• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

Elodes

Looks to the Moon
Member
Nov 1, 2017
1,231
The Netherlands
This is a reaction to this thread, which was in turn a reaction to Sekiro's difficulty level, which is very high even by Soulsbourne standards. To sketch the context from which my response comes, I will first quote a conversation held by three members in that thread. (None of them should feel like I am calling them out; their quoted opinions are common and respectable, and were voiced respectably.)

I'll quote Ian Hamilton from Twitter

Bayonetta. At a high level you might look at the experience being executing complex combos. Therefore removing the need to execute complex combos would fundamentally break the game. Right? Here's another way to look at it; instead of thinking about interactions, think about emotions. The experience you want players to have being the reward of flashy animations that you give them for pushing their motor skills to the limit. "The limit" is different for different people. For some people just managing to press a single button at the right time can be just as enjoyable and satisfying test of their motor skills as unforgiving frantic combos can be for other people. Bayonetta has a one button mode that offers just that. It didn't harm the core experience, it just opened it up to more people. People playing on one button or people playing on super hard are having equivalent experiences. More people able to have the experience the devs wanted.

Bayonetta has the design objective of making the player feel cool and skillful. Removing the need to execute them misses a bit the point of the game but if it is in favour of giving players that feel that they wouldn't be able to get otherwise while having still the option for skillful people to perform them by themselves, follows the design objectives of the game.

Sekiro has the design goal of making the player feel acomplished, and to feel acomplished a player must struggle, and to struggle the game has to have a high difficulty floor. Giving the option for players to not struggle goes completely against the design goal.

Don't you see how similar they actually are? The point of that twitter post was to focus on the emotions the player is feeling rather than the mechanics required.

If Bayonetta has a one-button mode you don't need to use it, but others can choose to.

If Sekiro had a more forgiving parry system or less difficult bosses, then people with lower skills or those that literally can't press buttons that quickly, would still be able to feel 'accomplished' - they would still struggle against bosses, but just 'differently struggle'

This last opinion is one that I see quite often; see it argued for in Kotaku here, too, with the headline being "An Easy Mode Has Never Ruined A Game." This is an idea that I absolutely disagree with, but I understand that denying it might seem nonsensical at first. Thus, without further ado...

e1TYj13.jpg


In this thread, I would like to offer three distinct arguments against the idea that easy modes should be included because they help open up the 'intended difficulty level' to players of varying skill levels.

This thread contains no spoilers for Sekiro.

I.
It is well-known that, when given the option, players will optimize the fun out of games. It's up to designers to make this impossible for the players. Inherent in this is the idea that constraining the player's choices can be good game design.

If Sekiro had an easy mode, then it likely would be chosen not merely by people who need it in order to have the intended experience of "overcome something ~3 skill levels above what you can currently handle." It would also be chosen by many, many people whose current skill level is maybe two or three levels below what Sekiro's default difficulty demands, who casually pick up Sekiro, die twice to the first miniboss on its current regular difficulty level, and then go "fuck it" and pick the easy mode. They miss that dying twice, or even fifteen times, is the intended experience. Offering them the option for an easier mode, can well cause them to optimize the intended experience out of the game.

You could make the argument that "maybe if they picked the too-easy-for-them mode, they never wanted the intended experience to begin with, so why force it on them?"

There are two answers to this:
I) When players optimize the fun out of a game, we don't view this as a conscious choice of the player ("Guess they never wanted fun to begin with!"), but instead we view it as a problem caused by the wrong choices on the designers' part.
II) The point of Sekiro (and of many other games, such as Rain World) is to make the player struggle, whereas we also know that players will always do whatever is necessary to avoid struggling -- even if this means lowering the difficulty. When the intended experience is so strongly against most players' instinctual desires, yet when we simultaneously accept that delivering the intended experience is of the utmost importance (and I think we should accept this), then maybe we should just disregard players' expressed desires altogether, in favour of giving them an experience that they might themselves never choose for, but which, ultimately, they might find themselves having loved.

In short: An easy difficulty mode will cause some players to suffer the intended amount, but will cause many others to struggle not at all; it is consistent and coherent to design your game in such a way that the second group's problem is fixed, at the cost of damning the first group. Sekiro's insistence on not having an easy difficulty mode, is thus a totally valid design decision, which seems to me to have been made after much contemplation of the above factors.


