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Jan 27, 2019
16,073
Fuck off

Plagued by storytelling issues and accidentally undermining its own themes, Terminator 2: Judgment Day set an unfortunate precedent for the franchise.

Terminator 2: Judgment Day remains one of the most popular movies of all time. When it was released in 1991, James Cameron's sequel to The Terminator was the most expensive movie ever made and was easily the highest-grossing film of that year, as well as the most rented movie after its release on VHS and LaserDisc. But its cultural impact lasted much longer than that single year, as Arnold Schwarzenegger immediately became the leading international movie star for more than a decade, and Cameron continued to dominate the box office with his next three blockbusters True Lies, Titanic and Avatar. This cultural behemoth seems like an incredible sequel to celebrate if it weren't for one thing: Terminator 2 is the reason the Terminator franchise failed and could never recover.

Coming out seven years after the first film, Terminator 2 at first seems like a worthy next step in the franchise. With its mix of returning characters and new faces, bigger action set pieces and an upgraded villain thanks to a super slick CGI, the sequel seems to check off all the right boxes. Yet, there are some truly embarrassing changes that not only undermine the effectiveness of the film itself but ultimately derail a franchise before it even had time to get started.

The most noticeable and overarching shift between the two films is the wild departure in tone and pacing. 1984's The Terminator is still a paragon of filmmaking, with its tight structure, memorable scenes and perfect performances, from Schwarzenegger's near-silent menace as the T-800 to Linda Hamilton's sincere desperation and courage as Sarah Connor. There's not a second of film to cut, with a deliberate pace that successfully ratchets up the tension all the way to the final scene, as even the interludes of calm are underscored by the T-800's invincible horror that's lurking on the periphery.

Terminator 2 abandons all of that, with a tone that's hard to pin down and a pace that messily flows in starts and stops. Especially with an opening that mirrors the first film -- a pair of time travelers from the future sent to either protect or destroy a person in the present -- Terminator 2sets up a sequel that appears to continue the energy from the first, only to give audiences something entirely different. That's not to say all sequels must stay true to the original, as there are many wonderful examples of follow-ups that undermine an audience's expectations, but the problem with Terminator 2 is that this departure from tone doesn't connect with the franchise as a whole, a change as jarring as it is ineffective.

The plot of Terminator 2 is simple enough to outline in a single sentence, yet its nearly two-and-a-half-hour runtime is loaded with unneeded voice-overs and a plot that can't decide who its main character is or whether it's a heist film, action movie, family drama or buddy comedy. The best element of Terminator 2 is the introduction of the T-1000, played with mild and indifferent creepiness by Robert Patrick, but even with actually exciting scenes with this new villain, he fails to deliver in any important way as his presence isn't maintained and his terror is forgotten once he's off-screen. Perhaps after realizing they created something way too powerful, the only option Cameron had was to just exclude him from the plot, as there are entire chunks of Terminator 2 where he isn't in the movie at all.

It's hard to know whether Schwarzenegger's performance in Terminator 2 is just another casualty of the tone and pacing issues or is actually the cause of them, but either way, his transformation from silent killer to goofy step-father is hard to ignore. According to interviews, Schwarzenegger and Cameron were determined to reform the titular character into one of the good guys, both as a response to Schwarzenegger's success as an action hero since the original Terminator movie was released, as well as an opportunity to take a stand on violence. But once again, due to a confused script and an overly violent set of main characters, the gunfights and explosions actually accomplish exactly the opposite, transforming the upsetting and terrifying violence from The Terminator into meaninglessly cool violence in Terminator 2.

Violence aside, the concept of T-800 turning good isn't even a problem. There are some great examples of villains exploring those better aspects of their humanity, as seen in Star Wars' Darth Vader and Avatar: The Last Airbender's Prince Zuko. The problem is that this entire transformation is done off-screen, mentioned only through dialogue and feels entirely unearned. Especially through a marketing campaign that spoiled the twist before audiences even saw the movie, the T-800 undergoes no metaphysical journey but simply appears in Terminator 2 as a lovable, brainless goofball ready to protect an annoying little boy he was previously hellbent on killing. This would be like if Vader was seen immediately onboard the Millennium Falcon at the beginning of The Empire Strikes Back, learning how to say "We're doomed" from C-3P0.

The T-800 asks those childish questions about pain and tears that lazy filmmakers like to include as a stand-in for an actual investigation into what it means to be human, so by the end of Terminator 2, Schwarzenegger's character hasn't completed some existential breakthrough or any actual growth, but simply remains the same heartless machine who now knows how to say "Hasta la vista, baby" and give out high-fives.

