Nier: Automata Mafia - To serve mankind... up on a platter via vote.

[EzekelRAGE]

Im on my break and this sushi aint gonna eat itself but are quotes nessesary? You just brought up the two scum team thing, i refered you back to that several times after and you continued to ignore me.

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Yea quotes are needed, gonna need you back up this statement here

and youve called me useless several times before today.

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Below is the stuff about the 2 scum team

Spoiler

Talkin about a potential 2nd scum team doesnt nothing but allow scum to hide in busy work.

We have a town flip and we have a scum flip.

TIme for yall to do some actual scum hunting.

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Busy at work atm so posting will be intermittent.


Nah if theres two scum teams then its pretty vital analyse people from that perspective, and people discusing its viability in only the first hour of the day is hardly busywork, esp when its being directly applied to many peoples exusting reads rather than taken in isolation.
, this is a strange attempt to downplay a very valid gamestate concern.

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I guess you see me not responding to this as ignoring you? Again I saw no point in discussing the topic at that time and from the way you worded if I responded it was gonna keep going.

Next day you post:

Also to clarify a bit on my zeke chugg thing, it started from the day start "its a distraction to discuss the two teams' thing from zeke, i believed what i said but i really went out there with it to start an argument with zeke since thats generally when i get my best reads of him, typically at a loss on him otherwise, so him just dropping that line entirely seemed real odd but i left it there since maybe zekes not as into the arguments like he used to be

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Looks like i was right in not takin the "bait"

What does arguing with you about why scum team speculation is trash accomplish? It's a waste, you or anyone else would never convince me it's a good idea at this point in the game. Easier to just put those ppl contiuing the discussin in the scum pile and keep it moving.

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I respond to your post above and explain my position.

Well now thats just entirely stupid.
Even if you think its an unlikely idea you cant possibly believe its a literally entirely invalid concern, nor that it could only be brought up for scummy reasons.
And even if thats truly your perspective, arguing the point your so certain on would give you more ammunition for both making scum reads and getting them voted out.
Like its why we argue things in mafia in the first place, youve spent most of this day phase proving it via your own actions.

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That reads to me like you want to argue about why we should argue

w/e you can have it

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I respond with the above because again.......there's no point in this argument.

Yeah i really dont see you of all people ever refusing to argue a point you think you really have someone on.

vote: EzekelRAGE

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Correct, and you saw me arguing with Chuggs and Neeks. I see no reason to argue with you about why spec about 2 scum teams is bad this early. It's a dumb argument and better to let you be wrong. Seems like you are just salty I'm not arguing with you specifically.

You can carry on stan

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[EzekelRAGE]

I did the same thing with Jman

Given new facts who does everyone think the Even night kill is? Sawneeks or Sorain?

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That speculation gets us no where.

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I wanna know

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^ I didnt respond to that...........because I made a mental note to put Jman in the scum pile due to wanting to discuss it.

 

[jman1954goat]

I did the same thing with Jman







^ I didnt respond to that...........because I made a mental note to put Jman in the scum pile due to wanting to discuss it.

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Surely you know me well enough by know to realize I want to discuss anything.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

Surely you know me well enough by know to realize I want to discuss anything.

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[Stantastic]

Yea quotes are needed, gonna need you back up this statement here


Below is the stuff about the 2 scum team

Spoiler

I guess you see me not responding to this as ignoring you? Again I saw no point in discussing the topic at that time and from the way you worded if I responded it was gonna keep going.

Next day you post:

Looks like i was right in not takin the "bait"


I respond to your post above and explain my position.


That reads to me like you want to argue about why we should argue


I respond with the above because again.......there's no point in this argument.

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Ill get the useless quotes when i get home then but to the rest,
when i make a point of direct and reasoned dissagreement with you, like to the point of scumreading you for it, snd you dont respond at all then yeah i take that as you ignoring me and not taking me as a player or the argument im making seriously.
Like, this game is entirely about argumentation, its my primary way of trying to figure people out, not arguing is just like, why play?

 

[Stantastic]

Like, i just expect people to tell me why when they dissagree with me, i figured it was basic courtesy.

You following it up with all the gifs and calling me useless really didnt help the feeling.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

Ill get the useless quotes when i get home then but to the rest,
when i make a point of direct and reasoned dissagreement with you, like to the point of scumreading you for it, snd you dont respond at all then yeah i take that as you ignoring me and not taking me as a player or the argument im making seriously.
Like, this game is entirely about argumentation, its my primary way of trying to figure people out, not arguing is just like, why play?