II.
Maybe the idea that skill levels are relative, is entirely wrong.

Maybe performing feat A is a qualitatively different experience from performing feat B. For example, there is no sense in which a veteran mountaineer's experience of climbing a high, dangerous mountain, is the same as a layman's experience of climbing some low mountain, even if the relative difficulty is the same. The two experiences are entirely different, and there is no way in which we can communicate the former experience to the layman, if the layman does not themselves make the effort to become the kind of person capable of experiencing this.
I propose that Sekiro's combat works similarly: There is no experience which is equal to the perfection which it demands of its players. No compromises could be made here: This experience is one-of-a-kind, and the only way Sekiro could have communicated it, is to require absolute mastery of its combat system from its players. Sekiro, recognizing this, tries to make this learning process quite smooth, clearly guiding the player on a journey that teaches the player more and more over time, utilizing minibosses that demand more and more from the player as they progress through the game; but there is so much to teach, and so little time and space in which to teach it. The learning curve is necessarily steep.

Above all, I want to stress that the experience which Sekiro offers the player who has been taught how to play it, is tremendous. It is one of the greatest gaming experiences I have had, and I do not think I could have been made to have it, had Sekiro compromised on the demands it makes of me. Had I been given an easy mode, I might have chosen it, and after beating the game I would have felt comfortably like I had beaten the game, not knowing that in fact I had beaten something else, something which is not Sekiro at all, something which is not similar to Sekiro and which cannot be said to hold any relation to the kind of thing Sekiro is trying to be. The two experiences would share superficial elements, such as the graphics and the story, but they would be altogether entirely different things; like twins with entirely different personalities, you cannot know one by knowing the other.

III.
There is commonly this idea that "Having more options is always better." But are there situations where would we view the addition of options as a negative? I can think of many such cases where most people here would agree that these games are not helped by the addition of certain options. Examples include:
1) A story-focused game (e.g. The Last of Us), gaining the option of having characters walk around in swimsuits, so as to broaden appeal to players who like that kind of thing.
2) A game that focuses on an overweight protagonist, gaining the option of making slimmer characters, so as to broaden appeal to players who dislike playing as overweight people.
3) A game that focuses on a black protagonist, gaining the option of playing as a white character instead, so as to broaden appeal to players who only want to play as white people.

In all these cases, the common factor is that the game itself is taking a stand for the legitimacy of some manner of thing or group: Respectively, the right of women not to have their bodies sexualized; the right of overweight people to exist and be the stars of their own stories; and the right of black people to exist and be the stars of their own stories.
In all these situations, we recognize that extra options can absolutely reduce the game's appeal even to people who are never going to make use of those options. These people gain power from what the game stands for, and adding options to broaden the game's appeal, would dilute the game's message. Thus we find that "You're not going to use the extra option anyway so what does it matter to you?" is not a legitimate argument. In the same vein, "This game's insistence on excluding me is disrespectful to people like me" doesn't work either: Games star black people not because the creators are against white people, but because they want to help legitimize stories that are about black people. Similarly, games with high difficulty levels should not be misunderstood to be against people who cannot meet their challenges; they're simply marking the legitimacy of another thing or group. (For more on this kind of thing, but in an unrelated context, I highly recommend TheUnitOfCaring's excellent piece on Competing Access Needs in safe spaces.)

It's pretty clear that Sekiro, like the Soulsbourne games before it, stands for something as well. Uncharitably, you might say it stands for the right of games to be difficult; charitably, you might instead describe it as the idea that "There is immense value in overcoming great obstacles and tremendous odds, and in a time where all players demand that games be made to fit them, it is important to create games that do not meet the players halfway, and for which the players instead must go the full distance themselves." For instance, in the original Dark Souls, it was necessary that the game be very subtle about helping the player, in order for that game's message to be successfully communicated. There was never a dearth of hard difficulty modes in gaming; but it was not until Demon's Souls came out and forcibly took a stand for difficulty, that the greater discussion about difficulty in videogames really broke loose, and all throughout the decade since, it has been the Soulsbourne series that remains at the heart of this discussion. Hard difficulties in videogames would not have had this level of legitimacy if FROM's games hadn't took a clear stance on this topic, and as someone who truly loves difficult videogames, someone who gets incredible personal value from overcoming things that are difficult or even unfair, I am very glad that FROM are keeping up their legacy with Sekiro. The fact that instead of trying to cater to everyone, they take a stance for people like me specifically -- that is something that actually means a lot to me, and you don't just get to take that away from me.

