What was defensive about it?
Odd that you characterize it that way instead of me pointing out how Maol was kinda contradictory.
Metal Gear Solid Mafia Redux |OT| I'll Die After I Kill You
- Thread starter Natiko
- Start date
Odd that you characterize it that way instead of me pointing out how Maol was kinda contradictory.
Okay, my initial take on Feign's rather vague role claim is that his power has non-zero odds of blowing up in town's face and unintentionally wiping out multiple players. If that is the case, giving town a heads up about a role with a possible threat to town is in town's interest. I've been placed in a tough spot about whether to claim or not from a weird role in a previous game, so I can understand the logic, if I am correct.
Feign's international vagueness makes it hard to understand how his role actually works though. However, I don't see the logic behind a neutral or scum with a big killing power making a big announcement of it on day 1.
In any case, I have the feeling that we will understand Feign's power sooner rather than later, if it is anything like what he hinted at. That being the case, I'm content to leave this mess as a question for Day 2.
Feign's international vagueness makes it hard to understand how his role actually works though. However, I don't see the logic behind a neutral or scum with a big killing power making a big announcement of it on day 1.
In any case, I have the feeling that we will understand Feign's power sooner rather than later, if it is anything like what he hinted at. That being the case, I'm content to leave this mess as a question for Day 2.
I read that interation
I mean maol puts u down as flipping town and then lists u as someone who they would vote off
I called it defensive since u dedicated a whole zeke post to it
honestly looking back at it
maol's response to ur post was a bit strange, calling you a wildcard? and not wanting you to do anything crazy
just confusing
Whats a scum maol like?
I remember that claim. That seems different - the fallout was out of your control. Fate being able to control it is a whole other beast. I'm really not sure how to feel about it.
I think I'm going to bed early.
Before i go to bed, i will give my thoughts on the Feign claim
1. it was unprompted, there was no pressure for a role claim
2. the role claim of a vig day 1 is pretty rare
3. the claim was done because feign must be able to survive a scum fraction kill
4. maybe they could be a trigger to another role, claiming now that they wont be around for a next few hours could have been done to avoid another person activating their role
my only guess is that its two people in one body, this could be a liquid snake/ocelot situation
1. it was unprompted, there was no pressure for a role claim
2. the role claim of a vig day 1 is pretty rare
3. the claim was done because feign must be able to survive a scum fraction kill
4. maybe they could be a trigger to another role, claiming now that they wont be around for a next few hours could have been done to avoid another person activating their role
my only guess is that its two people in one body, this could be a liquid snake/ocelot situation
ugh, i have zero enthusiasm to play today.
everyone i think staying up past 5am was a bad idea
everyone i think staying up past 5am was a bad idea
I thought I'd check the vote tool before I went to bed and no one but jman moved to Feign after all that?
I'm here and caught up, gunna get some kind of a read list put together here to get my thoughts together on things because the game feels kind of formless in my mind right now, so I need to structure that shit by staring at the player list for a while and figuring out how I feel about everyone.
I just cant see a neutral or scum making a play like that
Sorry that first part was from an earlier draft.
Remove meta/me/maol from the equation.
If you read the exchange I listed.
Does it not look odd that he is following monkey like that? That he believes I am town but would still vote me today?
I feel like I should clarify before you get stuck in a tunnel that saying that the odds are that you are town after being asked how you'd flip if shot does not mean I think you are town or am currently town reading you.
As far as the whole Chuggernaut voting for Ty4on thing, I am not sure that I can make an unbiased read on that. The last time I played with Chuggs, he was my partner in Love Boat 3, and I leaned heavily on his reads to get through that game. I don't think I've deprogrammed myself from thinking "I trust Chuggernaut's opinions" yet. Give me a day or two.
On the other hand, as much as I still bear a bit of a grudge towards EzekelRAGE, I think he has a good point about Maol's weird and inconsistent echoing of Monkey's reads.
