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The Bear

The Bear

Forest Animal
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
4,191
==== DAY 3 VOTES ====
Day Start

fandorin (4 votes)
sawneeks - #2,964
thechuggernaut - #3,097
malus - #3,527
sorian - #3,546

faddy (4 votes)
fantomas - #2,985
fluxwavez - #2,996
ceecee - #3,163
blargonaut - #3,494

malus (2 votes)
brazil - #3,017
natiko - #3,335

(1 votes)
fireblend - #3,550

brazil (1 votes)
faddy - #3,289

ceecee (1 votes)
ezekelrage - #2,961

lone_prodigy (1 votes)
dr. monkey - #3,114 #3,142
dr. monkey - #3,209

ezekelrage (0 votes)
blargonaut - #3,152 #3,494

zubz (0 votes)
blargonaut - #3,105 #3,152

pirate bae (0 votes)
dr. monkey - #3,142 #3,209

Post Counts:
blargonaut: 65 fantomas: 63 fran: 49 dr. monkey: 46 sorian: 43 fluxwavez: 35 ezekelrage: 34 sawneeks: 33 brazil: 32 faddy: 26 natiko: 23 fandorin: 22 kyanrute: 20 thechuggernaut: 19 rac: 18 ceecee: 13 ketkat: 11 absolutbro: 11 grizzly: 9 malus: 8 pirate bae: 6 lone_prodigy: 5 fireblend: 6

Click here to go to the Vote Tool!
 

Fran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,167
Scum can definitely make mistakes, but that's more than just a little mistake! He was yelling at people to lynch someone who was town, which would only make him look bad in the process too. Like, yeah, it could buy scum a day which is always nice, but throwing himself out there like that just feels so different from what I would expect from scum you know!

Noone would have been to hard on Brazil if Flux flipped town D2 because town mislynching town happen. Even more when we don't know Turmoil's aligment so we aren't sure if there was scum in that fight.

I also didn't expected Scum!Turmoil to make that really bad claim but he did it anyway.

scum, if you were interesting you'd have a gimmick like killing down the player list in rising numerical order but randomly skipping a player to throw your pattern off

You wanted to use the same strategy when we were scums partner in Gafia 3. Interesting, right?

so I'm not just turning into a shitpost machine with my Confirmed Town status, don't worry.

Why?? It's the fun part of being a confirmed townie. You can shitpost all you want and noone can say anything about it.

You guys just cool with letting CC pass as town?

I already said that I don't trust CeeCee but with Faddy or Brazil as probable lynchs today I prefer to go for those. Also both of them have connections to CeeCee so it could help.

So our chat isn't exactly overflowing with love (5 posts each) but there's one post that is a thorn in my eye.
When I asked CeeCee how he felt about Faddy, he responded with how he didn't feel great about him and how he reminded him of a couple of games he played with him where Faddy was scum.
Now that reasoning is obviously bullshit, since according to Faddy, Brexit 2 was his first time playing as scum and CeeCee wasn't in that game.

Not sure if that's really alignment indicative since he could just have alluded to that game if he passively followed it, but it jumped out to me as if he wanted to get me to vote for Faddy as well. He voted Faddy right after that interaction too.

And what's your opinion about that? Is CeeCee scum trying to push for a Town!Faddy mislynch or is he busing his partner?

Side note: blarg does raise an interesting point about there being no mod warning for the highlight use.

When cc made the post I expected some power to happen.

To me it seems that he just fucked up his vote. And is likely that Grizzly didn't say anything because the vote tool is taking the vote correctly.


Vote: Brazil

I'm okay with a Faddy or Fandorin lynch. Or Rac.
 

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Member
Oct 24, 2017
18,392
São Paulo, Brazil
i usually dislike harping on time stamps but we all voted at the same time. Their votes weren't there when I hit post.
That's some crazy synchronism from you three, then.

Then I'm back to my previous position. I don't think too much of Saw not waiting for that question to be answered with so little time left in the phase.