To people who aren't willing to meet a game on its own terms --- people who aren't willing to accept what it stands for, but who insist on having games be aimed entirely at them -- no matter how kind these people are or how understandable their problems may be... To them we ultimately really have only one possible response: Find a different game to play. There are other games that cater to you; let this one cater to us.

----------------------------
  • In general, I feel like the idea of "albums/movies/games as safe spaces" is both quite realistic and very undervalued. It explains a lot of media-adjacent drama.
  • Celeste's method of supplying multifarious accessibility options with the warning that the player will not have the intended experience if they choose to use them, has been oft-praised as a good solution to this general problem. I think this solution fails, since it does not deal with my point 1, above. It was probably the right solution for Celeste, in which the experience of climbing the mountain remains fairly constant, subject to most of the accessibility options which the game provided. In Sekiro's case, however, this solution wouldn't have worked: The experience of beating a foe who may hit you ten times without forcing you to deplete your whole stash of health recovery items, is qualitatively different from beating a foe who can kill you in two hits, and the former cannot hope to resemble the latter. In Celeste's case, its accessibility options didn't change the game's intended experience too much, and therefore they are fine. In Sekiro's case, I can't think of accessibility options that wouldn't change the game into something so different, that we might as well request the player play a different game altogether.
  • In a previous thread I noted that the Soulsbourne games are very aware of the community they're trying to create. This sense of community -- of all players united against a single set of bosses without qualifiers, of everyone fighting the same fight, of no one's suffering being worse than anyone else's because they played on a higher difficulty -- a lot of this feeling would be lost if difficulty modes were introduced. Playing these games introduces you to a community of people -- a very lovely community, as far as gaming communities go -- with whom you can sit down and be told, I know what you went through and I see that you went through it. That's some really valuable camaraderie. People often say it's elitist to want certain games not to have easy modes; I would counter that difficulty modes themselves are prone to breeding elitism.
  • Hi, this is my obligatory mention of Rain World. Rain World takes a stand for some absolutely astounding and revolutionary ideas in gaming. If the above words managed to convince you in any sense of Sekiro's right to exist as it is, but you also wish that Rain World were made easier: Please reconsider. The developers of Rain World actually did add an easier mode, The Monk, presumably as a response to the audience's reaction to Rain World's extreme difficulty; but Rain World's entire thematic core revolves around the tremendous difficulty faced when playing as its default protagonist, The Survivor. You will likely have an inferior experience playing as The Monk -- though when I say that, mind the context in which I say this, which with this thread I have now supplied.
 
Oct 28, 2017
362
Beerse, Belgium
I read up on impressions and decided I won't buy it (at least not at full price, maybe someday in a very good sale).

I don't want of the game (developers) to have an easy mode included.
 

TheMoon

|OT|
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,777
Video Games
[

To people who aren't willing to meet a game on its own terms --- people who aren't willing to accept what it stands for, but who insist on having games be aimed entirely at them -- no matter how kind these people are or how understandable their problems may be... To them we ultimately really have only one possible response: Find a different game to play. There are other games that cater to you; let this one cater to us.
The problem with this is that this takes absolutely nothing away from that game that caters to "you" and makes even parts of the experience inaccessible to people who would be interested but cannot get past certain twitch-skill hurdles. This is a bad take. You're coating elitism in a tl;dr post with hypothetical examples that serve no relevance (swimsuits?) to this issue. It's not about including the traditional difficulty slider at the start menu, it's about using the same clever game design skills that give us these lauded games again and again and put them to work on an option for players to experience parts of it without banging their heads against the wall. There are numerous ways to achieve this. And exactly none of them take that capital D Difficulty away from that "you" crowd that cherishes it so much.

(edited )
 
Last edited:

Dee Dee

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,868
It is well-known that, when given the option, players will optimize the fun out of games. It's up to designers to make this impossible for the players. Inherent in this is the idea that constraining the player's choices can be good game design.

You already lost me. But I'm sure this will be a fun discussion from people that enjoy having options taken from them.

Edit: I'd like to elaborate: If you make a hard game, that's fine. If you don't include an easy mode, that is also fine. But claiming that NOT including an easy mode will make people enjoy a game MORE is a stance I'm not following at all.
 

Unkindled

Member
Nov 27, 2018
3,247
From Software has a vision for how their game difficulty should be for their audience. That audience might not include all kind of people and that's fine.
 

