Do you think era's hatred of Japanese media and game's has gotten to a point or extends from xenophobia

[AnimaRize]

I honestly wish this thread didn't need to be made but after that FFXVi thread I think it needed to.

There are a lot of times that those kind of threads pop up on era where it ends of either generalizing or stereotyping Japan to form some negative opinion, causing a lot of slightly racist takes to be honest. We then have threads that immediately dismiss a style of Japanese theatrical acting has some how lesser then western acting, or Japanese art styles are inherited worse that western inspired style. Japanese games and media here are era seems to get looked down upon on era with a lot of contempt before anything really is known about it.

Like if a game uses a japanese style anything it's immediately looked down upon on era.

Do you believe that it's gotten to a point that there is some clear xenophobia and racism involved. Because it's been starting to look like it to me every single time a thread like that pops up

 

[Neoxon]

Sadly, you're not wrong. I understand criticizing certain aspects of certain games (Ex: sexualization). But as you pointed out, it can give way to generalizations & racist rhetoric. The Japanese theatrical acting criticism in particular raised an eyebrow in the thread in question.

 

[Xenosaga]

I don't know about Xenophobia, but I can't take someone who uses "anime" artstyle in negative connotation seriously... and I see them a lot here.

 

[rochellepaws]

To be honest I'm pretty tired of hearing games described as "too anime" on era with no further explanation given.

It's not 2001 anymore, it's embarrassing to see how many people here are still so willfully ignorant about Japanese media. Particularly cringe are those who clearly have an interest in genres popular in Japan but want recommendations that cater to their misunderstandings.

 

[svacina]

I don't know about Xenophobia, but I can't take someone who uses "anime" artstyle in negative connotation seriously... and I see them a lot here.

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If you don't like thing you don't like thing.

 

[PS9]

A good portion of it just doesn't interesting me at all, and actually repels me away as creepy and offensive. Gonna try FFXIV with the Era discord peeps tho see how it goes, that game looks fun.

 

[Servbot24]

To be honest I'm pretty tired of hearing games described as "too anime" on era with no further explanation given.

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I don't think that is related to xenophobia. That is related to tropes from anime that really do exist. As an anime fan if you tell me a story is "very anime" I know exactly what you mean, regardless of what country the show was made in.

 

[Deleted member 7883]

deadass every thread involving japanese games, media, etc., devolves into xenophobic bullshit. it's definitely a problem. i don't expect anything to be done about it. how the fuck y'all gonna think terry bogard is too anime.

 

[Jonathan Lanza]

Does Era hate Japanese media?
Doesn't this place get giddy over everything even remotely Nintendo related? You've seen Smash threads.

 

[spam musubi]

There may well be some of it. However this is difficult territory to tread as the primary defense the anime/manga community goes for when criticized for sexualization of minors (which can be pretty endemic to the art form) is "it's xenophobia!" So you have to unpack things carefully here.

There is also a subtler form of racism at play here with white westerners fetishizing and appropriating Japanese culture through their consumption of the country's media.

 

[etrain911]

There are a lot of lazy criticisms from users like "Japan gonna Japan" or soft dog-whistles like that that do come across as extremely xenophobic, especially just like with western media, there are examples of manga and anime that are perfectly respectful to women.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

A good portion of it just doesn't interesting me at all, and actually repels me away as creepy and offensive.

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what are we talking about here?

 

[--R]

To be fair, there are a lot of generalizations about the whole country and their media / culture that are pretty nasty in quite a lot of threads related to Japanese media.

 

[kamineko]

I think there is a good deal of ugliness along these lines, though I haven't read the thread in question.

Really, ERA as a discourse community has issues with lazy criticism in general. A lot of these takes are pretty lazy.

I think the conversation would be more productive is this issue were characterized as something other than "Era's hatred," obviously lots of us enjoy Japanese media and games.

ERA as a whole has lots of issues but it is not a monolith.

e: also, it might be helpful to link/copy some comments so we have something concrete to talk about

 

[Deleted member 93062]

Does Era hate Japanese media?
Doesn't this place get giddy over everything even remotely Nintendo related? You've seen Smash threads.

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Yeah from my experience, it's really been the opposite. I'm curious to see what caused this thread to be created because I haven't seen anything xenophobic towards Japanese people, if anything era loves the culture/games more than any other.

