Is it time to talk about the bubble (again)?

[BossAttack]

This same shit happened in 2016, the left bubble on a certain forum was all but certain Hilary had it in the bag. No one wanted to believe an orange stained asshole could win, then he did. Cue much gnashing of teeth and hair pulling and oaths that people would not live in a bubble anymore. Yet, here we are four years later and we're back in the same position. Despite 2016, we went back to Nate Silver and poll number worship, large attention to celebrity endorsements, shouting down dissenting voices on the left, and calls for full socialist policies otherwise you're a centrist, corporate traitor.

Yet, despite EVERYTHING Trump has done he would've cake walked to victory if not for COVID-19. And hell, he still might win by the end of the day. What's worse, the putrid fuck actually made gains with every non-white voting bloc. So, is it time to burst the bubble and look inward again at some hard facts? Facts like this country is FAR more conservative (and racist) than you'd like to think.

Or do we need to double down?

 

[blue_phazon]

Democrats need to do way for for minorities. That's my takeaway

 

[DrDarkStryfe]

As long as Democrats ignore exurban and rural communities and their population, they will continue to disappoint like this. You cannot build a majority government just depending on the urban vote and supposed "minority monoliths."

 

[HStallion]

Even with the polls as they were I expected things to be neck and neck while never considering it possible for places like Texas to flip. It was Trump's night to lose, not Bidens to win in a lot of ways and that should have told you everything about how the election would play out.

 

[ItchyTasty]

People are never gonna agree on politics and USA is an incredibly conservative country, which hasn't changed since the last election and probably won't change til the next tbh.

But I think it's important to always fight for people's right to feel safe in their skin color, being able to love whoever they want and to have control over their own body. Equal rights are important no matter political alignment.

 

[Fuu]

Democrats need to do way for for minorities. That's my takeaway

Click to shrink...

Didn't Hispanics and Cubans vote en masse for Trump in Florida? It's puzzling for me considering how he talks about them.

 

[onadesertedisland]

The country has a Grand canyon sized rift that is not repairable. We're effectively two countries loosely connected and in a silent cold civil war.

We got out the most votes ever for our side, and the system is setup by the other side.

This result is not surprising, just deeply disappointing.

 

[HStallion]

Didn't Hispanics and Cubans vote en masse for Trump in Florida? It's puzzling for me considering how he talks about them.

Click to shrink...

Minorities have as many different political stances as any other group. By appealing to some you're going to potentially risk your standing with another.

 

[onadesertedisland]

Didn't Hispanics and Cubans vote en masse for Trump in Florida? It's puzzling for me considering how he talks about them.

Click to shrink...

Cubans expats apparently vote for the party that promises to punish the Castro government.

 

[BossAttack]

Didn't Hispanics and Cubans vote en masse for Trump in Florida? It's puzzling for me considering how he talks about them.

Click to shrink...

Hispanics are not a monolith and white hispanics consider themselves White.

 

[Volimar]

This same shit happened in 2016, the left bubble on a certain forum was all but certain Hilary had it in the bag. No one wanted to believe an orange stained asshole could win, then he did. Cue much gnashing of teeth and hair pulling and oaths that people would not live in a bubble anymore. Yet, here we are four years later and we're back in the same position. Despite 2016, we went back to Nate Silver and poll number worship, large attention to celebrity endorsements, shouting down dissenting voices on the left, and calls for full socialist policies otherwise you're a centrist, corporate traitor.

Yet, despite EVERYTHING Trump has done he would've cake walked to victory if not for COVID-19. And hell, he still might win by the end of the day. What's worse, the putrid fuck actually made gains with every non-white voting bloc. So, is it time to burst the bubble and look inward again at some hard facts? Facts like this country is FAR more conservative (and racist) than you'd like to think.

Or do we need to double down?

Click to shrink...

I think that's the truth of it. Even among independents and dems the lean is conservative relative to what I'd like things to be.

What's worse is that dems are likely to run to the center after squeaking this by instead of running left.

 

[Sixfortyfive]

While I still think it's a bit early to make sweeping conclusions (let's make sure the mail in ballots are actually processed), I will say this:

I never again want to be lectured about how progressive/appealing "the platform" is. As if that means anything to the voting populace. Neogaf dot com was a top 5 referrer to Hillary Clinton's campaign website, and that fact was the deserving butt of jokes made by literally everyone other than the "but the platform!" types who drone on today.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

From outside the bubble in Scotland I'll say that Biden was an awful choice of candidate. I also think that constant triangulation will always end in failure. It's not enough to not be someone else.