Also I'm not a fan of this reaction by Brazil to rac not giving any reason for his vote and just accepts it. I guess he just assumes that rac has the same read as him, but that still looks pretty lazy to me.
That's a whole lot of assumptions. It's pretty clear that rac didn't have a reason lined up for that vote. If "You're mean" is what he could come up with when asked, that's all I need to know.

What's weird is you accepting that rac vote. You never even asked him directly about it - you just threw some light shade at him and voted elsewhere. Is he your scummate?
 

FluxWaveZ

Persona Central
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
10,887
Faddy Stuff

Cabot is suspect with all his easy/dumb questions but that is really weak. Geno for being a bit too sensible early on and I agree that Ket Kat has been weirder than usual with her overly tedious randomness comments. So they would all be in my shoot pool.
Oh Terraforce should be on that list. I might shoot him too.
List of people he would shoot on D1 if elected. All are known town (except for KetKat, who we're currently giving the benefit of the doubt via Pirate Bae).

Worth noting, he agrees with the list of people Stanley would have shot (minus himself and CeeCee) that consists of:
Fran
Kawl (wait shit no he literally just dropped out)
rac
Malus
KetKat
CeeCee
Faddy
Geno

Your reasoning was weak. Add Geno, cabot, flux, Fran and a few others who seemed happy to follow Sorian's read and look busy little scum hunters
Gives a list of people (including Monkey) who were apparently "following" Sorian (we weren't) concerning why we were suspect of Sophia on D1. Everyone named is pretty much known town, except for Monkey (who I town read).

This isn't a hard stance, never lynching Ceecee - I have learned from conspiracy - but I don't think it is the right place to go for today.
No hard stance on lynching CeeCee, but he's sure been adamant about defending him this entire game.

When it comes down to it, Faddy's continued to give me a bad feeling. I disagree with most of his reads. His sources of friction have all mainly been with people we now know are town. turmoil was never in his sights, even in D2 where turmoil was a primary target. Had nothing more to say about him other than "null read."

Then there's the part where, at day end yesterday, he tried his best to discredit my position to get me lynched, also going so far as to try to imply I could still have been targeted by the investigation role if I commuted.
He wasn't on Fran's final list and only meme self voted after I said that votes don't matter because of the override
Just because he commutes doesn't necessarily mean Turmoil can't get a check on him depending on how Bear chooses to do things.
I guarantee you that if I had been lynched, he would have used this line to enforce the narrative that turmoil could have still investigated me even though I commuted to further legitimize his claim, and also remove suspicion from himself for gunning for me.

My vote will remain on Faddy.
 

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Member
Oct 24, 2017
18,392
São Paulo, Brazil
-#2752 comments that Malus "was probably meming" with the graph and that there wasn't much to read into it.
giphy.gif


Literally all that accompanied that vote

"He's probably memeing"
 

FluxWaveZ

Persona Central
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
10,887

FluxWaveZ

Persona Central
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
10,887
To get my other vote determined, I'm going to vote The Price is Right for the next modifier. It's hard to gauge what games other than Love Boat will do (especially since I wasn't in them), but they're high on the list of what Fran and Fantomas would want, plus I'd like to get the items speculation out of the way.

But if there's another weird push for HvV, I swear I'm going to pile on so that I can see why scum people want it so much, and then we can add in another legitimate area of scum hunting to the proceedings consisting of the night votes.
 

malus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,947
That's some crazy synchronism from you three, then.

Then I'm back to my previous position. I don't think too much of Saw not waiting for that question to be answered with so little time left in the phase.


That's a whole lot of assumptions. It's pretty clear that rac didn't have a reason lined up for that vote. If "You're mean" is what he could come up with when asked, that's all I need to know.

What's weird is you accepting that rac vote. You never even asked him directly about it - you just threw some light shade at him and voted elsewhere. Is he your scummate?
Well I accused him of voting for me out of the blue. That is pretty much a question why he did it. He is one of my scum suspects, but not my top suspect.

So you think that Faddy is town?
If CeeCee is scum, yes.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Poor Sorian is about to learn why I try not to play mafia in the morning before I've had coffee or while trying to get ready for work because I have about 23590 posts in the boat that zigzag all around.

Fando, can we talk about this read?

