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Aeleus

Aeleus

Member
Nov 29, 2018
3,111
Sawneeks said:
Aeleus; Doesn't like turm's reads list initially and then switches to 'who cares if he is scum or town, he clearly wants to be lunched and we should believe him' as a stance. I said so in the thread but they also egged monkey on to voting Stu despite not voting their themself. Felt like a scum adding gas to a fire just to watch it burn.
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If you have a look at my posts again it should be apparent that the initial one was my reason for voting him and the 'who cares if he's scum or town' was in reply to the theory that he wants to die (as in I didn't think we needed to take that into account). I replied to you about the egging on monkey comment but I assume you've just dismissed that which is fair.

Verelios said:
Has any of the new information learned changed your thoughts?
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I woke up 45 minutes ago and didn't get much sleep so the answer is I'm really not sure, I'm having a hard time comprehending this all (I think muffins claim is NAI though).
 
Aeleus

Aeleus

Member
Nov 29, 2018
3,111
I'm actually going to try and head back to dreamsville so replies might take a while. Please don't shoot me.
 
Natiko

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,279
Sorry for being busy tonight everyone. Best laid plans and all that. I'll dig in tomorrow when I wake up.

As for were I'm at - I'm still not feeling great about Malus but his contributions today have at least started to pick up just now. Kyan and Aeleus are complete no shows so far, but maybe just a time zone thing. I didn't feel bad about them yesterday, but continued silence through the timeframe where they could be shot would raise an eyebrow - still wouldn't shoot though, more a long term consideration.

Donna, Dubs, and Nin have been pretty low key this phase so far. I know Monkey is a big fan of Nin's two posts but they don't really do much for me. Blarg still isn't playing mafia unless self voting counts now.

Muffin is a walking WIFOM right now. I can't say I disagree that Zipped seems to just be going where the wind blows - Kalor, Turmoil, then Muffin.

As far as Stu I'm not opposed to leaving him, though there's a paranoid part of me that raises an eyebrow about a BP claim that gets backpedaled to specifically not work during the day. Maybe that's just standard vest stuff and I'm unaware. I'm a little hesitant to clear Kalor just from sloppiness, but I'm thinking when I take a look at vote movement tomorrow maybe we can get a bit of a better picture on if anything seems amiss which could raise or remove these two from consideration in my mind.

malus said:
This is why it is 99% impossible for you and Natiko to be Scum mates. There is no way Fran allows one Scum role to have two day shots for free.
However I'm not sure I want to clear Natiko just yet.

What makes me a bit suspicious of this role is that you get a 100% shot as well. A gunsmith is usually town for the reason you stated, but a gunsmith that keeps one gun for themselves?
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I feel like you're trying to evaluate the role as if it was designed by a gamerunner when that's not the case. Why wouldn't I want to give myself a better shot? Do you trust anyone in this game more than yourself?
 
SalvaPot

SalvaPot

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,664
Aeleus said:
I'm actually going to try and head back to dreamsville so replies might take a while. Please don't shoot me.
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You won't get shoot, Fran is sleeping so there should be like 6 good hours of mexican stand-off.


I'm also off to sleep and will probably miss the shooting since I'll probably be back in 11 hours. My recommendation should be obvious, hit stu. As for the second hit, I was sus on Natiko because how hard he was on me without even reading my stuff but since he has the gun... Anyone on the turm vote would make a good target, depending on how stu flips.

Don't hit: Sawnee, Vere, muffin. I love muffin's role and I kinda believe he made that for town just because of how wacky it is and how easy it was for muffin to reveal it in a secret chat. But I still a bit worried about the random element of his role, something about it feels iffy.

I'm off, gotta feed my bunnies first.
 
Natiko

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,279
malus said:
Sure, but why then also give a gun to somebody else?
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So I could force someone to have to take a stance, knowing their stance would connect. A large reason I came up with my role was to be able to get data, and this allows me flexibility in what form that data comes in. It's one thing for someone to take a 10% shot - it's another for it to be a 100% shot. Why claim my role at all, especially after the chaos I could have left run wild with Monkey's concerns? Why bake into my role that Monkey would be informed of the boost? If I was scum I could have instead told someone they had a 100% shot but in reality it would always kill themselves or something. I get it, whoa two kills for sure so crazy, but there's so many better ways I could have and would have gone about this if I wanted to reap chaos and be scummy.
 
Kyanrute

Kyanrute

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,629
Tomato
ooh a shootbang yaaaaaaay. ooh a shootbang in the future yaaaaaay.

