You're not the boss of me
Sure but then slow it down then okay ?
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Metal Gear Solid Mafia Redux |OT| I'll Die After I Kill You
- Thread starter Natiko
- Start date
You're not the boss of me
Sure but then slow it down then okay ?
That it is is a given in role madness is exactly what makes it weird.
Not wanting it to go to waste = implied usefulness
Saying it = makes you possibly more of a target than you would have been
So subbing out because you don't want it to go to waste... ups the odds that it could go to waste because scum kills you.
That didn't happen, but it doesn't make the action less weird.
I felt his d2 was very strong, lots of engagements, just felt natural, and he's not going with the flow automatically but not vehemently arguing either. Doesn't feel like he's very self conscious.
I tried to take some time last night to go over players I found quiet and thought might be Pats, since that's easier to narrow down. I started with the lowest post counts, so I only had time to look into Kopite and Ephi. I was left with a town feeling towards Ephi, for what it's worth, but with increased suspicion of Kopite. I'm not saying I would want him to go over Ynnek today, but I think it's worth looking into. Here are my notes on Kopite:
-Voted Sparks D1, Chugg D2.
D1:
-First substantive post: town Feign & Aeleus, hedge on Stan and Launch
-Able to back up those reads when questioned by nin
-Thought Jman was being unusually quiet
-More talk of Feign, basically useless for reads now. Then hedges on Jman.
-Votes Sparks, while simultaneously heding by saying he seems more town than not. Said he didn't feel the Ty votes at all, and defended Ty in his last post of D1. Never switched to Zeke or Maol, the other wagons against Ty.
D2:
-Beginning with Aeleus speculation that's also useless for reads.
-Responded to Monkey's post on Chuggs by agreeing with it without adding anything, then saying it looked like Chuggs hadn't responded, when in fact he had responded. Also said that Sparks seems more engaged on D2.
-Defended the Sparks vote by saying essentially that it was a policy vote-out, then repeated that Sparks seems more engaged today so he wouldn't repeat the vote. But Kopite also said D1 that Sparks seemed engaged right before voting him.
-In the end went along with the Chugg vote. 2384. Monkey, ATP, Sparks, and Stan were already voting there, so Kopite took it from 3 to 4. Could be an early bus if they thought it was a foregone conclusion, or someone on the Non-Pat-Mafia-Team, or could just genuinely be convinced.
Today:
Reads list, then follow up post expanding on the reads list. Now highly town-reading Sparks. Explains both of the town reads he was asked to explain (HP and ATP) entirely based on separation from Chuggs, despite the high probability of a second scum team.
Scum reads are not great either. I don't like the read on me-- a bunch of people have suspected me based on my play, which is fine, but scum reading me based on mischaracterizing what Launch said when he replaced out is shady. The Faddy read is interesting but a bit hedge-y. The Zeke and Kenny reads seem to be mostly repeating what other people have said.
My conclusion:
Kopite is coasting a lot. He seems content to go with town consensus and is not really pushing his reads. He town reads Sparks D2, but voted for him D1 and has said similar things about his play on both days. If he is mafia, he's doing a great job staying in the background while controversies play out around other players.
-Voted Sparks D1, Chugg D2.
D1:
-First substantive post: town Feign & Aeleus, hedge on Stan and Launch
-Able to back up those reads when questioned by nin
-Thought Jman was being unusually quiet
-More talk of Feign, basically useless for reads now. Then hedges on Jman.
-Votes Sparks, while simultaneously heding by saying he seems more town than not. Said he didn't feel the Ty votes at all, and defended Ty in his last post of D1. Never switched to Zeke or Maol, the other wagons against Ty.
D2:
-Beginning with Aeleus speculation that's also useless for reads.
-Responded to Monkey's post on Chuggs by agreeing with it without adding anything, then saying it looked like Chuggs hadn't responded, when in fact he had responded. Also said that Sparks seems more engaged on D2.
-Defended the Sparks vote by saying essentially that it was a policy vote-out, then repeated that Sparks seems more engaged today so he wouldn't repeat the vote. But Kopite also said D1 that Sparks seemed engaged right before voting him.
-In the end went along with the Chugg vote. 2384. Monkey, ATP, Sparks, and Stan were already voting there, so Kopite took it from 3 to 4. Could be an early bus if they thought it was a foregone conclusion, or someone on the Non-Pat-Mafia-Team, or could just genuinely be convinced.
