• Light/Dark
  • Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Eastern Medicine can be very legit

Status
Not open for further replies.
Karish

Karish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,528
I'm not one of those people who thinks with the right herbs you can cure Cancer or avoid Covid, but recently I have had two chronic conditions that western medicine was failing to solve for me. Acupuncture has done wonders for one, a muscular issue, and then a specific targeted combo of very affordable herbs has been healing a lingering infection that antibiotics was not able to knock out.

I'm a believer. Again, it can't solve everything, but if you have a chronic issue, I'd encourage you to look to eastern medicine for help. I know I will in the future.

Curious what others have experienced.

Edit: I thought this video on the legitimization of Acupuncture was interesting. You might too. https://youtu.be/UhT2x_Ijwe8
 
Last edited:
offtopic

offtopic

Banned
Nov 21, 2017
2,694
Acupuncture is pure ritualistic placebo. Medical treatments are either based in evidence or they are not (acupuncture is not).
 
Westbahnhof

Westbahnhof

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
10,108
Austria
After some very disappoint dives into the workings of alternative medicine (and I wasn't alone, I remember like 90% of students leaving a lecture on Homeopathy when it turned out to be more sermon than science), I'm very skeptical of every alternative treatment that can't be scientifically explained, documented, reproduced, etc.

I'm curious what herbs helped with the infection?

In general, I'm obviously not against trying the stuff, but I've seen people disregard what they call "school medicine" in favour of stuff that ended up not helping at all. That's what I hate to see.
 
scottbeowulf

scottbeowulf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,381
United States
tenor.png
 
OP
OP
Karish

Karish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,528
offtopic said:
Acupuncture is pure ritualistic placebo. Medical treatments are either based in evidence or they are not (acupuncture is not).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There is tons of evidence that acupuncture works for many things. Most insurance covers it. I thought this was a very old school mentality to dismiss acupuncture tbh.
 
echoshifting

echoshifting

very salt heavy
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,734
The Negative Zone
I have tried many of these remedies, including acupuncture, without success. I eventually reached a point where I refuse to try things that aren't backed up by robust data, and it's just not there for acupuncture, or for many herbal remedies.
 
whatsinaname

whatsinaname

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,067
Homeopathy has told me placebos work.

Ayurveda I have never tried after I got to an age where I could make my own medical decisions. I need active ingredients to be clinically tested before I take any.
 
Westbahnhof

Westbahnhof

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
10,108
Austria
Karish said:
There is tons of evidence that acupuncture works for many things. Most insurance covers it. I thought this was a very old school mentality to dismiss acupuncture tbh.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Insurance also covers homeopathy in many place. It's business and the demand for it plays a huge part.
I'm wondering what kind of evidence you mean, for example?

whatsinaname said:
Homeopathy has told me placebos work.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Placebos are a good tool to help people heal, no doubt
 
offtopic

offtopic

Banned
Nov 21, 2017
2,694
There isn't any creditable scientific evidence that demonstrates that acupuncture is anything but a placebo. Every single reputable experiment/trial/study shows the same thing. Yes, you can find write-ups on small, poorly controlled (or uncontrolled/unblinded) trials that are completely biased that show 'it works' but that isn't science. Then again, I can find 'evidence' on the internet for all sorts of beliefs that aren't scientifically based at all.
 
Septy

Septy

Prophet of Truth
Member
Nov 29, 2017
4,082
United States
I'd love to know what herbs are better than antibiotics. Obviously there is a medical breakthrough the east has been keeping from the west.
 
IggyChooChoo

IggyChooChoo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,230
Rules for running a snake-oil con:

1) if the ailment gets better, tell the mark: "my snake oil worked!"
2) if the ailment stays the same: "my snake oil has arrested the problem!"
3) if the ailment worsens: "you need more snake oil!"
4) if the mark dies, tell the family: "he didn't follow the snake oil's instructions closely enough!"
5) When too many people get mad, move to the next town.
 
TooFriendly

TooFriendly

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,028
I'm glad you are feeling better but what you've just given is an anecdote. It's impossible to know what all the other factors are.

when put up against double blinded placebo controlled trials with a large amount of subjects, acupuncture has been shown to be completely ineffective, along with cupping, although that can actually be dangerous.

as far as the herbs go, that's more plausible because herbs can contain active chemicals/drugs.

sure 'western' medicine doesn't solve everything, but it's always improving and has managed to cure or treat an incredible array of diseases and conditions. The same cannot be said for TCM which is based on the false premise of vitalism/chi.
 
ArkhamFantasy

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,550
User warned: inflammatory medical misinformation
Doctors are trained to prescribe you a pill no matter what your issue is, despite the fact that tens of millions of people's issue can be solved with diet or exercise.

If you aren't satisfied with a doctor i'd go to a nutritionist or physical therapist before going with less traditional methods that don't have much scientific backing.
 
Zukuu

Zukuu

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,809
As supportive medicine I value some of them. The issue is that some are straight up bullshit and quackery.

