Let's say Half Life Alyx did come out for PC, what would it accomplish?

[Shinobido Heart]

Hopefully the title doesn't sound offensive and by PC, I mean not exclusive to VR.

I guess the question in the title can be asked to just about any game, not just Half Life Alyx, but besides the obvious which is furthering the story of the Half Life games.

Would you be satisfied with just that? Where do you see console/PC gaming going in the next decade or so?

What I'm trying to say is, in my opinion, I think VR is where the innovation is. It's a significant enough game changer, to the point where even a big company such as Valve dove into it.

I spoke of this in other threads but I'll re-iterate it here. I've been a console gamer my whole life, with a PC gaming rig on the side as I grew older. I would always buy the next console generation as it released and of course, I had fun with it with each new game that released. Same thing with my PC, I would upgrade it with a newer motherboard, graphics card, CPU, etc and play the newest PC games on that, with or without mods.

However, I didn't know how fatigued I was from doing the same thing over and over again. A new console generation releases, you go out and buy it, and its another box with a game-pad. The games might look prettier and prettier with each new generation and there might be a gimmick or two, but it was a lot of the same thing. I'm not saying VR will escape that repetition, but I think it offers a fresh new take on gaming and I do encourage everyone to go out and try it at a demo station if possible.

With that said, I'm interested in the thoughts and opinions of everyone. The goal of this thread is to get people to ask themselves questions. I'm hoping I was able to convey that, I'm not very good at organizing my thoughts.

 

[Menchin]

Consumer VR hardware just isn't yet good enough to me to justify the price and hassle of setting it up.

It being available in non-VR mode would change nothing, which is exactly why it should be.

 

[moonie]

You can only do so much through a gamepad or keyboard/mouse interface. I don't really see gaming and entertainment 20 years from now being limited to just those interfaces. VR is clunky and awkward today, but future innovation and shrinking of hardware to better integrate into the experience will no doubt make the experience not only smoother but more preferable compared to current methods.

 

[viral]

It just feels early. Headsets are still too expensive and you need a strong PC too, which is also expensive, and there aren't many killer games for it. AAA games won't be made exclusively for VR until every console fully adapts it, which could be generations away. HL:A looks fantastic, but I'm not gonna shell out hundreds of dollars for one game.

 

[DarthBuzzard]

Consumer VR hardware just isn't yet good enough to me to justify the price and hassle of setting it up.

It being available in non-VR mode would change nothing, which is exactly why it should be.

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Except it would change all the physics, the movement, the interactions, the AI.

Not to mention that the non-gameplay side, the experience of the game would be vastly downgraded.

It would be like making Mario 64 as a 2D game.

 

[Dio]

it's just that while i understand that VR as a way to play the game needs to get heavy hitters such as this, i don't see myself buying one anytime soon, given how expensive they are where i live. i do hope it's the what VR needs.

Consumer VR hardware just isn't yet good enough to me to justify the price and hassle of setting it up.

It being available in non-VR mode would change nothing, which is exactly why it should be.

Click to shrink...

wat. it would completely change everything.

 

[Avis]

A new Half Life game that was just better graphics/Source 2 and furthering the story wouldn't have satisfied me at all. These games have always been more about pushing the envelope on technology and PC gaming more than anything - the rest is just flavour. Great flavour, but flavour nonetheless.

 

[Ryuhza]

A new Half Life game that was just better graphics/Source 2 and furthering the story wouldn't have satisfied me at all. These games have always been more about pushing the envelope on technology and PC gaming more than anything - the rest is just flavour. Great flavour, but flavour nonetheless.

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What envelope did the episodes push compared to Half Life 2?

 

[s0l0kill]

Consumer VR hardware just isn't yet good enough to me to justify the price and hassle of setting it up.

It being available in non-VR mode would change nothing, which is exactly why it should be.

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I do not know of your previous experiences in VR, but your comment on a non-VR mode makes me think you've never really tried it?

 

[Dio]

What envelope did the episodes push compared to Half Life 2?

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iirc, physics stuff, at least compared to what was out at the time? dunno

 

[DIE BART DIE]

Consumer VR hardware just isn't yet good enough to me to justify the price and hassle of setting it up.