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Not gonna argue with you just to argue with you. I eventually explained my position and you scumread me for it. So yea.......ima keep it moving when it comes to that topic.

 

[Stantastic]

Not gonna argue with you just to argue with you. I eventually explained my position and you scumread me for it. So yea.......ima keep it moving when it comes to that topic.

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You should try it man, its enlightening.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

Like, i just expect people to tell me why when they dissagree with me, i figured it was basic courtesy.

You following it up with all the gifs and calling me useless really didnt help the feeling.

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All the times I've used useless in this thread

Only one directed at you is when you called me stupid

 

[EzekelRAGE]

You should try it man, its enlightening.

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sure, not on 2 team spec on Day 2.

 

[Stantastic]

All the times I've used useless in this thread

Only one directed at you is when you called me stupid

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Huh, im sure there was at least 2 priors.

Well then, consider that halfway taken back.

sure, not on 2 team spec on Day 2.

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You really cant entertain a world where you could be wrong about it, and other people have good reason for persuing the idea?

 

[EzekelRAGE]

Huh, im sure there was at least 2 priors.

Well then, consider that halfway taken back.

You really cant entertain a world where you could be wrong about it, and other people have good reason for persuing the idea?

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For day 2 with hardly any information............nope.

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

HP i can confirm you tomorrow if you want. your choice.

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Don't think anyone has mentioned this? From Sneeks on D2. Soft cop claim could explain why she got killed N2.

Also if we assume she used her track on HP, it creates a sort of circle where Sneeks targeted HP who targeted Monkey who targeted Sneeks.

 

[MrHedin]

Name names.

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Maol, Hawthorn, and Zeke (although to a lesser extent).

What is becoming more interesting to me is that it really feels like EC, Neon, Cheshire, Neki, and Ephi are mostly staying out of things. There is really a clear line of who is engaging with everything and who isn't. If we take EC's claim at face value then I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't scum between Neon, Cheshire, and Ephi...kind of getting the feeling that some of those are likely just sitting back and watching the chaos.

 

[Stantastic]

I mean if we wanna get back on pure gut reads then Ephis scum 100% for real for real.

For day 2 with hardly any information............nope.

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Well, my apologies, your really just that obstinate.

 

[EvilChameleon]

What is becoming more interesting to me is that it really feels like EC, Neon, Cheshire, Neki, and Ephi are mostly staying out of things.

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This is horseshit. I'm on track to have more posts on this day than any other day by quite a bit. And that's typical of my playstyle. The longer I'm in, the more information I have to share, and the more I post.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

I mean if we wanna get back on pure gut reads then Ephis scum 100% for real for real.


Well, my apologies, your really just that obstinate.

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[Dr. Monkey]

Welp. That narrows that one down a bit. I'm working through stuff, and tomorrow is my personal day, so I'm good to dig. Claims aside, I'm digging into all four of these. I know there were expressed concerns about blowing through this wagon, and that's reasonable - I'm not only going to look here - but I'd bet at least one whole toe there's a Team Odd scum here. It's already borne out exactly as said previously: a comfortable place for mafia to be.

I will say that today's events make Stan highly unlikely to be team Rando unless it really is 3 and the other partner is super embedded. So if there is a second member of team Rando there, I'm comfortable saying it's not likely to be Stan, at least.

 

[Dr. Monkey]

Some gamestate thoughts:
If c4 was blocked on n1 and that explains Maol's result, then we're down to only a few unaccounted for actions. We have an informed control/redirect. If doubling is consistent, probably another role. Stan and Neki are both more likely to be team odd. If this is an odd ability, that makes them both more likely to be town than not. Yeah, room for doubt, but just thinking probabilities.

By PoE then, that makes Hawthorn and Maol the most likely Team Odd candidates on that wagon. Still gonna look at all four, but just general thoughts. Team Even candidate pool still very large because so many people were scattered and he had so few connections.

 

[NeonBorealis]

Finally. I'm done for the day. That was a long one. Sorry for being absent for most of the day. I'll try to reread the day so far and make my posts.

Can we talk about this?

Neki seems like an odd target, but I looked back through your reads and but Neki as a choice aligns with your posts/reason for targeting (at least among the people you mentioned as not having much read on). Did you consider anyone you scumread?

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I guess I can start with this.