Today:
Reads list, then follow up post expanding on the reads list. Now highly town-reading Sparks. Explains both of the town reads he was asked to explain (HP and ATP) entirely based on separation from Chuggs, despite the high probability of a second scum team.
Scum reads are not great either. I don't like the read on me-- a bunch of people have suspected me based on my play, which is fine, but scum reading me based on mischaracterizing what Launch said when he replaced out is shady. The Faddy read is interesting but a bit hedge-y. The Zeke and Kenny reads seem to be mostly repeating what other people have said.
My conclusion:
Kopite is coasting a lot. He seems content to go with town consensus and is not really pushing his reads. He town reads Sparks D2, but voted for him D1 and has said similar things about his play on both days. If he is mafia, he's doing a great job staying in the background while controversies play out around other players.
The thing is, scum is looking for breadcrumbs. They want to find PRs. That's why it's really frustrating when people out themselves as useful roles (see also: defuser) when they don't have to. Launch knows this.
It's a very small thing by itself, but it's still notable.
It's a very small thing by itself, but it's still notable.
Yeah, I'd still like to role claim before I get voted out. Thought about doing it last night, but figured I'd still have some time.
Because I'm town is the main reason. But also because I'm not really sure I'm a good info kill today, either.
Nin had something weird going on with his quotes the other day, but I figured that was just an accident. This feels like something else, though.
That is also my take, even though I see you currently as a potential scum, you could still help town to find the other scum team. Really appreciated
I was going to ask why are you worried about Turbo but then I looked at the vote count.
I'm still not absolutely clear why we are voting Kenny especailly in light of chuggs flip.
Who would your other options be ?
Mine are currently hawthorn and Kopite
It's awkward for me to respond to this post, but speaking purely based on reading Launch's comment, I really don't see that interpretation. He didn't say "I have a role that's really helpful for town" or "I have a great role" or anything like that. All town in this game have town roles. He could easily mean that he was town and he didn't want to get voted out and hurt the town. Which might be ironic if I end up voted out XD
I don't like this reaction at all. It's obvious that it was a tech issue. How would repeating random quotes even remotely be a scum strategy?
Thanks! Be interested to see more thoughts on Kopite.
Sparks went further up in my town list because of his increased activity/posts in D2 and today. D1 Sparks was still a lunch I was comfy with making, but he's gotten more townie since and others have emerged as worthier of being scumread.
Launch's post is still weird for me, it has too much of a "How do you do fellow town" vibe to it
Launch's post is still weird for me, it has too much of a "How do you do fellow town" vibe to it
And here are my notes on Ephi:
vote records: D1 Jman for a bit then switched to Ty. D2 Chugg.
D1:
-Began with thoughts on Feign. Asked nin to prod her.
-Anti voting Feign early on. Didn't buy the weird suspicion of Launch.
-A bit of early shitposting, less than in previous town games.
-Feeling about Zem being mafia. Would vote Sparks, would protect Maol. Did notice difference in his play.
-Bunch of more just reaction/chatting posts
-Town read on Neki, wait and see on HP, hedge on Shirou. All her friends from the Fate discord.
-Jman vote was based on a feeling/better start somewhere, unvoted based on the claim
-Responding to Aeleus's push for Sparks. Saying she doesn't want to policy vote & doesn't have a good read.
-Was the one to point out Chugg's early claim that he was bomb associated.
-Deciding between the trains at EoD, voted for Ty while having nothing much at all to say about him, just didn't like the other ones.
D2:
-Long opening post that is mostly speculation about Ael and about why Ty didn't claim
-Now town reading Shirou a bit. Also turned around on Zem.
-Thinks the Zeke gif thing is stupid.
-Castigating Jman again.
-Saying she's persuaded on Chuggs just because of Monkey's force of personality, essentially.
-Reads list. Zem is now among one of the few people she lists as "town ish." She does explain the turn around. A bit suspicious of ATP, Vere, Ynnek
-Responding pretty well to people.
