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Oct 26, 2017
20,440
I woke up this morning honestly... pretty baffled at the announcement of Persona 5 for PS4 and not Switch.

I'm not a fan of Persona 5's story at all so I wasn't going to buy it anyway if it had come to Switch, but I was annoyed by Joker's inclusion in Smash Bros since I don't like him as a character and I assumed that since he's from such whatever tier sales franchise, that this had to be promoting his game coming to Switch.

But now... doesn't look that way.

And now Joker's inclusion in Smash Bros looks so fucking weird.

Let's go over the pros and cons for Joker in Smash Bros from a brand and sales perspective.

+Joker represents SMT which is a long-running franchise even if Overwatch has outsold the entire series combined most likely.
+Joker's game sold around 2-2.5m which is... not that great and a lot worse than 2B's game, but isn't nothing.

-Joker is a character with literally no personality in that he's completely silent
-Joker uses guns
-Joker is from an infinitely less popular series than Tomb Raider, Overwatch, insert many other games here, etc
-Joker would promote SMT5... which he probably isn't in... And which probably isn't releasing for several more years.
-Joker can pursue a relationship with adults that can be viewed as him experiencing statutory rape and the game generally frames these relationships fairly positively.
-While there will probably be a female option, Joker is another default male character in which 80% of the cast is male.

I'm just... very confused why Joker was chosen over characters from more relevant and more Smash Bros fitting characters if Joker's game is never going to come to Switch. Joker was chosen by Nintendo and I just don't see any promotional or brand building logic at all. This is Sega's second or third character (depending on whether or not you count Bayonetta as a Nintendo character) while all western publishers currently have zero so it's not like they're just trying to be nice to the publisher.... This thing has me very confused.
 

sibarraz

Prophet of Regret - One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
18,106
Im not so sure if 2b is more known that joker
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,688
Brazil
1) 2B is not more famous, it is just more fappable.

2) SEGA is already in smash.

Saying that a character has no personality because he is silent is not only stupid but ignores that there are lots of silent protagonists in smash
 

RochHoch

One Winged Slayer
Member
May 22, 2018
18,900
Nintendo has a strong relationship with Atlus and thought it would be cool, plus Sega owns Atlus which probably helps. SMT has been on Nintendo consoles for a long time and Persona 5 is by far the most popular SMT game, so Joker being chosen for Atlus's character makes perfect sense.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,617
Seems like a pretty dumb move on Nintendo's part if they didn't make a deal.

They also got Ryu during the whole SFV thing so they might just not care even through they know smash promotes these franchises since they keep stuffing anime characters in there
 

Protome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,682
The whole premise of your thread is flawed given we literally don't know that Tracer and 2B won't be in Smash at some point. It's unlikely but hey, so was Joker.

We also don't know that Persona isn't coming to Switch either, just because it wasn't announced at a thing that they never said they were going to announce a Switch game at.
 

Zalman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,896
2B's game sold 50% more...

But 2B is just an example

Why Joker over Chun-li

Why Joker over Lara Croft
Chun-Li is from a franchise that is already represented in Smash. Lara Croft is from a Western IP, and while that doesn't necessarily rule her out, Sakurai has expressed interest in celebrating the Japanese side of the industry in Smash.
 

Deleted member 16657

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,198
People in this thread really acting like 2B isn't one of the most recognizable new character designs of the generation
 
OP
OP
ItWasMeantToBe19
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
Chun-Li is from a franchise that is already represented in Smash. Lara Croft is from a Western IP, and while that doesn't necessarily rule her out, Sakurai has expressed interest in celebrating the Japanese side of the industry in Smash.

Okay so

Sakurai didn't pick these characters, Nintendo did.

And Lara Croft is literally 1000x more famous than Joker.

I'm just pretty confused.
 

Jahranimo

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,011
Man just wait for the official Joker reveal in April. It's all probably tied to marketing or some shit.
 

Weebos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,060
I think it's pretty likely it will end up on Switch, but if it doesn't then I imagine they wanted an Atlus character. Joker is probably the most recognizable of current Atlus characters (aside from Jack Frost).
 

Wandu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,163
Well Nintendo has Joker and the P5 cast on 3DS with Persona Q2. That could be an inclusion as to why Joker is in Smash.
 

Zalman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,896
Okay so

Sakurai didn't pick these characters, Nintendo did.

And Lara Croft is literally 1000x more famous than Joker.

I'm just pretty confused.
Nintendo did initially choose the character, which is why I think your question is valid, but I don't think Sakurai had no say in it whatsoever. They only went through with it if he wanted to.
 
