by the end.

 

[Jonathan Lanza]

Next thing you're going to be telling me that all East Asians are the same.

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What in the world are you going on about?

 

[Trisc]

I'm still very much bothered by actors like, Nolan North playing Kojo Agu in Halo 3: ODST, as well as Tom Kane as Takeo Masaki in Call of Duty Zombies. I think voice casting should always aim to match the background of the voice actor with the character. Or, at the very least, stop casting white voice actors as characters of color.

Overwatch is, based on the research I've done, very good about matching actors to their roles. Genji, Sombra, Doomfist, and Ana, to name a few.

 

[Kin5290]

What in the world are you going on about?

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That just because people have the same skin color doesn't mean they have the same ethnicity. It's not hard, dude.

 

[Deleted member 2226]

None come to mind, but it's always worth striving for.


Based on virtually every post from you on anything remotely race-related, you don't care about this, full stop.

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He's absolutely right. If you're going to insist on accurate ethnic casting for voice roles... you actually have to insist on accurate ethnic casting.

Personally I don't care about the ethnicity of the voice actors, but I think it's pretty inarguable that despite doing great jobs the gaming landscape would be better if every other voice role wasn't Nolan North, Troy Baker, John DiMaggio, or Jennifer Hale.

 

[Deleted member 47092]

Are people confusing brown people again?

 

[Kyoufu]

How the F is that an example of accurate ethnicity in casting, OP? Wtf?

 

[Deleted member 17210]

Cool thread, this isn't something I've ever sat down and really looked at so I can't offer many examples. A recent two that straight away popped into my head, and I hope they're what you mean, is Rains Fall in RDR2, the Chief of a Native American tribe whom is voiced by actor Graham Greene, a Native American-Canadian actor.

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This is a good example because his own accent is authentic to the part. I don't think matching an actor's ethnicity to a CG character is necessary since you're not seeing the actor but it often helps when it comes to accurate accents.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

What in the world are you going on about?

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Gatekeeping of what constitutes accurate casting because he doesn't actually care

He's absolutely right. If you're going to insist on accurate ethnic casting for voice roles... you actually have to insist on accurate ethnic casting.

Personally I don't care about the ethnicity of the voice actors, but I think it's pretty inarguable that despite doing great jobs the gaming landscape would be better if every other voice role wasn't Nolan North, Troy Baker, John DiMaggio, or Jennifer Hale.

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That other guy is splitting hairs to derail because he doesn't care about representation and discussions about race /ethnicity, similar to what you just said.

And having an actor who's from a country right next to another is a damn sight more accurate than having some random white va play someone of Pakistani descent. It's not all or nothing

 

[PER_Soul]

That other guy is splitting hairs to derail because he doesn't care about representation and discussions about race /ethnicity, similar to what you just said.

And having an actor who's from a country right next to another is a damn sight more accurate than having some random white va play someone of Pakistani descent. It's not all or nothing

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No its fucking not this is the same dumb ass arguments that people love to use to treat all Latin American countries as Mexicans.

 

[Untzillatx]

None come to mind, but it's always worth striving for.


Based on virtually every post from you on anything remotely race-related, you don't care about this, full stop.

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They're right though, at least in this particular topic. An Iranian and a Pakistani are not the same type of people, and you cannot have one for the other. It's disrespectful, like just using any East Asian person for portraying a Chinese person, for example.

And having an actor who's from a country right next to another is a damn sight more accurate than having some random white va play someone of Pakistani descent. It's not all or nothing.

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No, it's not, not even remotely. I'd say it's just as bad. You're being terribly reductive and dismissive. The notion that "Pakistan and Iran are neighbouring countries and both are populated by people with similar-ish skin colour, hence it's good enough" is simply ignorant, as Pakistan and Iran are completely different countries populated by completely different people.

"Brown people" is a vague and meaningless notion, a checkbox that people who don't really care for respectful representation tries to check every now and then.

It's like the countless times Hollywood uses Latin Americans to portray Spaniards, or uses Latin Americans interchangeably. "They all speak Spanish so they are all the same".

