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DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
Star Wars voice actor Sam Witwer is the latest to join the debate about Disney's sequel trilogy by claiming Rian Johnson didn't do his homework when writing and directing the divisive Star Wars: The Last Jedi.

Discussing The Last Jedi's place in the trilogy, Witwer told Twitch fans during a Star Wars Battlefront II stream, "Last Jedi, to me, felt like a movie made by a guy who hadn't quite done his homework." He went on to explain, "I think Rian Johnson's a talented guy, but Bruce Lee didn't develop Jeet Kune Do without learning Kung Fu first. You can't reinvent Star Wars without knowing Star Wars first and he didn't -- for me -- make a compelling argument for why Luke didn't go and help his sister."

While Witwer made his feeling on The Last Jedi clear, he accepted that Episode VIII still has plenty of fans. "This is just my opinion, guys," he added. "There were a lot of things in The Last Jedi I found compelling in a Rian Johnson filmmaker point of view. They just didn't fit into Star Wars. I don't think he did his Star Wars homework. The themes, what it's about, what the characters are about. But as a standalone film, if I don't know what the Jedi are or who Luke is or what he represents, I think there's some compelling things in there. If that's meaningful to you, that's awesome."

More at: https://www.cbr.com/star-wars-last-jedi-rian-johnson-homework-sam-witwer/

Be what they grow beyond if old


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Context:
 
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Ryan.

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
12,885
It's ironic when he was probably the only one to work with the Story group and other writers and authors to help develop the era, unlike another ST director.

Sorry, as much I like Witwer I strongly disagree here.
 

Ambient

Member
Dec 23, 2017
7,087
Before people start flaming him from just reading the title of the thread he even states this is just his opinion...

That being said I agree.
 

Disclaimer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,531
Interesting way to frame the title by omitting his Star Wars work and the fact that he's a walking compendium of Star Wars knowledge...

I also imagine most people won't read the nuance of the actual quotes.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,374
This will be an interesting thread. I actually kind of agree with him, not the Johnson didn't do his homework, I think he understood Star Wars quite well, but I don't think his characterization or execution of that characterization more accurately was always to the best it could've been. I also understand his read though considering how immersed he is in Star Wars and how rabid he is about Star Wars lore himself.

It was still the best movie out of the sequel trilogy though, because it was trying something interesting with the characters. I do think the plot is kind of a meandering mishmash of ideas that don't really gel into the same cohesive story but the parts with Luke, Kylo, and Rey were all extremely interesting In concepts, if not in execution.
 

Vampirolol

Member
Dec 13, 2017
5,821
The only bad thing the sequel trilogy did is ruining Etcetera for the rest of time, condemning it to have countless of copypaste threads about circlejerking.
 

Deepwater

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,349
why is rian johnson being blamed for a plot narrative that JJ set up? RJ didn't put Luke on that planet
 

Aly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,148
Strange because I think he understood it better than most. So have to disagree with him on that.
 

fallengorn

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,097
New York City
I think he knew exactly what the themes are... but he also set out to subvert expectations, which was never going to fly for something like a main entry to Star Wars.
 

Xpike

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,676
only thing the last jedi did was poison any discussion of star wars for decades to come
 

Vectorman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,023
Riding the Chillwavves
Sam definitely walked himself into a trap right there. Listen, I get that there are supporters of TLJ and while I dislike the film, I still lay the blame on the sequel trilogy not being worked on as a whole instead of the piecemeal way they attempted to do. There's so much blame to go around before getting to TLJ and Rian.
 

Ambient

Member
Dec 23, 2017
7,087
why is rian johnson being blamed for a plot narrative that JJ set up? RJ didn't put Luke on that planet
I wouldn't say he's blaming anyone in his opinion. If you read and listen to his discussion he thinks on a grander scale The Last Jedi doesn't sit well with him in regards to the canon story of Star Wars. He praises Johnson for the film as a more stand alone story.
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Amen!

Awful SW movie. Sorry Rian, still love ya for Knives Out!
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,682
USA USA USA
do we need a thread when the janitor for the catering company that served on set gives his opinion of tlj?

it's been three years, who cares about what offhand comments anyone says about it now

these constant tlj threads are just people stirring pots and watching threads get tons of posts over absolutely nothing
 

TCi

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
661
Tbf none of the directors did their homework. The last trilogy have been a massive disappointment. It ruined the mystery and exploration of the Star Wars universe. If it wasn't for the massive brand and nostalgia, none of the movies would have been successful.