-Bit of a hedge on LP
-Said she would vote for Chugg or Ynnek
I didn't copy posts here, so I'll tag Ephidel
I came out with a conclusion that Ephi was a bit lost D1, and also went along with the flow on the Chuggs vote, but is doing her own thinking and observing outside of the town consensus, and explains her thoughts well. So I have a bit more of a town feeling towards her.
vote records: D1 Jman for a bit then switched to Ty. D2 Chugg.
D1:
-Began with thoughts on Feign. Asked nin to prod her.
-Anti voting Feign early on. Didn't buy the weird suspicion of Launch.
-A bit of early shitposting, less than in previous town games.
-Feeling about Zem being mafia. Would vote Sparks, would protect Maol. Did notice difference in his play.
-Bunch of more just reaction/chatting posts
-Town read on Neki, wait and see on HP, hedge on Shirou. All her friends from the Fate discord.
-Jman vote was based on a feeling/better start somewhere, unvoted based on the claim
-Responding to Aeleus's push for Sparks. Saying she doesn't want to policy vote & doesn't have a good read.
-Was the one to point out Chugg's early claim that he was bomb associated.
-Deciding between the trains at EoD, voted for Ty while having nothing much at all to say about him, just didn't like the other ones.
D2:
-Long opening post that is mostly speculation about Ael and about why Ty didn't claim
-Now town reading Shirou a bit. Also turned around on Zem.
-Thinks the Zeke gif thing is stupid.
-Castigating Jman again.
-Saying she's persuaded on Chuggs just because of Monkey's force of personality, essentially.
-Reads list. Zem is now among one of the few people she lists as "town ish." She does explain the turn around. A bit suspicious of ATP, Vere, Ynnek
-Responding pretty well to people.
-Bit of a hedge on LP
-Said she would vote for Chugg or Ynnek
I didn't copy posts here, so I'll tag Ephidel
I came out with a conclusion that Ephi was a bit lost D1, and also went along with the flow on the Chuggs vote, but is doing her own thinking and observing outside of the town consensus, and explains her thoughts well. So I have a bit more of a town feeling towards her.
You're 4 votes from going. You waiting for your team to make a believable claim
sure his activity has risen but other than saying random things, reacting to stuff with one liners and pinging people there is NOTHING worth keeping him over a longer period of time
Zeke or Verelios are my main scum reads at the moment.
I think Zeke is just out here being scummy af and no one is voting for him. He got a few votes from people on day 1 and 2 by the same people.
Going to have to say we have different ideas on strong play, but I haven't read him closely and am only going with my gut. Has anything specifically struck you as town telling?
Kopite has engaged today and made a few posts I thought were good, so has actually moved up a bit for me. Still would not discount him from being scum but would be down the list for getting my vote.
What I found odd there is that you also found Sparks more town than usual D1:
Can you point to the main differences you saw between his play on the two days? Also, why didn't you switch to one of the other trains, since you didn't agree with the Ty vote?
Summary post. I also find it interesting how self-focused this is. It's a lot of words for what isn't even OMGUS - you're like getting out in front of an OMGUS that doesn't even exist.
I don't think Kopite has town told, certainly, but considering the pool of players under consideration, I don't think I'd put him above any of them, so I this screams of "not me, look over there!" to me, I gotta say. With two mafia teams, it's hard to say what that means for anyone's alignment but considering the position that you're in, it raises red flags for me.
I also find it curious that your next target is Ephi, who was largely absent yesterday due to IRL issues. Are you going to do the same to nin? Feels like low hanging fruit.
Why not Kalor, Vere, or Zeke, out of curiousity? You said quiet players: what naturally brings you to these two quiet players? Why not LP? Zipped? Neki? Tell me why these two. Zipped hasn't even voted. Why isn't he a quiet player who could be a Pat?
You're 4 votes from going. You waiting for your team to make a believable claim
I should be able to check the thread throughout the rest of this day (irl day). I feel like I'd have time to claim after another vote or two. If 4 votes come in all before I can respond, those 4 are going to seem pretty suspicious after I flip, I feel.
Sure but this is why he's a good lunch candidate D1 when it's not far from being a crapshoot anyway but beyond that, he's an easy mislunch to push when there are scummier candidates around.
Town are going to get voted out. Every game. It happens.
Here, though, I do agree with you.
zingYou're 4 votes from going. You waiting for your team to make a believable claim
It's moot now that nin is saying it's just a phone issue, but it could have been anything from a weird breadcrumb to some sort of posting curse someone put on him. That's certainly a leap, but games have had them before.
