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Let's talk about "Ubisoft caught reskinning Assassin's Creed Valhalla armor sets" TweakTown Article

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dex3108

dex3108

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Oct 26, 2017
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Almost 10 days ago we got this article that is now deleted but still cached by Google. In short article was about new free armor that Ubisoft gave during last Season and as part of the free goods box with new season launch. Unfortunately writer used harsh term "lazy" in the article so we got a lot of responses on Twitter from game developers regarding this (that is why article was removed).

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Ubisoft caught reskinning Assassin's Creed Valhalla armor sets

Ubisoft's new free Modraniht Yule armor set included with the 'godly reward' is a lazy reskin of existing Huntsman armor.
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Now let's talk about content support after game launched. In one hand it still costs to make content after launch but then they charge between 5-15$ for that content and that is up to 1/4 of the price of the full game. And in case of AC Valhalla where there are "low" amount of armors in main game and we reached point where there are same amount or more armors for sale in the MTX store is it really wrong to ask for more than reskinned content? As i said "lazy" remark is not justified but i am afraid that because of it entire point is lost. Main issue is not reskinning, main issue is that "rewards" feel intentionally "lower" quality than items sold in MTX store to push people to spend more money in game.
 
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elenarie

elenarie

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It was a bad article done by someone that has no idea how game dev works. No surprise that it was deleted after the whole dev community erupted on twitter about it.
 
Einbroch

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I mean, games use reskinned armor, weapons, enemies, NPCs, geology, and so on all the time. Game development is hard and time consuming, especially in 2020/2021.

I really doubt that they're intentionally making the armor look lame just to sell MTX. It's probably just not worth it to make a one-off model for DLC that a tiny fraction of the playerbase will even experience. Doesn't this game has like four billion hours of content already?

Edit: wait, this is a free event armor? Lol even more ridiculous
 
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Kalor

Kalor

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Oct 25, 2017
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Sure, if someone is paying for content that sets should ideally be new but this wasn't about that anyway. It was a free set for a limited time event so I don't really see the issue, even if it was reused. Most people won't even notice unless it's explicitly pointed out.
 
sredgrin

sredgrin

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Wasn't about just lazy, it was about acting like they 'caught' them. Like this was some egregious sin.

It's part of this greater conversation where certain segments of the audience feels like they need to defeat everything rather than experience it.
 
JorRaptor

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Feb 19, 2018
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Your point is not really correct, we now have 2 helix armor sets that were also based on excisting armor sets. I would even argue that the free Saint George's set from the River Raids is more exciting than those 2 helix gear pieces.
 
JuniperAndSage

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Basically every game dev on Twitter spent the last week shitting on that article, why not just listen to them, instead of rehashing it here?
 
MGPanda

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Feb 25, 2018
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I'm legitimately impressed by the amount of weird negative press AC Valhalla has been getting lately. Like, the game has tons of issues, but several websites as well as shitty youtubers like YongYea have been talking about how you need to "pay real life money" to use the new transmog feature. You pay 50 silver, the in-game currency. I have like 12k.
 
Grenchel

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It makes sense that the items sold would be higher quality because they are probably spending more time working on them, which is why it even has a piece tag.
 
Fat4all

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here
capcom CAUGHT reusing assets from resident evil 7 in REmake 2/3
 
benzopil

benzopil

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Damn I've missed all the discussions on Twitter and it's impossible to find them now

On topic: this is a non-issue, it's a free event with free rewards
 
elenarie

elenarie

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Wulfram said:
Reskinned armour is a pretty lame reward
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Yes, what they should do is rewrite their entire rendering pipeline, rearchitecture their asset creation pipeline, hire an external contracting firm to first create the armour in real life, then get their 3D artists to use photogrammetry to scan the armour, then oursource the tech setup for the items in game.

That would make it quite rewarding, because it won't be reskinned.
 
Sanka

Sanka

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Any threads on twitter about this?

But if it's free I don't get the complaining, if they want money just for a reskin of an armor set then that's bullshit. But at the same time I just wouldn't get it and ignore it. I would just view it as a way for them to make some quick and easy money. Especially if they combine it with high stats or abilities. Happens all the time.

Edit: Also was there even any outrage about it or just that article, because I hardly find anyone complaining about it.
 
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Deleted member 16876

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I don't know how skins work in Valhalla but the way I see it, if people don't like reskins then just don't buy them. I don't know if they still have the "loot box" thingy like Odyssey but if they do and this is how you get the reskins then people should stop buying them if they don't want reskins.

The devs release these skins because people don't want to stop buying them so why put effort (in covid no less) to make them standout if people will buy them anyway?
 

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dex3108 said:
Main issue is not reskinning, main issue is that "rewards" feel intentionally "lower" quality than items sold in MTX store to push people to spend more money in game.
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This is just "lazy devs" with an additional sprinkling of "greedy devs" not so cleverly disguised. As such I don't think it's worth engaging with.
 

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TweakTown caught using accusatory headlines for easy clicks.
 
Necromanti

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Reskins are love, reskins are life. There are better ways to talk about them. That said, that helmet barely qualifies as a palette swap, though. There are good and bad reskins.
 
Scottoest

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If it's free then there should be no expectations one way or another. If you're gonna charge $5+ dollars for it in a store, then it should have more work put into it.

But either way, that's not on dev "laziness", because it's not like they are making those decisions anyway. And lest we forget, there's not legislation mandating that you buy all of the DLC for a game. If something looks like a "lazy" palette swap to you, then don't buy it!
 