 

[Kyoufu]

Gatekeeping of what constitutes accurate casting because he doesn't actually care



That other guy is splitting hairs to derail because he doesn't care about representation and discussions about race /ethnicity, similar to what you just said.

And having an actor who's from a country right next to another is a damn sight more accurate than having some random white va play someone of Pakistani descent. It's not all or nothing

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I love white people telling me that I'm basically Pakistani even though I'm not. Thank you Spring-Loaded.

 

[Linde]

is it really ethical if they're non-union though?

/s

 

[GranddadFreeman]

Uh oh. I hope this thread doesn't go down t-

How is casting a Iranian American person to play a Pakistani American person "ethnically accurate"?

An Iranian person would have as much similarity with a Pakistani person as Laura Bailey would have with a South African mercenary.

It seems like you're less concerned about ethnicity and more concerned with skin color, if "they're both brown skinned" is good enough for you.

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Ah shit, that was quick

I don't know many voice actors as it is, let alone PoC. Don't really pay attention to that stuff but I'm going to come back to see who we could get to play the super hype black guy instead of Troy Baker

EDIT: Remembered the cast of overwatch. I feel like they did a good job there

 

[The Vathlonian]

man, I just found out that Clevland Brown is voiced by a white dude. Diverse imagery is definitely appreciated. But diverse imagery and diverse casting in games and animation would be so much better.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

I love white people telling me that I'm basically Pakistani even though I'm not. Thank you Spring-Loaded.

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Everyone's white until proven otherwise?

They're right though, at least in this particular topic. An Iranian and a Pakistani are not the same type of people, and you cannot have one for the other. It's disrespectful, like just using any East Asian person for portraying a Chinese person, for example.

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It's not as good as it should be, yet it's still still not DMCV Morrison-level of mockery, or Rockstar hiring Spanish voice actors for Red Dead.

It's not enough to dismiss the Ms Marvel casting outright, or dismiss people's concerns as merely a matter of skin color.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Japan is especially guilty of this. Almost all their characters are voiced by Japanese voice actors, even in games with an internationally diverse cast of characters (including black characters), like Street Fighter, Tekken, Soul Calibur, etc.

 

[Deleted member 14377]

 

[Qassim]

It's incredible to me that people are jumping on someone for rightly pointing out that saying an Iranian American and Pakistani American are close enough is bullshit, especially in a topic about ethnic accuracy.

I don't think matching ethnicity is necessary (although I'm sure someone from the right background could bring some added authenticity to a performance), but shit like this is insulting:

And having an actor who's from a country right next to another is a damn sight more accurate than having some random white va play someone of Pakistani descent. It's not all or nothing

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[Jimnymebob]

It's always cool if they do this, but I wouldn't say it's as necessary as it is with live action.

 

[PER_Soul]

Uh oh. I hope this thread doesn't go down t-



Ah shit, that was quick

I don't know many voice actors as it is, let alone PoC. Don't really pay attention to that stuff but I'm going to come back to see who we could get to play the super hype black guy instead of Troy Baker

EDIT: Remembered the cast of overwatch. I feel like they did a good job there

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In Overwatch you still have a Colombian actress doing a Mexican accent for Sombra; Torb, Rein and Lucio voiced by American actors without a lick of their native languages and Mercy with a hard German accent. If you personally think this is bad is up to you but this is in no way ethnically accurate.

 

[JustJavi]

And having an actor who's from a country right next to another is a damn sight more accurate than having some random white va play someone of Pakistani descent. It's not all or nothing

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I'm sorry but this argument is shit.

 

[Tom Nook Says...]

I'm not sure that ethnically accurate voice casting is always preferable. Like, I couldn't imagine anyone voicing Kratos, a Nordic character, as well as Christopher Judge, an African-American. I think voice acting lends itself to flexibility in a way that live action projects typically shouldn't dive into.