Raijinto

self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
10,091
I don't know why people get so hung up on what difficulty mode/ customised experience people they will never meet have with certain video games. I played Cuphead on easy mode, and I also played Fallout 4 with mods that you wouldn't believe, literally every single mod ever all at once. I mean I didn't really, but you don't know for certain either way and you don't care too obviously yet here we are in a thread fretting about people not playing through the 'intended experience'.

I don't get it.
 

Carlius

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,000
Buenos Aires, Argentina
Am at the final boss of sekiro. 34 years old with shitty reflexes and i was able to get there. Took me.around 60 hrs, but i did it.

It was hard. It made me rage, but no way in hell do i want an easy mode. It was such a great feeling of satisfaction that i got, that i would not chnge it for anything.

Soulsbourne have their easy mode, and thats summoning. Something maybe ppl dont see.

The game sold very well on.steam judging by the peak numbers, there is a market.for this difficulty in a game and ppl.want it.
 

Dodgerfan74

Member
Dec 27, 2017
2,696
Equating representation to difficulty levels is hilariously weird. Not even sure what that part is going for.
 

Jordie

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
29
UK
Sekiro already optimises fun away on its own.

I've happily stopped playing at the final boss because I know I won't enjoy the 4 hour grind to beat them.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
The problem with this is that this takes absolutely nothing away from that game that caters to "you" and makes even parts of the experience inaccessible to people who would be interested but cannot get past certain twitch-skill hurdles. This is a bad take.
Yes it does. Resources are not infinite and taking time, part of the dev team, away from other projects to make a specifically tailored mode like this will absolutely result in something being taken away.
 

Deleted member 49438

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 7, 2018
1,473
Just do it like Halo did. One difficulty setting is intended, the others exist for those that want to try them. If the devs don't want to add one we can't stop them, but it's objectively worse to have fewer options.
 

Anustart

9 Million Scovilles
Avenger
Nov 12, 2017
9,037
I love souls and like sekiro, but this:

Find a different game to play. There are other games that cater to you; let this one cater to us.

GTFO. If it has an easy mode who cares, I wouldn't play it. The game would still cater to me. This topic comes up so often it's been beaten into the ground.
 

Death Penalty

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
3,290
The problem with this is that this takes absolutely nothing away from that game that caters to "you" and makes even parts of the experience inaccessible to people who would be interested but cannot get past certain twitch-skill hurdles. This is a bad take.
This. There's no downside to easy mode except the flimsy "but I don't have the willpower!" excuse. I think so many people get behind this stuff because they like the feel of an exclusive hardcore club.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,435
3) A game that focuses on a black protagonist, gaining the option of playing as a white character instead, so as to broaden appeal to players who only want to play as white people.

Sigh.

My man. Customization options don't directly affect gameplay. How you're using false equivalencies like this to discuss Sekiro is odd.
 

bluexy

Comics Enabler & Freelance Games Journalist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
14,510
Heard it here first, folks. Apparently enabling accessibility is really just "optimizing the fun out of games."
 

Deleted member 46804

User requested account closure
Banned
Aug 17, 2018
4,129
There is more to Sekiro, Dark Souls and Bloodborne than the challenge. There is the world, environments, story telling, gameplay systems. You are essentially locking people out of experiencing these things with the inherent challenge. There is no reason for them not to make an easier difficulty. Every other game does this and I'm sick of people acting like everyone will get good at these games. There are normal people with lower skill ceilings that will never be able to complete these games no matter how much time they put into them.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
Well yeah, I often use the elevator even though I could (and should) be using the stairs. Doesn't mean the elevator shouldn't be there to tempt me. I should practise some self-control and do what is right and best for me instead.
 

Rhiwion

Member
Oct 28, 2017
173
Germany
Communicate that Easy Mode or using Assist features are not the intended way to experience the game and should only be used when the need for them is there. That way, everyone who is just lazy for not sticking with the default, has really only themselves to blame. It's really not that hard. I don't get why we care so much about how lazy "normies" would ruin media for themselves when the benefits of inclusivity far outweigh that issue.
 

MC_Leon6494

Member
Sep 7, 2018
501
Nah fam. This ain't it. Accessibility options and 'easy modes' are a good thing for everybody because more people will get to enjoy the games they want to, not just the ones that are accessible to them.
A game designer can go "this is the recommended way to play" but still offer more difficult (demon bell) and less difficult ('easy mode') ways to experience the game alongside accessibility options.

The recommended / intended way is still there for people to play, and then decide for themselves if they want to add or subtract difficulty or accessibility options. Forcing a single experience on everybody cuts out those who want to play the game but can't for a variety of reasons, be it time commitments, physical or mental limitations, or something else entirely.
 