Sanka

Sanka

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Russell said:
They did with the Black Raven Set

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Also depends on the whole live service system they have going on. If they offer free updates with new stuff to do or other events then some simple recolours or reskins shouldn't be a big deal even if they cost money. Gotta look at the whole picture of what they are putting out.
 
Zexen

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elenarie said:
Yes, what they should do is rewrite their entire rendering pipeline, rearchitecture their asset creation pipeline, hire an external contracting firm to first create the armour in real life, then get their 3D artists to use photogrammetry to scan the armour, then oursource the tech setup for the items in game.

That would make it quite rewarding, because it won't be reskinned.
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Because that's obviously what this user asked for when he said a reskin is lame.


Sure reskins are not the most exciting stuffs, but in this case I fail to see how this causes a problem, as a free reward for whatever that is, I think it's fine.
 
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dex3108

dex3108

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McBradders said:
This is just "lazy devs" with an additional sprinkling of "greedy devs" not so cleverly disguised. As such I don't think it's worth engaging with.
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Devs have nothing to do with this. My comment is pointed towards higher ups who actually make these decisions. If it was up to devs in most cases they would offer way more for customers. So no it is not lazy devs or greedy devs it is greedy companies doing questionable things.
 
Kyuuji

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dex3108 said:
Devs have nothing to do with this. My comment is pointed towards higher ups who actually make these decisions. If it was up to devs in most cases they would offer way more for customers. So no it is not lazy devs or greedy devs it is greedy companies doing questionable things.
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There was a large developer response/backlash against the article and this 'reskins are bad' mentality though.
 

Wulfram

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elenarie said:
Yes, what they should do is rewrite their entire rendering pipeline, rearchitecture their asset creation pipeline, hire an external contracting firm to first create the armour in real life, then get their 3D artists to use photogrammetry to scan the armour, then oursource the tech setup for the items in game.

That would make it quite rewarding, because it won't be reskinned.
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Perhaps I shouldn't have said "reskin". I don't care about the development process, I care about the end result.

If your reward is a customisation option, then something you've already got but in a different shade of brown is a lame reward.
 
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dex3108

dex3108

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Kyuuji said:
There was a large developer response/backlash against the article and this 'reskins are bad' mentality though.
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I saw that and i agree that they are part of development. Asset reuse is absolutely normal and necessary thing for game development. My main issue at least in this Valhalla example is that intentions are muddied with introduction of MTX store. They introduced seasonal events where you do tasks and earn rewards. One of those rewards is armor we are talking about. Meanwhile they introduced way more armor packs in the store between events that cost i think up to 15$. Again that is fine they take time to make. But they could offer one of those armors for free each season as reward (that is more-less every 3 months) instead offering reskinned armor.
 
Kyuuji

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dex3108 said:
I saw that and i agree that they are part of development. Asset reuse is absolutely normal and necessary thing for game development. My main issue at least in this Valhalla example is that intentions are muddied with introduction of MTX store. They introduced seasonal events where you do tasks and earn rewards. One of those rewards is armor we are talking about. Meanwhile they introduced way more armor packs in the store between events that cost i think up to 15$. Again that is fine they take time to make. But they could offer one of those armors for free each season as reward (that is more-less every 3 months) instead offering reskinned armor.
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So the issue is that if they're going to run an event they should put in a bespoke armour set as a reward for it, as they're adding such armour sets to the store at the same time?
 
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dex3108

dex3108

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Kyuuji said:
So the issue is that if they're going to run an event they should put in a bespoke armour set as a reward for it, as they're adding such armour sets to the store at the same time?
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Not the same armor. If you have 4 seasonal events per year i think that you can offer 4 new armors for free while for example introduce 12 new armors to the store. Make events meaningful and rewarding. Currently events in Valhalla offer neither. Introducing MTXs in games in general made many things questionable not just this.
 
Kyuuji

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dex3108 said:
Not the same armor. If you have 4 seasonal events per year i think that you can offer 4 new armors for free while for example introduce 12 new armors to the store. Make events meaningful and rewarding. Currently events in Valhalla offer neither. Introducing MTXs in games in general made many things questionable not just this.
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Yeh, that's what I meant. Your issue is that if they're adding bespoke armour sets to the store they should also add (different) bespoke sets as free rewards for events if they're choosing to run them.
 
Nintendo

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People need to stop shaming companies for recycling assets. There should be even more recycling in game development.
 
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dex3108

dex3108

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Kyuuji said:
It blew up a few days ago, I believe the thread in the second tweet was one of the catalysts on the dev side.



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I agree for the most part but i can't agree with that executive part. Reason why AC Odyssey for example literally has same 6-7 camps is because someone above pushed for bigger world to be made in same timeframe as previous entries in the franchise. There you literally don't have a choice and you need to reuse assets as much as possible. And in general as i said before i am fine with that, it is distracting but it is necessary "evil" to push game out of the door. But when we talk about DLCs and in general post launch content in era where MTX are taking over as basically main revenue source (that is why we can see games 50% off 3 months later) i do tend to question some of those decisions.
 
SunBroDave

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dex3108 said:
Reason why AC Odyssey for example literally has same 6-7 camps is because someone above pushed for bigger world to be made in same timeframe as previous entries in the franchise.
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By someone above, are you talking about someone in management, or someone in creative? Because if management, then please provide a source for that claim, and if creative, then how is this different from literally every other game that ever gets made? If a massive open world was part of their creative vision, then what are you saying is the problem?
 

Wulfram

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Nintendo said:
People need to stop shaming companies for recycling assets. There should be even more recycling in game development.
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Meh, there's good asset re-use and bad asset re-use. If the players don't notice it, then its probably a good use. If you have to angrily berate users for not liking it, then it probably isn't.
 
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