Is Microsoft's problem with its first party output a lack of talents or low quality standards?

[Deleted member 36622]

Crackdown 3 is out and reviews are bad. (currently 60 on Metacritic) I'm sure people would immediately remind me the troubled development this game faced, but this is only the last one of a series of mixed / poorly reviewed exclusives from Xbox that came out this gen.

Sea of Thieves 69
State of Decay 2 66
Super Lucky's Tale 64
Recore 63
Ryse 60
...

Not to mention what happened with the cancelled projects.

I'm starting to wonder if Xbox can really turn things on their favour by simply acquiring more studios, is it really a lack of talents their problem? it seems to me that in the past 2-3 years they started putting out games regardless of their quality (in fairness Crackdown got delayed several times but that didn't help much), not sure it's because they gave up with this gen so we may see a new Microsoft with the next console or because they didn't have choices: it was either these games (the way they are) or nothing.

Going forward if they want to close the gap with Sony they need to up their game and expect basically all AAA experiences from these studios (both those they own and third parties hired for exclusive games).

 

[Apophis]

One word: budget

 

[ckareset]

A large lack of talent and a lack of budget probably go hand in hand.

Sea of Thieves will probably be what it was envisioned to be eventually though.

 

[capnjazz]

I know Xbox has always had issues courting Japanese developers, but there wasn't the same kind of generational drought on the original or 360 that the Xbox One is seeing. I really think Microsoft just stopped trying around 2015 and started focusing on next gen.

 

[SRTtoZ]

Its managerial. They need to let their developers take more chances. Gears 4, Halo 5, Forza, CD3. SAFE SAFE SAFE SAFE.

 

[Viceratops]

To be fair to Microsoft. Only one of those games was actually developed by a first party studio. I know Undead Labs is theirs now but none of those other ones besides Sea or Thieves is even developed internally.

 

[Betelgeuse]

A combination of factors including lack of budget, poor decision making, and plain bad luck.

 

[Skeeter49]

How about we also include the Xbox games that reviewed well.
Sunset Overdrive
Quantum Break
Dead Rising 3
Gears 4
Halo 5
Every Forza game
Ori

MS has had more hits than failures this gen.

 

[N.Domixis]

People say scores don't matter but they do because otherwise there wouldn't be an image problem for ms first party studios.

 

[Deleted member 3017]

To be fair to Microsoft. Only one of those games was actually developed by a first party studio. I know Undead Labs is theirs now but none of those other ones besides Sea or Thieves is even developed internally.

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I think that's kind of irrelevant. All games were funded and produced by MS. Both Sony and Nintendo have plenty of first party games that weren't developed internally as well.

 

[Betty]

Honestly? I think it's just bad luck.

 

[Imitation Of Life]

Crackdown 3 is out and reviews are bad. (currently 60 on Metacritic) I'm sure people would immediately remind me the troubled development this game faced, but this is only the last one of a series of mixed / poorly reviewed exclusives from Xbox that came out this gen.

Sea of Thieves 69
State of Decay 2 66
Super Lucky's Tale 64
Recore 63
Ryse 60
...

Not to mention what happened with the cancelled projects.

I'm starting to wonder if Xbox can really turn things on their favour by simply acquiring more studios, is it really a lack of talents their problem? it seems to me that in the past 2-3 years they started putting out games regardless of their quality (in fairness Crackdown got delayed several times but that didn't help much), not sure it's because they gave up with this gen so we may see a new Microsoft with the next console or because they didn't have choices: it was either these games (the way they are) or nothing.

Going forward if they want to close the gap with Sony they need to up their game and expect basically all AAA experiences from these studios (both those they own and third parties hired for exclusive games).

Click to shrink...

They just need great games. They don't have to be AAA. I honestly wouldn't expect AAA from Undead, Compulsion or InXile. I'm not even sure Ninja Theory will do AAA. Might be more intimate projects like Hellblade.

 

[Man Called Aerodynamics]

Its managerial. They need to let their developers take more chances. Gears 4, Halo 5, Forza, CD3. SAFE SAFE SAFE SAFE.

Click to shrink...

Those are their best reviewed games though. So by that logic they should be playing things MORE safe.

 

[SnatcherHunter]

Crackdown 3 is out and reviews are bad. (currently 60 on Metacritic) I'm sure people would immediately remind me the troubled development this game faced, but this is only the last one of a series of mixed / poorly reviewed exclusives from Xbox that came out this gen.

Sea of Thieves 69
State of Decay 2 66
Super Lucky's Tale 64
Recore 63
Ryse 60
...