Phabh

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,701
Let players have options. Video-games are games, just like Lego, you don't have to strictly follow the instruction booklet to have fun.
Your take in very elitist and exclusive.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,145
Singapore
There is commonly this idea that "Having more options is always better." But are there situations where would we view the addition of options as a negative? I can think of many such cases where most people here would agree that these games are not helped by the addition of certain options. Examples include:
1) A story-focused game (e.g. The Last of Us), gaining the option of having characters walk around in swimsuits, so as to broaden appeal to players who like that kind of thing.
2) A game that focuses on an overweight protagonist, gaining the option of making slimmer characters, so as to broaden appeal to players who dislike playing as overweight people.
3) A game that focuses on a black protagonist, gaining the option of playing as a white character instead, so as to broaden appeal to players who only want to play as white people.
Equating people wanting an easier game because they struggle with quick reflexes with perverted gamers, fat shamers, and racists is........ a fucking terrible argument. Do better.
 

TheMoon

|OT|
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,777
Video Games
Yes it does. Resources are not infinite and taking time, part of the dev team, away from other projects to make a specifically tailored mode like this will absolutely result in something being taken away.
You've gotta be kidding me. I've seen this "resources being taken away" excuse before but in the case of Sekiro, something as simple as having that respawn mechanic be infinite in a "Shadows don't Die-mode" would go a long way and take absolutely zero resources away.
 

Dio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,096
"oh, this means the player wont experience the intended struggle." i mean, that's the player prerogative. he bought it, let him enjoy however he wants to.
and looooool at equating accessibility and difficulty modes with representations. the actual fuck op.
Yes it does. Resources are not infinite and taking time, part of the dev team, away from other projects to make a specifically tailored mode like this will absolutely result in something being taken away.
depending on how they would balance an easy mode, it's basically editing a spreadsheet. an easy mode isn't this expensive thing people are trying to portray as.
 

Saint-14

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
14,477
On one hand offering an easy mode will make the game accessible to more people, on the other hand the challenge is part of the experience and I'm not sure if an easy mode will hurt it.
 

R.T Straker

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,715
Man, we're at the 5th Miyazaki game in the last 10 years. Do people never learn?

The subject always comes and it ends up in the exact same place. It's not happening, move on and play something else.
 

Strat

Member
Apr 8, 2018
13,329
Which thread are we voting off of ERA? The shlooter shit or the Sekiro hot takes?
 

Dee Dee

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,868
Yes it does. Resources are not infinite and taking time, part of the dev team, away from other projects to make a specifically tailored mode like this will absolutely result in something being taken away.

By that equation we could argue that devs shouldn't go on holiday or surf the internet during work time because that means resources and time is not being put into something.
This is not how project management works.
You scope out the resources and time based on the features you want. If you want to add a feature (i.e. easy mode) you add resources and time.
If you don't do that, then your project management sucks.
 

DontHateTheBacon

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,307
This discussion feels impossible because people keep conflating accessibility with difficulty.

EDIT: This topic is also starting to feel like a political discussion, in that most people have their minds made up and don't care to be open to changing them... so I'll edit this and just leave the beginning.
 

Doc Kelso

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,154
NYC
In the case of the current lineup from FromSoft, their games fall apart once they're easier. Sekiro is boring as hell when you aren't trying to maximize the risk:reward that is engaging with combat encounters. I'm sure they can design better ways of making the game "easier" without having to detract from the moment-to-moment, but as it stands? Their games thrive on the tension created by the difficulty. That difficulty is partially responsible for the oppressive atmosphere their games always exist within. It's responsible for some of the immersion you experience, even frustration and outright anger.

I have full faith in the company, but their games would have to change in tone.
 

Budi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,883
Finland
"oh, this means the player wont experience the intended struggle." i mean, that's the player prerogative. he bought it, let him enjoy however he wants to.
and looooool at equating accessibility and difficulty modes with representations. the actual fuck op.

depending on how they would balance an easy mode, it's basically editing a spreadsheet. an easy mode isn't this expensive thing people are trying to portray as.
Yes and people definitely have very different limits and situations where they struggle. As Miyazaki has said, the intent is to succeed through persistence. But when it's impossible to succeed, as it is to some, then that vision doesn't fulfil. Giving more options to the player that they get to that point would help it happen.
 

