• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
Status
Not open for further replies.

thebishop

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
2,758
I was pretty shocked to hear this today on my commute. After a discussion of Shenmue 3 and the controversy around EGS, we get this @ 01:07:10:

there's a lot of weird racist undercurrent around china with the epic games store that is rough. Where people are like 'ehhhh i just don't like it! Because it's TENCENT, it's all Tencent money!". Like... please listen to yourselves.

I'm not going to link to it because I don't want to help their publicity, but it's episode #242.

I've spent my fair share of time arguing about this on Era and on Twitter, and I've NEVER seen this sentiment expressed. There's been plenty of talk about *Fortnite* money, but rarely have I seen Tencent mentioned at all, and never in the context of aversion to Chinese products. If I'm off base, or I've just missed it then please let me know and I'll calm down. I'm totally against anti-Chinese racism/xenophobia. Even at the level of global capitalist competition, I think the US embargo on Huawei products is completely cynical.

But I've already unsubscribed from several gaming podcasts because I feel like they defend the Epic store with disingenuous arguments, and don't respond to the actual complaints most people are saying. It feels like we're being sold something from people who often build their brand/credibility on being savvy people who see through corporate bullshit.

To be fair, this episode does talk about feature disparity, and the clusterf**k of stores/launchers PC gamers have to wade through. But they're ultimately dismissive of those complaints and even say if you write to respond on this topic, they'll just delete it because you should be happy with "how good you have it".

So yeah, this has already become something of a litmus test for me, and to see it escalated to the level that people annoyed by EGS are motivated by racism is really unbelievable.

Sorry for my rant. Have a nice day.
 

Tracker_TD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
244
I have actually seen this argument used in a Discord or two, so it's not totally out of the leftfield. I don't think pointing it out has to mean they're totally fine with EGS either, given you literally said they still point out the reasons people are annoyed about it.
 

TC McQueen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,592
Honestly, the only times I've seen China mentioned are usually in the context of concern about the Chinese government having indirect/direct influence on Epic/EGS and/or access to the personal data they're collecting, which is a totally legit concern to have.
 

Ababol

Member
Oct 25, 2017
334
I don't know about ResetEra specifically, but that whole narrative is extremely prevalent on every thread about the EGS on every other forum, as it is on Twitter.

Just go on Reddit and you'll see people talking about Chinese money and Chinese spies, which is kind of hilarious because Reddit itself is also partially owned by Tencent, like Epic.

So yeah, that criticism is spot on and your rant "because you haven't seen it on ResetEra" is idiotic.
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,528
I mean, I remember people making that Tencent argument on this very site.

It didn't lead the narrative because there's honestly several other more important issues with the EGS beyond what mega-conglomerate they're working with and getting additional funding from, but yeah, it's a thing.
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,319
You must not have been paying attention because Era in particular had lots of posters aggressively posting these sentiments
 

Rickenslacker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,415
I've spent my fair share of time arguing about this on Era and on Twitter, and I've NEVER seen this sentiment expressed. There's been plenty of talk about *Fortnite* money, but rarely have I seen Tencent mentioned at all, and never in the context of aversion to Chinese products. If I'm off base, or I've just missed it then please let me know and I'll calm down. I'm totally against anti-Chinese racism/xenophobia. Even at the level of global capitalist competition, I think the US embargo on Huawei products is completely cynical.

I don't know how you've missed it but there's definitely been an "I don't want to give money or have my data snooped on by China" sentiment with some wrt EGS.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,969
Yeah I've seen this. I saw some infographic someone made comparing Steam and EGS and one of the negatives listed for EGS was "ties to China."
 

Heckler456

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,256
Belgium
People who have an issue with "Tencent money" generally don't do it out of racist convictions, but rather because China is a totalitarian state, and the implication is that the Chinese government is somehow involved with Tencent proper.
 

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,627
I haven't been paying a great deal of attention, and I've seen the whole Tencent thing flagged multiple times.

Refusing to listen to podcasts because they disagree with you on this isn't a great look?
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,099
Don't they manufacture basically all the consoles in China?

