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excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,326

sc.jpeg

The major entries of the movement collected under the neologism "nicecore" have legions of supporters willing to dive in front of any ill word directed at their fave, and to do this in aggrieved, aggressive terms unbefitting the good vibes they so vocally defend (a now-deleted semi-viral tweet claimed anyone who didn't like Coda was "an empty, empty person". This niceness is ultimately used as a cudgel, proof that anyone resistant to it is a joyless misanthrope who'd rather curl up with Come and See. (Or, uh, Tarantino.) On the Community episode taking the piss out of Glee, one of the TV medium's great feats of auto-critique, a diehard asks of a non-believer, "How can you hate Glee? It literally means 'glee'!" Those unresponsive to salvos of positivism are cold-hearted snobs; those uninterested in watching at all are bad sports. There's a sour irony to watching as dozens of strangers championing the virtues of goodwill chew you out in language generally reserved for baseball game bleachers.

Again, it's hard to stand against something too ardently when it gives so many people so much, but partisans have made it a lot easier by turning preferences about art into a referendum on character. Were I inclined to meet them on these uncharitable grounds, the response would probably go something like this: the attachment to and fierce protection of niceness is a sign of weakness, of needing to be coddled as literally and directly as possible. This is to say that mandated kindness compels an equal and opposite reaction of meanness, which isn't how I prefer to live. Nice things are indeed nice, to quote a big-hearted show studied enough in its attitude to exclude itself from this trend. It's a matter of an oversized market share on the conversation for pop culture without the heft to sustain its what-we-need-right-now reputation. The online dictum about the importance of letting people like things cuts both ways, the right to dislike things every bit as sacred.

His thesis is basically these things aren't actually good because I don't like them, they're only well received because they're nice.

A key element to this is him going after Abbott Elementary for being too nice and whatever, because by in large a major criticism is that White Hollywood frequently tends to gravitate greenlight productions focused around Black trauma and suffering.

It's felt super fucking weird that he focused in on a story about deafness that casted Deaf Actors, a sitcom starring a Black Woman, and a Sci-Fi hit with a predominantly Asian cast.... and then the receipts came:

 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,050
I typed his name into google and it autofilled with "Ghostbusters 2016".
 

samred

Amico fun conversationalist
Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,586
Seattle, WA
that someone was paid to pretend that decades of American sitcoms with consistently happy sappy endings never existed
 

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
92,906
here
Abbott is a nice show with nice people, but it also has cynical moments used to great effect

hell, even his read on Glee is wrong and i didnt even like Glee

painting shows as just being about 'nice things' or 'safe' with no nuance whatsoever

what a knob
 
OP
OP
excelsiorlef

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,326
"Nicecore"?

Why does everything have to have a name?
He didn't make it up he took it from another critic who was talking about how refreshing it is to have a wide selection of feel good stuff.

www.indiewire.com

The New Wave of Nicecore: How the Dark Age of Donald Trump Is Inspiring Movies to Choose Kindness Over Conflict

From "Magic Mike XXL" to Mr. Rogers, the darkness of the modern world has inspired a growing number of films to focus on a radical kindness.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,161
He was saying that shit like it whitens teeth
 

wholahay

Member
Dec 18, 2017
708
This is really not a well done article (personally I think Ted Lasso looks corny and am not capable of mustering up even a shred of energy to care about it beyond that judgment) and I think the idea that there are any real thematic links between something like Everything Everywhere All at Once and Abbott Elementary is pretty specious

But like... do you think it maybe lends some credence his later point about fandom that in response to this article, which is kind of only mildly critical, people were incensed enough to deep dive onto his Twitter for something to discredit him over? Like I don't really find this to be an incredible deed of internet justice lol
 

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
92,906
here
But like... do you think it maybe lends some credence his later point about fandom that in response to this article, which is kind of only mildly critical, people were incensed enough to deep dive onto his Twitter for something to discredit him over? Like I don't really find this to be an incredible deed of internet justice lol
deep dive?