I went through the following process with the main driving question being: Who'd give me the most information on a single track.

I listed all remaining players and ordered them in three categories, based on the information I had at EoD3.

1. (X axis) Who would be the most likely to die on N3? This is because the more likely someone is to die, the more risky is to make a rack, since I'd probably end up with useless information about who that person visited. I ranked everyone from 0 (most likely) to 10 (least likely). I considered that the players with the most question marks around them, or the ones that had made the least noise were the ones that would be safe, since scum likes to leave them as question marks to lynch later.
2. (Y axis) Who could be town or scum (from my perspective, based on what I felt on EoD3). You can read this as my reads list sans the fact that now Jman is all the way to the left and stan has also moved to the left. Jman in particular was all the way to the right because I had theorized him as a possible EvenScum based on voting paterns (see, day 3).
3. (Z axis) How much do I know about the roles (at EoD3), In this case, people who hadn't claimed got an immediate 10 in the scale, while people who had soft claimed or whose claim was put into question were further down. Zeke and Ephi were all the way at 0, since they claimed VT and thus, wouldn't give any information. Haw was a 5 because she apparently (I don't remember when), volunteered for Sorian's expriments(tm), which could indicate a weak role if town (admittedly, my reasoning was a bit off with that one). I originally ordered this as weak vs strong known roles, but there were so many unknowns, that this scale was useless.

Warning, the images are big.

Spoiler: Axis data (please, pardon the horrible hadwriting)

I was also looking for the inventor at the time, so I also took that into consideration.

Based on these 3 axis, I made a 3d graph with all players as points. The further they were to the 10,10,10 point, the more I could learn from a track (potentially). I ended up choosing the group of Ec, Haw, Jman and Neki. After that I spent a long time deliberating and second guessing myself before finally deciding on Neki.

Spoiler: Graph

I ended up leaving considerations empty because it was already 2AM when I finished the graph and I needed to sleep.

I also briefly considered following HP, since I wanted to see if he was bluffing about his second Vig kill, but ultimately decided against it since he was a prime candidate for a NK (and lo and behold!).

 

[NeonBorealis]

Gah. I'm tired. I meant to say the closer that a point is to the 10,10,10 corner, the more I could potentially learn from a track. Not further.

 

[Stantastic]

Uhuh, no one said anything anything about reading graphs, get me out of this place.

 

[NeonBorealis]

Uhuh, no one said anything anything about reading graphs, get me out of this place.

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Hey. Some people can order their thoughts in a couple of sentences. I'm more of a visual person and I can order my thoughts better when I draw them on paper (or cg, but I didn't have the energy then).

Besides. It's mostly just a visual guide. And it was fun to make.

 

[Stantastic]

Hey. Some people can order their thoughts in a couple of sentences. I'm more of a visual person and I can order my thoughts better when I draw them on paper (or cg, but I didn't have the energy then).

Besides. It's mostly just a visual guide. And it was fun to make.

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I dont know how to type out a cat hiss/growl noise but imagine im doing that the second graphs are presented

 

[NeonBorealis]

I can say this based on today's claims.
1.- Neki is not likely Odd Mafia if (and only if) we believe that the order/roleblocker power is an OddScum power (which seems to be the case, since nobody has claimed any such activity for night 2.
2.- Same would apply to Stan, but not so much for Maol. While I'm not saying he is scum, Odd Scum could use the (you must use your power on Maol or be blocked as a coverup? Just a possibility I'm spitballing.
3.- The reason I was skeptic about Maol's claim was the Scanner I recieved during night 2. I was thinking that Maol also had a scanner and had used is as coverup. But since that whole mess was already resolved, I do think his claim could be legit (though we onnly have his word for it, so I'll keep it in the alledged role claim pile).
4.- I've been eyeing the D1 lynch wagon since N1 and my main suspects for scum always were Haw, Hp and to a lesser extent C4 (though I didn't see C4 as a main suspect at the time because I thought it would be dumb for two scums to post one right next to the other (N1, we didn't know yet of multiball). Since the only one left is Haw (and Maol, Neki and Stan, but I doubt they are odScum(in the case of Neki and Stan) or scum in general (Maol) my suspicions fall on Haw.

 

[NeonBorealis]

I dont know how to type out a cat hiss/growl noise but imagine im doing that the second graphs are presented

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Understandable. But since I'll stay around to keep playing mafia games, be prepared to see (and semi-ignore, I won't judge) more graphs from me.