I think this is BS. Vast majority of criticism I've seen has been focused on the shortcomings of the store and the negative inpact their strategy is having on gaming as a whole.

Frustrating to see the media just side with the large corporations instead of players.
 

Neutra

Member
Oct 27, 2017
988
NYC
that's what you get when you align yourself with the "gamers rise up" and "ethics in games journalism" crowd...
 

Doomguy Fieri

Member
Nov 3, 2017
5,271
OP you may want to spend some time researching EGS conspiracy Twitter, because some of these lunatics absolutely believe that there is a nefarious Chinese data mining hidden in the EGS client.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,772
It's fairly rare, but I have seen it. I hate EGS, but every time someone yells "TeNcEnT mOnEy!!!!1" my eyes just roll into the back of their head. Tim Sweeny is doing a good enough job ruining things on his own.
 

bluexy

Comics Enabler & Freelance Games Journalist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
14,520
I think it comes off completely disingenuous and beyond to bring up this topic, only to lead by saying, "I've never seen this before." I've personally brought up this topic on ResetEra. It's in virtually every threat about Epic Games Store. It's real and it's abhorrent.
 

Sir Hound

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,206
Please explain how objecting to the Chinese police state is racist.

Edit: as for on this site there's been loads of threads recently where the top few comments are, verbatim, "fuck China". And that isn't racist either.
 
Oct 25, 2017
22,378
The Tencent argument is pretty dumb cause half the games on the planet are somehow financed by Tencent.
There is enough wrong with the EGS without inventing spooky chinese spies.
And yes that argument has been used on Era as well

Please explain how objecting to the Chinese police state is racist.
Objecting to the Chinese police state by not using the Epic store? C'mon now.
 

ASaiyan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,228
You have honestly not been looking very hard OP. This kind of thinly-veiled Sinophobia pops up all the time in EGS threads, wedged in between legitimate grievances about the store. In fact, fellow Era members will often directly call it out and decry it, even as they are simultaneously tearing Epic to shreds.
 

Deleted member 1635

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,800
Is distrust of Chinese companies/government racism though?

No, and it's shitty for people and certain journalists to try to spin it this way.

If it were general suspicion of "Chinese people" then I would get it, but this is about very specific companies/organizations known for not being trustworthy with people's private data.

With that said, I believe Epic when they say they don't give any data to Tencent on their userbase. I refuse to use EGS for different reasons.
 

teague

Member
Dec 17, 2018
1,509
Reddit's been pretty bad about tencent recently, but sounds like you don't go on it, so keep on keepin' on. It got a lot worse when Tencent acquired a (not that big) stake in Reddit as well. This is all to say, there are definitely people out there spouting dog-whistle shit about Chinese companies, but thankfully/hopefully they stay off of here. it's happening here too but I've been ignoring EGS threads
Obviously there are reasons to be unhappy about EGS besides Tencent having a (not that big) stake, but whenever some opinion becomes Gamer Gospel (tm) you're gonna get some of the people who just want an excuse to spout whatever horrible shit they were thinking anyway.
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,582
I'm surprised at the people saying they've never seen this. It comes up in every EGS thread.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,099
Really seems like a lot of people are saying that it's racist to criticize a Chinese company, but it's not racist to criticize a company of any other nationality.
 

cowbanana

Member
Feb 2, 2018
13,719
a Socialist Utopia
The Chinese government gives rise to a lot of well grounded concern. Distrusting a government and its affiliates is not the same as racism. I think it's fairly easy to see that, especially when comments are taken in context.
 

Dwebble

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,627

Cactuar

Banned
Nov 30, 2018
5,878
I am Chinese so......Can I say I do feel that?

You can. It's particularly wierd when Tencent is brought up in relation to the Epic Games Store because they don't even own the company, it's an American company, so why bring up a shareholder? Granted a major shareholder, but we rarely see shareholders brought up in other discussions. The implication seems to be to me Tencent = bad.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,716
You haven't seen the famous comparison chart that people bring out that totally has this shit in it? Also why aren't you linking to the podcast?
 

morningbus

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,049
It's a thing and yeah, you should be aware of it, OP.