That said it looks like Biden will win sneak it and it's far better to ask difficult questions after a win than a loss.

 

[Lord Fanny]

People are never gonna agree on politics and USA is an incredibly conservative country, which hasn't changed since the last election and probably won't change til the next tbh.

But I think it's important to always fight for people's right to feel safe in their skin color, being able to love whoever they want and to have control over their own body. Equal rights are important no matter political alignment.

Click to shrink...

No, it's really not. It's talking points like these and those in the OP that miss the forest for the trees. The problem isn't that the USA is an 'incredibly conservative country' or that there's a bubble or whatever, it's that our elections are fundamentally rigged to give more power to certain areas and has been juiced over the last decades by the GOP to give themselves more power in those areas. Biden is the first US President to get more than 70 million votes. When it's all said and done, he's most likely going to blow out Trump in the popular vote even more than Clinton did (or at least make it comparable), but that doesn't matter in the long run, because the game is weighted towards these areas where the GOP has become laser-focused on.

 

[Desi]

People are never gonna agree on politics and USA is an incredibly conservative country, which hasn't changed since the last election and probably won't change til the next tbh.

But I think it's important to always fight for people's right to feel safe in their skin color, being able to love whoever they want and to have control over their own body. Equal rights are important no matter political alignment.

Click to shrink...

A lot of "liberal" votes are passing including a minimum wage increase, recreational drug use, LGBTQ+ people voted into office, etc. The issue is that is all local level stuff while the presidential race is nationwide and helped by 1 WI voter having the power of 3 CA voters.

Still just throw the word communist around and you know what you already going to get.

 

[Sleuth Semanticist]

Bidens policy is "practical and sensible" so it seems reasonable that Trump's wild and nonsensical promises appeal to people who feel unrequited by voting for an establishment politician.

Also idk that the Nate Silver worshippers are the same people who'd decry the corporate candidate. I may be misunderstanding that part.

 

[Fridaynightcatlady]

I definitely agree and agree in regards to, had COVID-19 not happened, Trump would have won (this is assuming he doesn't win now, but that's unlikely at this point).

I fear this as well with Era. I've found that often the ideas that are referred to as "doom-talk" or "fatalism" are silenced and not addressed properly. Era is also living in a weird detached bubble.

At this point, and seeing the election results, I'm concerned about 2024 and what other clown we'll see as candidate for the GOP.

 

[BossAttack]

No, it's really not. It's talking points like these and those in the OP that miss the forest for the trees. The problem isn't that the USA is an 'incredibly conservative country' or that there's a bubble or whatever, it's that our elections are fundamentally rigged to give more power to certain areas and has been juiced over the last decades by the GOP to give themselves more power in those areas. Biden is the first US President to get more than 70 million votes. When it's all said and done, he's most likely going to blow out Trump in the popular vote even more than Clinton did (or at least make it comparable), but that's matter in the long run, because the game is weighted towards these areas where the GOP has become laser-focused on.

Click to shrink...

The game is the game. If Dems can't win in those areas, then who's to blame?

 

[T0M]

I think there is a bubble, but I think it's more of a conservative/right-wing bubble that gets perpetuated by the constant spread of mis-information on FOX and Facebook.

We really need to do something about it. We don't see it because the algorithm knows we won't pay attention, but people are actually buying into the Deep State / Qanon crap and it's hurting our country, badly.

 

[Fatoy]

Democrats need to do way for for minorities. That's my takeaway

Click to shrink...

From an outside perspective, it looks like the democrats just naturally assume people of colour will vote for them because they have the most diverse party composition, and because the alternative is open racism. But in practice open racism has existed as an institutional problem under both governments, and diversity doesn't automatically translate into support; being relatable is not the same as having policies that people want to vote for.

 

[Rover]

I'm not convinced that COVID19 entirely slowed Trump down, because of the anti-mask 'counterculture' it whipped up and how many people are behind the idea of ignoring the pandemic and going back to normal. His approval rating throughout the pandemic did not severely change.