I decided to read back on D2 Faddy since it looks like today's lynch will be between me and him. Comments on posts that got my attention with a conclusion at the end.

-------------------------

- #2517 comments he likes Chuggs and is surprised Fantomas is pushing a scum read on him. Mentions his dislike of Brazil shot on Terra while throwing some shade at Fireblend, mentioning he has been "elusive" this game without an actual stance.

- #2527 explains more about his Fireblend and Brazil read. He also comments KetKat's scum read on Fantomas and agrees with her. He then offers a quick read list. Town: Fran, Chuggs and CeeCee (for their claims), cabot as top town read, Fandorin, Sorian and Natiko. Scum: The coasting group (KetKat, Zubz, kyan, malus, AB), rac and Flux as top scum read, developing a bit on that read with quotes.

- #2562 responding Brazil, he gives detailed readings on Sorian, Natiko and Monkey, orders them as Sorian > Natko > Monkey.

- #2612 pushes Sawneeks while commenting on her shade on Fantomas, in which she said "Fantomas was playing like I play scum". Faddy commented that Neeks initially had Fantomas as town in her read list, but then backed off it later saying he was scummy "for the same reasons".

#2671 orders Fran's list, with rac as the scummiest and turmoil as a null read right in the middle. Has Pirate Bae as likely town based on her interactions with Fantomas, who he was scum reading.

SCUM
Rac
Ketkat
Fantomas
Blarg
Turmoil
Pirate Bae
CeeCee
Chuggs
TOWN

- #2679 in a conversation with absolutbro, comments that he and Fantomas were scum reading each other, later tries to clarify it on #2683 after Fantomas calls him out. Mentions that there were posts where Fantomas hedged him as scum, but doesn't link to anything.

- #2685 puts a vote down for Flux while lamenting that reads don't actually mattered this phase due to Fran's override gun.

-#2752 comments that Malus "was probably meming" with the graph and that there wasn't much to read into it.

-#2836, #2846, #2874 and #2901 are the posts where he pushes for Flux lynch after turmoil fake claimed. Differently than Brazil did, he considers more mechanics when calling out, mentioning that "a commuter could still be targeted depending on the gamemaster". In the first reaction post to the mess, quoted below, Faddy mentions "This is not the mindset of vanilla town", and I found a bit peculiar how he adds the word "vanilla" in there. What difference would it make if this was the mindset of a Town PR?



---------------------
Conclusion:

Overall, I town lean Faddy. I understand the concerns on his day end last phase, though he wouldn't be my vote this phase (my read list coming up soon).

He expressed most of his reads well, considering we couldn't really pressure vote and that the discussion ended being limited to the names Fran put out. I liked his Sawneeks read, and his Fantomas progression as well. His initial scum read on Sawneeks began due to a comment on Fantomas, who he admittedly had a eye on, so that felt genuine. Faddy what is your take on Neeks this phase? If you commented on it already, I didn't catch it so I'm sorry.

It is worth noting that, despite being his biggest scum read, Faddy had a big post going pressuring Flux but then didn't mention him again until he voted for him in the last few hours of the day. He wasn't on Fran's list and Faddy sorta carried his scum read from D1, but could be the scum team wanted to pressure Flux after finding out, somehow, that he was a PR at N1.

My take on the final stretch of D2 is that scum could've reacted both ways after turmoil fake claimed: a) prepare the bus since his flip was inevitable one way or another after the claim, or b) find footing and push against Flux, hoping turmoil's gambit pans out to give scum that "extra lynch". I can see Faddy fitting into that second category, considering he could use his game long scum read on him as cover. I can see why some want to lynch him for this.

His offhand comment on malus is noteworthy though. If one of them flips scum, I'd look back and see if there are weird interactions there.

You townread (or lean) Faddy but as I go through this, it looks to me like it's actually not super townie? You've got contradictions and the focus on Flux makes it look like he could well be teamed with turmoil. You also say he expressed his reads well when he couldn't pressure vote but then note occasions in which he was wrong or backed off.

How do you come to the conclusion he's town if this is your read on him?
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
I just told Sorian in our boat that I'm confident in him.

If he betrays me, this is my record.