It was malus who said that two boosted (think this was 100% right?) shots for scum and while masquerading as ITA is nuts. Like there was no need to claim so in the optimal case scum Natiko could've just hidden the two shots certain shots and at max gotten the mathematicians in here WIFOMing like crazy about the odds.

On the other hand two nearly similar claimed roles is an oddity and while I think I fall on the side of the crowd that was all "odd, but I am silent for now", I think Monkey is too confident in all this being town with ideas about crowdsourcing. Though a disclaimer here, not sure about the extent to which she was willing to go with that. Nevertheless, this is still about information and I think both guaranteed guns should take independent shots just so that they don't get to possibly go free when they poll the town and town votes wrong. With power comes great responsibility and I want them to act to that end.

Can both be meanies though? Really, too early to tell. For this purpose, shoot 1st, talk later.

Donna wanting me dead but then shooting Blarg tsk tsk.

I skimmed through, will read again now.
 
Kyanrute

Kyanrute

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,629
Tomato
nin, good start but needs more. a ferocious forest creature ate some of his leeway.

Stuart444 We get a second check tomorrow right?

Muffin Tell me about your idea for the role - what was the driving idea behind it, what did you want to do with it, achieve with it? I find the idea at least potentially cool as a pacifying role of some sorts. You did not seem to have the same idea, as your example of protect turning into kill is quite extreme combined with random targeting. When, where and how does town benefit from your role?
 
Kyanrute

Kyanrute

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,629
Tomato
Dr. Monkey said:
nin's entry into this game is the best I've ever seen from him and while my contrary lizard brain says "maybe that means he's scum!!" for now I'm just gonna go with liking his posts and getting a good vibe off him. I'm really surprised no one else engaged them but uh it's been an exciting week in these past couple hours so far.
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You were browsing the knife section for a bear skinning knife yesterday but when it became apparent the bear was a nin in a bear's clothing, all he needs is two posts for you to run out of the shop filled with tools of murder. D1-D2 change and it being nin and all, two posts is still little, surely you would agree?
 
nin

nin

Asked Politely
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
7,159
Good morning y'all.

Rough night yada yada let's get to work.

Reading through the tread not much has changed on the way I feel about my vote.
I still like to use it to call someone out.
empressdonna what are your thoughts and feelings regarding muffin ?

In my eyes muffin pocketed me with the honest way he acted. Even if the role is not really helpful to town does not mean that he is indeed mafia. I know that he can but for today he would not land on my "want to see gone list".

Prior commitment regarding the last day phase. I really liked the exchange salva and monkey had. First I thought it was made up but after reading though it again i threw that thought out of the window.

How do I feel about monkey and salva ?

Both post a Lot. Want to have them in the game. That's it for now. I mean they make good posts. So a no no to leave love island for now.

Going to be reading though the game again.
Give me some time i will be here for the rest of the time.


Oh and I am not going to make multiple posts at the same time. Not in the mood to clutter the thread more than it needs.
I almost forgot how active y'all can be.
 
Kyanrute

Kyanrute

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,629
Tomato
Neeks doing the "get me a townie confirmed at start". That is nice, I like. I then went to read through d1 to see how neeks read royal and:

Geno said:
Idk he's not in my chat.
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clap

Sawneeks when did the Geno chat begin in relation to D1?

And Neeks was a member of the Royal guard for sure: her Kalor case takes on a new look now and she also made that read list where she just said Royal was probs town pretty much without further reasoning. The logic is there, what is the conclusion? Trust the pair for now, re-evaluate if contradictions arise.
 
Aeleus

Aeleus

Member
Nov 29, 2018
3,111
Didn't get the sleep I wanted so you're going to have to deal with sleepy Aeleus today. This means it'll be a while before I take my shot and I might listen to arguments of who to shoot.

Better answer to this
Verelios said:
Has any of the new information learned changed your thoughts?
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Muffin role claim is NAI, I'm afraid of how quick Monkey was to start being optimistic about the towniness of the claims but that's mainly paranoia as on a case by case basis I think they're all nice enough. I think I'm starting to town lean you vere but the green check doesn't really help with that as if I was scum and I couldn't make a kingkitty arsonist I'd make some form of godfather with a verifiable role.

Question to Sawneeks because of the role hints: Is the word "director" related to your role in any way? Just say no if it isn't.
 
Blargonaut

Blargonaut

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,270
Muffin said:
To make it clear so people won't have reads on me based on conflicting information, as my role is out there anyway now:

I use my command at night, it chooses a random person besides me, that person gets their night actions reversed. I'm a bit unsure whether I want to give up all effects already, but for my role I had to make a list of nen types and how they are affected by my role.