 

[NeonBorealis]

An additional thoughts:
5.- I'm still standing that if Monkey is not mafia (or is OddScum), the remaining EvenScum set her up to be the main topic of conversation and is semihiding (no reason to stand out too much, since you are the only team member left, and it is risky to stand out) while at the same time pushing for Monkey's lynching though not in an overtly aggressive way.

Almost forgot.

Vote: Hawthorn

 

[NeonBorealis]

Anyways. I'm super tired. So I'm going to sleep. See you guys tomorrow.

 

[Dr. Monkey]

Neki: develops a read on Chuggs throughout the day. He's not loudly in the mix, but the read feels organic, though is never pushed heavily. . (Not sure there was much reason to, considering....) Does show up consistently in posts. As I read through, I believe Neki's feelings on Chuggs are genuine. Could be scum hunting scum, but honestly with Neki's position in the game state, I'm not seeing it.

Deep dive into ISO has no particular moments I can't explain or that feel forced. Some overt concern over mild pressure, but because Neki is not in any particular danger, when looking at his ISO in a vacuum, that feels more like Game of Mafia grumbling rather than something in this game. Stuck out some at the time but feels better now. I actually like Neki's considerations with flavor. Careful and thoughtful with assumptions and aware of nuance. Stan's doing that too, I think. It makes me feel better about both of them. They have thoughts but they aren't locking in without reason. Neki has a lot of good posts in here, posts that look even better in hindsight, honestly.

Neki had some strong engagement with Hawthorn early on which makes me want to look there next, but I really don't want to look there next because it feels like a big ol waste of time. but this consideration made me realize there is a venn diagram in which there is a pool of people most likely to be Team Odd from the d1 vote and people who could more easily be a redirector, and the only person in both groups is Hawthorn. do not forget this.

sidenote: I keep running across Ephidel in some of these and I think I will put her higher on my list of deep dives, just in case.

 

[Dr. Monkey]

3.- The reason I was skeptic about Maol's claim was the Scanner I recieved during night 2. I was thinking that Maol also had a scanner and had used is as coverup. But since that whole mess was already resolved, I do think his claim could be legit (though we onnly have his word for it, so I'll keep it in the alledged role claim pile).

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Maol is very likely a tracker, because I confirmed (half) his results n2 and a no result n1 could explain some things if it was accurate. Just tracker doesn't mean much for alignment, as with all the claims.

 

[Dr. Monkey]

Speaking of FALLEN TOWN HEROES
Neki:
Chuggs didn't say much
Sneeks had Neki trending up and that vibes with how I'm seeing his posts, too - at that point, Neki's town stock was definitely rising
HP had Neki as null

So nothing much to be found there. anex died early and I didn't bother looking.

Addendum to Neki, on a re-read of these: I will say in a vacuum, these two posts look like they could be TMI, especially the second one, but on the other hand, in multiball, Neki would not be likely to know Chuggs was town. They don't move my needle, but I thought I'd put them out there just in case. They are at least a little odd.

Chuggs I don't even know why you're acting so defeatist when you and 2 other people have 3 votes on you. It's not a run-away wagon at all but you're acting like all of town is against you.

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I mean I got fake red-checked last game and had two people tunnel on me despite me giving reasonable explanations for the whole day so I do know the feeling of getting tunneled as town.

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--
Stan:
Chuggs seemed to townread him, and had some specific reasons
Sneeks echoed Chuggs' read
HP had Stan as null.

--
Hawthorn:
All the dead people sans c4 scumread Hawthorn, except HP, who had her as... null. lol
c4 townread her with some conviction. not a fallen town hero, but noting for posterity.

--
Maol:
Lot of up and down on Maol. Not surprising, as d2 was his light day.
HPSauce had him in scumreads.
Sneeks voted him but it seemed more a better-than-Chuggs vote than any real conviction.

I did not remember HP having him there. huh.

Sidenote re: Ephi: Sneeks read Ephi's EoD like I did, and she'd been on Ephi so that does give me some pause
The neutrals, for the record, both scumread Maol and were split on Hawthorn, but that's a 50/50 all around.

"monkey, why are you wasting time on this, it's just reads"
yeah, just reads. but i am going back and re-reading chunks in context, too, which helps with developing my reads on folks

 

[Dr. Monkey]

Hawthorn next, but also bed soon so will finish in the morning.
I may do Maol first just because I am curious about whether or not his engagement has actually gone up since his absent days.