it takes like 5 seconds to search if someone said the n word on twitter
 

Lord Vatek

Avenger
Jan 18, 2018
21,515
This is really not a well done article (personally I think Ted Lasso looks corny and am not capable of mustering up even a shred of energy to care about it beyond that judgment) and I think the idea that there are any real thematic links between something like Everything Everywhere All at Once and Abbott Elementary is pretty specious

But like... do you think it maybe lends some credence his later point about fandom that in response to this article, which is kind of only mildly critical, people were incensed enough to deep dive onto his Twitter for something to discredit him over? Like I don't really find this to be an incredible deed of internet justice lol
Yes, truly the fault lies with the people who call the racist out and not the racist himself.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,050
Looked up his Ghostbusters article, it's actually not horrible. It's about how the movie brought out misogynists online.
 

Deleted member 11637

Oct 27, 2017
18,204
Abbott is a nice show with nice people, but it also has cynical moments used to great effect

hell, even his read on Glee is wrong and i didnt even like Glee

painting shows as just being about 'nice things' or 'safe' with no nuance whatsoever

what a knob

Much like Parks and Rec before it, Abbott focuses on professions that are at best unappreciated -- and at worst hated and demonized -- while championing selflessness and optimism within failing systems. It's a goddamn public service, which goes above and beyond simply being one of the funniest shows on TV.

This asshole couldn't even spell selflessness.

This is just a pathetic excuse for choosing to be a killjoy:
Were I inclined to meet them on these uncharitable grounds, the response would probably go something like this: the attachment to and fierce protection of niceness is a sign of weakness, of needing to be coddled as literally and directly as possible. This is to say that mandated kindness compels an equal and opposite reaction of meanness, which isn't how I prefer to live.
 

HStallion

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
62,262
Don't show this guy Joe Pera Talks With You, he might have an aneurysm from how nice it makes him feels for 15 minutes.
 

Lord Fanny

Banned
Apr 25, 2020
25,953
This is really not a well done article (personally I think Ted Lasso looks corny and am not capable of mustering up even a shred of energy to care about it beyond that judgment) and I think the idea that there are any real thematic links between something like Everything Everywhere All at Once and Abbott Elementary is pretty specious

But like... do you think it maybe lends some credence his later point about fandom that in response to this article, which is kind of only mildly critical, people were incensed enough to deep dive onto his Twitter for something to discredit him over? Like I don't really find this to be an incredible deed of internet justice lol

I think when a lot of this "mild" criticism has a very obvious pattern, no, not really
 
OP
OP
excelsiorlef

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,326
This is really not a well done article (personally I think Ted Lasso looks corny and am not capable of mustering up even a shred of energy to care about it beyond that judgment) and I think the idea that there are any real thematic links between something like Everything Everywhere All at Once and Abbott Elementary is pretty specious

But like... do you think it maybe lends some credence his later point about fandom that in response to this article, which is kind of only mildly critical, people were incensed enough to deep dive onto his Twitter for something to discredit him over? Like I don't really find this to be an incredible deed of internet justice lol

People immediately noticed he cited mostly diverse works and put their theory to the test.
 

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,967
This is really not a well done article (personally I think Ted Lasso looks corny and am not capable of mustering up even a shred of energy to care about it beyond that judgment) and I think the idea that there are any real thematic links between something like Everything Everywhere All at Once and Abbott Elementary is pretty specious

But like... do you think it maybe lends some credence his later point about fandom that in response to this article, which is kind of only mildly critical, people were incensed enough to deep dive onto his Twitter for something to discredit him over? Like I don't really find this to be an incredible deed of internet justice lol
For some reason the success of Abbott Elementary-a hit first season series by a superstar new black woman writer -has REALLY ruffled a lot of peoples feathers and they can't help but comment on it-instead of…just not saying anything and ignoring things that they don't care about.
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,157
Gentrified Brooklyn
Whew. Funny thing is as opposed to straight Fuentes looks like its the old classic hipster edgelord-ism, will claim its out of context, but not see how throwing 'Every N----- is a Star' is wrong ("It's the name of the song!") even though he was probably stroking it while typing it out
 

cvbas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,167
Brazil
For some reason the success of Abbott Elementary-a hit first season series by a superstar new black woman-has REALLY ruffled a lot of peoples feathers and they can't help but comment on it-instead of…just not saying anything and ignoring things that they don't care about.
Critics are allowed to, you know, write criticism.