Not to mention what happened with the cancelled projects.

I'm starting to wonder if Xbox can really turn things on their favour by simply acquiring more studios, is it really a lack of talents their problem? it seems to me that in the past 2-3 years they started putting out games regardless of their quality (in fairness Crackdown got delayed several times but that didn't help much), not sure it's because they gave up with this gen so we may see a new Microsoft with the next console or because they didn't have choices: it was either these games (the way they are) or nothing.

Going forward if they want to close the gap with Sony they need to up their game and expect basically all AAA experiences from these studios (both those they own and third parties hired for exclusive games).

Click to shrink...

We def need a sticky around Reset.

This has been explained many times.

 

[Deleted member 51539]

They seem to be determined to change that what with the studio acquisitions, it's not like this is an old problem embedded in Xbox history. Something something I believe in Phil.

How about we also include the Xbox games that reviewed well.

Quantum Break
Dead Rising 3

Click to shrink...

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

How about we also include the Xbox games that reviewed well.
Sunset Overdrive
Quantum Break
Dead Rising 3
Gears 4
Halo 5
Every Forza game
Ori

MS has had more hits than failures this gen.

Click to shrink...

Stop that, let's only focus on the negatives because reasons!

For what it's worth, despite some games reviewing in the 60's, I've had more fun with ReCore, Sea of Thieves and Crackdown 3 than many other higher reviewed AAA games this gen.

 

[Deleted member 36622]

How about we also include the Xbox games that reviewed well.
Sunset Overdrive
Quantum Break
Dead Rising 3
Gears 4
Halo 5
Every Forza game
Ori

MS has had more hits than failures this gen.

Click to shrink...

I'm not ignoring those! but we can all agree there is a problem here, and if you want to compete with Sony, you have to at least match the quality of their products.

 

[dreamlongdead]

Lack of studios and terrible management of projects seem to be the culprits.

343i, Coalition, and Playground Games have shown that they can make polished AAA games. These 3 are clearly not enough to carry Xbox, though.

The newly acquired studios will remedy this problem if Microsoft gives them massive amounts of cash and time. I don't know if MS intends to do that.

 

[ToadPacShakur]

I'll get this to Phil and Matt ASAP. They surely haven't been thinking about this in the past 8 months since they acquired/made 5 studios, 2 studios in November, and the impressive hires being made at The Initiative.

This shit is gonna take time. They should've brought Crackdown in-house or hell, pull a Last Guardian and just disappear for whole damn generation while it's rebuilt from scratch (though honestly if you like Crackdown you'll probably like CD3)

Its managerial. They need to let their developers take more chances. Gears 4, Halo 5, Forza, CD3. SAFE SAFE SAFE SAFE.

Click to shrink...

It's been stated by Rod Fergusson that they did play it safe with Gears 4 (his call, I assume to prove to Gears diehards that they weren't going to fuck it up. It was fun though) but that Gears 5 is going to be more creative and going different places. Have no reason not to believe him. He's been working on GoW since they beginning.

Just from the trailer and the fact they are making a whole new engine for it that they are proud of, I'm more excited for Halo Infinite than I have in a long time.

Forza Motorsport is a goddamn sim racer.. if you're into those it's regarded as one of the best. Idk how you get "unsafe" with those

Forza Horizon? Don't you dare talk shit on one of the best racers ever made lol

 

[Valdega]

One word: budget

Click to shrink...

This guy gets it. Most of the Xbox console exclusives have AA budgets while Sony's exclusives are at the higher end of AAA budgets.

 

[ThisIsBlitz21]

For a lot of those games, the issue is that Microsoft is kicking them out the door too early.

Sea of Thieves is very polished game, but had next to no content at launch
State of Decay had the opposite problem, it had a lot of content for it's price but was buggy af. That co-op mode was broken at launch
Recore felt rushed and undercooked in general. The Definitive edition brings quite a few improvements, but it was too little too late.

All three games have improved enough post launch that their metascore is no longer indicative of the game's current state. That's not to dismiss complaints though.

I cant speak to Crackdown.

 

[Jaypah]

I could have sworn that this thread was longer. Turns out this is another thread today about how MS ain't shit. Boy, they're really going through it huh?

 

[Weebos]

For me it's their genre strengths. They don't make the types of games I enjoy.

 

[Skeeter49]

I'm not ignoring those! but we can all agree there is a problem here, and if you want to compete with Sony, you have to at least match the quality of their products.