Top 10 anime betrayals

——

Since the modifier stuff is coming up again, I'm fine with price is right or HvV. HvV sounds more fun and bullshit laden which might force people out of their comfort zones but if there are actually items in this game, either of those should have them (I still don't think there are items in this game)
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
I'll be back in a bit again but TheChuggernaut remind me again why you are voting Fandorin right now. I scrolled back to your vote and you were actually calling Kyan scummy in the posts around there, I didn't see anything on Fand (though I admit it was a quick skim because I have to get back to work)
 

Fran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,167
Since the modifier stuff is coming up again, I'm fine with price is right or HvV. HvV sounds more fun and bullshit laden which might force people out of their comfort zones but if there are actually items in this game, either of those should have them (I still don't think there are items in this game)

I don't think there are items like the ones HvV had. I think there will be chests with BP, maybe a gun or something like that.
 

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Member
Oct 24, 2017
18,392
São Paulo, Brazil
malus isn't even pretending to look at rac, who's actively making a super weird vote against him, and instead just votes Fandorin based on secondhand arguments in clear self-preservation. That, combined with my read of Fand, tells me that I'm on the right path with my current vote.

The only two players who seem interested in working out Fandorin are Sawneeks and Monkey. The rest of the thread seem to just be defaulting into that suspicion ("I'm ok with that lynch") without even engaging with him in the thread.

The only reason why I was suspecting Fand was his initial reaction to Pirate Bae's claim. He's since then explained that, and I understood what he meant when her wording gave him the idea that she was readying up something more at that time.

To me, the turmoil posts about Fand actually give him town credit, and not otherwise. The way turmoil seemingly latched on to Fandorin with no build-up feels completely artificial, which is why I noticed it back then. I don't think that turmoil actually set out to make Fand into a leader there - I think he simply saw people talking positively about Fand, and decided to go with that for his D1 stance. I would be shocked if it turned out that turmoil messed up that badly in incriminating his own teammate.

Fand didn't talk with turmoil about his support for the leader position, but he didn't talk about it with me, Monkey, Faddy or Chugger - the other players who had voted for him at one point - either. Singling one of those instances out when he reacted the same way to everyone in a position similar to turmoil's doesn't tell me much.

Through our interactions in our boat, which piled up on top of my late D1 read of him, I'm 100% sure that Fand is town. Fandorin started this phase really excited and that completely waned as it went on. If he was scum and his connection to turmoil had been so obvious, he would immediately have tried to defuse that when we started talking. Instead, he seemed very chill, and seemed to get visibly sad when pointing out that people other than Saw were ignoring his posts.
 

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Member
Oct 24, 2017
18,392
São Paulo, Brazil
Another thing about Fand: he's still trying to figure me out in ingenious ways, and not simply trying to buy my favor in his privileged position of having a direct line to me.
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
I'll be back in a bit again but TheChuggernaut remind me again why you are voting Fandorin right now. I scrolled back to your vote and you were actually calling Kyan scummy in the posts around there, I didn't see anything on Fand (though I admit it was a quick skim because I have to get back to work)
Why has Chuggs placed half his votes this game?

The more I think about Fandorin's read on Faddy it does not feel like town reading maybe town. It reads like either scum trying to help a mislynch along without getting their hands too dirty or a scummate trying to semi-town read a scummate while leaving space to later say "well, i did say this, at least."

It almost makes me want to switch my vote to Faddy to see what Fandorin does. But I want to hear his response first.
 

malus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,947
malus isn't even pretending to look at rac, who's actively making a super weird vote against him, and instead just votes Fandorin based on secondhand arguments in clear self-preservation. That, combined with my read of Fand, tells me that I'm on the right path with my current vote.
What the hell is this? So it only counts if I go "Rac why u voting me?" or what?
 

Dr. Monkey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,029
Through our interactions in our boat, which piled up on top of my late D1 read of him, I'm 100% sure that Fand is town. Fandorin started this phase really excited and that completely waned as it went on. If he was scum and his connection to turmoil had been so obvious, he would immediately have tried to defuse that when we started talking. Instead, he seemed very chill, and seemed to get visibly sad when pointing out that people other than Saw were ignoring his posts.
Who's ignoring him? I haven't gone line by line through his earlier responses, but people have commented on his posts.
 