Since it's one off a tie, though, let me leave this everyone else to come back to:
vote: Hawthorn

I don't know if I'm gonna stay here but a tie at this point feels okay. please keep us two away from turbo, though. I'll unvote in the morning if I need to for numbers.

I'm shelving LP for now. He's snide and not being particularly helpful but I'd rather see what he does on his own than under question anyway, and I'd rather spend the time re-reading Ephi after the other two.

 

[Dr. Monkey]

Hmm. This is interesting. I noticed that I was voting with some of the same people so I went back to d2-d3 (since I wasn't here d1) and bolded my current strongest townreads to locate them.

and right now I'm with two of them on Hawthorn, which isn't too surprising considering, but it also weirdly makes me want to push Neon into my town reads. All these people can't just be pocketing each other and it's too many to all be scum, but these are consistently the people I've felt very strong reasons to townread and it makes me feel a smidge better to see the patterns.

 

[lokiduck]

==== DAY 4 VOTES ====
Day Start

Hawthorn (4 votes)
jman1954goat - #3,434 #3,447
jman1954goat - #3,459
Stantastic - #3,531
NeonBorealis - #3,727
Dr. Monkey - #3,732

Dr. Monkey (4 votes)
EzekelRAGE - #3,353
Hawthorn - #3,354
EvilChameleon - #3,391 #3,443
Maolfunction - #3,413
EvilChameleon - #3,673

EzekelRAGE (0 votes)
jman1954goat - #3,447 #3,459

Not voting: CheshireCat, Neki, MrHedin, Ephidel, Lone_Prodigy

Post Counts:
EzekelRAGE: 90 jman1954goat: 79 Stantastic: 62 Maolfunction: 52 Dr. Monkey: 42 NeonBorealis: 34 EvilChameleon: 31 Hawthorn: 30 CheshireCat: 27 MrHedin: 16 Lone_Prodigy: 12 Ephidel: 7 Neki: 6

Current Countdown:

Click here to go to the Vote Tool!

 

[EzekelRAGE]

An additional thoughts:
5.- I'm still standing that if Monkey is not mafia (or is OddScum), the remaining EvenScum set her up to be the main topic of conversation and is semihiding (no reason to stand out too much, since you are the only team member left, and it is risky to stand out) while at the same time pushing for Monkey's lynching though not in an overtly aggressive way.

Almost forgot.

Vote: Hawthorn

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How was she setup to be the main topic of conversation? Did the puppet control maol, hp, and Monkey to cause this?

Our tracker caught her visiting the dead person AND visiting herself.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

Speaking of FALLEN TOWN HEROES

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Since you have replaced in, EVERY dead person has scumread you. From our loudest town to two lonewolf neutrals.

Monkey can you help me understand this, I brought it up earlier.

It's fucking WILD to me then that people are throwing down votes and acting like it's a done deal. It's not a red check. I was already starting to talk about my nefarious visit to Sneeks before Maol even claimed. I just walked in and told on myself and y'all act like the game is done. We have people who haven't even posted or even attempted to try to make their ideas work logically at all and no one seems to care. No one can even agree if I'm the killer or not last night. But that doesn't matter somehow?

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I also have information that may or may not matter. I would like to hear from HP first at least re: the shot but that may not matter either.

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No, maybe more accurate to say: I am pretty sure it matters, at least regarding the game structure, but I want to hear from HP first.

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Why would a doctor with one more shot claim in this situation? Like the only info you have is.........you protected Neeks and she died. We already knew scum had strong kills with Random's flip. So what new revelation did you have about the game structure?

 

[MrHedin]

Time to get my vote down: Vote: Hawthorn

Look at the anex vote for people who have not flipped:

Maol - claimed tracker, stated results for N2 partially matches what Monkey claims
Stan - believable machine doctor claim
Neki - apparently cleared by EC (we're not quite sure what the nature of that clear is however)

And then there is Hawthorn just sitting there. I find it very hard to believe there was only one scum on that vote out of 10 possible players and if we're thinking the scum teams are kind of small it makes sense that a second scum there would be of a different alignment.

She really started feeling off for me on Day 3 with going after Monkey. Not because of Maol's results which would be understandable but she was going so hard on Monkey about the Chugg vote and pushing that case. Do you know who else was on at Chugg vote, conveniently in the middle of the pile? Yep, Hawthorn herself! She just conveniently ignores that she also voted there but finds it acceptable to go after Monkey for that vote.