It being available in non-VR mode would change nothing, which is exactly why it should be.

Click to shrink...

You're rightfully getting dragged for this - VR isn't just "waggle" (ugh, apologies for using that word) that merely substitutes a button press with a generic motion. The game literally can't be ported to non-VR while remaining the same experience.

However, I am looking forward to next gen VR with foveated rendering, better fidelity, better ergonomics etc.

 

[Avis]

What envelope did the episodes push compared to Half Life 2?

Click to shrink...

Building on the foundation of HL2 - more source engine assets, physics improvements and other stuff, being part of the orange box being brought to consoles.

 

[Deleted member 679]

I completely disagree with the premise of the thread that "traditional console game design" has nowhere else to go, no more innovation to come from it.

That being said, I completely agree that for the kind of technology-driven innovative game design that defines Valve, VR was absolutely the right choice. And I don't own or plan to own VR, it's just that Valve to me is synonymous with new technology driving gameplay much more than they are about the stories and continuinity built in each franchise.

VR is much more of a natural progression for their single player offerings than whether the game is a prequel or sequel, the way I see it.

But, again, I disagree with the base premise, and think that if you think you're just playing the same stuff but prettier, that's on you and the things you pick. Just recently we had Death Stranding, as a big budget cinematic AAA game being super divisive because it's doing something unconventional for the kind of game it is, and it didn't need a new hardware to achieve it, just to approach game design differently from what the team has done up to now.

Playing Souls for the first time absolutely didn't feel just like any other game from that year, but it wasn't the power of the cell or whatever that allowed them to achieve it, just a very unique kind of game design that came from the mind of Hidetaka Miyazaki, and no one thought of approaching things quite like this before.

 

[Cyanity]

What envelope did the episodes push compared to Half Life 2?

Click to shrink...

They were expansions to HL2....?

 

[Deleted member 2474]

it sounds like you are bored with traditional gaming. that's totally fair for you, but consider: this is a gaming enthusiast forum. most of us are perfectly happy with those "boring" non-VR games!

i have tried VR, i have been given demos of VR, and it just... doesn't work for me? i can't get immersed in it in any meaningful sense. my brain still registers an oculus rift screen as a screen, and while my eyes are perfectly capable of seeing stereoscopic 3d they are also trained enough to know the difference between "stereoscopic 3d" and "actual depth." and without being able to feel properly immersed then it basically just feels like glorified kinect controls. perhaps i'm just too picky.

and there's also the fact that people have been waiting over a decade for more half-life. and now the only way to experience it is gated behind, bare minimum a $200-$300 wmr headset, and ideally a $1000 valve index kit (and a room to set it all up) for the "proper" room-scale full-hand-control experience. if half-life alyx is the only VR game you are especially interested in, then even a cheap WMR headset is a significant investment relative to other games, never mind an index kit.

i'm not gonna say "valve should've made it non-VR", because obviously they have set out to make an experience that can only be done with VR, and like... given valve's investment in VR obviously it's important for them to spearhead that kind of content. but i think it's also perfectly understandable why many people are upset that they've waited so long to get more half-life and it's in a new format they didn't ask for or want.

 

[DIE BART DIE]

This game will be more innovative and in keeping with the spirit of the boundary-pushing nature of the franchise than a non-VR Half-Life 3 would ever have been. There have been a lot of cinematic shooters since 2004.

 

[Cyanity]

I completely disagree with the premise of the thread that "traditional console game design" has nowhere else to go, no more innovation to come from it.

That being said, I completely agree that for the kind of technology-driven innovative game design that defines Valve, VR was absolutely the right choice. And I don't own or plan to own VR, it's just that Valve to me is synonymous with new technology driving gameplay much more than they are about the stories and continuinity built in each franchise.

VR is much more of a natural progression for their single player offerings than whether the game is a prequel or sequel, the way I see it.

But, again, I disagree with the base premise, and think that if you think you're just playing the same stuff but prettier, that's on you and the things you pick. Just recently we had Death Stranding, as a big budget cinematic AAA game being super divisive because it's doing something unconventional for the kind of game it is, and it didn't need a new hardware to achieve it, just to approach game design differently from what the team has done up to now.