But the broader point holds merit, in that if you're going to do something like cast someone not from Spain to play a Spanish character, they should at the very least be able to speak Spanish with the kind of accent(s) you'd find in Spain. The "close enough" mindset is lazy. While I'm at it, stop having people in historical settings speak with British accents when the characters aren't from Britain.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Jamaican-American voice actor Karen Dyer voiced Elena in Street Fighter III (a Kenyan character) and Sheva Shalomar in Resident Evil 5 (a West African character).

 

[ZeroX]

Like, I couldn't imagine anyone voicing Kratos, a Nordic character, as well as Christopher Judge, an African-American.

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Kratos is what now?

 

[Qassim]

I'm not sure that ethnically accurate voice casting is always preferable. Like, I couldn't imagine anyone voicing Kratos, a Nordic character, as well as Christopher Judge, an African-American. I think voice acting lends itself to flexibility in a way that live action projects typically shouldn't dive into.

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Well, to nitpick a bit - Kratos is still Greek, he just happens to be in the Nordics now. But I don't think that invalidates your point :)

 

[Spring-Loaded]

I'm sorry but this argument is shit.

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You genuinely see it as all or nothing when we've got DMCV "white dude doing old black man imitation" voice casting going on?

Laura Bailey playing a black South African woman is a missed opportunity to cast a black woman from SA, and it's simultaneously a positive to have a black woman in a leading, playable by role. It's not good enough, and yet it's still better than no representation whatsoever.

That "no true Scotsman" argument when it comes to representation doesn't hold up.

It's incredible to me that people are jumping on someone for rightly pointing out that saying an Iranian American and Pakistani American are close enough is bullshit, especially in a topic about ethnic accuracy.

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Suggesting that people only care voice actors "being brown if their character is brown" to dismiss the topic overall is bs too. Especially if suggested by someone with questionable stances in past race threads

 

[Ababol]

I expect this thread to pop up on /r/shitamericanssay at any moment.

You are even doubling down on it.

 

[RecRoulette]

I'm pretty sure there are gaps, but I like that a lot of the casting in Overwatch.

In Overwatch you still have a Colombian actress doing a Mexican accent for Sombra; Torb, Rein and Lucio voiced by American actors without a lick of their native languages and Mercy with a hard German accent. If you personally think this is bad is up to you but this is in no way ethnically accurate.

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Yeah...some glaring holes there. Although they did add some native lines for Lucio eventually.

 

[Qassim]

Suggesting that people only care voice actors "being brown if their character is brown" to dismiss the topic overall is bs too. Especially if suggested by someone with questionable stances in past race threads

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So you respond with your own equally absurd bullshit? Why?

 

[DiipuSurotu]

I'm not sure that ethnically accurate voice casting is always preferable. Like, I couldn't imagine anyone voicing Kratos, a Nordic character, as well as Christopher Judge, an African-American. I think voice acting lends itself to flexibility in a way that live action projects typically shouldn't dive into.

But the broader point holds merit, in that if you're going to do something like cast someone not from Spain to play a Spanish character, they should at the very least be able to speak Spanish with the kind of accent(s) you'd find in Spain. The "close enough" mindset is lazy. While I'm at it, stop having people in historical settings speak with British accents when the characters aren't from Britain.

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Indeed.

 

[Harlequin]

At the end of they day, I think it mainly boils down to two factors (though, of course, there will always be edge cases and exceptions):
a) Do actors of the relevant ethnicity generally have a harder time finding gigs than actors of other ethnicities?
b) Does ethnically accurate casting lead to a higher quality end result in the case at hand?

So if, for example, you cast a white actor in the role of a black character even though white actors generally tend to have an easier time finding roles than black actors do, then it's easy to see why that might be a problem.
At the same time, if you have two casting options (of course, in a normal casting process you'll probably have more than that but just to illustrate the point), one ethnically accurate, one not, and the less ethnically accurate actor's performance would be significantly better than the accurate one's based on their acting chops or how well their voice or personality fits the character, then I think it's fair for a developer to go with the actor who'll give them the best results. A good example of that would be Kratos being voiced by a black actor.