One of the strangest phenomena to emerge in the wake of Terminator 2's release was to continue to define this new version of Sarah Connor as a feminist icon. If someone were to superficially glance at the character, the confusion is understandable: in an era of musclebound, gun-toting male heroes, this '90s version of Connor does seem to be a similarly tough woman warrior. However, the story Terminator 2 tells ultimately strips her of that power, a role she thoroughly earned during her first run-in with the T-800 in the '80s.

The Terminator is a perfect horror movie that uses its unsettling mix of practical gore effects and unpleasant violence to explore modern America through a feminist lens. The film's use of casual sexism, even before Sarah confronts the Terminator, displays a world where the T-800 isn't some new expression of violence but rather a more extreme version of the misogyny that already exists. Even the men who are there to protect her are threatening and dismissive toward her, hardly the heroes anyone would expect. By the end of The Terminator, all the men die, failing to protect her and allowing Sarah to learn that she can save herself.

The Sarah that emerges in Terminator 2 is entirely removed from the strong woman that ended the original film. Yes, she's ripped, shoots guns and even does pull-ups, but the story Cameron tells this time is overwhelmingly regressive. In one of her rare moments of action after teaming up with her son and the recoded T-800, she is unable to go through with the plan and breaks down sobbing while consoled and directed by her teenage son. And at the very end, taking place in a factory that is eerily similar to the ending location of the first film, Sarah Connor is powerless against the T-1000 and must be saved by the men in her life while all she can do is meekly protect her son.

Terminator 2 is a confused movie, supposedly a condemnation of male violence that makes that very thing cool and fun, and supposedly about the creative power of women with a main female character who is powerless on her own requiring an entourage of men to save her. But since Terminator 2 was wildly successful, the trajectory of the franchise was redirected to its themes and characters, making all the subsequent Terminatormovies judged on those grounds. Both Terminator 3: Rise of the Machines and Terminator Salvationexplore these similar ideas of machines with human feelings and underprepared heroes with a nuance absent from Terminator 2, yet both films are overly criticized and underappreciated simply because they are not Terminator 2.

People often have fond memories of the movies they watched as kids, and Terminator 2 certainly holds a special place in the minds of gen x and millennials, those born amidst the burgeoning heyday of home video, as well as the dawn of a new era of CGI-focused special effects. But in the 30 years since its release -- especially after the MCU, Star Wars and other franchises brought the concept of worldbuilding to the mainstream as a legitimate way to tell a story -- Terminator 2 now feels truly tragic when juxtaposed against everything that worked in The Terminator.

While some of the points he makes are valid, T1 is the better film as it's a straight up slasher film.

This reviewer seems to wilfully misunderstand or misinterpret one key thing, this idea that T2 killed the series. That's not unintentional, Cameron wrote it to conclude the story and I would agree with his original vision, the story ended with T2.

The fact there are shitty low quality sequels is just a case of Hollywood being greedy and they know the Terminator name means box office success. As far as I care there are no other films after T2, the story ended right there.
 
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sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,505
it did destroy the terminator franchise by being so good nothing that followed could live up to it :)
 

Aiqops

Member
Aug 3, 2021
13,882
CBR shits out a thousand clickbait articles generated by a machine a day.
 

Pop-O-Matic

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,896
Is this a thread where we post articles rightfully evicerating horribly overrated entries in a franchise that were actually the worst thing to happen to them? If so, then I have one for y'all...



www.bbc.com

Why The Empire Strikes Back is overrated

The general consensus is that the second in the Star Wars trilogy - released 40 years ago - is the best. In fact, it’s to blame for the franchise’s problems, writes Nicholas Barber.

This might come across as a contrarian hot take, but it seems obvious to me that the best film in the Star Wars series is, in fact, Star Wars. (I know we're supposed to call it 'A New Hope' these days, but it was called Star Wars when it came out in 1977, so that's good enough for me.) What's more, it seems obvious that The Empire Strikes Back is the source of all the franchise's problems. Whatever issues we geeks grumble about when we're discussing the numerous prequels and sequels, they can all be traced back to 1980.

Key events in Star Wars include Luke Skywalker (Mark Hamill) being knocked unconscious by a wilderness alien; Princess Leia (Carrie Fisher) being captured by Darth Vader (Dave Prowse's body paired with James Earl Jones's voice); Luke learning about the Force from a Jedi master in a remote cave; a lightsaber duel that ends badly for the good guys; a 'scoundrel' abandoning the Rebels before having a change of heart; and a protracted battle between the ranks of the Rebel Alliance and the heavily armed Empire. Switch around the order of those events, and you've got The Empire Strikes Back.