On the other hand, as much as I still bear a bit of a grudge towards EzekelRAGE, I think he has a good point about Maol's weird and inconsistent echoing of Monkey's reads.
Did I miss something or did we go from "Hmm what exactly is Feign" to "we must vote him out" rather quickly?
And you'd pick a low activity poster where you'd learn next to nothing regardless of the flip, over someone who's at the centre of discussion?
So Ephidel do you think you could tell if your FGO buddies were acting scummy or not? Do you think FateShirou is acting like town or like scum (like he was in Fate/Mafia)?
I feel like this is too detailed to be role speculation.
I was fine with Feign until he started very specific info about his role out of nowhere. Like I said, if he was town-aligned, what does he gain from claiming on Day 1? Personally the whole ordeal is weird to me but people seem fine to let it slide for a day so it is what it is.
To your second point, I mean it's much easier for a mafia to lay low in the background rather than be the center of attention unless they really want to drive discussion. What benefit does town get from keeping people alive that are not contributing to any discussion? For mafia, if the discussion is moving in a way that doesn't implicate any of the members, they simply don't need to say anything and it'll benefit them.
Honestly that's where I'm at with you kind of. I think that's the only game we played together and I just read everything you say as townie right now lol
Do you think that Feign is scum? Or do you think that his role poses an imminent threat to town?
I mean I'm not sure he is scum but I have a hard time believing he can be town-aligned, so a solo? I have no idea honestly but it's hard to feel comfortable with him around when he is dropping all this vague info about killing people.
Okay, so you see all these posts about Feign saying "Why would scum or neutral do this? He must be town."
Yeah, that's why you fucking do it.
With those two posts he has both made sure he won't be voted out and that scum will most likely leave him alone.
I'm cool with voting Ty and if we're all really not feeling it then fine, but I REALLY think we're better off pulling this band-aid off now before people start blowing up.
Yeah, that's why you fucking do it.
With those two posts he has both made sure he won't be voted out and that scum will most likely leave him alone.
I'm cool with voting Ty and if we're all really not feeling it then fine, but I REALLY think we're better off pulling this band-aid off now before people start blowing up.
So town falls into the "too scummy to be scum" trap constantly so you certainly have a point, but i do wonder if Feigns inexperience in our meta should be factored in.
Its a meme here for good reason but iv never played enough mafia outside of mafiera to know if its a phenomenon specific to us or a more universal thing.
I mean my guess would be "yeah it happens everywhere" but im curious if our more worldly players have a better perspective than me.
This is possible, but Maol is the only other one I know here that is operating on a different meta, and he seems to be side eyeing that shit hard too so I really don't think that's exclusive to us.
Like I get the whole "The claim just feels like town!" thing, but step outside of that and what has Feign actually done aside from throwing shade so he can find someone to explode that town doesn't freak out about? Like look two pages back and you have him just calling out ATP and then when everyone was all "What? No." dude just admits to skipping like 10 pages. Does that really sound like someone who's town? (I know your about to say you skim a lot, but like, for most players)
Incoming Mega Post (1280 words lmao), gotta love 27-player read lists lol.
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Would Not Vote Today:
Chugg
Monkey
Maol
Nin
Feign
Fate
Faddy
Ambulance
Zem
Neki
Hawthorn
So this is my top tier that I just don't want to vote for today (as of this moment of course).
Chugg is really active and doing his thing, throwing reads and theories out there, just kind of generally having an opinion on everything, which feels like a Town Chugg thing to me so far at least. And I just generally like playing with him, so not today, sue me lol.
Monkey and Maol are both good Town Leaders and I don't like tossing those kinds of players out on D1, I'm happy to be paranoid about them more later if they don't die. Even without that, Monkey has been giving lots of reads and doing her sorting thing, being generally inquisitive, and looking like her Town self. Maol has been really active and in to D1 in a way that I feel kind of strange about, but also, I'm not about to look a gift horse in the mouth because it's much better than the "pick a name out of a hat for all I care" D1 Maol, that's for sure lol.