With that out of the way, yes, there is definitely a lot of lip service paid to working for minorities, including on this forum, without actually talking to them or listening to what they have to say. I mean that's basically the theme song of this website, but it's not a unique phenomenon.

 

[Monarch1501]

The country has a Grand canyon sized rift that is not repairable. We're effectively two countries loosely connected and in a silent cold civil war.

We got out the most votes ever for our side, and the system is setup by the other side.

This result is not surprising, just deeply disappointing.

Click to shrink...

My main takeaway of these results. But I think that's kind of a global trend, unfortunately.

 

[ItchyTasty]

No, it's really not. It's talking points like these and those in the OP that miss the forest for the trees. The problem isn't that the USA is an 'incredibly conservative country' or that there's a bubble or whatever, it's that our elections are fundamentally rigged to give more power to certain areas and has been juiced over the last decades by the GOP to give themselves more power in those areas. Biden is the first US President to get more than 70 million votes. When it's all said and done, he's most likely going to blow out Trump in the popular vote even more than Clinton did (or at least make it comparable), but that doesn't matter in the long run, because the game is weighted towards these areas where the GOP has become laser-focused on.

Click to shrink...

I guess it's just as a whole a lot more conservative in my measurements compared to my values and where I live.

 

[Lord Fanny]

The game is the game. If Dems can't win in those areas, then who's to blame?

Click to shrink...

The game is rigged. That was my whole point. In short, my point was this: it's not about the bubble or about America as a whole, it's about the fact that we're playing a game where they can win like like 2 points and we have to win, at bare minimum, 10 points. I'm not trying to make excuses for Dems, okay. I was critical of Biden and I think in general he was not a good candidate for the modern era and stand by that even if he squeaks out a win. But there's more at play here, and while I know it's easy at times like these to fall prey to these right wing talking points, the reality is that the game is just rigged in their favor and that's just something that you can't avoid.

 

[Drksage]

Here's the thing, your election system is broken.

 

[Semfry]

Shockingly "nothing will fundamentally change" and going for diet racism vs full racism is not an appealing platform

 

[LProtagonist]

I still can't help but feel... not comfortable about a Biden win being a certainty. I'm also worried about whatever sort of court fuckery Trump tries to start, even if he doesn't have a solid case he can actually bring to the Supreme Court.

 

[blue_phazon]

Didn't Hispanics and Cubans vote en masse for Trump in Florida? It's puzzling for me considering how he talks about them.

Click to shrink...

From an outside perspective, it looks like the democrats just naturally assume people of colour will vote for them because they have the most diverse party composition, and because the alternative is open racism. But in practice open racism has existed as an institutional problem under both governments, and diversity doesn't automatically translate into support; being relatable is not the same as having policies that people want to vote for.

Click to shrink...

Exactly. Democrats honestly take minorities for granted

They need to GIVE us a reason to vote for them, not just say "we're less racist"

I say "us" cause I'm a minority but I'm actually Canadian 😅

 

[Deleted member 14459]

At a minimum I hope the pundit class on Era stops worshipping the ground of the two court astrologers, Silver and Cohn - and start paying attention to ground level politics instead of painting polls and their endless scouring as meaningful "politics". The amount of shit and scorn anyone who questioned the polls faced here is frankly embarrassing.

 

[Deleted member 15240]

Is it about conservatism or is it about populism? Trump is turning out many new voters and I think that's because he's seen as a man of "the people". A large segment of American society does not trust politicians or anything they see as establishment. These people vote Trump while at the same time voting for raising the minimum wage for example. And it is clear that some minorities, especially latinos, actually feel included in the aforementioned "people". They're okay with trade wars and inhuman treatment of migrants because they feel it is done in order to protect their interests. Biden's on his way to win the most votes of any candidate ever so clearly he has his own appeal and establishment politicians don't turn everyone off but going for a more anti-establishment pick with a clear and ambitious economic message might be a better option for democrats in the future.

 

[BossAttack]

I think there is a bubble, but I think it's more of a conservative/right-wing bubble that gets perpetuated by the constant spread of mis-information on FOX and Facebook.

We really need to do something about it. We don't see it because the algorithm knows we won't pay attention, but people are actually buying into the Deep State / Qanon crap and it's hurting our country, badly.

Click to shrink...

