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Naked Snake

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,105
I've been a fan of Kurzgesagt for years, and I know many of you are too. This video from CoffeeBreak (another YT channel, much smaller) makes what Kurzgesagt did with their latest video, titled "Can you trust Kurzgesagt videos?", look really bad.




Edit: Calling it "shady af" in my title was overdramatic. I was last for words and that's the best I could come up with on the spot. I requested a mod to edit to the current title.

Edit 2: My stance on this has flipped 180 degrees since I made this thread. Thanks Era.

At first I thought CoffeeBreak was just a bit overdramatic but they had a legitimate point -- after reading the e-mails I think he's pretty shady, yeah. He could've easily gotten the interview out before Kurzgesagt's video if he wanted to. I'm not quite sure why he didn't. Also his "paraphrasing" of the e-mails is the weirdest stretch of that word I've seen in a while.
He read it.
Also, Philipp stated that Hari wrote most of the script for that episode. Coffee Break was just distorting facts to give the narrative they wanted.
CGP Grey responded to the video:
"Obviously, I'm friends with Philipp, so that means you CAN'T TRUST ME, but I've been listening to Philipp talking about the changes to his research process and working on announcing it for probably two years at this point. Coffee break wanted to snipe Philipp on a topic close to his heart and cast FUD on something I know is important to the core of the way he runs Kurzgesagt."
 
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Sokrates

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
560
Oof. Just saw this and it looks bad,. Check the comments section on the In a Nutshell vid and you can see that public opinion turned against them.
 

Ravio-li

Member
Dec 24, 2018
948
Oh come on, this channel has been a blast for me in the last few weeks (seen them before but never all the content on the channel). This would hurt if it is true (watching now).
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,477
Yeah im not against Kurzgesagt for getting things wrong, oversimplifying or cutting corners

How he handled this is REALLY bad. Why couldnt he do the Adam Conover approach and completely open himself up to the criticism in hopes of doing better in the future

It clearly points to the inherent conflict of interest when you combine your willingness to educate the public with the the desire to profit

Unfortunately his monetary instincts overrode his philantropic ones in this instance in sleazy fashion.... fuck man
 

BennyWhatever

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,781
US
Kind of deceiving - headline and upfront makes it sound like Kurzgesagt is giving bad info. That's not entirely true. Basically, a small-time youtube channel guy questioned a bunch of stuff about the addiction video, so they did their research and found out "wow he's right" so they made a video apologizing and took the video down.
Coffee Break should have been cited, but them going out trying to hurt all of Kurzgesagt's street cred seems pretty petty. They still make good videos.
 

Ravio-li

Member
Dec 24, 2018
948
This doesn't look good at all, either the coffee break guy lies directly or Kurzgesagt made a really scummy move, effectively trying to silence someone. On top of potentially misrepresenting the issues of the addiction video.

I'm really interested in their answer. Here is an AMA that they opened
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
29,915
Don't ever trust what you can't pronounce

They seem very open about screwing up though, hopefully that will ensure they are transparent and accountable in the future
 

lazygecko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,628
Can't watch the video right now, can I get a short summary?

Coffee Break emailed Kurzgesagt asking some interview questions about accuracy concerns over the drug addiction video. Coffee Break was told to wait until a few weeks into March before resolving the whole thing. Then in early March Kurzgesagt pre-emptively publishes a video apologizing over misreporirting and answering the exact questions meant for the interview with no credit or mention to Coffee Break in order to save face and come out ahead of the scandal.
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,477
Kind of deceiving - headline and upfront makes it sound like Kurzgesagt is giving bad info. That's not entirely true. Basically, a small-time youtube channel guy questioned a bunch of stuff about the addiction video, so they did their research and found out "wow he's right" so they made a video apologizing and took the video down.
Coffee Break should have been cited, but them going out trying to hurt all of Kurzgesagt's street cred seems pretty petty. They still make good videos.

Still a low point and they could have handled it better along with giving the critic credit for pointing out the flaws along with all future critics that find issues in their videos

Coffee Break is on point calling them out for lack of transparency in the moment only for them to come clean later
 

Deleted member 6730

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,526
Kind of deceiving - headline and upfront makes it sound like Kurzgesagt is giving bad info. That's not entirely true. Basically, a small-time youtube channel guy questioned a bunch of stuff about the addiction video, so they did their research and found out "wow he's right" so they made a video apologizing and took the video down.
Coffee Break should have been cited, but them going out trying to hurt all of Kurzgesagt's street cred seems pretty petty. They still make good videos.
That's not what happened at all.
 