Like you can two types of chiropractor, where one claims to cure cancer and whatever, and the other alleviates your pain and helps your healing and ultimately helps you.

That's the key issue, it's not monitored and not standardized, so you can just claim everything.
 
sionydus

sionydus

Member
Jan 2, 2021
1,938
West Coast, USA
It might be placebo. Even so, placebo actually works for some people. Results are results. So long as we don't completely discredit the value and worth of scientific research, I don't see why we have to condescend placebo.
 
Fhtagn

Fhtagn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,615
My understanding is that acupuncture works as well as a random distribution of needles, as in it works better than nothing, but it's a placebo.

Strange thing about the placebo effect, sometimes it really works and we don't know why. I've read of conditions where a placebo drug was half as effective as a real pill, even when the person taking it knew it was a placebo... that's counter-intuitive to say the least.
 
whatsinaname

whatsinaname

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,067
Westbahnhof said:
Placebos are a good tool to help people heal, no doubt
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...


echoshifting said:
Placebos can legitimately do wonders for certain kinds of people within a certain set of ailments
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Oh no doubt. But doctors usually make an informed decision about that.

But there's gonna be no homepathic 'doctor' who will say his prescription won't work in all cases or that his prescription should be taken with other types of medication.
 
Huey

Huey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,201
echoshifting said:
Placebos can legitimately do wonders for certain kinds of people within a certain set of ailments
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I mean the placebo effect in clinical trials - when literally nothing is being done - is often 25-30% response rate.
ArkhamFantasy said:
Doctors are trained to prescribe you a pill no matter what your issue is, despite the fact that tens of millions of people's issue can be solved with diet or exercise.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Hi I'm a physician and this is fucking nonsense.
 
offtopic

offtopic

Banned
Nov 21, 2017
2,694
sionydus said:
It might be placebo. Even so, placebo actually works for some people. Results are results. So long as we don't completely discredit the value and worth of scientific research, I don't see why we have to condescend placebo.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Because placebos can/do keep people from addressing the real problem with real, evidence-based strategies. They can get people killed.
 
afreaknamedpete

afreaknamedpete

Member
Oct 28, 2017
793
aevanhoe said:
Give us one, based on an actual scientific method.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm not a fan of accupunture for many reasons. I think it's a sham, and there's an inescapable placebo tied to it and studies coming from China so require some skepticism. But there IS decent evidence. It's all under pay wall but the Cochrane Review cites many, many meta analysis and RCT that show benefit. AAFP accepts it as a therapy for some types of pain.
 
SquirrelSaysNuts

SquirrelSaysNuts

Banned
May 15, 2018
1,898
Denmark
There are quite a few types of pain which can most easily be cured by doing nothing or stop doing what was causing you pain. If you administer placebo at the right time, it will seem like that was the solution.
accx said:
What this forum needs more of is anti science bullshit that's for sure.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Do we have a lot of anti-science here already?
...beside people not liking TLJ ;-)
 
Enthus

Enthus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,582
If it worked and had peer-reviewed research, it would just be called medicine.
 
Westbahnhof

Westbahnhof

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
10,108
Austria
whatsinaname said:
But there's gonna be no homepathic 'doctor' who will say his prescription won't work in all cases or that his prescription should be taken with other types of medication.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Funnily, homeopathic doctors here in Austria are real medical doctors, and my mom used to frequent one (she's into alternative medicine) that actually did turn away cases, supplement, seek non-homeopathic solutions sometimes etc.
She's also the one who vaccinated me against COVID yesterday, haha. It's kinda weird tbh, because I don't know how you'd end up in that position
 
ToddBonzalez

ToddBonzalez

The Pyramids? That's nothing compared to RDR2
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,530
The placebo effect is a thing. Glad it actually helped you in some way, OP.
 
DJ_Lae

DJ_Lae

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,870
Edmonton
There is debateable value in the placebo effect if you have a relatively benign condition. Not to the extent that's being charged by people performing homeopathy, chiropractic healing, cupping, acupuncture, etc, and certainly not to the point where people are skipping actual science-based medicine so someone can stick needles in their muscles or yank them an ol' Ring Dinger.
 

Deleted member 2802

Community Resetter
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
33,729
offtopic said:
Acupuncture is pure ritualistic placebo. Medical treatments are either based in evidence or they are not (acupuncture is not).
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
It's so much harder to prove that something works when there are no more masters around or you have people that are scamming the entire industry.
You can go to any college and get training in acupuncture from a dude who got a certificate from the same course. But that's not the actual thing. It's just people getting a certification from the same people but not actually knowing how to do it.
The real practitioners are almost all dead, those dudes weren't even using needles, just their hands.
Knowing the pressure points and being able to manipulate them is a completely lost art.
There's nobody left to pass the knowledge or skill on to because for every actual master there are 100,000 people with a piece of paper that says they are board certified to practice acupunture.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.