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mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
I just came across this video today and it is wild.

Roblox Corporation offers a platform to play, create and host games for free. So they have to make money somewhere which is perfectly fine but walk with me and ask yourself if any of this is ok.

Their theoretical minimum take for content you make and sell is 75%. (in their own corporate filings it is usually higher than that)

Their platform has very little tools in discovery. In fact the preferred method to get discovered is that you as a developer pay them for an advertising slot.
An advertising slot that you must bid on in an auction house.
Your bid is a direct payment because what you are bidding on is how frequently your ad is displayed compared to other bids for the same slot.


To convert the in game currency you get paid with for real world money you need to be paying for monthly subscription and you need a minimum of 1000 usd in your account to withdraw.


If all of that sounds ok to you. Then fine you have very different priorities than myself. But speaking for myself, if I had a kid and I knew they were making games on Roblox I would be pissed.

For starters it is just teaching them to undervalue their effort. At the bare minimum a split should be 50/50 IMO.
Secondly I see this as extremely exploitative. Over 56% of Roblox users are under the age of 13. And you can bet those older aren't that much older. If I had a kid who told me they wanted to get a part time job just to have something to bolster their allowance money I would totally discourage them from trying to make that money through Roblox and you should too regardless of how you felt about the company.


But be careful of one thing if you are going to intervene on a child over this. Find out from them their motivation to make games on Roblox. If they are doing it spend time with friends you or their parents know about then I think it is a bad idea to discourage children from developing a skill set that will pay off as they get older.


But if they are doing it reach a wider audience or to make money then you better walk them through what they (and most likely their parent's wallets) will be going through trying to utilize Roblox in such a manner.
 

Jonathan Lanza

"I've made a Gigantic mistake"
Member
Feb 8, 2019
6,816
Parents tend to get a little pissy if some dude with no kids starts telling em what to do, though this is all informative.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,969
This is right?

- Roblox takes a 75% cut of every game's earnings.
- 30% cut of every in-game player to player transaction.
- The only way to really compete to get your game notice is to bid for ad space that /might/ help.
- You get paid in Robux (in-game currency).
- Minimum withdrawal amount is $1000 (100k Robux).
- If you do reach $1000, you only get $350 due to the tax on exchanging Robux back into real world money.

This sounds absolutely disgusting...
 

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,141
I mean that sounds like a better deal than Flash gaming development where you either put your game on Newgrounds for free or paid to host it on your own website.

Were you pissed at the thousands of flash game devs? Making games isn't always about making money.
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,969
I mean that sounds like a better deal than Flash gaming development where you either put your game on Newgrounds for free or paid to host it on your own website.

Were you pissed at the thousands of flash game devs? Making games isn't always about making money.
This is not a good excuse at all.
 

Jamesac68

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,396
I mean that sounds like a better deal than Flash gaming development where you either put your game on Newgrounds for free or paid to host it on your own website.

Were you pissed at the thousands of flash game devs? Making games isn't always about making money.

Newgrounds is free. Yeah, an ad or two here and there, but that's it. Roblox is a for-profit company. That's a huge difference.
 

Deleted member 39587

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 6, 2018
2,676
You can just talk to them about how the conditions are really bad and they should temper their financial expectations (if they even have any). For a lot of them it's just a hobby like modding Minecraft or any other game - no need to ruin it for them, just be honest about your concerns and if they still want to make some games then why not...
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,894
Most parents just give their kids an iPad so they get an hour or two by themselves. I don't think they care what they are doing.

I have seen some wild things since the pandemic started. Little kids playing Roblox and watching YT literally all day.

As a parent it looks like RoBlox might have surpassed MineCraft and Fortnight in popularity.
 
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mutantmagnet

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
I mean that sounds like a better deal than Flash gaming development where you either put your game on Newgrounds for free or paid to host it on your own website.

Were you pissed at the thousands of flash game devs? Making games isn't always about making money.


First off. Pay attention to the statement I highlighted in orange.

Secondly. What Did I say in the first 3 sentences? Roblox is hosting your games for free. They give dev tools for free. They deserve to make money off of it.

In one of your two examples, a dev chooses to host their game on a server they paid for? *side eyes*

Think before you speak please.
 

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,141
First off. Pay attention to the statement I highlighted in orange.

Secondly. What Did I say in the first 3 sentences? Roblox is hosting your games for free. They give dev tools for free. They deserve to make money off of it.

In one of your two examples, a dev chooses to host their game on a server they paid for? *side eyes*

Think before you speak please.

You said you would be pissed if your kid was making Roblox games. Why?

All your points are about them not getting enough money in return.

My point is that Freeware games have been around forever and people don't always make games solely for profit. So is Roblox the problem or is it all types of Freeware?
 

pronk

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,645
I'm not sure I get what the problem is? Plenty of kids probably dream of becoming Fortnite streamers but I wouldn't stop them from playing Fortnite because of that.

Is Nintendo exploiting kids by having them build Mario Maker levels? What about Dreams?
 

astro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,969
You said you would be pissed if your kid was making Roblox games. Why?

All your points are about them not getting enough money in return.

My point is that Freeware games have been around forever and people don't always make games solely for profit. So is Roblox the problem or is it all types of Freeware?
This is needless whataboutism.

I'm not sure I get what the problem is? Plenty of kids probably dream of becoming Fortnite streamers but I wouldn't stop them from playing Fortnite because of that.