You can disagree with them if you want, but "don't say anything if you dislike it" is a weird point of view.
 

Dog of Bork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,993
Texas
But like... do you think it maybe lends some credence his later point about fandom that in response to this article, which is kind of only mildly critical, people were incensed enough to deep dive onto his Twitter for something to discredit him over? Like I don't really find this to be an incredible deed of internet justice lol
Not even a tiny fucking bit
 

wholahay

Member
Dec 18, 2017
708
Yes, truly the fault lies with the people who call the racist out and not the racist himself.

This is really not what I'm saying lol

deep dive?

it takes like 5 seconds to search if someone said the n word on twitter

The act of searching is the point here more than the time or effort spent; we can call it something else if you want. I'm just not convinced "oh I bet I can get some dirt on this dude" is a proportionate or fair response to a piece of TV criticism lol. Especially when half his point is "fans of these shows tend to react very strongly to criticism." Like, yeah, apparently!
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,373
But like... do you think it maybe lends some credence his later point about fandom that in response to this article, which is kind of only mildly critical, people were incensed enough to deep dive onto his Twitter for something to discredit him over? Like I don't really find this to be an incredible deed of internet justice lol
You would perhaps have a point if they found something only mildly problematic, but dude said the n-word and all...
 

andrew

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,906
egregious to type out the name of that song when you're white.

weird other examples of sus posts? "Blacks rule" is a reference to when a racist did a really bad job staging a blm attack on his driveway, "I am not your negro" is the title of a James Baldwin documentary he's reviewing. neither of those posts are him being racist
 

JigglesBunny

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
31,137
Chicago
This is really not a well done article (personally I think Ted Lasso looks corny and am not capable of mustering up even a shred of energy to care about it beyond that judgment) and I think the idea that there are any real thematic links between something like Everything Everywhere All at Once and Abbott Elementary is pretty specious

But like... do you think it maybe lends some credence his later point about fandom that in response to this article, which is kind of only mildly critical, people were incensed enough to deep dive onto his Twitter for something to discredit him over? Like I don't really find this to be an incredible deed of internet justice lol
"I'm going to say some racist shit but don't call me racist and don't go looking for anything to get mad at me for!"
"Hey, wait a minute, you're being racist and we found other examples of you being racist!"
"AH HAH! I SPECIFICALLY WARNED YOU NOT TO! YOU'RE THE REAL PROBLEM!"

Do you really think that's how this works?
 

dennett316

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,982
Blackpool, UK
This is really not what I'm saying lol



The act of searching is the point here more than the time or effort spent; we can call it something else if you want. I'm just not convinced "oh I bet I can get some dirt on this dude" is a proportionate or fair response to a piece of TV criticism lol. Especially when half his point is "fans of these shows tend to react very strongly to criticism." Like, yeah, apparently!
You don't think that anyone could possibly have picked up on the pattern of minority starring/creating/featuring movies were the ones being criticised by this guy, and did a quick check? You don't even think that might be worth discussing or looking into?
 

Scottoest

Member
Feb 4, 2020
11,361
egregious to type out the name of that song when you're white.

weird other examples of sus posts? "Blacks rule" is a reference to when a racist did a really bad job staging a blm attack on his driveway, "I am not your negro" is the title of a James Baldwin documentary he's reviewing. neither of those posts are him being racist

Thanks for providing the actual context of those tweets. I had no idea what they were references to.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,391
This is really not what I'm saying lol



The act of searching is the point here more than the time or effort spent; we can call it something else if you want. I'm just not convinced "oh I bet I can get some dirt on this dude" is a proportionate or fair response to a piece of TV criticism lol. Especially when half his point is "fans of these shows tend to react very strongly to criticism." Like, yeah, apparently!
Frankly, I think it's very valid to react strongly to disingenuous criticism of diverse shows when said criticism comes from someone who at best could be referred to as, a diet racist.