Playing Souls for the first time absolutely didn't feel just like any other game from that year, but it wasn't the power of the cell or whatever that allowed them to achieve it, just a very unique kind of game design that came from the mind of Hidetaka Miyazaki, and no one thought of approaching things quite like this before.

Click to shrink...

There is a difference between unconventional experiences and entire paradigm shifts. VR, and HL: Alyx, are paradigm shifts. There's little comparison to be made, tbh.

 

[Ryuhza]

Building on the foundation of HL2 - more source engine assets, physics improvements and other stuff, being part of the orange box being brought to consoles.

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Sounds like minor advancements. And yet they were still well received, especially Episode 2. I can't speak to your personal satisfaction with them, but to me it seems as if they didn't need to massively push boundaries in order to be worthwhile games.

 

[werezompire]

Half-Life is one of the only FPS series I enjoy. It's been years since the last one. I would have been very satisfied with a new one that played like the old ones with better graphics that didn't require expensive hardware that I'm afraid won't work well with my eyes & will make me nauseous. I don't care if individual games push the medium forward - I just want stuff that's fun.

 

[NuclearCake]

Sounds like minor advancements. And yet they were still well received, especially Episode 2. I can't speak to your personal satisfaction with them, but to me it seems as if they didn't need a paradigm shift to be worthwhile games.

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You kind of do if it has been more than a decade since the last entry.

 

[Palazzo]

I have no complaints with VR - I'd try getting into it myself if I had the money - but I can't get behind writing off the last decade of great game releases as "repetiive"; that sounds like writing off the strengths of iteration. Needing paradigm shifts to stay engaged sounds like an easy way to get burned out on gaming prematurely.

 

[Deleted member 679]

There is a difference between unconventional experiences and entire paradigm shifts. VR, and HL: Alyx, are paradigm shifts. There's little comparison to be made, tbh.

Click to shrink...

You're right, but the mere fact that it's such a paradigm shift makes it more of a parallel segment than a direct evolution, in my opinion. It'll have its own tried and true formulas, it'll have its consolidated examples of good and bad VR game design, and stuff like that.

I don't feel like "flat gaming" will just repeat the same things, and VR is where you actually get new experiences. I especially don't feel that way now, which is the sentiment the OP already has. Maybe in the future it'll be true, but if they're feeling that way for multiple past generations? I don't know what to say.

 

[Nezacant]

What envelope did the episodes push compared to Half Life 2?

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Each of the 2 episodes wanted to focus on new tech and game play.
Episode 1 featured Alyx as a traveling companion who reacted to you and what you did. (And she made a funny zombine joke.)
Episode 2 featured new physics and destruction, like that collapsing bridge.

(I'm pulling this from memory, I'm sure there's more)

 

[SweetBellic]

I would actually play it lol

VR is still a poor value proposition. One "killer app" doesn't change that.

 

[alr1ght]

They designed the entire thing with VR in mind (watch the Keighley interview). It means I probably won't get to play it, but kudos to them for going for it.

Spoiler

somebody will mod in kb/m controls anyways.

 

[apocat]

It being available in non-VR mode would change nothing, which is exactly why it should be.

Click to shrink...

That would literally change the core mechanics of the game. It's designed around VR.

 

[funky]

People would be happy?

Making people happy seems like a good thing.

Half Life isnt this special thing. It doesnt need to reinvent the wheel. Its a video game.



I am still Valve has finally stepped up to the plate and delivered a true AAA VR game. They always seemed like the only guys who could truly do that and take the hit. Everyone knows its probably a big money loser. But someone has to try.

 

[Deleted member 2620]

Half-Life has always been bleeding-edge, and VR FPS (a genre that is already pretty distinct from non-VR FPS) is a perfect fit for the series. And in time VR will become cheaper, more comfortable, and more accessible, and Half-Life Alyx will still be around when that's the case. It's okay to not play games on release day!

I have no complaints with VR - I'd try getting into it myself if I had the money - but I can't get behind writing off the last decade of great game releases as "repetiive"; that sounds like writing off the strengths of iteration.

Click to shrink...

Agreed. Traditional FPSes have still been seeing cool new refinements being made, ironically in part due to this retro-FPS movement with games like DUSK.