I don't think a conservative "bubble" exists. A bubble has to do with living in your own world, divorced from reality. While Republicans are insane, they are able to effectively shape their reality to how they wish it. If they believe ANTIFA is taking over the cities and Mexicans are taking all the jobs, then they will respond as if it is real. Dems simply live in a full, alternate reality bubble that is completely divorced from "reality." All our facts are meaningless when the real world doesn't care about them.

 

[Rover]

The game is the game. If Dems can't win in those areas, then who's to blame?

Click to shrink...

The Dems winning those areas specifically means a centrist or center-right message that puts off millions of other voters.

 

[olag]

They definitely need to reach out to people of colour a lot better. That being said fuck anyone and everyone who voted for trump. Im way past giving people passss.

 

[Blader]

I don't know what forum bubbles have to do with it. It's not like any amount of more widely accepted 'doomposting' has any material effect on things. This country is just irreconcilably separated, and the geographic and educational divides that underpin our system of elections and representation makes it so that one half of the country has vastly more political power than the other half. I don't know how you fix that. The two halves of this country are drifting further and further apart and the political overrepresentation of one of those halves (more a minority than a half) means there's no incentive to turn down the temperature on things. If anything, we're poised to only become more divided.

 

[Karl2177]

As long as Democrats ignore exurban and rural communities and their population, they will continue to disappoint like this. You cannot build a majority government just depending on the urban vote and supposed "minority monoliths."

Click to shrink...

Look at the results for Iowa-4. Democrat JD Scholten refused money from the DCCC and still outraised Feenstra. He actually visited every single town in the district. He laid out what the problems were and what his positions were. Feenstra's commercials all said the same thing-"I'll protect Iowa's values and defeat the liberal mob". Feenstra never put any of his positions up on specific issues. Feenstra didn't have any town halls with citizens instead of corporations. He did 1 debate out of the dozen that were offered.

Feenstra won by almost a 2-1 margin. They weren't ignored. Politics is a football game and you are a fan born into it. Go Pack Go. Go Cyclones.

 

[Gawge]

I assume you are talking about the bubble of Era?

As if, allowing racists, xenophobes, homophobes etc... to spew stuff on here and argue with them would somehow contribute to a better election result?

The bubble is the Democrats who are blind to the idea that people want change, and despite being an incumbent Trump is seen as offering more change than the status-quo of Biden who seems to offer something between 'Not Trump' and 'Let's go back to 2008' on the ballot. That California voted Biden and Yes on Prop 22, and Florida voted Trump and for a $15 minimum wage seems to me to be the lesson the Democrats will undoubtedly refuse to learn from in this election. That's the bubble that needs breaking, even when Biden does (hopefully and seemingly) sneak this election.

 

[Poltergust]

Biden is currently winning the popular vote by a larger amount than even Obama did (being the first presidential candidate to break 70M), and is outpacing him in key states.

The reason this election is so close is because Trump voters are energized as well. Which sucks because it means this political division isn't going away anytime soon.

 

[HStallion]

I don't think a conservative "bubble" exists. A bubble has to do with living in your own world, divorced from reality. While Republicans are insane, they are able to effectively shape their reality to how they wish it. If they believe ANTIFA is taking over the cities and Mexicans are taking all the jobs, then they will respond as if it is real. Dems simply live in a full, alternate reality bubble that is completely divorced from "reality." All our facts are meaningless when the real world doesn't care about them.

Click to shrink...

I don't really agree with this. You can't talk about Dems living in a bubble and act like the GOP voter doesn't. This just comes off as defeatist and damn near implies that the things Dems do fight for and believe in are just some unicorn not with persuing because of what the right thinks.

 

[BossAttack]

I assume you are talking about the bubble of Era?

As if, allowing racists, xenophobes, homophobes etc... to spew stuff on here and argue with them would somehow contribute to a better election result?

The bubble is the Democrats who are blind to the idea that people want change, and despite being an incumbent Trump is seen as offering more change than the status-quo of Biden who seems to offer something between 'Not Trump' and 'Let's go back to 2008' on the ballot. That California voted Biden and Yes on Prop 22, and Florida voted Trump and for a $15 minimum wage seems to me to be the lesson the Democrats will undoubtedly refuse to learn from in this election. That's the bubble that needs breaking, even when Biden does (hopefully and seemingly) sneak this election.

Click to shrink...

Where the fuck did I say that?

 

[Serpens007]

No, it isn't

(Please don't create reaction threads)