Is Nintendo exploiting kids by having them build Mario Maker levels? What about Dreams?
And this is entirely beisde the point.

Can a child play this game and have fun without worrying about this stuff? Of course.

Is it a shitty, exploitative environment for the kids who actually try to make games to be a success - something the game itself literally promises and steers then towards? Obviously, yes.
 

Damaniel

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,536
Portland, OR
I'm not sure I get what the problem is? Plenty of kids probably dream of becoming Fortnite streamers but I wouldn't stop them from playing Fortnite because of that.

Is Nintendo exploiting kids by having them build Mario Maker levels? What about Dreams?

Well, if you go by the above numbers (repeated here):

- Roblox takes a 75% cut of every game's earnings.
- 30% cut of every in-game player to player transaction.
- The only way to really compete to get your game notice is to bid for ad space that /might/ help.
- You get paid in Robux (in-game currency).
- Minimum withdrawal amount is $1000 (100k Robux).
- If you do reach $1000, you only get $350 due to the tax on exchanging Robux back into real world money.

Assume your kid makes something really cool and it makes $20k in the game. Awesome, right? Well:

- Roblox takes $15k of that off the top
- The Robux to USD conversion takes another $3250 on top of that

That leaves $1750 out of that original $20k, and that assumes that the creator didn't have to spend any of that money on advertising/visibility. That income is also taxable, though I'm not sure where kids making income falls under US tax law.

In what world is it right for a developer to take almost 90% of the gross *and* require creators to advertise their own product? It's exploitation, pure and simple.
 

pronk

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,645
And this is entirely beisde the point.

Can a child play this game and have fun without worrying about this stuff? Of course.

Is it a shitty, exploitative environment for the kids who actually try to make games to be a success - something the game itself literally promises and steers then towards? Obviously, yes.

Maybe I'm too out of touch with what Roblox is, but sure if a child was only interested in doing this as a way to earn money, it would be worth talking to them, because that would be dumb. But I'm guessing legally children can't actually withdraw real world money from this anyway?
 

Cenauru

Dragon Girl Supremacy
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,972
Jesus christ, taking advantage of kids who don't even have an idea of their self-worth yet is fucking criminal.
 
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mutantmagnet

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
You said you would be pissed if your kid was making Roblox games. Why?

All your points are about them not getting enough money in return.

My point is that Freeware games have been around forever and people don't always make games solely for profit. So is Roblox the problem or is it all types of Freeware?


How much are you worth is something we all need to think about and it behooves us as adults to be mindful of teaching children concepts like.

Even on a purely selfish level if you as a parent didn't care about your kid being exploited that company is making money off of you because your kid's biggest source of income is you until they are old enough.

That are just the financial reasons there are still other problems with Roblox beyond that. Some people (especially children) don't care about the money and only care about increasing the number of people who they socialize with. To do that you have to pay Roblox money to even attempt to do that and bidding system makes your chances of reaching people just as good as high rolling a loot box. It's the same bull shit but in a different package.

That's one of the reasons why I am encouraging to talk to them about their motivations and be careful in managing their expectations for the platform.

Also if you want to talk about the Freeware scene actually point out what went on in that scene. Are developers paying for dev tools? Are the developers encouraged to be in an environment where they have to pay in something to publish, host, advertise their content. You can't say but what about freeware without giving details about Freeware like I just gave details about Roblox. The one detail you did give didn't help your point at all and only made you look like a bad faith debater.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,974
Canada
This is right?

- Roblox takes a 75% cut of every game's earnings.
- 30% cut of every in-game player to player transaction.
- The only way to really compete to get your game notice is to bid for ad space that /might/ help.
- You get paid in Robux (in-game currency).
- Minimum withdrawal amount is $1000 (100k Robux).
- If you do reach $1000, you only get $350 due to the tax on exchanging Robux back into real world money.

This sounds absolutely disgusting...
Yes. Its been this way for years and devs get ignored when they bring it up. All the people I knew that worked on Roblox stuff quit years ago because it was obvious it was going to keep getting worse.
 
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mutantmagnet

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
I'm not sure I get what the problem is? Plenty of kids probably dream of becoming Fortnite streamers but I wouldn't stop them from playing Fortnite because of that.

Is Nintendo exploiting kids by having them build Mario Maker levels? What about Dreams?


Yeah what about Dreams? The devs have openly talked about how they could create a market place. Right now they don't have one. Neither does Mariomaker. Money is only being made off purchase of dev tools and premade content. They aren't making money off of content made by those tools.

There is nothing wrong with having dreams of making it big doing something but when money starts exchanging hands attempting to do that you need to think about what you are doing and children are much easier to exploit over that. As such a discussion is very important.


Maybe I'm too out of touch with what Roblox is, but sure if a child was only interested in doing this as a way to earn money, it would be worth talking to them, because that would be dumb. But I'm guessing legally children can't actually withdraw real world money from this anyway?
They can withdraw.

If they paid for a subscription

If they have 100,000 in game currency in their account.
 

The Shape

Member
Nov 7, 2017
5,027
Brazil
I'd be perfectly fine if my kids (which I don't have any) were creating Roblox games. Yeah, they probably wouldn't make any money or just a couple of bucks, but they're kids. It's okay. They would be creatively active, learning something and potentially choosing a career for themselves in game development if they like what they're doing.
 
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