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Sure, and I'll agree that ever since 2016, there's been an issue with non Forza games. MS really hasn't had a game that's reviewed really well. The best reviewed game since late 2015 is probably Halo Wars 2? That's a problem that MS needs to address, and yeah, they need to route out where the problem lies.

Clearly the issue isn't time, CD3 is sure proof of that. I feel like it is management. We were looking at this in a discord I'm not allowed to mention, but San Mateo studio, a studio that isn't really making their own games, has put their mittens on a lot of Sony first party games. There's also the Ice and Foster studios, who are helping out the first parties or second parties. So yeah, hte issue might be management if MS isn't dedicating that much love and care to the teams working on their IP's, and I'd assume they aren't.

 

[nightstalker962]

Mattrick did so much damage to the Xbox brand, the guy is a fraud. If Phil had been in charge since 2009 or so the game quality would've been more consistent and you would've had less issues with funding these studios and projects.

 

[Lethologica]

Whew. MS has been ground zero for hot takes this week. This has been what, like the 2nd or 3rd thread this week with people "concerned" about MS' output.

 

[Waddle Dee]

It's the one area Microsoft is still doing terribly at, which is a shame since they've turned around at everything else.

 

[Majiebeast]

This guy gets it. Most of the Xbox console exclusives have AA budgets while Sony's exclusives are at the higher end of AAA budgets.

Click to shrink...

Yeah that's not it. I doubt Halo and Gears are low budget, hell that failed Fable Legends game had a budget of 100M.

 

[NLCPRESIDENT]

Whew. MS has been ground zero for hot takes this week. This has been what, like the 2nd or 3rd thread this week with people "concerned" about MS' output.

Click to shrink...

What? They all have been getting it.

 

[floridaguy954]

Its managerial. They need to let their developers take more chances. Gears 4, Halo 5, Forza, CD3. SAFE SAFE SAFE SAFE.

Click to shrink...

I'm going to have to completely disagree when it comes to Gears 4 and Forza. Both games are best in class.

 

[Jroc]

Super Lucky's Tale, Recore and Ryse weren't made by Microsoft 1st Party studios...

 

[deadasdisco]

lack of talent is bullshit imo. Mainly budget and some management.

 

[ISOM]

Its managerial. They need to let their developers take more chances. Gears 4, Halo 5, Forza, CD3. SAFE SAFE SAFE SAFE.

Click to shrink...

This. You don't create great IPs by playing it safe. Microsoft has relied on the safety net of their franchises for far too long. It's why they are in third place.

 

[Deleted member 19924]

They have chosen some crappy studios for their 2nd party affairs, It's not a lack of talent because their inhouse studios are quite proven. For example, 343i or The Coalition would've made a much better Crackdown 3 than Sumo Digital. It's a management issue, they need better quality control.

Its managerial. They need to let their developers take more chances. Gears 4, Halo 5, Forza, CD3. SAFE SAFE SAFE SAFE.

Click to shrink...

To be fair, Halo: Infinite and Gears 5 don't look safe.

 

[-Pyromaniac-]

Talent and budget is probably it. People take for granted how amazing some of the game directors Sony and Nintendo have are.

 

[OneBadMutha]

Terry Myerson. He gone. Let's look forward.

You don't quadruple your development heads in 2 years if there's a lack of standards.

Search this forum. This topic has being re-written multiple times already.

 

[Buff Beefbroth]

Trying to make the underpowered Xbox One an "All In One Entertainment Center" made them lose focus on talent development in the gaming space. Gaming was just one spoke on the wheel they were focused on in 2013 and the momentum (or lack thereof) wasn't enough to sustain them into the present day.

 

[FacelessSamurai]

Crackdown 3 is out and reviews are bad. (currently 60 on Metacritic) I'm sure people would immediately remind me the troubled development this game faced, but this is only the last one of a series of mixed / poorly reviewed exclusives from Xbox that came out this gen.

Sea of Thieves 69
State of Decay 2 66
Super Lucky's Tale 64
Recore 63
Ryse 60
...

Not to mention what happened with the cancelled projects.

I'm starting to wonder if Xbox can really turn things on their favour by simply acquiring more studios, is it really a lack of talents their problem? it seems to me that in the past 2-3 years they started putting out games regardless of their quality (in fairness Crackdown got delayed several times but that didn't help much), not sure it's because they gave up with this gen so we may see a new Microsoft with the next console or because they didn't have choices: it was either these games (the way they are) or nothing.

Going forward if they want to close the gap with Sony they need to up their game and expect basically all AAA experiences from these studios (both those they own and third parties hired for exclusive games).

Click to shrink...

Ryse is definitely worth more than 60, because although short it's a great game. First time I hear it's bad, most people I know that have played it actually liked it.