It's gonna be real difficult to glean any other info on other players today when you keep posting amazingly scummy looking shit like this.
See, this is why I'm not seeing a case for Kopite either. Idk, maybe it's just because there is a big pool of juicy targets right there, people who have clearly been playing in ways that raise red flags, while I see Kopite and just say "yeah, that's Kopite." I wish we had the player data sheet around so we could see how many times Kopite has been voted out just because. It feels lazy.
Let's ruminate: I don't think he's teamed with Chuggs and em. So potentially the other team. But we already have a pool of people for the other team. What's the real case on Kopite? He's wishy washy and low posting? Okay. Is there a time he's not? Is it AI for Kopite? There are like four other people also there so: why Kopite?
Sparks isn't gonna be the key to solving the game but I'm not voting for someone who's more likely town when the PoE is like six strong candidates for mafia and there's a whole team we haven't found yet with ??? powers.
Listen, we're in a great position. Neutral down n1, no kill n2, a mafia out d1 - this is GOLDEN. Why would we ever vote Sparks right now? lord have mercy
Let's not fuck it up by throwing our spaghetti in the air.
r i g h t
I'm about to start arguing with people, man, I can feel it brewing, so I'm gonna go eat some lunch and rage-gnaw a breadcrust during this faculty meeting but then I GET MY VACCINE so I expect to be in a great mood this afternoon and I also hope to have superhuman powers.
I don't think that's the case. I mentioned one read against me in the context of going through all Kopite's play. He's barely mentioned me.
I think that mafia can coast easily while town drills down on players who are more in the spotlight. I think it's a huge mistake to not look outside of those who are in the spotlight. Speaking here from a perspective of finding mafia, not of self-preservation.
Here's how I decided who to look into:
I went down the list of players and came up with this list of potential Pats: Zeke, Stan, SkyOdin, Kopite, Ephi, Zem, LP
-Neki is not on the list because I have a town read on him, just based on his posts feeling genuine.
-Kalor is not on the list because the way he was brought up as a contrary train to Chuggs makes me thing they're not teamed.
-Zipped is off because I honestly don't think mafia would forget to vote two days in a row.
-nin also feels town. He feels like he pushes a lot more and is sharper as town.
-The way Ambulance replaced out actually made me feel more town than not towards him. I know other people feel the opposite, but that's my read of it. It reminds me of how he replaced out of EZA.
I then further narrowed down the list by deciding not to do ISOs of players I know I have a tough time reading. That's Stan, SkyOdin and LP. I was left with a list of Zeke, Kopite, Ephi, and Zem. I didn't really want to start with Zeke, as that has the related problems of being accused of being in a tunnel and actually being in too much of a tunnel. To motivate myself to actually complete my ISOs, I sorted the four players in order of post count and went through them in reverse order, starting with Zeke then Ephi. After work today I plan to look into Zeke and Zem.
Here is a list of posts of Zeke defending himself against Scum reads. The first one contained a definition of OMGUS
He makes literally zero case for being town. All it is saying we can't prove he is scum.
Bascially we are unable to read his alignment either way. I guess we have to flip him.
He makes literally zero case for being town. All it is saying we can't prove he is scum.
Bascially we are unable to read his alignment either way. I guess we have to flip him.
but i love spaghetti :(
yeah i get your point. At this stage i am just zoning him out and trying to keep focused.
may i ask who your potential next ejection candidates are ?
i already posted mine but will again since i am such a nice player.
after kenny its hawthorn / Verelios / kalor and or Kopite.
Yeah, and town are always going to worry about being voted out, even if they shouldn't.
This is fair enough-- I'm not pushing for him to go out today for that reason. I wouldn't switch my vote from Ynnek to him. But reading through his posts left me with the impression of someone doing an amazing job leaving not much of any mark on the thread, so that he's always the third or fourth player to look at, he's never in the spotlight. I think it's worth keeping in mind.
Also, congrats on the vaccine!
Bzzt. No, don't come over here and tell me about not looking at players who aren't in the spotlight, please. I'm not having it, not after I was prepared to fight every damn body yesterday to drag Chuggs to the block.
I DO think it feels deflective of you to choose those two specifically. Typing 500 words to try to justify it doesn't automatically convince me, either; I'm not the one.