Sometimes these two factors will be mutually exclusive and there I guess it simply needs to be decided on a case-by-case basis. I don't think that all video game casting needs to be ethnically accurate, considering an actor's appearance isn't as relevant in most games, but I do think that developers and publishers should give it some serious thought and consideration if they've got ethnic minority characters in their games.

 

[Bjones]

Just like any other job, if the actor is as good or better than the other actors at the character then sure. If not then no it should go to the better actor.

 

[Qassim]

I expect this thread to pop up on /r/shitamericanssay at any moment.

You are even doubling down on it.

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It does seem to stem from American's rather unique view on ethnicity, I posted about this a while back - kinda on topic:

Yep.

A lot of the diversity discussion around the media is very American centric. Grouping white europeans together in America is kinda the norm, trying to do that in Europe is ridiculous beyond belief. The issues of diversity (and discrimination, oppression, etc) around the world often aren't about race, they're about ethnicity. People who look similar but come from different ethnic backgrounds.

I understand why that's the case in the America, it's a fairly unique country in this regard - but it'd be nice to see a more globally representative discussion on this.

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This isn't me trying to bash Americans, I understand the perspective and I don't attribute malice to it, but it'd be nice to see people who aren't from that particularly unique situation not be shouted down for their probably more globally representative views on ethnicity.

 

[data]

Uh oh. I hope this thread doesn't go down t-



Ah shit, that was quick

I don't know many voice actors as it is, let alone PoC. Don't really pay attention to that stuff but I'm going to come back to see who we could get to play the super hype black guy instead of Troy Baker

EDIT: Remembered the cast of overwatch. I feel like they did a good job there

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I think they have a valid point though. I hate when people threads shame thinking the thread goes down when someone asks something thought provoking.

I feel that if a game has characters of a certain descent and you pick a neighbor, that's pretty insulting. Like a Chinese voice actor doing a Japanese character or Mongolian character. It's basically saying the director said close enough when it's not

 

[Spring-Loaded]

So you respond with your own equally absurd bullshit? Why?

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You think hiring a white American voice actor for a Kamal Ms. Marvel is the same as hiring a Iranian-American then.

 

[Qassim]

You think hiring a white voice actor for a Kamal Ms. Marvel is the same as hiring a Iraninian-American then.

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It may as well be, yeah. Iranian and Pakistani ethnicity are significantly different. Boiling down ethnicity to race is wildly stupid.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

It may as well be, yeah. Iranian and Pakistani ethnicity are significantly different. Boiling down race to ethnicity is stupid.

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Why do you think I'm saying they're the same? I might be missing all the high-profile casting of Pakistani-Americans (or anyone who isn't American or white) then.

 

[PER_Soul]

You think hiring a white American voice actor for a Kamal Ms. Marvel is the same as hiring a Iranian-American then.

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In the topic of ethnicity accuracy yes because they are both not Pakistani.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

I feel that if a game has characters of a certain descent and you pick a neighbor, that's pretty insulting. Like a Chinese voice actor doing a Japanese character or Mongolian character. It's basically saying the director said close enough when it's not

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What about Chinese sorcerer Shang Tsung voiced by (and modeled after) Japanese actor Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa?

 

[Busaiku]

It's great that a brown person is playing Kamala, and far preferable to a white lady, but it's not ethnically accurate.

 

[Qassim]

Why do you think I'm saying they're the same?

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I don't think you're saying they're the same, you basically said they're close enough. They're not.

 

[data]

What about Chinese sorcerer Shang Tsung voiced by (and modeled after) Japanese actor Cary-Hiroyuki Tagawa?

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With regards to the topic of ethnically accurate voice actor, yes that's also bad

 

[Spring-Loaded]

I don't think you're saying they're the same, you basically said they're close enough. They're not.

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Yeah, that's not what that post said. When it comes to hiring actors in a predominantly white/American/English hiring pool, that casting is better than no attempt whatsoever. If that seems like splitting hairs to you, then fine. You don't need to keep taking that as the core thesis of what's been said here though.