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Inconsistencies in “Leaving Neverland” surface

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VideogameVices

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Oct 2, 2018
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"More specifically, Safechuck said he was molested from 1988 until 1992, and one of the places it happened was in Jackson's Neverland train station.
But Mike Smallcombe, Jackson's biographer, proved the station wasn't built until 1994, two years after Safechuck said the abuse stopped.

Smallcombe also secured the construction permit to back up his claims. In fact, the permit showed the approval from Santa Barbara County in California didn't come until September 1993."


"Smallcombe also questioned Wade Robson's claims, who said he was molested by Jackson in 1990 while he was left alone with the singer and his family visited the Grand Canyon.

But in 1993 when Jackson was investigated in a separate sexual abuse case of a 13-year-old boy named Jordan Chandler, Wade Robson testified that he went with his family to the Grand Canyon. And his mother Joy Robson said the same thing during her testimony and confirmed that he wasn't left behind with the singer.

"His mother Joy Robson testified under oath in a deposition in 1993/1994 in relation to the Jordie Chandler case that Wade had actually gone with them on that trip to the Grand Canyon, before the entire family returned to Neverland for the second time the following weekend,"

The other OP was locked but this is new. Friend just shared this on FB.

https://atlantablackstar.com/2019/0...ears-into-him-films-michael-jackson-accusers/

Cranster said:
Here is a better source.

https://etcanada.com/news/437246/mi...nce-challenges-leaving-neverland-accusations/
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Smallcombe asserted that James Safechuck's testimony is also untrue. Safechuck claimed in 2014 that he was abused between 1988 and 1992 in an upstairs room in Neverland's train station. The biographer has unearthed permits showing the train stain station was permitted for construction in 1993, a year after the alleged abuse concluded.

"The deficiency in Safechuck's story is this. Construction on Neverland's train station didn't start until the latter part of 1993, and it didn't open until the first part of 1994 when Safechuck was 16," he said. "So abuse in the train station wasn't possible if the abuse stopped in 1992, as he claims in his testimony, as it didn't even exist then. There's a two-year difference."
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+

https://www.complex.com/music/2019/...l-jackson-reportedly-incorrect-on-key-details

See post below where Oprah has apparently deleted all Leaving Neverland tweets
 
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Shy

Shy

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UkFMAou.gif
 
giraffereyn

giraffereyn

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Are we all going to flip right back again? We've been switching back and forth for years assuming the next piece of evidence is the final piece we need.

I didn't watch Finding Neverland, but I have been annoyed by the public perception of Michael for years.
 
Daysean

Daysean

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Nov 15, 2017
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At first I thought this was going to be some BS articles from FB, but might be something else?
 
Halbrand

Halbrand

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Cranster said:
Here is a better source.

https://etcanada.com/news/437246/mi...nce-challenges-leaving-neverland-accusations/
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"Leaving Neverland" director Dan Reed addressed the train station permit, believing Safechuck had the timetable of his abuse wrong. "Yeah, there seems to be no doubt about the station date," wrote Reed. "The date they have wrong is the end of the abuse."
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I had to reread this a few times because I couldn't believe he said this
 
CloudWolf

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For OP, the documentary is called Leaving Neverland. Finding Neverland is a movie with Johnny Depp.
 
Vern

Vern

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Haven't watched the movie but isn't pretty likely that abused children probably can't keep all the facts of things that happened 30 years ago straight? Also MJ was still sleeping with little boys, dude was a creep. Why even try to defend him?
 
FarronFox

FarronFox

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SuperBanana said:
Can we get a link to what was quoted?
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You can find various things directly on Mike Smallcombe's twitter:

https://twitter.com/mikesmallcombe1

He has been retweeting various reports there. It is interesting what Dan Reed has said on his twitter in response to him as it does go against what James Safechuck has said when things only went up to when he was 14, and if we are to now include this it would suggest things went up to when he was 16/17 and Lisa Marie was on the scene.
 
dlauv

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Vern said:
Haven't watched the movie but isn't pretty likely that abused children probably can't keep all the facts of things that happened 30 years ago straight? Also MJ was still sleeping with little boys, dude was a creep. Why even try to defend him?
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Because if you make a 4-hour documentary to exhume two old trials where the long-dead accused was acquitted - after exhaustive investigation, because there was no evidence - to change the world's mind about one of most famous men in music history, you might want to have concrete testimonies. All this does cast more doubt onto a situation that already contained reasonable doubt. I'd never say his behavior was anything close to resembling acceptable, but molestation is so far beyond the pale.
 
smuf

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There's more than a few inconsistencies in both of their stories. Given the time that has passed it's understandable, both were very young at the time.

You'd think the documentary makers would have done a better job with this though.
 
rael_fitxr

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Why would Jimmy sit there and lie about all that stuff? Do we know how much they were paid to take part in the documentary?
 
Masoyama

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Shit happened 30 years ago when they were kids. I've been absolutely convinced of certain events that happened during my childhood where Ive totally mixed up timelines. Important deaths in my family when I was young are competly mixed uo with memories I know could not have happened at the same time.
 