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Member
Oct 24, 2017
18,392
São Paulo, Brazil
What the hell is this? So it only counts if I go "Rac why u voting me?" or what?
Dude, look at your post.

Fandorin seems quite insistent to point out that he is town. Also he didn't bring anything new to the table so far and hasn't put forward any reads. Instead he spends most of his time defending Turmoils connection with him. This all doesn't read very good to me and puts him into scum territory.

I'm still suspicious of rac: So far he has spent the whole day defending his vote for Flux at eod 2. In this process he brought up several times that Flux could as well be scum and have bussed Turmoil. In the end he votes for me (with a wrongly formatted vote by the way) out of the blue.

Also I'm not a fan of this reaction by Brazil to rac not giving any reason for his vote and just accepts it. I guess he just assumes that rac has the same read as him, but that still looks pretty lazy to me.

Faddy gives me a strange feeling. He doesn't seem as insisting on his reads as in other games and to me he comes across to be trying to stay a bit in the background. But I like that he brings up different viewpoints other than just repeating what the confirmed town members have to say.

For now I think I'll go here:
vote: Fandorin
You've been talking about having a bad "gut read" of rac ever since D1 when I asked you who your top 3 scum were, and when he moves to vote for you in a completely unexplained way, the most you can muster is "I'm still suspicious of him", and you vote elsewhere?

You didn't even quote him directly - instead, you quoted my reaction to that vote, making assumptions about why I made it.
 

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
boy I sure hope Fireblend didn't post anything important in our chat because wow have I not opened that thread at all
Why are all of my love boat experiences like this. Am I not worthy of love?

Why?? It's the fun part of being a confirmed townie. You can shitpost all you want and noone can say anything about it.
True, I should probably take advantage of the status while I have it.
I'm going to vote The Price is Right for the next modifier
Yes!
But, this does make HvV sound tempting now... Still gunna go Price is Right at first though.
You townread (or lean) Faddy but as I go through this, it looks to me like it's actually not super townie? You've got contradictions and the focus on Flux makes it look like he could well be teamed with turmoil. You also say he expressed his reads well when he couldn't pressure vote but then note occasions in which he was wrong or backed off.

How do you come to the conclusion he's town if this is your read on him?
Gunna have to agree here, I do not see how that recap lands on a Faddy town-read.

---------------------------------------------------------------

Updated read list coming next.
 

Fanto

Is this tag ok?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,863
Not a whole lot has changed here, but I do have some thoughts on some players I think are worthy of suspicion as we continue forward with the game for one reason or another at this point in time.

Town As Fuck:
Fran
FluxWaveZ

Town Claims:
CeeCee
Pirate Bae
KetKat

Town Reads:
Dr. Monkey
EzekelRAGE
Fireblend
AbsolutBro

Lean Town:
Brazil
Sorian
Blargonaut
Kyanrute

My Love Boat:
Rac - So, thoughts on Rac: He was a lot more engaged with me in our private chat today than he was here in the thread with you all. He was giving me reads, he was going back and looking over players and their posts, bouncing thoughts off of me while doing so. He responded to any questions I had for him. People have been noting his vote for Malus, but I can tell you all that he did do a deep dive on Malus in our chat, he thinks he's Scum. If Rac is Scum, he fooled me damn good, GG Rac, but I'm Town Leaning him now. All around, I think Rac is a cool guy and I like him. Would not want to see him lynched today.

Light Suspicion:
Sawneeks - Possible bus vote, can't ignore my dead Mason partner's thoughts on her, if she is Scum she did seem to be wanting to find a reason to lynch Flux but then went for the bus when she couldn't find it. Fandorin flipping Scum would put her in Town for sure though. Fando flipping Town, re-evaluate.

Natiko - Possible bus vote, get a paranoid feeling like he might have been pocketing me too. Will be keeping an eye on him at the least.

Worthy of Suspicion:
Lone_Prodigy - Not much to go on from him or his predecessors. Vote analysis is LP's thing regardless from my experience, so it's NAI to me.