This has all the earmarks of a scum Hawthorn smelling blood in the water with Monkey. Either way she wins, she either gets out a doctor role or takes out someone from the other scum team.

 

[Neki]

Stantastic I didn't see, did you say if you are x-shot or unlimited shots like Monkey? If you're not comfortable disclosing, that's fine. I was reading through old posts and must have missed Monkey being unlimited shots which seems wild to me but given it's conditional, it somewhat makes sense?

 

[EzekelRAGE]

Stantastic I didn't see, did you say if you are x-shot or unlimited shots like Monkey? If you're not comfortable disclosing, that's fine. I was reading through old posts and must have missed Monkey being unlimited shots which seems wild to me but given it's conditional, it somewhat makes sense?

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Her having unlimited shots makes no sense at all.

 

[Neki]

I mean Stan was asking Monkey to give him a vest today with his wink winks so given that even team unlikely has a role blocker at this point because of their strongman, means Stan should be protected for a day if Monkey lives. A lot of assumptions on that though.

 

[Ephidel]

I've been standing at work getting increasingly uncomfortable with the fact I saw that *I'm going to tie this up but the rest of you should think twice about voting* before I started and said and did nothing.

I think this is the right vote and I don't want to see us get talked out of it again.

Vote: Monkey

 

[Stantastic]

Stantastic I didn't see, did you say if you are x-shot or unlimited shots like Monkey? If you're not comfortable disclosing, that's fine. I was reading through old posts and must have missed Monkey being unlimited shots which seems wild to me but given it's conditional, it somewhat makes sense?

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unlimited, id reason that monkey is to because half her attempts to hand them out are expected to fail.
or y'know more than half if shes as great at picking targets as me.

Im going to sleep now, im tired and dont care anymore, turbo if you really want to iv said all i really care to this phase,
just know that if im right and somehow also survive the night im going to fukin insufferable tomorrow lmao.

 

[Stantastic]

Oh wait fore it just gets left in the wind, somebody chase up that multiball scum doctor precedent i someone brought up earlier, see if that actually relates to this scenario at all.

Also Era it trying its hardest to not let this post thorgh and i smell collusion.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

I mean Stan was asking Monkey to give him a vest today with his wink winks so given that even team unlikely has a role blocker at this point because of their strongman, means Stan should be protected for a day if Monkey lives. A lot of assumptions on that though.

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Ahh stan answered with unlimited, *wink* , Ask yourself this why would a doctor (Monkey) plan on claiming Day 3, with unlimited shots without having a reason to?

Sidenote: Only scum wants this Monkey/Maol situation to go unresolved like this for so long. The longer this goes, the longer it can be a topic for to distract town and give town no answers.

 

[Ephidel]

I went through the following process with the main driving question being: Who'd give me the most information on a single track.

I listed all remaining players and ordered them in three categories, based on the information I had at EoD3.

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This post makes so many assumptions that are the complete opposite to those I'd make that I'm actualy inclined wonder if my continual unease with Neons posts is just because I'm looking at things completely differently.

4.- I've been eyeing the D1 lynch wagon since N1 and my main suspects for scum always were Haw, Hp and to a lesser extent C4 (though I didn't see C4 as a main suspect at the time because I thought it would be dumb for two scums to post one right next to the other (N1, we didn't know yet of multiball). Since the only one left is Haw (and Maol, Neki and Stan, but I doubt they are odScum(in the case of Neki and Stan) or scum in general (Maol) my suspicions fall on Haw.

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I don't understand why when doing the wagon analysis the assumption becomes that more scum has to be where scum have already been found, when half the playerbase were elsewhere.
Isn't it just as likely (or potentially even moreso) that they're amongst the others at this point?

An additional thoughts:
5.- I'm still standing that if Monkey is not mafia (or is OddScum), the remaining EvenScum set her up to be the main topic of conversation and is semihiding (no reason to stand out too much, since you are the only team member left, and it is risky to stand out) while at the same time pushing for Monkey's lynching though not in an overtly aggressive way.

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I was wondering why your consideration of Monkey is as OddScum rather than EvenScum at this point, as that seems to be the opposite of where most are going with that?

 

[EzekelRAGE]

NeonBorealis
Stantastic
MrHedin
jman1954goat
Neki
Lone_Prodigy

Do you not believe Maol's results?
What do you think about Monkey protecting a scumread over a claimed Vig N2? Then not protecting him N4 either.