Nin impressed me enough with his burst of activity, and I've played with him enough that I feel like I could tell the gears were really turning in his head even if I wasn't in total agreement with his takes. He seems like Town Nin to me.
Feign's left his impression on the game, and I'm not going to vote for him today, I want to see what comes of his stuff. I don't agree with the takes saying he could be a Neutral either, I still think he feels Town for now with his claim.
Fate feels super relaxed and just radiates Townieness in my eyes, it could just be his general attitude, but I still feel like he was way less in to game talk (especially early) when he was Scum than he is here, so that's part of what's coloring my read on him too.
Faddy hasn't done any strange gambits or proposed any blatantly anti-town "plans" for everyone to follow yet, so he must be Town. :P
Ambulance still feels innocent to me, I know there was some talk about him earlier from Monkey and such, but I still think he feels genuine here.
Zem and Neki are getting newbie passes, of the two I would say Neki feels more naturally Townie to me, but I don't have any side-eyes on Zem really yet either.
I liked Hawthorn's entrance after replacing in enough to not want her gone today.
Would Not Really Want To Vote Today:
ATP
Sparks
Stan
Aeleus
Ephi
SkyOdin
This tier is like, I wouldn't be enthusiastically voting here, and probably wouldn't start these trains, a lot are pretty Nullish reads, but I could maybe see my vote floating its way to one at EoD if it was a thing or if my reads evolve some more.
ATP has kind of felt ehhhhh at times, like it's hard for me to place him so far, but he hasn't done anything that really makes me want to vote for him either.
Sparks would just be a weak vote because people can justify it in their sleep, so it's boring and I'd prob only vote there to keep someone in my "would not" list from being voted out.
Stan hasn't pinged me much either way, playing within normal parameters for the most part, and I feel like I solve him better with vote analysis.
Aeleus seems fine for the most part, but still mostly a null read here. I will say they're probably the one I'm least likely to vote for from this tier though, I'd need to hear a good case to strongly consider it.
Ephi gives off innocent vibes at times, but I don't really have much experience with her, she's kind of a blind spot too. Maybe I just need to interact with her more to get a better feel, but mostly a Null so far.
SkyOdin hasn't been too active, but he usually gives me a quality > quantity kind of vibe. I still feel like I need to see more from him though, so idk, I'd be reluctant to vote here today.
The Low Post Brigade:
Zipped
LP
Kopite
HPSauce
Ynnek
Kalor
Leo
There's definitely going to be some overlap with this and the next one, but I wanted to throw the remaining people with like ~10 posts or less all into a spot together here so I could sort out who I would and wouldn't vote for from this group.
Zipped hasn't been very impressive yet, though I also feel like it's a bit of a lazy vote.
LP, meh, I could maybe see my vote landing there, but there's got to be a better target than a literal meme.
Kopite seemed to have some pretty safe thoughts and then some quick interactions with Jman that I didn't feel great about, so I could see my vote going there.
HPSauce has been kind of quiet, but did give a read list earlier today and seems to be actively trying to sort through the game, so that feels good.
Ynnek, his most recent post with game thoughts feels kind of off, he's going back and forth on a lot of stuff, seems like his reads are almost open for interpretation, which I do not really like.
Kalor I have a hard time getting a read on, and I'd rather use some vote analysis to get a better hold on him than his posts, which I frequently incorrectly scum read him for.
Leo seems like he's here to play and has already contributed a lot of thoughts in his few posts, so I'm cool with him for now.
Would Vote Today:
Kopite
Ynnek
Ty4on
Zeke
Jman
And this is what I'm left with, so by the Process of Elimination, these are the players I would be cool with voting for today.
Kopite and Ynnek are explained above.
Ty4on feels pretty coasty, and latching on to the "Sparks is the top wagon" thing, when it was 2 votes on him and like one or two other people for the "top wagons", felt weak. I always feel like giving hot takes on Sparks is just an easy go-to for Scum to fake some activity, and then I wasn't impressed with his argument with Chugg either, so he's someone I'd vote for today.