Having said that it's used just as much by people who are trying to deflect any criticism of The Epic Game Store, now. So the whole discussion is poisoned.
 

Joeyro

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,757
I do see the sentiment of the Epic Store being a Chinese spyware on Reddit and other social media. Just seems like a childish petty drivel.
 

Ababol

Member
Oct 25, 2017
334
Please explain how objecting to the Chinese police state is racist.

Edit: as for on this site there's been loads of threads recently where the top few comments are, verbatim, "fuck China". And that isn't racist either.

Please explain how is attacking a company because another Chinese company owns a minority stake on it "objecting to the Chinese police state"?
 
OP
OP
thebishop

thebishop

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
2,758
You have honestly not been looking very hard OP. This kind of thinly-veiled Sinophobia pops up all the time in EGS threads, wedged in between legitimate grievances about the store. In fact, fellow Era members will often directly call it out and decry it, even as they are simultaneously tearing Epic to shreds.

Interesting. It looks like there's a consensus that xenophobic sentiments HAVE been going around and I just missed it. I totally agree with the people saying that fear of "spying" directed in particular at Chinese products (when nobody spies more than US corporations/agencies) is fucked, is racist, and should be denounced.

So thanks for the responses yall.
 

Wintermute

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,051
this seems more like a way to pivot on shitting on EGS than anything else.

and yes there's racism associated with the discussion of tencent in the gaming community. there's been an upswell of anti-chinese sentiment in recent years. i really noticed it starting with pubg and people getting angry with griefing. certainly it's not unreasonable for people to not want to be griefed, but this soon collapsed into a huge amount of thinly veiled and coded language about china and chinese gamers. tbh that's been around for a long time with the casual comments people make about gold farming in MMOs.

so yeah sorry if it's too woke for some, but they are bang on the money.
 

Phokal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
453
WI
I've also seen the Tencent->China stuff from friends linking to popular Reddit threads in Gaming and such. Be glad you've avoided that discourse, but unsubscribing might lead to less general awareness of trends like this.
 

Meg Cherry

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,279
Seattle, WA
I don't know about ResetEra specifically, but that whole narrative is extremely prevalent on every thread about the EGS on every other forum, as it is on Twitter.

Just go on Reddit and you'll see people talking about Chinese money and Chinese spies, which is kind of hilarious because Reddit itself is also partially owned by Tencent, like Epic.

So yeah, that criticism is spot on and your rant "because you haven't seen it on ResetEra" is idiotic.
Yeah, the notion that EGS is a Chinese government front is an incredibly common assertion across just about every community vocally opposed to EGS. It's illogical, and definitely xenophobic - and gives people the falsely earned sense that they're making a brave political stance by opposing the storefront.

I think there's some reasonable skepticism in how the Chinese government operates with Chinese-owned businesses. The situation with Huawei justifies that skepticism. But the fact remains that these same people probably went to see any number of Hollywood movies that were cofunded by Tencent, bought countless items produced in China, and give ample data to social media firms with Chinese investors. So their opposition is clearly not actually about China, but rather China is a convenient scapegoat for a product that they don't want to use for more petty (though still valid) reasons.
 
Nov 14, 2017
4,928
People who have an issue with "Tencent money" generally don't do it out of racist convictions, but rather because China is a totalitarian state, and the implication is that the Chinese government is somehow involved with Tencent proper.
I mean, the idea that the Chinese government is using Chinese capital to somehow subvert western democracy is kind of a racist idea.
 

LavaBadger

Member
Nov 14, 2017
4,988
I've definitely heard this before OP. You may not agree with it, but putting your fingers in your ears and unsubscribing from their podcast doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
 

Deleted member 249

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,828
I've seen this argument made multiple times.
I am all for calling EGS out on their bullshit, but the weird racism against China with things like this are undeniable, and reflective of the great xenophobic scares against Japanese/Irish/Italians that the US has had in the past.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.