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Do you think emulating a game you never owned is justifiable under certain circumstances?

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Lant_War

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,577
Alright, let's get this out of the way:

  • If the game is available on a current platform (especially if it is PC), it's not justifiable and just good old piracy.

  • If the game is on a current platform but you don't own it (say you emulate Persona 5 and BOTW because you only have a PC) it's not justifiable and still piracy.

For example, let's take a game I'm sure has never ever been ported to any system: Crazy Drake. It's already over 20 years old, it's not sold anywhere afaik and I don't think the company that made it even exists at this point. I think emulation in this case is justified, and I'm sure most of you will agree with me since it's pretty much a case of abandonware.

However, that's one of the easy cases. Let's try with another game: Persona 3. Persona 3 is not available on any current system (although you could argue the PS3 is a current system I guess), and the only way you can play it is by getting a PS2/PS3 and either buying the game second hand or buying the PSN version.

Do you think piracy is justifiable here?

Let's take this a step further: Persona 4. Persona 4 is available on a current system (the almighty Vida) even if it's a remastered version with added content and not just the originally. However, the Vita is dead and even then, you'd be emulating the PS2 version, not this one. Would it be piracy in this case?

As for 3, I think I could understand it if you don't have a PS3. For Persona 4... I think as of right now, it's still piracy. Anyways, what I'm getting at is: what are your moral limits for emulation?
 
dlauv

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,513
Abandonware, maybe? I don't know.

Honeypot thread?
 
LimitedTimeGamer

LimitedTimeGamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
177
Personally, if there is no legal way to purchase a product and support the developers, then emulation is ok. Stuff like Japanese games that you can play in English with a fan translation.

Bahumut lagoon comes to mind, as it was only released in Japan.

However, if there is a way to buy the game, like Trails to Zero, (DLSite) then you should.
 
Daniel Westlake

Daniel Westlake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,165
Is this a sting?
You got to tell us if you're undercover
I want to see you load up this copy of Sunshine on Dolphin
 
signal

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,192
I don't think the questions in the OP body match the ownership aspect mentioned in the title that well. Is your concern about current platforms or past ownership?
 

Deleted member 26768

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,765
when i buy a game i want the money to go towards the developers, when a game is old with no current release that is not the case.
 
aisback

aisback

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,741
Here's how I see it.

Can I purchase the game new and support the developers.

If the game is out of print or not available even digitally then I would emulate it.
 
OP
OP
Lant_War

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,577
signal said:
I don't think the questions in the OP body match the ownership aspect mentioned in the title that well. Is your concern about current platforms or past ownership?
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In all cases I'm talking about games you never owned (better said, games you still own). If you own a game and there's a remaster, emulating the one you have is fine imo.
 

Kahoots

Member
Feb 15, 2018
985
My opinion is if you're emulating because you don't want to pay the asking price for the game and/or system then you're thieving, if other reasons then I'm probably ok with it.
 
Kapryov

Kapryov

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,135
Australia
This thread will be a ride.

Betas and unreleased titles are fair game, I think.
Otherwise you should rip these yourself, so you would already own the game.
 
julia crawford

julia crawford

Took the red AND the blue pills
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,271
Hell yes. Games that are not supported, and honestly all games that are not kept up to date/sold by companies should be ok to emulate and share freely.
 

Deleted member 8593

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
27,176
tenor.gif
 
MrNelson

MrNelson

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,356
Lant_War said:
Let's take this a step further: Persona 4. Persona 4 is available on a current system (the almighty Vida) even if it's a remastered version with added content and not just the originally. However, the Vita is dead and even then, you'd be emulating the PS2 version, not this one. Would it be piracy in this case?

As for 3, I think I could understand it if you don't have a PS3. For Persona 4... I think as of right now, it's still piracy. Anyways, what I'm getting at is: what are your moral limits for emulation?
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You can get a used copy of Person 3 FES for like $20

And you can get a brand new copy of Persona 4 for PS2 for under $20

But then again, if you were going to emulate them, you would also need a working PS2, so that you can dump you BIOS to use in PCSX2.
 
signal

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,192
Lant_War said:
In all cases I'm talking about games you never owned (better said, games you still own). If you own a game and there's a remaster, emulating the one you have is fine imo.
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I think at this point the piracy of "retro" titles, particularly obscure or rare or unlocalized or whatever ones is so common and basically tolerated that prior ownership is almost irrelevant. Even if a title was never owned, people will use the "this money won't go to the devs" argument to justify it anyway.