As much shit the prequels got, at least they captured the sense of Star Wars.

I am just glad that we have The Mandalorian. Or else I would have just given up Star Wars entirely.
 

Metallix87

User Requested Self-Ban
Banned
Nov 1, 2017
10,533
I remember watching the Last Jedi and thinking, "Whoever made this CLEARLY wasn't the same guy handling Force Awakens".

TLJ had some cool moments but ruined some characters at the same time
I think the issue is that, to me at least, it was clear that Rian didn't care for The Force Awakens, and had his own vision of what the sequels should have been.
 

Tunichtgut

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,294
Germany
I don't get why so many people have problem with Luke, cause he is the best thing in the trilogy. Seeing him kinda break after so many years, made him more human, more likeable, made me root for him more then ever before. And he also had an amazing ending. I just love it.
 

Deepwater

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,349
I wouldn't say he's blaming anyone in his opinion. If you read and listen to his discussion he thinks on a grander scale The Last Jedi doesn't sit well with him in regards to the canon story of Star Wars. He praises Johnson for the film as a more stand alone story.

but his point about RJ not coming up with a good excuse for Luke being a hermit is just silly when it's all but established by t JJ in TFA. It seems like his critique would be better directed to JJ for making Luke fuck off from the New Republic in the first place
 

Ryan.

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
12,885
Yeah 2 awful Star Wars video games and some half rate voice imitations on a cartoon.
While looking back it the games have not aged well but Witwer is considered to be Maul now to the point where he and Filoni were brought on to Solo to consult his brief cameo and was asked to voice him.

The man is talented and is a diehard Star Wars fan
 

JamRock7

Banned
Aug 19, 2019
2,125
FL
why is rian johnson being blamed for a plot narrative that JJ set up? RJ didn't put Luke on that planet
Let me answer your question w a question. Why didn't RJ keep the story and characters consistent from the movie that preceded it? He knew this was the 2nd act in a 3 act story but left it with nowhere to go and made almost everything setup in TFA pointless. The "slapstick humor" wasn't funny and was oddly placed in random scenes throughout the movie making the overall film inconsistent in its tone.
IMO TLJ excels at nothing but it's visuals (which the credit is mainly due to ILM and the cinematographer(s) and Disney's bottomless Wallet)
 

Deleted member 67920

alt account
Banned
May 1, 2020
624
I don't think there's anything wrong with his opinion.

TLJ is a divisive movie amongst fans. It happens.

I really didn't like TLJ but it's still a worthwhile film. Rian Johnson had something to say, and I appreciate that he tried to put his stamp on Star Wars. I'll take that over something like Rise of Skywalker any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
 
Oct 8, 2019
9,143
why is rian johnson being blamed for a plot narrative that JJ set up? RJ didn't put Luke on that planet

Exactly, what the hell was Rian Johnson supposed to do? Have the conversation go, "After I failed miserably I abandoned everything to become a hermit" "Leia's in danger" "Okay lets go my X-wing is right over there"

If you want to blame anyone for how Luke ended up in the Sequel Trilogy blame the guy who directed the first movie and not the guy who was tasked with trying to right JJ Abram's mess.

Luke and Rey had all the best scenes in The Last Jedi precisely because Rian Johnson seems to understand Star Wars while JJ Abrams only copied Lucas while showing no understanding on why say Revenge of the Sith's ending with Owens, Beru, and baby Luke looking at the Sunset works because it creates continuity with Luke looking at the sunset in a New Hope, and why everyone laughed at the ending of TROS where there is no real reason for the audience to feel anything because Rey was far closer to Leia.
 

Vectorman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,023
Riding the Chillwavves
Yeah 2 awful Star Wars video games and some half rate voice imitations on a cartoon.

giphy.gif


Why you gotta do that to the man???
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,438
I disagree. TLJ was a film that got it, the other two didn't move the story forward and were going through the motions.

We've also heard "That's not Luke" and loads of repeated discussions, but people aren't perfect, they age and they're often not as idealistic as they are in their youth. He saw the empire rise again, despite their victory and yet he still was a hero who saved the resistance at the end.
 
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