But here's where things get tricky. My grievance with The Empire Strikes Back isn't that it sticks to the winning formula established by Star Wars: that's what most sequels do, after all. My grievance is that it also betrays Star Wars, trashing so much of the good work that was done three years earlier. My un-Jedi-like anger bubbles up even before the first scene – at the beginning of the 'opening crawl' of introductory text, to be precise. "It is a dark time for the Rebellion," says this prose preamble. "Although the Death Star has been destroyed, Imperial troops have driven the Rebel forces from their hidden base and pursued them across the galaxy."

Haaaaang on a minute. "Although the Death Star has been destroyed"? "Although"? The sole aim of the heroes and heroines in Star Wars was to destroy the Death Star, a humungous planet-pulverising spaceship of crucial strategic importance to the Empire. One of their big cheeses announced that "fear of this battle station" would keep every dissenter in line. Another hailed it as "the ultimate power in the universe". But now the Rebels' demolishing of the ultimate power in the universe is waved aside with an "although"? That, frankly, is not on. And it's just the first of many instances when The Empire Strikes Back asks us to pretend that Star Wars didn't happen.

Watching Star Wars and The Empire Strikes Back one after the other is like watching a hijacking: you're seeing a juggernaut being held up and driven in another direction. You can sense that Lucas and his team aren't focusing on the current film any more – they're setting up the third part in what would now be a trilogy – and they are no longer interested in wars in the stars. Despite its title, The Empire Strikes Back is rarely about the Alliance v the Empire, it's about who is related to whom and who is in love with whom (the two sometimes overlap). It twists the saga from the political to the personal, from space opera to soap opera. Is it possible to say whether the Empire is better or worse off at the end of the film, after all that supposed striking back? Not really. None of that matters, apparently, compared to the booming declaration: "I am your father!"
 

Spring-Loaded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,904
This can conceivably be a valid take though, as "inspiring more sequels" can be (albeit, paradoxically) seen as worsening the series.

It's like how Aliens is still phenomenal, but its success both ensured the series would never return to Alien's approach, and it did everything as well as one could ever hope, meaning that all future entries could do is give answers no one wanted and up the ante in worse ways.

If anything though, it's a meta aspect of the movie that reinforces its themes—the commoditisation of the terminator series was inevitable, just like the robots taking over, but doing the best you can can never be demonised in the face of the inevitable.
 

V23

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,950
Obvious clickbait, and looks like it worked because they managed to reel OP in.
 

julia crawford

Took the red AND the blue pills
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,273
PHEW, i was almost gonna reply to some of the stuff in that review but reeled myself in before doing the damage

that was close
 
Jun 10, 2018
8,845
I don't care for the feminism takes nor the idea T2 is narratively confused in its archetypal storytelling
( it's a coming-of-age action thriller), but the penultimate takeaway of T1 being vastly superior to T2 I thoroughly agree with.

T1 already wrapped the franchise up nicely and all subsequent sequels, including T2, are inherently unneeded based on that fact alone.
 

GameOver

Member
Jan 26, 2021
1,648
Somebody tell him that the T800 from the 1st movie is not the same T800 from the 2nd.
 

Siresly

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,580
CBR shits out a thousand clickbait articles generated by a machine a day.

main-qimg-7e2f328f1a9a919aee9951f3208cf146
 

Hyun Sai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,562
Yep. When looking at the franchise, there is nothing after T2, hence it destroyed it.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,954
T1 is not superior to T2 at all, they're not even in confliuct with each other.

Like Alien and Aliens, Cameron crafted two amazing sequels that compliment the original "slasher film" genre films with genre defining action movies. It wasn't just a shift in style, both films build upon their universes with realsitc escalation based on the in-universe rules and concepts.

Both sequels fit so naturally to their original stories. The surivors aren't believed, we see how their lives are affected, then we see how the events of the original cascade. There are so many standalone films that I have imagined a perfect "what if" continuation, and both of these films delivered that beyond expectation.

When it comes to T1 and T2 specifically, I'll never understand anyone talking like either is superior. They're both genre definining films that elevate each other.

PS: not going to hate read that article.
 

dennett316

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,982
Blackpool, UK
The one thing about T2 is that the ending is a bit confused. It's a bittersweet ending for John but the future is now not set, Judgement Day is done etc.
That's an issue because it makes no sense with how John was conceived. If they truly stopped Judgement Day, then the bleak future that Reese came from wouldn't ever happen, so Reese wouldn't exist to travel through time to conceive John. People criticise T3 for it's drop and quality, but also for "ruining" the ending of T2 and the whole 'no fate but what we make' thing. Judgement Day has to happen, or John can't exist. That's the one thing Cameron kind of fucked up on.
That said, this reviewer saying that anything about T3 or Salvation were more nuanced, or in any way, better than anything in T2....I mean, that's just nonsense.
 
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