Your list is based on easy assumptions and not digging. The ones you chose to dig into are easy targets. You made that choice, you're gonna get questioned.
I did find Sparks more town than usual because the last couple of games I played with him he suggested randomly lunching someone D1 would be the best way to approach the day. There's no way to go but up from there lol and he has IMO been better since D1. He went from mostly shitposting to actually poking and prodding, he's one of the first to push on Chuggs and then Faddy. I didn't switch because I wasn't feeling the Mao train either. Zeke's wagon came in a little later, I also didn't feel any way about him then and it was already certain that Ty was done for.
I don't want to set up if-thens here too hard re: flips because that way lies madness, so it requires some assessment of how people moved around the Kenny vote post-flip, but after yesterday and first part of today, the pool I'm most interested in is (kind of in reverse order):
Zipped
Vere
Zeke
Hawthorn
HP
Kalor - in fact, still my number one consideration for "but let's figure this person out" and I'm surprised there's been little discussion
There are a lot of people I want to hear more from (Kopite, Ephi, Neki, you, Stan), but this is the more active sus pool.
Not sure what you mean by bringing in the comparison of your fight to get Chuggs voted off. He was a high profile poster; makes it all the more likely that possible teammates would be more in the shadows. If you just mean that you did a better job than me, then I won't argue, congrats, but I don't think that means it's not worth looking at Kopite.
There are a lot of players in the game. No one can look at every player. I don't think arguments based on digging into an easy target are reasonable, it should be more about the quality of the reads.
Thanks for responding-- I do think this is a reasonable response that makes me feel a little better about you, but I still have the same overall impression that you are somewhat coasting.
Right, firstly I wanted to look at competing trains from yesterday to see what was actually there.
Unlike D1, D2 had resistance, and Chuggs was ultimately scum.
I was scum reading Ynnek, but off the back of that I wasn't sure I wanted to launch myself straight back at him today without trying to confirm whether I was just going along with other people's feelings.
The competition implies the attempt to save Chuggs was there, but the multiple scum team call out could mean the scum teams are sitting here hunting each other.
Chuggs train started Monkey (1712) -> Jman (1744) -> ATP (1788)
Kalor train started Mao (1803) -> Shirou (2027) -> Ynnek (2226)
Ynnek train started Fanto (2022) -> Leo (2223)-> Odin (2273)
(Kalor voted Ynnek in 2344, so after Ynnek voted for them.)
Either way, I wanted to take another look at Ynnek, and then take any look at Kalor because I hadn't looked at him at all yesterday while this was actually going on.
So, Ynnek first (this only goes to EoD atm because that's where my quote collecting ended, I'll do today separately afterwards just so I don't get completely lost)
____________
Ynnek
Opens the game with flavour talk about the games. Not going to shoot anyone for that, been there, done that.
He starts by answering Monkey's icebreaker question with a lean on Zeke being town, then immediately hedges his bets on it.
Starts with discussing Feign and his claim, says he townread him based on it but now Feign has said more, isn't sure. Says the play feels wrong if he's neutral so he doesn't know what to make of it.
Logically if you think the claim is weird and you don't think it feels neutral, wouldn't you at least entertain the idea of scum?
Mentions the argument between Ty4on/Chuggs. That was the back and forth over ty's insistence on town reading sparks repeatedly and Chuggs not liking it.
Have to agree with him that it was a pretty weird exchange overall, and it was part of what contributed to my feelings about ty on d1. Even knowing that was wrong with the benefit of hindsight, can't really read much into that.
His wouldn't vote for list: Nin, Sparks, Monkey, Stan, Jman
Dismisses ty's choice to analyse Feign's reads, which I kinda agree with.
Walks back his "wouldn't vote for" for Sparks when actually queried on it by Ael or at the very least waters it down.
Comments on Jman's claim, then some bomber speculation.
I was down on Jman this game but I backed off because I didn't want to get rid of a protective role, while his response to the claim is to consider him "a problem to solve"
That just feels like a scummy mindset to approach that from :\
Mechanics speculation on Ael's role.
Speculation on the bomber. Neutrality and target motives. He suspects they'd want to put it on someone not likely to be voted out or night killed. HP has had a little heat now but he hadn't then so he would be a good pick for someone targetting with that reasoning, but this is an early point to be speculating that the bombs need to stick around.