Zeke's feeling a little forced to me, I just don't know if I believe that he believes in his case against Maol, which naturally gives me bad vibes. It feels to me more like it's something he decided to latch on to and make it his thing since people were calling him out for the excessive *truffleshuffle*ing, and I feel like there's been at least a couple other side-eyes on Maol, so maybe trying to stoke those flames a bit too.
Jman just kind of found himself here while I was sorting. I haven't had anything that made me think he was Town, the thing with his Stan vote and then his attempt to bait Feign haven't struck me as particularly Townie moves. The one thing I could maybe say in his favor is that I feel like Scum Jman is a bit more calculated in his moves, but even then, that might have just been how him and Launch worked together so well in Mario Mafia, so idk, I'd vote for him as of now.
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Would Not Vote Today:
Chugg
Monkey
Maol
Nin
Feign
Fate
Faddy
Ambulance
Zem
Neki
Hawthorn
So this is my top tier that I just don't want to vote for today (as of this moment of course).
Chugg is really active and doing his thing, throwing reads and theories out there, just kind of generally having an opinion on everything, which feels like a Town Chugg thing to me so far at least. And I just generally like playing with him, so not today, sue me lol.
Monkey and Maol are both good Town Leaders and I don't like tossing those kinds of players out on D1, I'm happy to be paranoid about them more later if they don't die. Even without that, Monkey has been giving lots of reads and doing her sorting thing, being generally inquisitive, and looking like her Town self. Maol has been really active and in to D1 in a way that I feel kind of strange about, but also, I'm not about to look a gift horse in the mouth because it's much better than the "pick a name out of a hat for all I care" D1 Maol, that's for sure lol.
Nin impressed me enough with his burst of activity, and I've played with him enough that I feel like I could tell the gears were really turning in his head even if I wasn't in total agreement with his takes. He seems like Town Nin to me.
Feign's left his impression on the game, and I'm not going to vote for him today, I want to see what comes of his stuff. I don't agree with the takes saying he could be a Neutral either, I still think he feels Town for now with his claim.
Fate feels super relaxed and just radiates Townieness in my eyes, it could just be his general attitude, but I still feel like he was way less in to game talk (especially early) when he was Scum than he is here, so that's part of what's coloring my read on him too.
Faddy hasn't done any strange gambits or proposed any blatantly anti-town "plans" for everyone to follow yet, so he must be Town. :P
Ambulance still feels innocent to me, I know there was some talk about him earlier from Monkey and such, but I still think he feels genuine here.
Zem and Neki are getting newbie passes, of the two I would say Neki feels more naturally Townie to me, but I don't have any side-eyes on Zem really yet either.
I liked Hawthorn's entrance after replacing in enough to not want her gone today.
Would Not Really Want To Vote Today:
ATP
Sparks
Stan
Aeleus
Ephi
SkyOdin
This tier is like, I wouldn't be enthusiastically voting here, and probably wouldn't start these trains, a lot are pretty Nullish reads, but I could maybe see my vote floating its way to one at EoD if it was a thing or if my reads evolve some more.
ATP has kind of felt ehhhhh at times, like it's hard for me to place him so far, but he hasn't done anything that really makes me want to vote for him either.
Sparks would just be a weak vote because people can justify it in their sleep, so it's boring and I'd prob only vote there to keep someone in my "would not" list from being voted out.
Stan hasn't pinged me much either way, playing within normal parameters for the most part, and I feel like I solve him better with vote analysis.
Aeleus seems fine for the most part, but still mostly a null read here. I will say they're probably the one I'm least likely to vote for from this tier though, I'd need to hear a good case to strongly consider it.
Ephi gives off innocent vibes at times, but I don't really have much experience with her, she's kind of a blind spot too. Maybe I just need to interact with her more to get a better feel, but mostly a Null so far.