TheChuggernaut - It is a possible bus vote even though I would say it's highly unlikely, but when I combine that with what I would consider the most suspect role claim in the game so far (1-Shot BP), it definitely means he is worthy of suspicion as we move into later days.

Scum Suspects/Lynch Targets:
Fandorin
Faddy
malus
 

Brazil

Actual Brazilian
Member
Oct 24, 2017
18,392
São Paulo, Brazil
Who's ignoring him? I haven't gone line by line through his earlier responses, but people have commented on his posts.
People are commenting generally on the situation around him, but they're not engaging with him. Look no further than your boat partner. He's been talking literally all day about this "Brazil-Fandorin" dichotomy and hasn't quoted Fandorin once in this entire phase. The most he's done is mention us in passing in his "summary" posts (below; notice the wording in "I'm also following those posts") - but not a single question towards Fand from the usually inquisitive and nitpicking Sorian. He simply rode shotgun on your own read of Fand all the way to his vote.

I'm also following the Fando posts and as I said, I think one of him and Brazil are scum. There's good cases against both but I don't think they are scum together.

Brazil, you parse his read on Faddy. How does he lean town while saying all that?
I'll let him elaborate on his own reads, but I don't see what's contradictory about his overall lean. He's listed some positives (like the natural progression on Faddy's reads of some players), and some negatives. The only thing that really stood out to me in that ISO as a big negative was the comment about malus' data graph stuff, and he made note of that as well.
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
I don't think I'll have the luxury of voting for my scum reads, so I'll share my reads list, sorta in order and without leans.

Too lazy to make comments on confirmed town right now. I consider KetKat and Pirate Bae confirmed since I find it hard to believe we wouldn't get a counter claim and a roleblocker on Bae explains why cabot was targeted.

CONFIRMED TOWN

Fantomas
Fran
KetKat
Pirate Bae

SORTA CONFIRMED TOWN

Flux - I don't care for his contributions, dislike his idea for a turbo and his case on me is pure lazyness, but w/e, I doubt he's scum after turmoil's gambit. If he's alive after all the mess, just do him in.

TOWN READS

Fireblend - Specifically pointed out turmoil as the odd one out in Brazil's list after he voted for Stan. Good contributions besides that and good presence. Sad that he couldn't participate this phase, but even so a solid town read.

Natiko - Carried over from the rest of the game. Worried that he might be having a great game as scum, especially since I felt some waffling in his stance on me and his gigantic pre-typed post this phase, but still a strong player to keep around and no scummy vibes yet.

Absolutbro - Scum hunting, good reads lists and the strong voice pushing for turmoil's lynch after the fake claim. Could be more present, but seems on top of his game.

Kyanrute - Paying close attention to his scum reads and doing his fair share of hunting. Together with AB, his initial reaction was to question turmoil's claim.

TheChuggernaut - I don't even think he explained his read on me besides sheeping Neeks, which is, unfortunately, a townie move for him. I mean, the fact that he's content with his contributions this phase after his "not that believable claim", gives him more town points to me than anything else he so far. Scum after fake claiming wouldn't skate by like this (yeah, yeah WIFOM w/e).

Sawneeks - Good progression on her reads. I liked her initial contributions and had her leaning town before, despite having a few doubts here and there , but her D3 has been mostly focused on me and I know that's a wrong move which is making me question her alignment.
I thought I had convinced her with one of my posts, but instead I felt she morphed her argument to something innocuous that I can't defend myself from. In the end, I don't think Scum! Neeks would link herself so hard to my lynch though, but let's see how much credit with town she has then.

Dr. Monkey - Same could be said about Monkey, I guess. Her push on me this phase is negatively coloring my perception against her though. I'm looking forward to her follow up on me to see where I stand on her. I'm also town reading her paranoia posts with Sorian, which could be fluff but read as something deeper to me.

Blargonaut - Whatever. He seems to be at least posting some content now.

Faddy - My ISO on him explains it already. A minor town read, though I get the concerns over his EoD after he pushed for Flux lynch.