Zen

The Wise Ones
Member
Nov 1, 2017
9,657
This is why I don't trust YouTube channels that aren't actual arms of a research institute and always take things with a grain of salt no matter if they have sources and fact checking.
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,131
UK
Oof. Just saw this and it looks bad,. Check the comments section on the In a Nutshell vid and you can see that public opinion turned against them.
Yup, all the top-voted comments are about the Coffee Break video. I've unsubscribed, also. I was always suspicious that this Kurzgesagt channel never listed in the credits who their team was, what their team size was, their researchers or if they had any, etc.

Now I need to check if other educational channels are legit.
 

chezzymann

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,042
Its disturbing how youtube channels, be it through news stories, science facts, or reviews, havs just as big of a platform as official publications now.
 

Lumination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,469
wqhoCqC.png
 

No_Style

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,795
Ottawa, Canada
The ominous music is a bit much but Kurzgesagt was in the wrong about the addiction video and their reaction to Coffee Break's questions. Will this sour me to the point of unsubscribing? No. But it does serve as a reminder that we should all question and vet things. I've always said that sources like Kurzgesagt and Wikipedia were great starting points but it's up to the viewer/reader to do more research and not just accept everything as the authority.
 

Parthenios

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
13,605
Coffee Break emailed Kurzgesagt asking some interview questions about accuracy concerns over the drug addiction video. Coffee Break was told to wait until a few weeks into March before resolving the whole thing. Then in early March Kurzgesagt pre-emptively publishes a video apologizing over misreporirting and answering the exact questions meant for the interview with no credit or mention to Coffee Break in order to save face and come out ahead of the scandal.
I can't watch the video but is this the extent of it? Why is this bad/wrong/shady?

Get a claim wrong > have someone point that out > correct it

Is this not how we want society to behave?
 

rashbeep

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,458
Kind of deceiving - headline and upfront makes it sound like Kurzgesagt is giving bad info. That's not entirely true. Basically, a small-time youtube channel guy questioned a bunch of stuff about the addiction video, so they did their research and found out "wow he's right" so they made a video apologizing and took the video down.
Coffee Break should have been cited, but them going out trying to hurt all of Kurzgesagt's street cred seems pretty petty. They still make good videos.

an oversimplification that happens to be misinformation

how meta
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,477
Yeah I don't appreciate Coffee Breaks overt theatrics regarding this incident

It comes off as a personally motivated hit piece despite having a solid basis for his claim

Kurzgesagt needs to be better about doing better work and should be humble and transparent with mistakes and welcoming of critics in the name of accuracy
 

Neutra

Member
Oct 27, 2017
988
NYC
i too am failing to see the controversy here. i was waiting for some twist in the video in the OP that never came.

this coffee break fella seems mostly upset that he didn't get to do his amateur expose.
 

Deleted member 8118

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,639
This is why I primarily look at YouTube as a source of entertainment instead of a source of news or facts.
 
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DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,477
i too am failing to see the controversy here. i was waiting for some twist in the video in the OP that never came.

this coffee break fella seems mostly upset that he didn't get to do his amateur expose.

Yup that tone comes off heavy from his video

Like dude... props for calling out inaccuracies. Sure they didnt credit you but the goal was achieved

It makes both parties self serving instead of the common goal of having good and accurate informational videos on Youtube
 

uzipukki

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,722
I can't watch the video but is this the extent of it? Why is this bad/wrong/shady?

Get a claim wrong > have someone point that out > correct it

Is this not how we want society to behave?
The addiction video was up for 4 years before it was taken down though... They didn't even use the book as source..
 

Midramble

Force of Habit
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
10,456
San Francisco
Coffee Break emailed Kurzgesagt asking some interview questions about accuracy concerns over the drug addiction video. Coffee Break was told to wait until a few weeks into March before resolving the whole thing. Then in early March Kurzgesagt pre-emptively publishes a video apologizing over misreporirting and answering the exact questions meant for the interview with no credit or mention to Coffee Break in order to save face and come out ahead of the scandal.

The AMA says they have been working on the script since 2017 which makes sense as these things take forever to produce. This smells like a hit piece.
 

Terrell

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,624
Canada
Kind of deceiving - headline and upfront makes it sound like Kurzgesagt is giving bad info. That's not entirely true. Basically, a small-time youtube channel guy questioned a bunch of stuff about the addiction video, so they did their research and found out "wow he's right" so they made a video apologizing and took the video down.
Coffee Break should have been cited, but them going out trying to hurt all of Kurzgesagt's street cred seems pretty petty. They still make good videos.
I see the point being made, but journalists lose stories when their subjects get out ahead of them ALL THE TIME. His presentation makes it seem like he's pissed that he didn't get a chance to dunk on Kurzgesagt, when people who report the facts should be more focused on the exposure of the truth. There are issues to take with how Kurzgesagt went about it, definitely, but it all gets lost in his anger about not being able to get some personal aggrandizement out of it.
 