SkyOdin hasn't been too active, but he usually gives me a quality > quantity kind of vibe. I still feel like I need to see more from him though, so idk, I'd be reluctant to vote here today.
The Low Post Brigade:
Zipped
LP
Kopite
HPSauce
Ynnek
Kalor
Leo
There's definitely going to be some overlap with this and the next one, but I wanted to throw the remaining people with like ~10 posts or less all into a spot together here so I could sort out who I would and wouldn't vote for from this group.
Zipped hasn't been very impressive yet, though I also feel like it's a bit of a lazy vote.
LP, meh, I could maybe see my vote landing there, but there's got to be a better target than a literal meme.
Kopite seemed to have some pretty safe thoughts and then some quick interactions with Jman that I didn't feel great about, so I could see my vote going there.
HPSauce has been kind of quiet, but did give a read list earlier today and seems to be actively trying to sort through the game, so that feels good.
Ynnek, his most recent post with game thoughts feels kind of off, he's going back and forth on a lot of stuff, seems like his reads are almost open for interpretation, which I do not really like.
Kalor I have a hard time getting a read on, and I'd rather use some vote analysis to get a better hold on him than his posts, which I frequently incorrectly scum read him for.
Leo seems like he's here to play and has already contributed a lot of thoughts in his few posts, so I'm cool with him for now.
Would Vote Today:
Kopite
Ynnek
Ty4on
Zeke
Jman
And this is what I'm left with, so by the Process of Elimination, these are the players I would be cool with voting for today.
Kopite and Ynnek are explained above.
Ty4on feels pretty coasty, and latching on to the "Sparks is the top wagon" thing, when it was 2 votes on him and like one or two other people for the "top wagons", felt weak. I always feel like giving hot takes on Sparks is just an easy go-to for Scum to fake some activity, and then I wasn't impressed with his argument with Chugg either, so he's someone I'd vote for today.
Zeke's feeling a little forced to me, I just don't know if I believe that he believes in his case against Maol, which naturally gives me bad vibes. It feels to me more like it's something he decided to latch on to and make it his thing since people were calling him out for the excessive *truffleshuffle*ing, and I feel like there's been at least a couple other side-eyes on Maol, so maybe trying to stoke those flames a bit too.
Jman just kind of found himself here while I was sorting. I haven't had anything that made me think he was Town, the thing with his Stan vote and then his attempt to bait Feign haven't struck me as particularly Townie moves. The one thing I could maybe say in his favor is that I feel like Scum Jman is a bit more calculated in his moves, but even then, that might have just been how him and Launch worked together so well in Mario Mafia, so idk, I'd vote for him as of now.
I mean, the Fate game itself pretty much shows the answer to "do you think you could tell?" is "lol, no" but... maybe?
I overlooked Shirou during Fate when he was scum, and followed that up by tunneling on him during Eastenders when he was innocent. I'd like to think my Shirou-sensors are at least a little callibrated now, but he does actually take on board criticism to try and modify his game so he's tricky.
Obviously he's fooled me before but at the moment I'm not worried.
HP has barely posted.
He's fairly low key anyway but if he weren't my friend I don't know if I'd even have clocked his presence this game at all. He feels quiet even for him and I find that mildly concerning.
Not concerning enough to vote there because I do think I'll get a better feel for him once he picks up, but concerning enough to keep one eye on him until that happens.
Neki... everything he's done today is screaming town at me. It feels incredibly genuine, and yeah I joked that he feels less innocent now he started shitposting but that was banter, and knowing him it actualy makes me feel better. He doesn't feel guarded. I have no idea how he'd actually play either way, obviously, but I feel like scum Neki would be different.
And if I'm wrong he can point at this and laugh at me after the game.
TheChuggernaut, talk to me about my reads, tell me why they are bad, or good, or whatever.
I will give you 20 minutes to read that post first, of course.
I will give you 20 minutes to read that post first, of course.