I'm fine either way. If someone thinks it is wrong or if someone thinks it is fine because the devs aren't losing money then whatever. I think there is this flawed idea that every piece of media created needs to be universally accessible at all times though.
 
OP
OP
Lant_War

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,577
MrNelson said:
You can get a used copy of Person 3 FES for like $20

And you can get a brand new copy of Persona 4 for PS2 for under $20

But then again, if you were going to emulate them, you would also need a working PS2, so that you can dump you BIOS to use in PCSX2.
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Didn't really check if you could officially buy a Persona 4 copy, sorry. That example is invalidated then.
 
Platy

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,691
Brazil
Ethically there are LOTS of way to justify piracy.

One might even say that piracy is justifiable in poorer countries/regions that would not have money to buy the game anyway so it is not like you were loosing a customer. AND you win a dude who likes your brand so if they manage to have money to buy it later the chances are they will be loyal to said brand.

But yeah it is a complex issue.
 
signal

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,192
Platy said:
Ethically there are LOTS of way to justify piracy.

One might even say that piracy is justifiable in poorer countries/regions that would not have money to buy the game anyway so it is not like you were loosing a customer. AND you win a dude who likes your brand so if they manage to have money to buy it later the chances are they will be loyal to said brand.

But yeah it is a complex issue.
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Why would this only be in poorer countries and not just anyone who is poor? The justification can be extended almost indefinitely.
 
OP
OP
Lant_War

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,577
Platy said:
Ethically there are LOTS of way to justify piracy.

One might even say that piracy is justifiable in poorer countries/regions that would not have money to buy the game anyway so it is not like you were loosing a customer. AND you win a dude who likes your brand so if they manage to have money to buy it later the chances are they will be loyal to said brand.
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That's actually exactly what happened to me (to be fair, as a kid / teen I wasn't really aware they were pirate games, since original games were so rare where I live), but this isn't really what I'm talking about here.
 
Swift_Gamer

Swift_Gamer

Banned
Dec 14, 2018
3,701
Rio de Janeiro
I do, specially with Nintendo locking their legacy titles on a subscription model that doesn't even have snes titles and have so little selection of nes titles.
So I believe it's justifiable in this regard. If virtual console were still a thing, I'd be against it.
 
werezompire

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
11,358
Persona 3, 4, and 4G are all literally being sold today on the PSN so downloading & emulating those games without buying them is definitely piracy. Not being on your desired platform doesn't justify piracy.
 
QisTopTier

QisTopTier

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,717
Give me more ways to give money to the people who make the games / publish them. Otherwise I dont want your second hand garbage you are trying to make a profit off of scalpers be damned.
 
zoodoo

zoodoo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,746
Montreal
Lant_War said:
However, that's one of the easy cases. Let's try with another game: Persona 3. Persona 3 is not available on any current system (although you could argue the PS3 is a current system I guess), and the only way you can play it is by getting a PS2/PS3 and either buying the game second hand or buying the PSN version.

Let's take this a step further: Persona 4. Persona 4 is available on a current system (the almighty Vida) even if it's a remastered version with added content and not just the originally. However, the Vita is dead and even then, you'd be emulating the PS2 version, not this one. Would it be piracy in this case?
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In those 2 cases the game is still available for purchase so that is clearly piracy. you not owning the platform it is being sold on is not an excuse.
 
TubaZef

TubaZef

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,565
Brazil
Yes, if it's a hard to find game never re-released and you want to see what it's like for some reason I don't see the problem. I know of a lot of indie devs that hypothetically use emulation to check for references in old games.

It's still illegal.
 
Orb

Orb

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,465
USA
It's justifiable under the circumstances that I want to play it.

I'm not gonna tell anyone how to live their life, that's just the truth for me.
 
Kaeden

Kaeden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,905
US
I've seen posts and threads in the past locked or banned for 'promoting piracy', isn't this pretty much doing the same thing? I mean, you can spin the reason however you want to try and validate how it should be okay, but it's still not, right?
 

Deleted member 46598

Banned
Aug 11, 2018
175
This isn't specific to emulation.

Stealing a game you don't own more or less the morality of what you feel personally, so in any circumstance, absolutely.

In any circumstance stealing out of print media is not an issue at all. No one is profiting means it's at least how I see it, free anyway since the only person getting any money isn't the creative or publishing team.
 
Jawmuncher

Jawmuncher

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