CeeCee - Want to link to my previous theory on him which still holds water to me. I think his claim looks town, but his contributions aren't anything to brag about. If his activity remains as it is, I believe only more flips and further balance theory crafting can crack this read.

Sorian - He has demonstrated attention to all players and topics of the game, which is something I don't expect Scum! Sorian to do (at least he wouldn't address it at the main thread, like he is doing now, and keep it to the scum chat). His interest on the reads between me and Brazil also seem genuine. And generally he has good posts.

I do think he reacted perfectly for a scum in D2 EoD: after turmoil claimed and Flux denied it, he was incisive in that we should flip one of them. He didn't really say who we should flip first though and hit his 30 posts up before he could outright declare who he wanted to lynch that day. Up until that point he was pretty harsh on Flux and seemed to favor lynching him, like on post #2804, while I don't remember his stance on turmoil. I think that's the best move for scum in that scenario, avoiding taking an actual stance between Flux and turmoil.

BRAZIL READ

Really hard read to me right now.

Meta read that I've shared on our boat is that when I'm getting heat and under lynch pressure and he's scum he tends to just side step and watch it from afar. I see him doing that right now, since despite vouching for me earlier, he never really followed up. He was actually the only one that seemed bothered by the "role fishing" I did asking "if Pirate Bae could share her proof on Ketkat", and used that to downgrade his town read on me without much thought. Seemed to me like he just wanted an excuse.

At the same time his presence in the thread reads genuine to me. He has prodded others and pushes his targets well, and we have similar reads on others. With what we know, like Fireblend pointed out, turmoil ran over to Stan's kill list on D1 after Brazil put him in his kill list. The scenario make sense, especially considering that turmoil was also working up to me as well, since I didn't have him on my list as well and that wouldn't make sense if Brazil was scum after all.

He's the closest to a scum read I have right now, but still not willing to vote. If he is scum, he won't go far in this game I believe.

SCUM READS

rac - Doesn't seem the usual. I don't think I see real reason to keep giving him slack until now. The fact that he didn't read the rules of the Cthulhu modifier is worrying. At best he's just really not that involved with the game, at worst he just doesn't care about it since he doesn't have to worry about voting for anyone anyway as scum.

Ezekel - Working with the very little we have, of course, but I can see the something about the player slot. Zubz had a fair share of suspicions and subbed out after getting heat throughout the days. Come Zeke and I feel he's trying to distance from that image by being noisy. It is his playstyle at times, but he picked some weird topics to get hang up and I get the feeling some of that isn't sincere.

malus - He hasn't added much since D1. Has weird posts pushing others without an actual angle and OMGUS: his vote on me was terribad. I don't think he has a single post addressing Neeks or Monkey's case on me and he instead just glossed over what I posted and pointed out I say I'm town too much. Is that a secret scum infallible scum tell somehow? I will vote here today.

VOTE: malus
Will obviously move my vote if need be.
 

rac

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,110
unvote

I could also get behind Fandorin as leader. I quite liked his kill list and he hasn't set off any alarms for me yet.

Not sure about cabot. I don't really agree with his point of eliminating hard to read players to get them out of the way.

fandorin's kill list

My kill list at the moment, with Terra as the most likely:

Terra
Ketkat
Fran
Flux
Zubz
CeeCee

so is this just because terra is most likely fando's kill or what? cause at this point not sure you mentioned anyone else really

Flux' most recent posts haven't really filled me with confidence in him. He would currently be my pick for the lynch.
Originally I wanted Fran to flip first, but with his new gambit, I prefer Flux over him. I know this whole "I'll prove I'm town tomorrow" is kind of weak, but it's better than nothing and will probably give some information either way.

Flux, Fran, rac.

rac is mostly a gut read, but I got kind of a strange feeling from him.

Stats! :D


Vote: Pirate Bae

did fran's list make you forget about flux here?

after bae's and turmoil's claim finally back to flux

But this whole thing is moot now anyway with the role claim. So if Fran doesn't use the override I hope people who haven't voted yet go for Flux now.

but now shading me today for trying to change my vote? how does that make sense

vote: malus
 

malus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,947
Your answer to Sorian is still linked with CeeCee's flip. But CeeCee doesn't seem that will be the lynch today but Faddy could be.