Comments on Monkey's Scum Chuggs takedown. Suggests Monkey had an answer and fitted the conclusion to it "or she can just super read Chuggs, lol"
Considering there's no actual way she could have had a guarantee for that answer it just feels like a light attempt to shade the case.
The big weird group splitting exercise.
The big weird group splitting exercise where I am going to note that he has Chuggs listed as kill and Kalor listed as nothing, when he actually went on to vote the other way around.
Followed by calling Chuggs the priority on his kill list. A priority he didn't follow through on.
Comment on the big split read list, clarifying the people with no comments as null in their splittings.
Literally says he's starting a Kalor train just to try and get something non-Chuggs going, despite Chuggs being his top priority kill target.
(While saying he's not going for the Zeke train because he's "not sure" he has a scum read there)
Again, literally says he just wanted to get something else going because he doesn't think we'd get anything out of voting Chuggs alone. And doesn't want to go for Zeke because he'd rather investigate him.
Is questioned on how he feels about Shirou/Maol joining him on his vote. Feels they're both "pressure" votes, and feels fine about them.
Comments on Fanto's look at him, but doesn't actually comment on it really until Shirou prods him.
Sky asks if he feels the Chuggs vote is "inevitable" despite it being pretty even at that point. He does, but thinks it could swing.
Bomb speculation.
Finally goes to Chuggs.
At the point he switched it was Chuggs (8), Ynnek (8) Kalor (4).
Say's he'll claim if it's still close. It makes sense as a self preservation vote and he says he'll claim if he's still in contention later.
He switched in #2450 @3:21pm.
Chuggs went on his scum monologue in #2467 @4:50pm.
____________
My main takeaway is no, I still think he looks scummy af.
He spends a lot of time speculating on mechanics and bomb shit but the main thing that bothers me is that his his voting is completely inconsistent with his reads.
Unlike D1, D2 had resistance, and Chuggs was ultimately scum.
I was scum reading Ynnek, but off the back of that I wasn't sure I wanted to launch myself straight back at him today without trying to confirm whether I was just going along with other people's feelings.
The competition implies the attempt to save Chuggs was there, but the multiple scum team call out could mean the scum teams are sitting here hunting each other.
Chuggs train started Monkey (1712) -> Jman (1744) -> ATP (1788)
Kalor train started Mao (1803) -> Shirou (2027) -> Ynnek (2226)
Ynnek train started Fanto (2022) -> Leo (2223)-> Odin (2273)
(Kalor voted Ynnek in 2344, so after Ynnek voted for them.)
Either way, I wanted to take another look at Ynnek, and then take any look at Kalor because I hadn't looked at him at all yesterday while this was actually going on.
So, Ynnek first (this only goes to EoD atm because that's where my quote collecting ended, I'll do today separately afterwards just so I don't get completely lost)
____________
Ynnek
Opens the game with flavour talk about the games. Not going to shoot anyone for that, been there, done that.
He starts by answering Monkey's icebreaker question with a lean on Zeke being town, then immediately hedges his bets on it.
Starts with discussing Feign and his claim, says he townread him based on it but now Feign has said more, isn't sure. Says the play feels wrong if he's neutral so he doesn't know what to make of it.
Logically if you think the claim is weird and you don't think it feels neutral, wouldn't you at least entertain the idea of scum?
Mentions the argument between Ty4on/Chuggs. That was the back and forth over ty's insistence on town reading sparks repeatedly and Chuggs not liking it.
Have to agree with him that it was a pretty weird exchange overall, and it was part of what contributed to my feelings about ty on d1. Even knowing that was wrong with the benefit of hindsight, can't really read much into that.
His wouldn't vote for list: Nin, Sparks, Monkey, Stan, Jman
Dismisses ty's choice to analyse Feign's reads, which I kinda agree with.
Walks back his "wouldn't vote for" for Sparks when actually queried on it by Ael or at the very least waters it down.
Comments on Jman's claim, then some bomber speculation.
I was down on Jman this game but I backed off because I didn't want to get rid of a protective role, while his response to the claim is to consider him "a problem to solve"
That just feels like a scummy mindset to approach that from :\
Mechanics speculation on Ael's role.