 

[zulux21]

Consumer VR hardware just isn't yet good enough to me to justify the price and hassle of setting it up.

It being available in non-VR mode would change nothing, which is exactly why it should be.

Click to shrink...

everyone else is piling in the second half of your statement. I'm gonna focus on the first.

The oculus rift s / quest is literally pick it up, stand in your play area, put it on, play. (or sit in your chair if you don't want to stand and move around)

If it's your first time using it you will have to take 5 seconds to point around you to set up a guardian field. No sensors to set up, nothing to calibrate, it's all in the headset.

It's no more of a hassle to set up then finding both your TV remote and playstation remote to play the ps4.

I am still Valve has finally stepped up to the plate and delivered a true AAA VR game. They always seemed like the only guys who could truly do that and take the hit. Everyone knows its probably a big money loser. But someone has to try.

Click to shrink...

Oculus already beat them to the punch with Asgard's Wrath.

 

[Navid]

Why does it need to accomplish much more than making the experience available to a much wider audience... surly that is enough of a accomplishment in itself?

 

[Jroc]

I'll never forget the groundbreaking and totally not iterative gameplay brought forward by Blueshift, Opposing Force, Decay, Episode 1 and Episode 2. It's obvious that Valve had absolutely no choice but to make the franchise VR-only.

Sarcasm aside, for me the cool aspect of VR is seeing the world with your own eyes and getting a sense of the scale. The actual motion controls and "room scale" stuff isn't as fun as using a normal controller. Yeah it's cool to knock stuff off shelves and crouch around but after a while I find myself yearning for traditional FPS gameplay. That's why RE7 and AC7 are the GOAT VR games in my book.

I would have enjoyed a normal Half-life game because I've enjoyed all of the previous Half-life games and want to know what happens next in the universe after the 13-year cliffhanger.

 

[dgrdsv]

That would give a lot of people a Half-Life game which they've been waiting for since 2006. Not a VR game - which HL never ever was mind you.

 

[SomeoneSomewhere]

millions of sales and a satisfied fanbase?

 

[Deleted member 2620]

for what it's worth, I do think there's a non-zero chance this will come to non-VR at some point (be it community mods or Valve themselves), but I also think it's reasonable that such a reworking of the game's core mechanics (and maybe content, who knows) would take some time. I also wouldn't expect any corporation the size of Valve to be transparent about that if it were a possibility, which is worth criticizing if it does wind up happening.

 

[Cenauru]

It wouldn't accomplish anything, nor does it need to. People would want a new Half Life game no matter what it is.

But Valve is interested in pushing boundaries. They've been working on VR for a long time now and are more interested in making a game use everything VR has to offer. People think VR is just a gimmick because lots of games are still playing and thinking in terms of kb+m/ controller standards, when VR could be a complete new evolution on gameplay and interactivity. We need more of these games that play to VR's every strength to show what VR can do and prove that it's worth improving.

 

[RidiculousMirror]

It would accomplish being fucken rad as hell like every other Half-Life game Valve has made.

 

[BadWolf]

Any way you spin it, what they have done is a dick move towards a lot of fans.

They should have just done what RE7 did and make it viable both with and without VR.

 

[zulux21]

Any way you spin it, what they have done is a dick move towards a lot of fans.

They should have just done what RE7 did and make it viable both with and without VR.

Click to shrink...

it wouldn't remotely be taking advantage of VR then.
Which is the main thing they wanted to do.

 

[AllEchse]

Any way you spin it, what they have done is a dick move towards a lot of fans.

They should have just done what RE7 did and make it viable both with and without VR.

Click to shrink...

As they said in the interview, the main driving force behind developement was that it is a VR game, if you strip that away, you are losing the things that are so innovative about it because they would have to be automated again and some mechanics just wouldn't work.
AI and levels would also have to be redesigned with the limitations of a 2D screen.

I just hope another Half-Life project will be less scary to the devs after this and they can find a good gameplay hook for the Sequel that everyones waiting for since 2007.

 

[Cenauru]

Any way you spin it, what they have done is a dick move towards a lot of fans.

They should have just done what RE7 did and make it viable both with and without VR.

Click to shrink...