One obvious effect: Protects kill instead, kills protect instead.
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Muffin said:
Jesus Christ, should I ask to be modkilled because I made a role in a create your own role game that might help or hurt town as town, would that make y'all feel better? I'm done answering to this shit, really. Lynch me if you want because I didnt go full power optimizing to win.
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SNy18od.gif
 
Kalor

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,836
Kyanrute said:
Cool. moves to camp leave Stu alone for now
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Would a real cop reveal that they have additional investigations? If they are town, all they've done is seal their death because while they have a vest, scum must have a strong kill. It would have been better to keep that fact hidden and reveal it tomorrow. The only benefit for Stu to reveal they can investigate multiple times right now is if they want to live another day. It doesn't help town.
 
Blargonaut

Blargonaut

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,270
Sorian did you "sacrifice" yourself to grant Stu an Investigative Power

As long as you stay dead he has the Power, is that it?
 
Muffin

Muffin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,369
Kyanrute said:
@Muffin Tell me about your idea for the role - what was the driving idea behind it, what did you want to do with it, achieve with it? I find the idea at least potentially cool as a pacifying role of some sorts. You did not seem to have the same idea, as your example of protect turning into kill is quite extreme combined with random targeting. When, where and how does town benefit from your role?
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My idea was: I want something I havent done before, and reversing the effect of night actions was one idea that came up. I then looked into that link from Fran with the list of roles and saw that "Role Reverser" is actually something that exists, without mention of it being alignment specific, and protective turning into killing being an example of effect.

I didnt want to 1:1 copy something from the list, so I added the random modifier, also because I was assuming that Fran would limit me in shots otherwise.

In hindsight I should have added that I get at least a result back of which Nen type I hit or which actions were reversed without getting the actor and the target back. Right now I dont get anything back.
 
Stuart444

Stuart444

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,079
Kalor said:
Would a real cop reveal that they have additional investigations? If they are town, all they've done is seal their death because while they have a vest, scum must have a strong kill. It would have been better to keep that fact hidden and reveal it tomorrow. The only benefit for Stu to reveal they can investigate multiple times right now is if they want to live another day. It doesn't help town.
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On the other hand, if others have vests or some other protection, strongkill aimed at me may save other strong town roles.

:)
 
Kyanrute

Kyanrute

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,629
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Kalor said:
Would a real cop reveal that they have additional investigations? If they are town, all they've done is seal their death because while they have a vest, scum must have a strong kill. It would have been better to keep that fact hidden and reveal it tomorrow. The only benefit for Stu to reveal they can investigate multiple times right now is if they want to live another day. It doesn't help town.
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In my opinion a real claimed cop should always answer that question in Stu's position with at least a suggestion that there will be more checks coming regardless of the truth of the statement. That keeps the threat two-fold and forces meanies to make a choice between a second check and a potentially sub-optimal night kill. The moment Stu claimed a check there was an implicit target on his back, keeping silent about the shots whether there are more or not will not remove that target from him. If Stu is town, his death should come soon in my experience. The onus is on scum now and I suggest we see what they do with it.
 
Kyanrute

Kyanrute

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,629
Tomato
Muffin said:
My idea was: I want something I havent done before, and reversing the effect of night actions was one idea that came up. I then looked into that link from Fran with the list of roles and saw that "Role Reverser" is actually something that exists, without mention of it being alignment specific, and protective turning into killing being an example of effect.

I didnt want to 1:1 copy something from the list, so I added the random modifier, also because I was assuming that Fran would limit me in shots otherwise.

In hindsight I should have added that I get at least a result back of which Nen type I hit or which actions were reversed without getting the actor and the target back. Right now I dont get anything back.
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You did not consider the issue that because town has more players than scum, the odds would be that you hit town more often than scum? And because people could be expected to craft roles that have very direct functions and goals - "I better use my protective doctor power on that person because they are a likely night kill target!" - your every nightly action could harm your targets considerably in both information and heads.

Had Geno not grabbed you, when and in what kind of a situation would you have been willing to claim?
 
Blargonaut

Blargonaut

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,270
Not how I would've played it

stu as an Investigator should('ve) be(en)as publicly difficult as possible to make the Mafia believe that he's not worth killing because Town's gonna do it for 'em eventually, but not so much as to have that actually happen. Scylla & Charybdis it, yeah?

What if scum has a Roleblocker? Then they could just keep him alive for meat, and conversation.

Very tragic
 
Muffin

Muffin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,369
Kyanrute said:
You did not consider the issue that because town has more players than scum, the odds would be that you hit town more often than scum? And because people could be expected to craft roles that have very direct functions and goals - "I better use my protective doctor power on that person because they are a likely night kill target!" - your every nightly action could harm your targets considerably in both information and heads.