 

[PS9]

what are we talking about here?

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Images of lower budget Japanese games that are just a bit disturbing for me to look at. I understand it's a different culture, it's just not for me.

 

[Linus815]

"anime bullshit" is one term being tossed around super casually, and often it's completely wrong - some people basically call anything they don't like in a japanese game "anime" far too often.

 

[Gentlemen]

What threads are we talking about here? Feels odd to have a discussion about xenophobic behavior without a concrete starting point.

 

[WestEgg]

Does Era hate Japanese media?
Doesn't this place get giddy over everything even remotely Nintendo related? You've seen Smash threads.

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Not really the same thing, especially as core Nintendo is largely designed around universal appeal.

 

[Shining Star]

To be honest I'm pretty tired of hearing games described as "too anime" on era with no further explanation given.

It's not 2001 anymore, it's embarrassing to see how many people here are still so willfully ignorant about Japanese media. Particularly cringe are those who clearly have an interest in genres popular in Japan but want recommendations that cater to their misunderstandings.

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But all the anime tropes! (no explanation what they are, why they're bad, or how they got to this conclusion.)

Basically people with very little or no experience with another country's media think it's cool to act like they know anything about it anyway because racism and feelings of superiority.

 

[Benzychenz]

What FFXIV thread are we talking about here?

 

[Hero of Legend]

It's so fucking bizarre. For the longest time I always got the impression Era as very pro-Japanese gaming. Makes sense when it's literally the birthplace of both Nintendo and PlayStation, as well as top franchises like Final Fantasy.

So why is this a thing?

 

[Deleted member 1839]

Yeah from my experience, it's really been the opposite. I'm curious to see what caused this thread to be created because I haven't seen anything xenophobic towards Japanese people, if anything era loves the culture/games more than any other.

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Pretty sure it was a recently closed FFXVI thread.

Final Fantasy XVI's performance capture and voice recording was done in English first. Japanese recording to come later News - Square Enix

This means it most likely used western actors for facial and motion captures in-game. Naoki Yoshida also emphasized the use of British English for the voice-overs. This is contrasted by FF7 Remake doing Japanese actors and voices done first, to my knowledge. I think this is a first for the...

www.resetera.com

 

[AnimaRize]

What FFXIV thread are we talking about here?

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I meant 16, fixed it

 

[DontHateTheBacon]

Like if a game uses a japanese style anything it's immediately looked down upon on era.

Do you believe that it's gotten to a point that there is some clear xenophobia and racism involved. Because it's been starting to look like it to me every single time a thread like that pops up

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What? ERA loves plenty of games with Japanese art and style.

It's not xenophobia or racism, lol. I don't like games that lean too heavily into YE OLDE ENGLISH but that doesn't mean I hate the UK?

 

[808s & Villainy]

Seems like a bit of a leap, but I do see it at times. Even I get annoyed at the blatant generalizations. For me it's more the stuff like "Oh, it's Japan so they're not where we were in representations blah blah" as if they're some country closed off from media from the outside world. That definitely veers into the realm of racism IMO.

But on the topic of "a style of Japanese theatrical acting", I'd have to agree with those people. That style of acting largely isn't how Japanese live action media is. It's with anime, which makes sense because it's an abstraction of reality so exaggerated movements are used for emphasis. That's not even Japanese exclusive as American cartoons have their own unique over-exaggerations as well. The key difference is when you keep using them as graphical fidelity becomes more real it starts looking uncanny and silly. Preferring more naturalistic acting when characters look more real isn't racist

 

[Deleted member 5086]

Yeah from my experience, it's really been the opposite. I'm curious to see what caused this thread to be created because I haven't seen anything xenophobic towards Japanese people, if anything era loves the culture/games more than any other.

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It's possible to enjoy aspects of a culture or media from a country and still be racist or xenophobic. Example: lots of anti-Black racists listen to rap and hip-hop music.

 

[Benzychenz]

I meant 16, fixed it

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Ok.

What FFXVI thread are we talking about here?

 

[dancingphlower]

I do feel like there are shades of it, similar to the "fuck China" posts that were frequently popping up in regards to issues related to the mainland government (the Blizzard thing, Devotion, etc.). Like a lot of weird baseless generalizations being thrown about as truth.