Deleted member 2550

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
193
Nah fam. This ain't it. Accessibility options and 'easy modes' are a good thing for everybody because more people will get to enjoy the games they want to, not just the ones that are accessible to them.
A game designer can go "this is the recommended way to play" but still offer more difficult (demon bell) and less difficult ('easy mode') ways to experience the game alongside accessibility options.

The recommended / intended way is still there for people to play, and then decide for themselves if they want to add or subtract difficulty or accessibility options. Forcing a single experience on everybody cuts out those who want to play the game but can't for a variety of reasons, be it time commitments, physical or mental limitations, or something else entirely.
They're not forcing an experience on everyone. Nobody is being forced to play the game.
 

jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
"oh, this means the player wont experience the intended struggle." i mean, that's the player prerogative. he bought it, let him enjoy however he wants to.
and looooool at equating accessibility and difficulty modes with representations. the actual fuck op.

depending on how they would balance an easy mode, it's basically editing a spreadsheet. an easy mode isn't this expensive thing people are trying to portray as.
That still requires taking someone off of something else and putting them on another project. And for many people a damage reduction number wouldn't be enough, especially for a game like sekiro where not only does it expect you to know its system and be comfrotable with it in every engagement but that youre also able to make tenth of second reactions to enemies in rapid succession which wouldn't be something that would be as easy to mess with as a damage reduction number.

Man, we're at the 5th Miyazaki game in the last 10 years. Do people never learn?

The subject always comes and it ends up in the exact same place. It's not happening, move on and play something else.
This is ultimately all that needs to be said. Miyazaki isn't giving his games an easy mode, that should be perfectly clear by now. That said I think there is valuable discussion to be had regarding to this topic anyway even if we just use Miyazaki games a springboard
 

andymcc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,271
Columbus, OH
Equating people wanting an easier game because they struggle with quick reflexes with perverted gamers, fat shamers, and racists is........ a fucking terrible argument. Do better.

Seriously lmao

If From were to implement an easy mode, it'd be tongue-in-cheek and still be hard as shit and then just make the default difficulty even more insane. Like Alien Solider's "Super Easy".
 

Chivalry

Chicken Chaser
Banned
Nov 22, 2018
3,894
I don't particularly care about the 'intended' experience, because the moment I start the game the experience belongs to me (through mods, cheats, trainers, etc if needed) by playing it however I want. I'm sure sekiro's story is also the intended experience but you can still skip every cutscene in the game. Many hardcore games offer easy modes, like bayonetta or total war or whatever, and nobody whines that it destroys the supposed integrity or experience. People just want to feel superior to the plebians who can't 'git gud' and you know it.
 

Mr.Branding

Banned
May 11, 2018
1,407
Let players have options. Video-games are games, just like Lego, you don't have to strictly follow the instruction booklet to have fun.
Your take in very elitist and exclusive.

Ugh. What is it with people and this video games/Lego analogy I see everywhere lately? They are nothing alike, they have different purposes.
I have a kid, we play with Lego and indeed we make new stuff every day but Lego has that exact purpose, you're not supposed to make the set in the box and keep it there.
Video games have a clear vision and goal, especially From games. You have options to overcome certain difficulty walls but they are limited to what the creators want.

I agree with OP 100% even if GA is kicking my ass as we speak. It's the most fun I've had in video games in a while.
 

blakdeth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
269
I find it bizarre that even relatively progressive gaming groups are melting down over the thought of adding an easy mode to challenging games. Y'all have to see that this is some gate-keeping bullshit - right?
 

Jawbreaker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
New York City
It could be as simple as being an uncompromised artistic vision that they don't want compromised with an easy mode. Or perhaps they understand that having a single difficulty that's more difficult than your average game nowadays is part of the appeal and what helps the games sell so well.
 

Siggy

Member
Dec 12, 2017
264
Man, we're at the 5th Miyazaki game in the last 10 years. Do people never learn?

The subject always comes and it ends up in the exact same place. It's not happening, move on and play something else.
It's not just Miyazaki. FromSoft games have been difficult and punishing ever since they got into game development 25 years ago. The very first King's Field confronts you with enemies that can OHKO you to a game over screen before your first save point. It's particularly relevant because the game that put Miyazaki on the map, Demon's Souls, was so King's-Field-like when he took over that it was still first person.

All that to say: Yes, they've been doing this for 25 years and have only gotten more successful. So deal with it, scrubs.
 

Baccus

Banned
Dec 4, 2018
5,307
FROM made their choice. Let's see how the market reacts to it. I believe they are starting to go overboard.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.