Aka a racist.
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,052
I love how its 2022 and these chucklefucks still don't realize all the racist shit they post is out there for people to find...
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,157
Gentrified Brooklyn
This is really not what I'm saying lol



The act of searching is the point here more than the time or effort spent; we can call it something else if you want. I'm just not convinced "oh I bet I can get some dirt on this dude" is a proportionate or fair response to a piece of TV criticism lol. Especially when half his point is "fans of these shows tend to react very strongly to criticism." Like, yeah, apparently!

Ehh.

I don't think it was an internet hate mobb; Abbot Elementary isn't GOT. What happened, like what happened to me when I read the article, it felt 'off' and they searched the writer because it reads tonally odd. I get a generic critique of hardcore fandoms where they will find one thing and tear that person down for the mildest of critiques, but it's a weird fucking article imho to read in the Guardian even though they have wonky op eds
 

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,052
This is really not a well done article (personally I think Ted Lasso looks corny and am not capable of mustering up even a shred of energy to care about it beyond that judgment) and I think the idea that there are any real thematic links between something like Everything Everywhere All at Once and Abbott Elementary is pretty specious

But like... do you think it maybe lends some credence his later point about fandom that in response to this article, which is kind of only mildly critical, people were incensed enough to deep dive onto his Twitter for something to discredit him over? Like I don't really find this to be an incredible deed of internet justice lol

Guy drops the N-word and you're here moaning about "internet justice."

Fucking incredible.
 

Jakisthe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,583
This particular person and his terrible, terrrible racial perspectives aside, I can see it.

I've been told The Good Place is good because it does hard work in being, eventually, nice; I think I've heard similar things about This Is Us; I've definitely heard it about Ted Lasso. Something being realistic and then wholesome does not, in my mind, then make it good, but I've seen things start to subtly trend that such a connection *should* be enough, and I'm not sure if I like that.
 

Fat4all

Woke up, got a money tag, swears a lot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
92,906
here
This particular person and his terrible, terrrible racial perspectives aside, I can see it.

I've been told The Good Place is good because it does hard work in being, eventually, nice; I think I've heard similar things about This Is Us; I've definitely heard it about Ted Lasso. Something being realistic and then wholesome does not, in my mind, then make it good, but I've seen things start to subtly trend that such a connection *should* be enough, and I'm not sure if I like that.
The Good Place might've been the most cynical television show on television

it was great
 

Deleted member 11637

Oct 27, 2017
18,204
You don't quote rap songs.

You definitely don't quote rap songs with hard Rs.

And you absolutely don't do the above in the ancient past October 2016.
 

ResetSoul

Banned
Jul 29, 2021
1,366
Oh, literally "nice" things, not, like, prestige television.

I know I'm being reductionist and toxic positivity is absolutely a thing, but "the world isn't miserable enough" is quite an opinion to hold strongly enough to write about it professionally.
 

Jakisthe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,583
The Good Place might've been the most cynical television show on television

it was great
I watched the first season, couldn't stand it - I found it aggressively preachy, trying much too hard to be twee, and obnoxiously unrealistic - but I had heard that it eventually winds up introspective and wholesome after some time.
 

B-Dubs

That's some catch, that catch-22
General Manager
Oct 25, 2017
32,779
This is shitty, but, straight up, we don't need a thread for every single random dumbass showing their ass on Twitter. Era isn't Twitter and please stop treating it like it is.

Seriously, nobody knows who this dumbass is. There's not even a "hey, look at this guy we all talk about a lot and have a lot of threads about and look how he ain't shit" thing going on here. It's just "random dumbass shows his ass." It feels like there's no purpose here other than "Hey, lemme make sure Era gets in on the Twitter drama I saw".
 
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