 

[KingM]

What FFXIV thread are we talking about here?

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I think it's the ff16 thread about recording English VA and MoCap first. Some posters were hoping it would mean a lack of anime mannerisms in the body language and VO.

 

[Deleted member 1839]

Ok.

What FFXVI thread are we talking about here?

Click to shrink...

Final Fantasy XVI's performance capture and voice recording was done in English first. Japanese recording to come later News - Square Enix

This means it most likely used western actors for facial and motion captures in-game. Naoki Yoshida also emphasized the use of British English for the voice-overs. This is contrasted by FF7 Remake doing Japanese actors and voices done first, to my knowledge. I think this is a first for the...

www.resetera.com

 

[Tygre]

Hatred? This place is as Japanophile as they come.

Japanese games were voted 1, 2 and 3 in GotY 2017 then 1, 2, 3 and 4 in GotY 2019. They were also significantly more represented in 2018 and 2020 than you'd find in most Western games media spaces.

Deserved criticism of certain fairly indefensible tropes that are genuinely more prevalent in Japanese media isn't xenophobia.

 

[Menome]

Nothing wrong with anime inherently. There are tropes which some people are blind to though.

These people are weeaboos.

We must unite and hunt down the weeaboos for sport.

 

[Sephzilla]

I feel like era xenophobia more pops up when it comes to China related issues. For example read any Tencent related thread and it inevitably gets a very uncomfortable vibe.

Dunking on a game that, for example, has minors dressed in scantily clad clothing isn't xenophobic though.

 

[platypotamus]

This thread title reads like "does Era's hatred of [Era's favorite stuff]..."

 

[Jonathan Lanza]

Not really the same thing, especially as core Nintendo is largely designed around universal appeal.

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What about like Ace Attorney? That's a super Japanese game that people here like and are excited for. Similarly with Shin Megami Tensei V.
I think there's a specific kind of game that people get snippy about but I wouldn't say people here hate Japanese media. It's not like Xenoblade Chronicles 2 is representative of Japan after all.

 

[Niosai]

I think it's alarming how prevalent it is here. That thread about FFXVI's localization was ridiculous to read and I was pretty shocked at how nonchalant people were about it.

 

[KillLaCam]

Some of it yeah. People making a big deal about Final Fantasy characters doing (exaggerated) gestures you'd see in Japanese things. As if every game has to completely cater to western sensibilities and mannerisms .

Some of it is reasonable though, sexualized minors and highschoolers is definitely a thing that happens. Nothing wrong or xenophobic about criticizing stuff like that.

I don't think any of it gets into full xenophobia until it's something about China though.

edit: said something too broad.
edit 2: and I'm saying the game characters are the ones doing the exaggerated things not the real people, wtf

 

[Deleted member 33120]

Lol at describing the excessive grunting and gesticulating in FFVIIR as Japanese theater acting. What a totally disingenuous example.

 

[AvianAviator]

I haven't been here very long but I've seen a good mix of people who enjoy Japanese games as well as any other game, and people who dismiss it because anime tends to casually throw around a lot of sexualization of women (underage, too) and I really can't fault people for being put off by such a thing and develop this kind of negative generalization towards anime art styles in general.

And I get being annoyed by anime mannerisms, or not wanting to get used to them, but if that's the case those kind of threads should be avoided. And people certainly shouldn't be saying rude things about users with anime avatars, or any kind of avatar.

 

[Deleted member 41520]

Seems like a bit of a leap, but I do see it at times. Even I get annoyed at the blatant generalizations. For me it's more the stuff like "Oh, it's Japan so they're not where we were in representations blah blah" as if they're some country closed off from media from the outside world. That definitely veers into the realm of racism IMO.

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I don't disagree and don't know terribly much about it, but I've literally turned off several anime series popular in Japan because there were relentless panty shots, and they even have huge problems with low marriage rates and tiny birth/population growth rates. I think it's pretty solidly true that they're not "where other places are" in terms of representation? (Along with over half the world, but still.)

 

[elPolloDiablo]

I can get why Japanese media might not appeal to someone (whether that is anime, manga or games), but why people get so worked up over it and devolve into sweeping generalizations and xenephobia is beyond me.