Speculation on the bomber. Neutrality and target motives. He suspects they'd want to put it on someone not likely to be voted out or night killed. HP has had a little heat now but he hadn't then so he would be a good pick for someone targetting with that reasoning, but this is an early point to be speculating that the bombs need to stick around.
Comments on Monkey's Scum Chuggs takedown. Suggests Monkey had an answer and fitted the conclusion to it "or she can just super read Chuggs, lol"
Considering there's no actual way she could have had a guarantee for that answer it just feels like a light attempt to shade the case.
The big weird group splitting exercise.
The big weird group splitting exercise where I am going to note that he has Chuggs listed as kill and Kalor listed as nothing, when he actually went on to vote the other way around.
Followed by calling Chuggs the priority on his kill list. A priority he didn't follow through on.
Comment on the big split read list, clarifying the people with no comments as null in their splittings.
Literally says he's starting a Kalor train just to try and get something non-Chuggs going, despite Chuggs being his top priority kill target.
(While saying he's not going for the Zeke train because he's "not sure" he has a scum read there)
Again, literally says he just wanted to get something else going because he doesn't think we'd get anything out of voting Chuggs alone. And doesn't want to go for Zeke because he'd rather investigate him.
Is questioned on how he feels about Shirou/Maol joining him on his vote. Feels they're both "pressure" votes, and feels fine about them.
Comments on Fanto's look at him, but doesn't actually comment on it really until Shirou prods him.
Sky asks if he feels the Chuggs vote is "inevitable" despite it being pretty even at that point. He does, but thinks it could swing.
Bomb speculation.
Finally goes to Chuggs.
At the point he switched it was Chuggs (8), Ynnek (8) Kalor (4).
Say's he'll claim if it's still close. It makes sense as a self preservation vote and he says he'll claim if he's still in contention later.
He switched in #2450 @3:21pm.
Chuggs went on his scum monologue in #2467 @4:50pm.
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My main takeaway is no, I still think he looks scummy af.
He spends a lot of time speculating on mechanics and bomb shit but the main thing that bothers me is that his his voting is completely inconsistent with his reads.
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Kalor
Townreads Feign and Shirou.
Thinks Ambulance's posts "read weirdly"
Has a back and forth with Maol about meta, implies he's using it to talk about posters without engaging with the content of their posts.
Thinks Feign's claim makes them town or neutral.
Skeptical of people who were more vocal against Feign after his second claim because it would be a threat to scum.
Disliked Jman fishing for more info on the role.
Off the back of the Feign flip, thinks Chugg's bomb speculation was "oddly specific and it's doubly so now"
Notes that LP previously asserted the same.
We now know Chuggs is teamed with the bomber, we didn't then.
Votes for Maol because he thought he was sticking out.
I don't think he answered.
Ambulance doesn't answer.
Previously he thought Ambulance felt weird, but he's listing him as town.
Shirou asks about the list, the town section specifically.
Kalor's answer is noncommital.
Votes Chuggs because he previously thought he was mafia and is "just generally not a fan of their play so far"
In depth speculation on the reasoning for the bomber's target.
Makes an assertion that the bomber is probably neutral (we now know the bomber is scum).
Odin asks about the vote for Chuggs and the reasoning, answer seems noncommital.
Dismisses HP's assumption he was targetted on purpose by me/shirou/people who knew he'd panic, says he didn't think it would have been considered.
Comments on Chuggs and the very specific bomb posts again.
Chucks some shade at Maol, his previous target, about his read list seeming random. Thinks he's rolebaiting, but falsely?
Brief discussion with Hawthorn about Maol's reads / strategy.
Looks like he disapproves of the play more than the reads?
Sort of a nothing exchange with Sparks/Vere about why Chuggs isn't dead yet.
#2193
Suggestion that even if Monkey is right, scum don't need to kill her because town will turn on her if she lives.
The turning point.
After previously admitting surprise about how few votes are down they now decide they don't think Chuggs is mafia.
They think the watcher claim looks fine, and turn on Ynnek instead thinking they're "deliberately trying not to stand out" which... kinda applies to him too.
Back and forth with ATP over the timing of his votes on both Chuggs and Ynnek.
ATP finds them suspicious, thinking they were hopping from a train they thought was inevitable to a different one.
I hate vote analysis.