Monkey's Day 1 read of Neeks

Sneeks is paying very close attention this game - first to comment on a couple of notable things. In both instances, visual responses (eyeballs, judgy image) - which just kinda feels like a blank. But I am not looking forward to trying to parse this multipage argument with Zeke.

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Monkey's Day 2 read of Neeks

It's not even caliber. Maol is probably legit busy. It's sheer avoidance, though, in a pretty package so that it looks nice and reasonable on the surface.

If I had three bullets and aimed in Chuggs-Maol-Sneeks, I'm not sure any one of them would fail to hit a wolf. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Sneeks is the one I feel is least likely, or maybe most likely to just be wrong.

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She says there is guaranteed scum in this triangle. With Chuggs flipping town, that increases the odds of Sneeks or Maol being scum.

Sneeks and Chuggs have buddied and echoed each other in weird ways throughout the game. Sneeks' reads have massive holes and often the conclusions don't match what she says at the end. Going for Ephi in the middle of everything before Ephi came back and posted today - when she had all of five posts in the phase - was very odd and feels very like a calculated deflection from Chuggs. It read like a very flimsy case to me - more like a prod vote than an actual scum case. Which is usually fine on d2, but right after a scum flip, it felt strange. But with Sneeks it could just be that... she's wrong. And vehement about it. I'm pondering.

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Does that sound like someone you would protect because you were wrong about a read? Does that sound like someone you would protect over the claimed Vigilante Night 2?

 

[Neki]

Who did Monkey protect N4? I'm having a very hard time parsing through all of Monkey's posts so I skim them very quickly.

 

[Neki]

N3*, typo.

 

[EzekelRAGE]

Who did Monkey protect N4? I'm having a very hard time parsing through all of Monkey's posts so I skim them very quickly.

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She didnt say. We just know it wasnt HP (who she couldve saved), because she thought that was a bad kill for some reason.

Oh wait fore it just gets left in the wind, somebody chase up that multiball scum doctor precedent i someone brought up earlier, see if that actually relates to this scenario at all.

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It literally has been done many times before by scum, whether it's a good idea or not. My team did it in fantasy star, and I think we might also have done it in Horror Movie mafia?

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I don't think mafia had fully developed fake claims. I think either Monkey is a scum doctor -- there's precedent for that in multiball, see Fantasy Star-- or she developed the fake claim, based on scum roles existing that target only machines or only androids

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Hedin who was the gamerunner oddly chimed in trying to downplay it

Fantasy isn't really a good example. I mostly did that to give the scum teams a sense that there was a powerful town.

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[Hawthorn]

It is unbelievable to me that people are considering voting me out today, truly unbelievable! I know that no matter what I do I always seem to end up looking like mafia, but usually I can kind of see where it's coming from. This game I just truly do not get it.

Suspicion based on my suspicion of Monkey is ridiculous, I'm sorry to say it, but it's true-- Monkey was caught red-handed, that is why I suspect her! Monkey acted like her mafia self D2, as both Sawneeks and Chuggernaut saw. Even if for some reason you think Monkey is town, surely you can see why someone would maybe think otherwise?

Suspicion based on mindlessly going down the line of the anex voters also makes zero sense to me. Guys, this is multiball. The teams were not thinking about spreading out their votes from each other, they were not thinking about coordinating their votes ... because they didn't know who each other are. Assuming that there were more mafia than Random (and c4 if you count him) on the anex vote is just a heuristic, not a rock-solid fact that has to lead to elimination. Wagons were more spread out D1 than it seems from the 10 votes on anex-- there were ten separate players with at least one vote against them, meaning that if you add up all the off-wagon votes that's collectively as popular a place to be as anex was -- and the off-wagon votes have been much less questioned.

Furthermore, to those defending Monkey: how do you account for the track result? This is not a minor thing. This is a huge hole in Monkey's explanation of events. Do you think Maol is lying? Because nobody defending Monkey seems to really scumread Maol, as far as I can tell. If not then where did the self-visit come from?? What kind of power could cause that? Why is it ok to brush that aside, but scum-read worthy to think that there being one type of doctor in the game doesn't mean that balance demands that there's another completely different type of doctor?

Today is the day to vote out Monkey. We cannot have another day consumed by this debate. In the 2% chance that she's town, she's made a lot of posts, which I hope we will give more consideration to than we've given to Sawneeks, Chuggernaut, and HP's reads so far.