 

[Ferrs]

I feel like both sides are stereotyping japanese media a lot of the times tbh, not only the ones criticizing certain aspects, like when some people try to tell you how some mannerism found in games or animes are part of japanese people mannerisms.

I don't think we can tie it to xenophobia either way.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

I think it's a losing battle to try to convince someone to like media that they don't like. I think it's a waste of energy. You cannot make someone enjoy something they don't like. I also think it's probably unproductive to insinuate people who don't like certain categories of art as racist. This puts people in a pretty unfair position where they must defend themselves against a really harsh accusation for not liking the same games, shows, or aesthetics as someone else.

Like any predominantly western website there are going to be both conscious and unconscious expressions of xenophobia which should be challenged and dismantled. But centering that conversation around cartoons and video games seems really reductive to me. Liking anime or not liking is not a litmus test. Liking anime does not make you better. Not liking anime does not make you better. It's an artistic format like any other. I think it's wrong to insist people who like it or don't like it are problematic.

See the inverse of this as well: "everyone with an anime avatar is alt right."

 

[Jamaro]

I feel like this thread is making a generalization of the forum, because I had no idea this perceived hatred was a thing, and like others in this thread I thought it was quite the contrary. But being that any large collection of people like this will have many differing opinions, I'm not surprised that there are some who feel the way you describe. As to why they do I'm not sure I have much to actually say to that.

 

[AnimaRize]

Lol at describing the excessive grunting and gesticulating in FFVIIR as Japanese theater acting. What a totally disingenuous example.

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I was talking more about the comparison with the ace attorney movie



While this wasn't the exact clip that was used it was definitely an example of west vs. East acting and eastern acting being considered lesser by comparison

 

[demondance]

I feel like both sides are stereotyping japanese media a lot of the times tbh, not only the ones criticizing certain aspects. I don't think we can tie it to xenophobia either way.

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This is pretty much what I was about to say. Gamers in general have a very fraught relationship with Japanese games and Japan in general. From both people who love it and people who are condescending about it.

The existence of this thread at all implies something a bit odd is going on with how various gaming fans see themselves and each other, as well... Japanese games are big here. Certainly much bigger than many entire western genres.

That carried over from the old forum and continues here. Some people are flippantly hostile about "anime art" and things like that, of course, and it can be very annoying. But the majority by far seems to be into Japanese games in general, outside of the really pervy pandering stuff.

I was talking more about the comparison with the ace attorney movie



While this wasn't the exact clip that was used it was definitely an example of west vs. East acting and eastern acting being considered lesser by comparison

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Like, this is just comic acting. Westerners do the same thing, albeit less often in movies because comedies are in a bad spot right now.

 

[AnimeAvatar]

I mean doesn't that "criticizing female character designs" thread come with a warning not to generalize the entire country of Japan because Asian posters after a while got really uncomfortable with that shit? That should probably tell you all you need to know. But yeah a lot of old heads on the internet who are stuck in that early 2000's anime is cringe Something Awful mindset do be saying some xenophobic shit and I'm glad more people in general are noticing it.

 

[MatrixMan.exe]

It does come up, sure, and the staff here need to do a way better job at keeping it in check. However, I think it's incredibly disingenuous to pretend that these idiots are in the majority when Japanese game threads arguably generate the most traffic on this website.

Whether it's Final Fantasy, Dragon Quest, Yakuza, Souls games, NieR...I can go on for hours. Japanese game fans aren't a marginalised group on here despite a vocal handful of people still thinking it's cool to throw shade at Japanese culture.

Also want to point out that there are legitimate criticisms about the way acting, storytelling etc. is handled in Japanese media. Just like it is in UK, US and other media.

On a site note, I said this in the FF thread but I find it a little ironic that a lot of "purists" out there who will swear by Japanese VO, write off English VO by default and fight off any and all criticism can't read, speak or write the language. Japanese people don't talk or act like that in real life.

 

[Neoxon]

I feel like era xenophobia more pops up when it comes to China related issues. For example read any Tencent related thread and it inevitably gets a very uncomfortable vibe.

Dunking on a game that, for example, has minors dressed in scantily clad clothing isn't xenophobic though.

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Criticisms regarding things like objectification are 100% valid. The issue the OP speaks of is when it comes to criticizing things like how Japanese games handle acting compared to Western media.