Before he switched the vote was
Zeke (3), Chuggs (4), Ynnek (3), Kalor (5)
His vote switch took it to Zeke (3), Chuggs (3), Ynnek (4), Kalor (5)
On the votes alone, that doesn't fit the jump from one inevitable train to another because the votes were even and his vote switched it. Might fit with the talk in the thread at the time but I don't really want to go read all the reads that were going on at that time x_x
Chuggs goes scum in thread, so the unvote for the opposing train is nothing.
Reasonable assumption. Could be a bit on the nose about their own switch, could not.
HP/Kalor/Hawthorn exchange on the bomber, again.
HP's obsession with the bomber is understandable, but Kalor responds to just about everything about them.
Continues to insist they could be neutral.
Obviously with the flip we know it's scum, but that sort of dissuasion could be intentional?
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My main takeaway is that Kalor was noncommital in their reads, is also way on top of bomb stuff, and also tried to push away from the Chuggs vote.
I... I don't think I expected that.
The push away is so weird because they went from scum reading him to not just like that.
Kalor
Townreads Feign and Shirou.
Thinks Ambulance's posts "read weirdly"
Has a back and forth with Maol about meta, implies he's using it to talk about posters without engaging with the content of their posts.
Thinks Feign's claim makes them town or neutral.
Skeptical of people who were more vocal against Feign after his second claim because it would be a threat to scum.
Disliked Jman fishing for more info on the role.
Off the back of the Feign flip, thinks Chugg's bomb speculation was "oddly specific and it's doubly so now"
Notes that LP previously asserted the same.
We now know Chuggs is teamed with the bomber, we didn't then.
Votes for Maol because he thought he was sticking out.
When Jman switches to the same train, questions him.
I don't think he answered.
Kopite fishes a bit with Ambulance. Kalor answers for him, which I'm noticing mainly because I've been told off for doing that before.
Ambulance doesn't answer.
Not sticking the read list in spoilers, want that visible.
Previously he thought Ambulance felt weird, but he's listing him as town.
Shirou asks about the list, the town section specifically.
Kalor's answer is noncommital.
Votes Chuggs because he previously thought he was mafia and is "just generally not a fan of their play so far"
In depth speculation on the reasoning for the bomber's target.
Makes an assertion that the bomber is probably neutral (we now know the bomber is scum).
Odin asks about the vote for Chuggs and the reasoning, answer seems noncommital.
Dismisses HP's assumption he was targetted on purpose by me/shirou/people who knew he'd panic, says he didn't think it would have been considered.
Comments on Chuggs and the very specific bomb posts again.
Chucks some shade at Maol, his previous target, about his read list seeming random. Thinks he's rolebaiting, but falsely?
Brief discussion with Hawthorn about Maol's reads / strategy.
Looks like he disapproves of the play more than the reads?
#2193
Slight defense of Chuggs' disappearance.
Suggestion that even if Monkey is right, scum don't need to kill her because town will turn on her if she lives.
Prods on Jman, Stan, Neki. Don't think any of them answered.
The turning point.
After previously admitting surprise about how few votes are down they now decide they don't think Chuggs is mafia.
They think the watcher claim looks fine, and turn on Ynnek instead thinking they're "deliberately trying not to stand out" which... kinda applies to him too.
ATP finds them suspicious, thinking they were hopping from a train they thought was inevitable to a different one.
I hate vote analysis.
Before he switched the vote was
Zeke (3), Chuggs (4), Ynnek (3), Kalor (5)
His vote switch took it to Zeke (3), Chuggs (3), Ynnek (4), Kalor (5)
On the votes alone, that doesn't fit the jump from one inevitable train to another because the votes were even and his vote switched it. Might fit with the talk in the thread at the time but I don't really want to go read all the reads that were going on at that time x_x
Chuggs goes scum in thread, so the unvote for the opposing train is nothing.
Leaving this one unspoilered.
Reasonable assumption. Could be a bit on the nose about their own switch, could not.
HP's obsession with the bomber is understandable, but Kalor responds to just about everything about them.
Continues to insist they could be neutral.
Obviously with the flip we know it's scum, but that sort of dissuasion could be intentional?
__________
My main takeaway is that Kalor was noncommital in their reads, is also way on top of bomb stuff, and also tried to push away from the Chuggs vote.
I... I don't think I expected that.
The push away is so weird because they went from scum reading him to not just like that.