Listai

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Masoyama said:
Shit happened 30 years ago when they were kids. I've been absolutely convinced of certain events that happened during my childhood where Ive totally mixed up timelines. Important deaths in my family when I was young are competly mixed uo with memories I know could not have happened at the same time.
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My feelings exactly, hell I've recollected things that had actually happened to friends in my presence as if they happened to me.
 
Vern

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dlauv said:
Because if you make a 4-hour documentary to exhume two old trials where the long-dead accused was acquitted - after exhaustive investigation, because there was no evidence - to change the world's mind about one of most famous men in music history, you might want to have concrete testimonies. All this does cast more doubt onto a situation that already contained reasonable doubt. I'd never say his behavior was anything close to resembling acceptable, but molestation is so far beyond the pale.
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Yea but good luck getting "concrete testimony" from people who were adults 30 years ago, let alone molested children.
 
Subpar Scrub

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Vern said:
Haven't watched the movie but isn't pretty likely that abused children probably can't keep all the facts of things that happened 30 years ago straight?
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Yeah, some places have legislation which explicitly states that child victims of sexual assault or grooming don't have to recall specific dates or locations for their abuse.

Mostly for the purpose that a child might remember "I was abused multiple times when I visited my uncle" but can't necessarily remember those dates or who's house/location it was at.
 
duckroll

duckroll

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Oprah backtracking is somewhat interesting. Wade Robson and his family giving inaccurate and conflicting testimonies is nothing new. Child abuse is a really complex thing to "prove" sometimes when it happened decades ago when the victims were very young. We'll likely never get to the truth of the matter here unless there was some sort of actual recorded evidence left behind. MJ is dead, those speaking out about abuse have their own baggage and their families may not be acting in good faith and might not have sent them to Neverland with their best interests in mind, everything is kinda tragic about the entire history of these cases. In the end there will be people convinced that MJ did it, and there will be people who are sure that it was all made up to try and blackmail him.
 
Windrunner

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I edited the thread title with the correct name for the documentary.

Masoyama said:
Shit happened 30 years ago when they were kids. I've been absolutely convinced of certain events that happened during my childhood where Ive totally mixed up timelines. Important deaths in my family when I was young are competly mixed uo with memories I know could not have happened at the same time.
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Exactly. This is no smoking gun and it does not discredit the victims.
 
dlauv

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Vern said:
Yea but good luck getting "concrete testimony" from people who were adults 30 years ago, let alone molested children.
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Dates given could have been corroborated and verified. It's a high profile production with reputations at stake and a lot of money to potentially lose in court battles. This isn't the first time Robson had inaccuracies in his testimonies either. He had more closer to the trials.

Sinder said:
If this makes you give Michael Jackson the benefit of the doubt then you never believed the victims in the first place and always wanted to find a way to excuse pedophilia to yourself.
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I'm sorry, but what do you even know about this case that others don't? By this, you watched four hours and got understandably pissed off, but there's no smoking guns on either side.

UltraMagnus said:
Both Safechuck and Robson have lawsuits against the Jackson estate in the billions of dollars range that are in appeal. The documentary (which ever side of it you're on) should have mentioned that.
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First time I'm hearing of this. The fact they weren't taking money for the interviews was a very good look for them. Do you have a source?
 
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Sinder

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If this makes you give Michael Jackson the benefit of the doubt then you never believed the victims in the first place and always wanted to find a way to excuse pedophilia to yourself.
 
Pyramid Head

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I have never held a single doubt that Michael Jackson is anything other than the single most creepy ass kiddie fiddler I've ever seen. I didn't need the documentary to persuade me of anything, and I have concerns about anyone to whom it's not completely obvious.
What's the "evidence" here? A couple of dates were off? I'm 39 and can't pinpoint almost any event of my 20's closer than 'early twenties' or 'late twenties'.

Weak.
 
Assenzio

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Vern said:
Yea but good luck getting "concrete testimony" from people who were adults 30 years ago, let alone molested children.
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So this is the excuse for throwing random stuff in your documentary?

Good luck remembering? Ok.

Then again, just because one or two got it wrong or lied, does not mean he did not do it.
 
bye

bye

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even if you have enough cognitive dissonance to believe he didn't molest kids, you still have to grapple with the fact he's admitted to inviting them to his bed to sleep with dozens of them, which is fucking nuts
 
Sinder

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Assenzio said:
So this is the excuse for throwing random stuff in your documentary?

Good luck remembering? Ok.

Then again, just because one or two got it wrong or lied, does not mean he did not do it.
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The director is an absolute fucking irresponsible moron who should never work again, but that doesn't discredit the victims. He should have checked up on the pieces of info that were possible to be verified and he didn't.
 
hjort

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Masoyama said:
Shit happened 30 years ago when they were kids. I've been absolutely convinced of certain events that happened during my childhood where Ive totally mixed up timelines. Important deaths in my family when I was young are competly mixed uo with memories I know could not have happened at the same time.
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Came in to post pretty much the same thing. Being one or two years off about when something went down while you were a kid isn't something that should be considered enough to discredit the whole claim.
 
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