BennyWhatever

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,781
US
i too am failing to see the controversy here. i was waiting for some twist in the video in the OP that never came.

this coffee break fella seems mostly upset that he didn't get to do his amateur expose.
This is exactly what I got out of it too. The coffee break guy seems intent to take down a really good channel because he wasn't cited for something.
Kurzkezagt screwed up and apologized and took action to rectify it. Only thing I see they should have done different was cite CoffeeBreak.
 

DrROBschiz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,477
The AMA says they have been working on the script since 2017 which makes sense as these things take forever to produce. This smells like a hit piece.

it is since coffee break is advocating that the channel can be trusted as opposed to "hey I called out their mistake and wasnt credited"

This didnt have to go down this way.
 

chezzymann

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,042
Sounds like this coffee break guy just wants his 15 minutes of fame at the expense of a great youtube channel. Screw him.
 
Oct 26, 2017
12,125
Kind of deceiving - headline and upfront makes it sound like Kurzgesagt is giving bad info. That's not entirely true. Basically, a small-time youtube channel guy questioned a bunch of stuff about the addiction video, so they did their research and found out "wow he's right" so they made a video apologizing and took the video down.
Coffee Break should have been cited, but them going out trying to hurt all of Kurzgesagt's street cred seems pretty petty. They still make good videos.
Also the whole thing about saying how emails are really really important while showing a picture of hilary clinton. ya... im out
 

Deleted member 283

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,288
I can't watch the video but is this the extent of it? Why is this bad/wrong/shady?

Get a claim wrong > have someone point that out > correct it

Is this not how we want society to behave?
The shady part is not mentioning Coffee Break at all in this. They acted like it was completely their idea, that they did out of the goodness of their own hearts/their own personal review of their videos. When it was Coffee Break that pointed out the flaws, and asked them about what was going on there, but at the same, they were all just like "good enough" and made no mention of working on a video like this, or that they would take down the incorrect videos, or anything, when they almost certainly were planning on those things at the time because of the timeline. The whole problem is them trying to get kudos for something that wasn't their idea or anything to begin with. Especially since another part of the problem was Kurzgesagt did this all in a video called "Can you Trust us" or whatever which was basically about how awesome they are for doing this, that they don't have to do this, but they're doing it anyway because of how awesome they are and you should totally love them for not, with no mention of Coffee Break anywhere and how it obviously inspired that. It's super manipulative and not very cool, and the irony of a video on that subject winding up proving that they can't be trusted and there are things going on behind the scenes can't be understated.

It wouldn't be shady had they just admitted it. But instead, they just used it as a PR opportunity to make it seem like everything was their idea at every step when it wasn't, and when the original subject was "can you trust us" and that's how they presented it, when, as it turns out, they left stuff out... yeah definitely not a good look on their part.
 

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,016
Not able to watch the video, but if Hari is behind them then they can eat shit. If they used his anti anti depressants book as a source they can also eat shit.

Not quite. Basically, they'd sourced some of Hari's work on addiction as the basis for their video, seemingly unaware of the flaws in it. So CB sent them an email about it, at which point Kurz. realised they'd made something of a mistake (if they hadn't already and just realised there was a pressure to set the record straight now). CB inquired about getting to do an interview to maybe discuss and air out these issues, Kurz. told them to wait until early March - when the 'In a Nutshell' video went up. CB takes this as a sign that Kurz. sought to get out ahead of him in noting the issues in prior videos, denying him all credit while getting to further paint themselves as so honest for being 'upfront' about their flaws (after prompting from an undisclosed source).

So the ostensible 'lie' is less Kurz. being deliberately misleading in their content itself, as opposed to a nominal shadiness in how they conduct and present the channel, particularly in relation to smaller creators that might potentially question them. Which... might have some merit, but as detailed above, CB himself has some choice flourishes and video subjects that might make one express some doubt.
 

Zen

The Wise Ones
Member
Nov 1, 2017
9,657
Can we not forget that Kurzgesagt didn't even read the book they used as a source? Whatever personal grudge this guy has that his content was usurped, fact remains Kurzgesagt was not transparent about their exchange and are trying to play it off in the way that makes them look spotless.
 
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