So, why town?
Mostly guts. My head tells me scum, but my guts disagree.

unvote



fandorin's kill list



so is this just because terra is most likely fando's kill or what? cause at this point not sure you mentioned anyone else really







did fran's list make you forget about flux here?

after bae's and turmoil's claim finally back to flux



but now shading me today for trying to change my vote? how does that make sense

vote: malus
I liked Fandos kill list in general and not specifically because Terra was there. What makes you even think it was because of Terra anyway? I think I had even said I didn't scum read him at that point

Also the "Flux,Fran,rac" quote is from D1 and the next quote is end of D2, so plenty of time to adjust my reads. Flux would probably have been next on the list if Fran had included him.

Why wouldn't I shade you for trying to change your vote without reasoning? That point doesn't make sense.
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
Another thing about Fand: he's still trying to figure me out in ingenious ways, and not simply trying to buy my favor in his privileged position of having a direct line to me.

What ingenious ways is he trying to figure you out?


People are commenting generally on the situation around him, but they're not engaging with him. Look no further than your boat partner. He's been talking literally all day about this "Brazil-Fandorin" dichotomy and hasn't quoted Fandorin once in this entire phase. The most he's done is mention us in passing in his "summary" posts (below; notice the wording in "I'm also following those posts") - but not a single question towards Fand from the usually inquisitive and nitpicking Sorian. He simply rode shotgun on your own read of Fand all the way to his vote.




I'll let him elaborate on his own reads, but I don't see what's contradictory about his overall lean. He's listed some positives (like the natural progression on Faddy's reads of some players), and some negatives. The only thing that really stood out to me in that ISO as a big negative was the comment about malus' data graph stuff, and he made note of that as well.

Yeah, I figured I was the one being referenced, I'm aware. For the shitty answer to this, Fand's posts are really long and they become very difficult to manage when I quote them and try to cut them down or even just scroll around to highlight different things. That's not it on its own though. I'm talking through my thoughts on his posts in our boat and then Monkey ends up coming over here and hitting all the points anyway. I don't feel the need to reiterate the exact same things again. The one difference of opinion I have from her is that I have more worry on you than she does and I did say this part above but what's pinging me is that he has stayed calm through all of this and you were tilting a bit yesterday (and even a bit now with this defense), I think you are both good scum players who are good at staying cold and factual sounding when the heat comes down and I think you letting loose more in here is indicative of having less modes to do it in the background (like a scum chat).
 

Fandorin

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,356
Poor Sorian is about to learn why I try not to play mafia in the morning before I've had coffee or while trying to get ready for work because I have about 23590 posts in the boat that zigzag all around.

Fando, can we talk about this read?



You townread (or lean) Faddy but as I go through this, it looks to me like it's actually not super townie? You've got contradictions and the focus on Flux makes it look like he could well be teamed with turmoil. You also say he expressed his reads well when he couldn't pressure vote but then note occasions in which he was wrong or backed off.

How do you come to the conclusion he's town if this is your read on him?

What occasions he was wrong or backed off you mean? Going post by post I think his only weird interaction (besides the malus post that I mentioned) was that one where he mentioned that Fantomas was scum reading him, despite Fantomas himself denied that. He later responded that Fantomas had some posts hedging him as scum and that was one of the reasons why he was scum reading him. It's kinda a weird interaction, but makes sense in that Faddy would be more self-concious of other's reads on him, and I don't see any benefit for Scum! Faddy to lie here.

I think I've might've worded the statement below weirdly. I meant that he accused Sawneeks of backing down from her town read on Fantomas for the same reasons she later scum read him for.

-#2612 pushes Sawneeks while commenting on her shade on Fantomas, in which she said "Fantomas was playing like I play scum". Faddy commented that Neeks initially had Fantomas as town in her read list, but then backed off it later saying he was scummy "for the same reasons".

I thought about the focus on Flux, but that began for turmoil on D2, after, I believe, the scum team used some role on Flux. Faddy on the other hand was scum reading Flux since D1. He carried over that scum read to D2, so I can't really link that to his potential scummate turmoil.