That's certainly a fair point. It would be easier to figure Feign out if he was otherwise more active in other discussions.
Thanks for answering in a detailed manner. It was useful. BTW, I've noticed that you haven't been spamming gifs throughout the thread yet. Do you save that enthusiasm for Fate stuff?
Oh good I missed our middle of the night read talks.
I really REALLY don't care for Feign, and I'm curious to why you're giving him a pass for the day.
I agree on Neki and Zem. Neki feels town as fuck, and while Zem isn't quite there, he's not pinging any alarm bells so I'm alright with him.
I get the hesitant reads on Sky, but he is my god damn soul read right now. Think all of his posts have been quality and he's someone a person would have to make a pretty damn good case for in order for me to change my mind there.
Kopite and Kenny are still just giant nulls for me.
I actually agree pretty stongly with your bottom three here. Zeke is just kind of around and that's concerning. I legit forgot Jman was in this game until I read your post which is also a bad sign, but he'll probably do something obviously townie in a couple of hours or he won't and he'll die later. You probably know my feelings on Ty at this point.
Hope you don't mind me answering this.
In this part here:
Why do you not want to vote for them? Aside from that whole thing with Monkey I'm not really seeing much of note. Also not really a fan of that vote for Sparks.
hey i dont skim that often.
Also im not at all on the "The claim just feels town" things at all, the claim feels completely off to me and im honestly pretty on board for a Feign kill today.
The any contrary thought im having is that i could see this being some attempt at one of those galaxy brain strats that completely backfires because of how much it clutters the game and derails more natural play.
might as well put it out there that i guess im also okay with a ty kill but ill say out front that most of that talk kinda floated me by so im not really gonna push for it.
Also down for killing Monkey or Nin.
Also down for killing Monkey or Nin.
I'll throw a vote here for now because I should put my money where my mouth is.
Vote: Feign
Would not be down for killing Monkey and nin at this point personally. Can easily go back to Ty, but maybe he'll have some more to say when he gets back.
Vote: Feign
Would not be down for killing Monkey and nin at this point personally. Can easily go back to Ty, but maybe he'll have some more to say when he gets back.
I think it's partly a tone thing, I liked the jokey chill vibe early on from them, and then honestly the Monkey thing wasn't that bad in my eyes, Aeleus is known to poke at players like Monkey or me early because they hold a deep grudge about high-volume posters getting early passes just for activity lol. The Sparks vote is what I don't like, but compared to the other players on that tier, I felt like I'd need to hear a good reason to float my vote that way at EoD still.
Feign seems like a strong player, and it's kind of like how I am with Monkey where I just don't like tossing those kinds of players out on D1, though I get with him it's a bit different with the role claim stuff, but idk, give them room to breathe for now is my take, if they're Town then Scum are the ones who are worried.
Yeah, Sky is like Aeleus for me in that tier, where I feel good about the majority of their stuff, not likely to vote there from that group, but just in a lesser category for me as of now.
And yeah, I'm gunna go ahead and vote Zeke to get that going I think, see what that brings us.
Vote: EzekelRAGE
im trying this new things where im avoiding playing by the usual formalised methodology and focus more on where my more immediate and intuitive impression lead me.
last game (not counting Among Us lol) i peg a few people early on just on feel but kind of let them go since i didnt have much of a conventional argument, only to find that i was pretty spot on with a lot of it and if i had pushed harder we might not have completly died, so i wanna see if this will work out for me
Basically this means im being a lazy ass and cleverly justifying it to myself, yall should try it its quite liberating.
last game (not counting Among Us lol) i peg a few people early on just on feel but kind of let them go since i didnt have much of a conventional argument, only to find that i was pretty spot on with a lot of it and if i had pushed harder we might not have completly died, so i wanna see if this will work out for me
Basically this means im being a lazy ass and cleverly justifying it to myself, yall should try it its quite liberating.
Not gonna lie, following my gut is how I get like 90% of scum flips