OP
OP
ItWasMeantToBe19
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
I think it's pretty likely it will end up on Switch, but if it doesn't then I imagine they wanted an Atlus character. Joker is probably the most recognizable of current Atlus characters (aside from Jack Frost).

Sure but why do they need an SMT character.

SMT5 will have to sacrifice goats to various dark gods to sell close to what Octopath Traveler did. Tressa would have been a better choice.
 

rochellepaws

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,452
Ireland
It's the most recent main character from a fan favourite series many people are fanatical for and would buy an entire dlc pack, game and system for. Comparing the kind of popularity Persona has with something like Tomb Raider is a bit silly, Tomb Raider is well known but isn't exactly a series many would cite as their favourite.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,688
Brazil
2B's game sold 50% more...

But 2B is just an example

Why Joker over Chun-li

Why Joker over Lara Croft

Street Fighter already has Ryu, Ken and Guile.

Not only has been like 2 generations since the last tomb raider game on nintendo console but you have to be REALLY special to be a western character and be in smash.


Tetris is one of the most sold games ever made and everyone knows tetris. Why not Tetrimino as a playable character?
 

Deleted member 8791

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,383
I'll be impressed if anyone comes up with a theory I can buy.

Expecting quite a few mentions of Persona Q2 though.
 

Gravidee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,359
I mean, for all we know, 2B and Tracer could still be one of or two of the other 4 unannounced DLC characters.
 

Deleted member 721

User-requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,416
i think it will come to the switch but it will take longer since it was not confirmed with royal
 

Ravenwraith

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,350
They can add cool successful games that aren't literally the most successful things in the world to Smash.

If you follow Sakurai's famitsu column he played Persona 5 and seemed touched by it. Probably just picked what he and his team felt passionate about.
 

vestan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Dec 28, 2017
24,630
imagine unironically thinking 2B is more popular and well-known than the face of modern JRPGs
 

StarStorm

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
7,599
Has Overwatch ever been on Switch? A quick google search doesn't show Nier Automata on Switch either. Joker has Persona Q2.

Yeah, 2B is more fappable, but not more popular than Joker.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Okay so

Sakurai didn't pick these characters, Nintendo did.

And Lara Croft is literally 1000x more famous than Joker.

I'm just pretty confused.
Nintendo didn't pick these characters that they don't own in a vacuum, they went to their partners to talk about who they wanted as representatives. Nintendo AND Atlus decided on Joker to represent Atlus as a company in Smash
 

Bard

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,453
I don't know, but if he ain't for promotional reasons for the supposed switch port of the game then his inclusion without that only makes me dislike it even more.
 

Revolsin

Usage of alt-account.
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,373
To be honest I don't really get it.

Some long-shot theory I can think of is that Sakurai really likes Persona and when Nintendo came in with a list of candidates for him to approve, he immediately picked that out of his love for the series.

Another one is that SMT itself doesn't have a big face so promotion for SMTV is lacking. Jack Frost is the closest and he's not too notable in the mainstream either. Joker is basically the biggest face of SMT as a whole at this point.
 

MegaXZero

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jun 21, 2018
5,079
Can we have all three, from the title, in smash? That would be an amazing season pass.

Nintendo did initially choose the character, which is why I think your question is valid, but I don't think Sakurai had no say in it whatsoever. They only went through with it if he wanted to.
He said his say was making sure the character could actually be a fighter and that Nintendo picked the characters.
 
OP
OP
ItWasMeantToBe19
Oct 26, 2017
20,440
Street Fighter already has Ryu, Ken and Guile.

Not only has been like 2 generations since the last tomb raider game on nintendo console but you have to be REALLY special to be a western character and be in smash.



Tetris is one of the most sold games ever made and everyone knows tetris. Why not Tetrimino as a playable character?

Lara Croft, 2B, Chun-li, and Tracer are not remotely comparable to L-block.

All four of those characters actually have personalities and desires which makes Joker closer to L-block than them ;)
 

345

Member
Oct 30, 2017
7,377
-Joker is a character with literally no personality in that he's completely silent

it's absurd to say joker has no personality because he's a silent protagonist. would you say the same thing about link or samus? joker has a ton of visual style and potential for attacks, which makes him a perfect smash character.
 

Ragnorok64

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,955
So are we just ignoring that Joker will be in Persona Q2 and thus will have appeared on a Nintendo console?
 

Smiles

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,897
I am no the still coming camp, because I don't believe Nintendo's relationship with Atlus is so good that they would allow something this stupid.
But since you are asking IF, my only answer is WTF? No reason would ever explain that mess to me lol
 

Ragnorok64

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,955
So are we just ignoring that Joker will be in Persona Q2 and thus will have appeared on a Nintendo console?
 
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