The entire point of it being VR only is so they can focus entirely on VR, instead of two separate versions or a safe game that doesn't do anything extra that kb+m can't do.

 

[dgrdsv]

Any way you spin it, what they have done is a dick move towards a lot of fans.

They should have just done what RE7 did and make it viable both with and without VR.

Click to shrink...

Or even better: they should've developed a new IP (maybe several) for their VR exclusive projects. But it wouldn't have nearly as much selling power so there you have it.

 

[SneakersSO]

As someone who has played VR a number of times and who finds the tech absolutely novel, it simply isn't the format I would enjoy to play any game for the length of time of a big-budget production (10-20h, as this one seems to be). I don't find it compelling enough an experience, despite me enjoying the various titles and prototypes I have played with it, but its simply not a thing I would ever invest in long term or put in any more time & effort (and money) than need be.

Am I going to skip Half-LIfe:Alyx? Absolutely. I have played on a multitude of headsets and not one of them have dispelled the physical toll it takes on me when playing them (dizziness, headaches, generally more tired mentally in far-shorter lengths of time than traditional games).

Having said that, I am glad there is going to be more Half-Life in the world. While I do wish there was some attempt to have a traditionally-controlled version of this game, its on the developers to deliver a vision they believe in. They are fully aware that the vast majority of both gaming-enthusiasts and half-life fans don't have the technology required to enjoy this if it were to release today, but they believed in this vision enough to push through regardless.

I'm sure this will bring more people into the VR fold and make people a believer in the tech. And perhaps someday a VR solution is released that relieves my issues with the tech and allows me to enjoy this game better than any current-day VR solution would.

 

[ArjanN]

Except it would change all the physics, the movement, the interactions, the AI.

Not to mention that the non-gameplay side, the experience of the game would be vastly downgraded.

It would be like making Mario 64 as a 2D game.

Click to shrink...

Who could ever imagine Mario as a 2d game? ;)

To be honest I feel you could probably do 90% of it with mouse & keyboard just fine, it'd just feel less immersive.

Any way you spin it, what they have done is a dick move towards a lot of fans.

They should have just done what RE7 did and make it viable both with and without VR.

Click to shrink...

RE7 worked fine both ways, I expect this to lean a lot harder in the direction of demonstrating VR though. I.e. more puzzles and interactions that specifically highlight VR, similar to how a bunch of stuff in Half-Life 2 felt very "look at this tech" at times.

I do agree it kinda sucks for people who are just fans of Half-Life and don't care about VR. Because VR has a bunch of extra hurdles; you have to buy extra hardware, it's wired, you're completely isolated when using it, motion sickness, room space required etc.

 

[Deleted member 46922]

It is what it is, a VR game.
The thing I keep seeing is feeling entitlement for some Half Life non VR pc game.

That may come in the future or may not, but this was developed as a VR game, so why even think about a non-existent non-VR half Life?
They haven't been working on that, they've been working on a groundbreaking full experience single player VR game.

 

[Gold Arsene]

The day I have to get a VR headset is the day I quit gaming.

 

[Carlius]

I would actually play it lol

VR is still a poor value proposition. One "killer app" doesn't change that.

Click to shrink...

THREE KILLER APPS. and probably a new standard for the industry. i am down with it, bring it.

 

[Deleted member 46922]

The day I have to get a VR headset is the day I quit gaming.

Click to shrink...

If that makes you never play a game again...
you seemingly don't care about gaming that much in the first place, so that shouldn't be a big problem for you.

 

[Deleted member 437]

Innovate with a different franchise.

Give people without $500 peripherals a chance to continue the story of an IP that has been dormant for 12 years.

Right now, I'm just going to have to watch a playthrough of the fucking thing sadly.

 

[Gold Arsene]

If that makes you never play a game again...
you seemingly don't care about gaming that much in the first place, so that shouldn't be a big problem for you.

Click to shrink...

Is this fucking necessary? Sorry I have no interest in your precious VR, doesn't mean I don't like video games. Piss off with this nonsense.

 

[MrH]

I'm not paying £1000 to play Half Life, I could buy a top of the line GPU for that. VR just doesn't interest me in its current form, it's too expensive and there's just not enough top-quality content. It'll be better when you don't need to wear that massive mask and it drops massively in price.