Sea of Thieves has a big playerbase and tons of people liked it, while some might say it lacked content at launch, it should easily score close to 80 if not more right now. One of my top games this gen. For me it's an easy 9/10.

State of Decay isn't a bad game, it just lacks polish. Gameplay wise it is great, but it does need a bigger team to get it where it needs to be.

Recore I think it's worth a bit more, but it is pretty average.

I haven't played Super Lucky's Tale.

I've personally bought all those games (except for Super Lucky) and I haven't been disappointed at all with what I got. (same goes for Crackdown 3)

 

[Aokiji]

they are also responsible for gears 4 & forza horizon. it's mostly decision making. cd3 is a game that probably shouldve been canceled or rebooted, instead of bruteforced through to release.

 

[Valdega]

Yeah that's not it. I doubt Halo and Gears are low budget, hell that failed Fable Legends game had a budget of 100M.

Click to shrink...

I think you missed the part where I said "most." You know, games like Crackdown 3, Recore, State of Decay 2, Super Lucky's Tale, Sea of Thieves, etc.

Also, Fable Legends isn't a good example because it only had that budget as a result of poor management and repeated delays. It was also canceled so we don't know if it would have been any good.

 

[k0decraft]

Mattrick did so much damage to the Xbox brand, the guy is a fraud. If Phil had been in charge since 2009 or so the game quality would've been more consistent and you would've had less issues with funding these studios and projects.

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Not...at....all.

 

[FacelessSamurai]

Yeah that's not it. I doubt Halo and Gears are low budget, hell that failed Fable Legends game had a budget of 100M.

Click to shrink...

But Halo and Gears are not bad either, Halo 5 and Gears 4 are some of the best games this gen and are not the games being discussed here anyway.

 

[Viceratops]

I think that's kind of irrelevant. All games were funded and produced by MS. Both Sony and Nintendo have plenty of first party games that weren't developed internally as well.

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I'm trying to give them a break lol.

 

[Bradbatross]

I'd take Crackdown 3 over most games that released in the past few years.

 

[Deleted member 10726]

I'd say management, since the talent is there. I feel like some of their lower scoring games had some great potential, but management issues prevented them from reaching that.

 

[Knight613]

Super Lucky's Tale, Recore and Ryse weren't made by Microsoft 1st Party studios...

Click to shrink...

Neither was Crackdown 3.

 

[nib95]

I think it's potentially a combination of all of the above, plus worse management, less ambition and less effective play testing. I'm not sure it has a lot to do with budget, and can't imagine games like CD3 and SoT that were in development for 4-5 years with teams of 100-200+, could constitute as low budget or lacking in financial investment.

I get the feeling that with certain tentpole titles, the other publishers simply tend to be a little more stringent with play testing and quality control, not to mention far more ambitious and forward thinking in terms of production values, gameplay design, overall level of polish etc. Sony and Nintendo, as well as many third party publishers, are constantly making cutting edge, stand out, GOTY candidate titles, and it seems Microsoft mostly isn't. That's not to say the other platform holders don't drop the ball and don't have duds, but certainly not near the consistency of Microsoft as of late.

I also think it probably doesn't help that Game Pass effectively now somewhat limits the expectation and amount of fallout from less ambitious or quality projects, especially among some of its most enthusiast fans/consumers.

After 6 years in to this generation, the only Xbox One console exclusives that will have hit 85 and over on meta will be the Forza titles, Cuphead, Ori and Titanfall. That is kind of shocking really, especially in comparison to the competition.

 

[Deleted member 3017]

I'm trying to give them a break lol.

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nah, you don't need to give them a break. I think Phil Spencer himself would agree that first party is a major opportunity for Xbox, which is why MS has finally opened up the checkbook for acquisitions and new studios built from the ground up. Beyond that though, here's hoping they start taking some more risks. I actually think Sea of Thieves was a decent move in that direction, flawed as it is.

 

[Apophis]

Yeah that's not it. I doubt Halo and Gears are low budget, hell that failed Fable Legends game had a budget of 100M.

Click to shrink...

I wasn't talking about Halo and Gears. And the reason for Fable being canceled is actually just that. Microsoft didn't want to waste so much money on a game that had zero buzz

 

[goldenpp73]

How about we also include the Xbox games that reviewed well.
Sunset Overdrive
Quantum Break
Dead Rising 3
Gears 4
Halo 5
Every Forza game
Ori

MS has had more hits than failures this gen.

Click to shrink...

DR3 would be panned these days, it certainly wasn't great.