Had Geno not grabbed you, when and in what kind of a situation would you have been willing to claim?
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Of course I considered it. Fact is, most effects arent going to be as extreme as protective turns into killing, but you seem to focus on that alone.

If thats because I only specifically outlined that effect, fine. But you should be able to infer that for most nen types the repercussions if it hits town arent that big, and can also prevent town harming town. If its important that I full claim with all effects, then say so. Generally, not you specifically.

I wouldnt have claimed unless it was necessary. So when I'm about to be lynched or people mass claim.
 
Stuart444

Stuart444

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,079
Something feels off about Blarg. Can't really articulate why but his posts are giving me bad feels.

Might just be me though but for now, Imma do this:

Vote: Blargonaut
 
Dr. Monkey

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Kyanrute said:
You were browsing the knife section for a bear skinning knife yesterday but when it became apparent the bear was a nin in a bear's clothing, all he needs is two posts for you to run out of the shop filled with tools of murder. D1-D2 change and it being nin and all, two posts is still little, surely you would agree?
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Is that not enough for me to say that I want to see more and so I'd rather see how nin develops instead of throwing him on the kill pile?
 
Kyanrute

Kyanrute

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,629
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Muffin said:
Of course I considered it. Fact is, most effects arent going to be as extreme as protective turns into killing, but you seem to focus on that alone.

If thats because I only specifically outlined that effect, fine. But you should be able to infer that for most nen types the repercussions if it hits town arent that big, and can also prevent town harming town. If its important that I full claim with all effects, then say so. Generally, not you specifically.

I wouldnt have claimed unless it was necessary. So when I'm about to be lynched or people mass claim.
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I focus on it because it is the example you gave. It also is the worst case scenario of your role going wrong and against you and your claimed faction. And just because a town-inversion is not "that big" it does not remove the fact that it likely will have a negative effect on the ability and its consequences. To accept these possibilities is not to the benefit of town. It would also not be to the benefit of town to let these things happen and then let your possible influence on them go unrevealed until later.

A wanted a ITA hold so I'll wait.
 
Dr. Monkey

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Kalor said:
Would a real cop reveal that they have additional investigations? If they are town, all they've done is seal their death because while they have a vest, scum must have a strong kill. It would have been better to keep that fact hidden and reveal it tomorrow. The only benefit for Stu to reveal they can investigate multiple times right now is if they want to live another day. It doesn't help town.
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What? Yes. If Stu claimed to have no more then I'd have probably shot him, straight up, because "oh, I have no more, just this vest, idk, believe I'm town regardless" is the scummy okay, not leaving a question mark about additional checks.

I'm trying to figure out how you're getting to this conclusion in the first place. Leaving questions about the number of checks remaining is standard.
 
Muffin

Muffin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,369
Kyanrute said:
I focus on it because it is the example you gave. It also is the worst case scenario of your role going wrong and against you and your claimed faction. And just because a town-inversion is not "that big" it does not remove the fact that it likely will have a negative effect on the ability and its consequences. To accept these possibilities is not to the benefit of town. It would also not be to the benefit of town to let these things happen and then let your possible influence on them go unrevealed until later.

A wanted a ITA hold so I'll wait.
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Then get it over with and ITA me when the pause ends. Or get Monkey to shoot me. I'm not going to keep trying to justify myself.
 
Dr. Monkey

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Yeah no I'm not shooting anyone on role only.

But Muffin, you could talk to me about some reads. Apparently I'm just gonna be up at 7 am on a Saturday for no good reason while my family sleeps. Thanks, Covid.
 
nin

nin

Asked Politely
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
7,159
meeh. not to keen to use the ITA on anyone.
It's 10% of a chance to kill someone who is probably going to be town with my luck.

I will use a better tool
The vote
 
Stuart444

Stuart444

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,079
nin said:
meeh. not to keen to use the ITA on anyone.
It's 10% of a chance to kill someone who is probably going to be town with my luck.

I will use a better tool
The vote
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It doesn't hurt to try it though, Low chance of a kill but if you're sure enough to vote for someone, you might as well try and shoot them.
 
Blargonaut

Blargonaut

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,270
I feel like Aeleus and their summarisation work is just so valuable as a running top-down view every game that I've been in with them that even if each released summary by Aeleus in a game led to such exceptional scumhunting by Town to the point that the last remainder of the Mafia is about to be uncovered in one final perfectly collated status report promised to be dropped 1st-post pre-typed beginning of that upcoming next Day by them, scum still wouldn't kill Aeleus that Night because they need to read it to confirm how they're doing
 
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